Weiser_Cain wrote...
That's up for you to decide, it makes sense to me.errant_knight wrote...
Weiser_Cain wrote...
Ashton Kutcher is a douchebag. Ashton Kutcher would do a good job playing Alistair in a DA movie. Thus Allistair is a ____?Gemaphrodite wrote...
So, although Alistair is many things, he is not a douchebag.
Do you completely lack the ability to make a coherent argument for your point of view?
Weiser_Cain wrote...
Oh now we love Aston Kutcher?
Weiser_Cain wrote...
Ashton Kutcher is a douchebag. Ashton Kutcher would do a good job playing Alistair in a DA movie. Thus Allistair is a ____?Gemaphrodite wrote...
So, although Alistair is many things, he is not a douchebag.
Weiser_Cain wrote...
Oh now we love Aston Kutcher?
Modifié par ejoslin, 15 juin 2010 - 04:30 .
Guest_Gemaphrodite_*
Asdara wrote...
errant_knight wrote...
Asdara wrote...
I'm just saying that, politically speaking, one Royal line is as good as another. There's no such thing as divinely appointed Kings the Maker smiles on for some mysterious reasons (since he's left us anyway). It's about getting someone, anyone, up there that will be followed by the nobles and not plunge the country back into barbarism. That was the point, and the duty, and all the practical reason behind it.
That's true in life, but not necessarily in a fantasy game/book/movie. And in this game, a Guardian of the ashes can live for thousands of years, the ashes can heal, the dead rise, and we can see the Black City. Real life arguments can't be taken as fact here.
Fair point. Of course, that means 'life' based arguments against the idea become equally suspect.
Like I said though, t'was just a thought. We all know what Alistair does / doesn't do in every permutation I assume so the whole thing is moot. Fun to think about, but ultimately moot.
I just think it is interesting that Alistair's honor isn't as ironclad as people tend to want to believe. He does, after all, abandon the Warden if they spare Loghain. He also, despite his promises, puts aside his relationship with a non-Human Warden to fulfill the obligations of a role he neither wanted nor made any formal commitment to (the coronation not having taken place yet) - and he shirks that role to die to the Archdemon if given the opportunity.
So Alistair doesn't always do what we think his duty and honor should have him do - or he arranges his priorities of what that duty and honor is in a particular way given the situation and mediated by what he wants and doesn't want if given a chance to do so unnoticed. Rather more complex than it seems at first glance.
I prefer to think of it as mockery.Gemaphrodite wrote...
What the hell? Ashton Kutcher is a terrible actor and should never get a job.
He's just trying to goad you all on and at the moment you're taking the bait. Ignore him. Get back to the Alistair luuuuurve.
Xandurpein wrote...
asaiasai wrote...
I am not going to win any friends with this reply but in a nut shell, women have no clue what they want, which is why it is thier perogative to change thier minds at a moments notice. The reason they all like Allistair is because he is something YOU as a flesh and blood male will never be, and that is what ever they want when they want it because as a fictional character he is infinatly more flexible in who he is because it is fantasy.
Perfect example is i work at a hospital so the primary sex of the work force is female. I have been here for almost 20 years and for the first 10 i could not get a date out of here. So i went and looked someplace else found a girl from outside the workplace, and got married. From the moment i slipped that 100 dollar piece of gold on my finger i was like Tom Jones at a Vegas show trying to work and having to duck slingshot panties from across the nurses stations. I would come home from work reach into my lab coat pocket and occasionaly there would be a name and a number on a slip of paper in there, and as i do have a sense of humor about it sometimes the names were not all female.
I am now getting a divorce, and the panties have stopped flying around, gone are the names on paper, so the only conclusion i can draw is that women what what they can not have more than anything else and since Allistair is fantasy there you have it.
Asai
If Morrigan's popularity is any indication, I'd say that men are very similar to women in that respect then.
Xandurpein wrote...
Sometimes people fall in love. This can happen very quickly. They see something in the other and fall for that, but maybe without knowing each other completely. They see some fragments of the other ones personality and fill in the blanks with their hopes and dreams and then they get disappointed, as they get to know each other better and discover that the truth was not what they imagined.
Other times, people can go beyond the "fall in love" stage, really get to know each other and truly love and care for each other, but still disappoint each other. Maybe things happens that forces an issue they could (and did) skirt around in the name of love, to the point where it can no longer be avoided.
It can be a career opportunity in another part of the country or it can be the fate of Loghain. It's tragic when it happens, but a couple only breaks up if neither of them is willing to give in for the sake of their relationship. You might feel that Alistair didn't love you enough to give in for your sake, but neither did you. It doesn't matter that you think your reasons are rational and his reasons are irrational, you didn't love him enough to have this moment he needed.
In my experience, if you think that love is not real love unless it's a total commitment where every other need is made inconsequential, then you are simply dooming yourself to an endless cycle of "falling in love" and getting disappointed. Because it's only in that fleeting moment of being "in love", when you don't really know the object of your desire, that love can be that intense.
Real love means knowing there are things about your partner that you find irritating and annoying, and maybe even totally irrational, but it's part of the package and you can't change that. Sharing your life with a person is a package deal, you don't get to pick and choose among his/her traits.
I'm not going to tell anyone whether they where only "in love" with Alistair, or if it was real love, but it broke apart anyway, because neither Ali nor the PC could give in on a crucial issue. Maybe it's a different story for different people.
When love is broken over something it's sad, but it doesn't mean that it was a lie.
End rant.
errant_knight wrote...
Asdara wrote...
errant_knight wrote...
Asdara wrote...
I'm just saying that, politically speaking, one Royal line is as good as another. There's no such thing as divinely appointed Kings the Maker smiles on for some mysterious reasons (since he's left us anyway). It's about getting someone, anyone, up there that will be followed by the nobles and not plunge the country back into barbarism. That was the point, and the duty, and all the practical reason behind it.
That's true in life, but not necessarily in a fantasy game/book/movie. And in this game, a Guardian of the ashes can live for thousands of years, the ashes can heal, the dead rise, and we can see the Black City. Real life arguments can't be taken as fact here.
Fair point. Of course, that means 'life' based arguments against the idea become equally suspect.
Like I said though, t'was just a thought. We all know what Alistair does / doesn't do in every permutation I assume so the whole thing is moot. Fun to think about, but ultimately moot.
I just think it is interesting that Alistair's honor isn't as ironclad as people tend to want to believe. He does, after all, abandon the Warden if they spare Loghain. He also, despite his promises, puts aside his relationship with a non-Human Warden to fulfill the obligations of a role he neither wanted nor made any formal commitment to (the coronation not having taken place yet) - and he shirks that role to die to the Archdemon if given the opportunity.
So Alistair doesn't always do what we think his duty and honor should have him do - or he arranges his priorities of what that duty and honor is in a particular way given the situation and mediated by what he wants and doesn't want if given a chance to do so unnoticed. Rather more complex than it seems at first glance.
You raise fair points, as well. It is all very interesting, and is indeed more complex than it seems. I tend to put the leaving thing down to everyone having a line they can't cross, no matter how much a refusal to do so might get in their way, or even harm them. At the same time, aren't all of our choices and priorities based on what we can and can't accept?
Asdara wrote...
errant_knight wrote...
Asdara wrote...
errant_knight wrote...
Asdara wrote...
I'm just saying that, politically speaking, one Royal line is as good as another. There's no such thing as divinely appointed Kings the Maker smiles on for some mysterious reasons (since he's left us anyway). It's about getting someone, anyone, up there that will be followed by the nobles and not plunge the country back into barbarism. That was the point, and the duty, and all the practical reason behind it.
That's true in life, but not necessarily in a fantasy game/book/movie. And in this game, a Guardian of the ashes can live for thousands of years, the ashes can heal, the dead rise, and we can see the Black City. Real life arguments can't be taken as fact here.
Fair point. Of course, that means 'life' based arguments against the idea become equally suspect.
Like I said though, t'was just a thought. We all know what Alistair does / doesn't do in every permutation I assume so the whole thing is moot. Fun to think about, but ultimately moot.
I just think it is interesting that Alistair's honor isn't as ironclad as people tend to want to believe. He does, after all, abandon the Warden if they spare Loghain. He also, despite his promises, puts aside his relationship with a non-Human Warden to fulfill the obligations of a role he neither wanted nor made any formal commitment to (the coronation not having taken place yet) - and he shirks that role to die to the Archdemon if given the opportunity.
So Alistair doesn't always do what we think his duty and honor should have him do - or he arranges his priorities of what that duty and honor is in a particular way given the situation and mediated by what he wants and doesn't want if given a chance to do so unnoticed. Rather more complex than it seems at first glance.
You raise fair points, as well. It is all very interesting, and is indeed more complex than it seems. I tend to put the leaving thing down to everyone having a line they can't cross, no matter how much a refusal to do so might get in their way, or even harm them. At the same time, aren't all of our choices and priorities based on what we can and can't accept?
I completely agree. Even with the leaving part - which serves as at an indicator that there are things he won't do for duty and honor, and leaves us to speculate where that line is exactly (is it right AT that point, far over into the "no" territory, etc) and how it may move as he matures. I say matures because I think even ardent supporters of Alistair will acknowledge that there is always room for a person to grow and to change as life continues. Some day he may wake up and say "I really don't think this is working anymore." Whatever 'it' may be.
Xandurpein wrote...
SOLID_EVEREST wrote...
I would rather ask Solid Snake for help with women, lol.
Alistair has no real manly qualities, and his relationship with a male warden is too freaking wierd. He got lucky he didn't get the sword in the landsmeet... I would think chicks would find that bad**** Loghain way more awesome than that wimp Alistair.
I don't want to repeat myself, but please read my post on page 6 of this thread for an explanation of the errors in your assumptions. Or read KoP's excellent post above.
The dialogue option should be: Being King is not a punishment. It is part of the post-Landsmeet talk. If you pick the wrong option being mistress is impossible. Are you sure you didn't get this option?Zy-El wrote...
Just recently installed Qwinn's Fixpatch version 2.0 and it changed some of Alistair's dialogue. My Dalish Mage had Alistair in Love and made an agreement to hand over the reigns of Ferelden to Anora.
But after defeating Loghain, Alistair automatically took the crown for himself and dumped my PC like an old sack. Yeah, yeah, I can't have your child because of the taint. But that's no reason we can't even "do it on the side". That option is not even available. Every time I try to talk to him, he turns me away saying it's too painful to even talk about it! I'm tempted to feed him to the AD!!
I'm not familiar with the patch you're talking about. However, if Alistair duels Loghain, he'll take the throne and the PC gets no say in the matter unless you've arranged an Anora marriage prior or the PC is a human noble with a chance at consort.Zy-El wrote...
Just recently installed Qwinn's Fixpatch version 2.0 and it changed some of Alistair's dialogue. My Dalish Mage had Alistair in Love and made an agreement to hand over the reigns of Ferelden to Anora.
But after defeating Loghain, Alistair automatically took the crown for himself and dumped my PC like an old sack. Yeah, yeah, I can't have your child because of the taint. But that's no reason we can't even "do it on the side". That option is not even available. Every time I try to talk to him, he turns me away saying it's too painful to even talk about it! I'm tempted to feed him to the AD!!
SOLID_EVEREST wrote...
Xandurpein wrote...
SOLID_EVEREST wrote...
I would rather ask Solid Snake for help with women, lol.
Alistair has no real manly qualities, and his relationship with a male warden is too freaking wierd. He got lucky he didn't get the sword in the landsmeet... I would think chicks would find that bad**** Loghain way more awesome than that wimp Alistair.
I don't want to repeat myself, but please read my post on page 6 of this thread for an explanation of the errors in your assumptions. Or read KoP's excellent post above.
I stand by my reasoning that Alistair is a whimp. If he was a real man, he would never have been such a baby in the landsmeet. A grown **** man wouldn't abandon everything he stands for just to get his way. Loghain is more of a man than Alistair could ever be. Alistair has no sense of commitment.
Weiser_Cain wrote...
Oh now we love Aston Kutcher?
To build up on this, there's this saying: "The only common link in all your failed relationships is you."Hanz54321 wrote...
If what you've "seen way to often" is douchebags getting the girl then either a) your life experience is limited to a very limited social pocket that you should try to get out of oryou are delusional and making excuses for your own failures with women.
Your experiences aren't the only ones in the world. Other things happen outside the sphere of "you". This is why I replied to your first troll and this is why several people piled on after. Because you don't understand this.
I can confirm that - I just did it last night and I have Qwinn 2.0 installed. Hardened Alistair and Anora were to marry but Alistair dueled Loghain so Anora refused his hand. Then back at Eamon's estate, Alistair mentioned breaking up with my warden (dwarf noble) because it's his duty to produce an heir, but I was able to talk him out of it.Addai67 wrote...
I'm not familiar with the patch you're talking about. However, if Alistair duels Loghain, he'll take the throne and the PC gets no say in the matter unless you've arranged an Anora marriage prior or the PC is a human noble with a chance at consort.Zy-El wrote...
Just recently installed Qwinn's Fixpatch version 2.0 and it changed some of Alistair's dialogue. My Dalish Mage had Alistair in Love and made an agreement to hand over the reigns of Ferelden to Anora.
But after defeating Loghain, Alistair automatically took the crown for himself and dumped my PC like an old sack. Yeah, yeah, I can't have your child because of the taint. But that's no reason we can't even "do it on the side". That option is not even available. Every time I try to talk to him, he turns me away saying it's too painful to even talk about it! I'm tempted to feed him to the AD!!
If Alistair is unhardened and made king, the PC is going to get dumped after the Landsmeet. If he's hardened, you have to choose certain dialogue options to convince him to keep you on. Once he's convinced, he's quite determined about it.
Modifié par DWSmiley, 15 juin 2010 - 09:32 .
Modifié par ejoslin, 15 juin 2010 - 09:58 .
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