605 réponses à ce sujet

[2pac Shakur]

because Alistair is everything an unsatisfied wife would want from a man, in contrast to their overweight, drunk, balding, disgusting husbands

[AlexRD]

Hehe, i'm lucky. Im exactly like alistair, except for the hair of course. if women love him, then YE score baby

[Eudaemonium]

David Gaider wrote...

Loria232 wrote...
 well i don't understand  obsession with Morrigan , i mean really ,such a b*****

Oh, that's easier to explain than you'd think.

It's not the looks so much, or even the voice (though both of those things do help, giving her an exotic flavor that many men like a lot). From what I've gathered, the reason many male players fall hard for Morrigan is because she has that hard, hard shell. She pushes the player away and wants nothing to do with love, but when that shell starts to crack he starts to think that maybe he can reach her. Maybe he can save her, bring out that vulnerable side she only rarely shows and which she would never even admit to.

There are certain fantasies that romances cater to, and Morrigan has hers just as Alistair does. It's never going to appeal to everyone, but it certainly doesn't happen by accident.

Morrigan romance spoilers ahead - you have been warned:

Hmmm. I guess it's a type that doesn't really appeal to me much, though I do get the market. A friend of mine fell hard for Morrigan, and was uttery devestated when she left him. For me, one of her most redeeming qualities is that she always leaves. That no matter how much you pierce through her shell (or think you pierce it, more to the point), she always has something that she has to do, which means more to her than you do or perhaps ever will, and that you cannot be a part of - no matter how much you might wish to. There is a certain strength in her there that I can really respect, at least as I see it.

[Master Shiori]

You do pierce through her shell and even have her experience the very emotion she considers to be a weakness. It's really touching to see her despise herself for falling in love with the Warden and yet being unable/uinwilling to end it, even though she knows it'll end badly for both of you.



I think this is why people find the idea of romancing Morrigan so appealing. It's a constant uphill battle where you can never be ceirtain how things will play out, but when you do get past her hard shell you discover a very vulnerable and almost innocent person beneath it.



And the Warden does mean a lot to her. She even goes so far as to call him "my love", which, for Morrigan, is almost an unthinkable thing to do.

[Brockololly]

David Gaider wrote...

It's not the looks so much, or even the voice (though both of those things do help, giving her an exotic flavor that many men like a lot). From what I've gathered, the reason many male players fall hard for Morrigan is because she has that hard, hard shell. She pushes the player away and wants nothing to do with love, but when that shell starts to crack he starts to think that maybe he can reach her. Maybe he can save her, bring out that vulnerable side she only rarely shows and which she would never even admit to.

There are certain fantasies that romances cater to, and Morrigan has hers just as Alistair does. It's never going to appeal to everyone, but it certainly doesn't happen by accident.

Yeah, I'd say thats about it. Although Claudia Black does one hell of a job IMO. But sure, its the whole defrosting the ice queen, playing hard to get, peeling back the layers of the onion type deal with Morrigan. Its natural for people to like that as people like seeing character development and to see characters grow and change based on their experiences within the game.

And with Morrigan, at least for me, I think another part of her being an interesting character is her mysterious nature within the plot of the game. The same is true with Alistair to a degree, as he reveals he is Maric's little bastard, and with Morrigan you go through most of the game knowing she is up to something but you never know exactly what she is up to until the end. And even though she tells you things won't end well, I think the player romancing Morrigan is kind of hoping that you'll be able to capitalize on seeing those chinks in her armor and maybe be able to break through and get some sort of "reward" for that in the end. Yet her ending is the same for anyone, no matter how you cut it (in broad, non-spoilerific terms)

Eudaemonium wrote...
Morrigan romance spoilers ahead - you have been warned:
For me, one of her most redeeming qualities is that she always leaves. That no matter how much you pierce through her shell (or think you pierce it, more to the point), she always has something that she has to do, which means more to her than you do or perhaps ever will, and that you cannot be a part of - no matter how much you might wish to. There is a certain strength in her there that I can really respect, at least as I see it.

I'd agree that one of the cool things with Morrigan is how unlike most characters she isn't totally shaped by the PC (like hardening Leliana or Alistair). I'd never want to have Morrigan turn into little Miss Sunshine and Rainbows but at the same time the frustrating thing isn't so much that she leaves, but how the DR scene  plays out for the romancing Warden is really almost the same as it is even if you treated her like poo the whole game. So as a player its like all of the effort in romancing Morrigan and getting through to her other side is for naught, as she pretty much treats the romancing Warden exactly the same as any other Warden. That and the fact that role playing wise you can't even ask logical questions like why you can't come with her and that sort of thing, just makes the DR scene quite frustrating, IMO.

And thats fine that she has got bigger plans and all, but as of now, its just maddening to not know if the romancing Warden will ever get resolution to Morrigan's romance in some meaningful way. And hopefully any resolution does not involve falling rocks or wielding of Plot Hammers of Doom.....

[errant_knight]

It shouldn't be that hard to understand why many women like Alistair. He's a really nice guy, who's good looking, funny, romantic, and cares what she (the PC) thinks--and awesome in a fight. All that is good. Many, if not most, women like to feel needed on some level. There's that, too. Another thing about the Alistair romance, is that you can have it both ways, depending on what you like, make him a stronger person who'll stand up for himself, or keep him a follower. Me, I like to see him realize his potential. In either case, he has lines that he won't cross, and that's appealing, too. Personally, I like it that he'll stand his ground, even to his own detriment. His sense of honor and duty is one of the best things about him. He's just a thoroughly decent guy.

He's not  weak or stupid, as some make him out to be either. He says that one of the things he liked about the Chantry was the education, hardly the hallmark of a stupid person. He will also stand up to the PC about decisions more than any of the other companions. Game mechanics prevent that from having real implications, for the most part, but it's still part of his character.

Modifié par errant_knight, 09 juin 2010 - 06:32 .

[Maria13]

2pac Shakur wrote...

because Alistair is everything an unsatisfied wife would want from a man, in contrast to their overweight, drunk, balding, disgusting husbands

Thanks for patronizing us.

[errant_knight]

Maria13 wrote...

2pac Shakur wrote...

because Alistair is everything an unsatisfied wife would want from a man, in contrast to their overweight, drunk, balding, disgusting husbands

Thanks for patronizing us.

To be fair, there are lots of other posts here that are every bit and ignorant and patronizing as that one--like the bit about women wanting stupid little boys they can mother and boss around. Ick.

[Acirederf]

Eudaemonium wrote...
Heh, well Zevran is an easy guy to lust after. See, the problem with taking Zev home to meet your parents is that no matter how happy you were you'd spend the next 20 years trying to convince them he was actually a nice guy. The fact he jokingly hit on your dad probably didn't help matters.

Hahaha. The scary thing is my Dad would probably flirt back...

[the_one_54321]

errant_knight wrote...
He's not  weak or stupid, as some make him out to be either.

Bull hockey! [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

I can only think of two instances where he doesn't fall all over himself to priase your decisions, and both of those instances were emotional and unwise on his part. On top of which, being the senior warden he imediately defers leadership to you when there is no one, specifically due to his own self perception of lacking leadership abilities. And he only develops any potential at all when you push him to do so. He's helpless without you.

Considering that this is a medievil styled game, him praising the chantry for it's education is more or being
thankful that he was taught to read. This isn't to try and make him look dumber, but it's a matter of the kind of education you can find in such a place. They weren't teaching him philosophy or tactics. They were indocrinating him and giving him basic academic instruction. That's the only thing that would make sense.

The guy is a dolt. Sure, he's a really likable dolt, but recognize flaws where they exist.

Similarly Morrigan, directly in spite of her attempts to sound intelligent and contemptuous, is also a complete idiot. She's like a character portrait for Chaotic Stupid.

Modifié par the_one_54321, 09 juin 2010 - 07:10 .

[errant_knight]

the_one_54321 wrote...

errant_knight wrote...
He's not  weak or stupid, as some make him out to be either.

Bull hockey! [smilie]../../../images/forum/emoticons/smile.png[/smilie]

I can only think of two instances where he doesn't fall all over himself to priase your decisions, and both of those instances were emotional and unwise on his part. On top of which, being the senior warden he imediately defers leadership to you when there is no one, specifically due to his own self perception of lacking leadership abilities. And he only develops any potential at all when you push him to do so. He's helpless without you.

Considering that this is a medievil styled game, him praising the chantry for it's education is more or being
thankful that he was taught to read. This isn't to try and make him look dumber, but it's a matter of the kind of education you can find in such a place. They weren't teaching him philosophy or tactics. They were indocrinating him and giving him basic academic instruction. That's the only thing that would make sense.

The guy is a dolt. Sure, he's a really likable dolt, but recognize flaws where they exist.

Similarly Morrigan, directly in spite of her attempts to sound intelligent and contemptuous, is also a complete idiot. She's like a character portrait for Chaotic Stupid.

Well, obviously I disagree with you entirely, but there's already a tread for folks to vent their dislike. This one is supposed to be about why women like him, not why you think he's stupid.

[the_one_54321]

That's true, but if you're going to list "smart" as one of his qualities, I'm going to have to take exception to it. Alistair is capable of being a lot of different things throughout the game, but smart is absolutely not one of them. It seems altogether off to me that one of his likable qualities would be a quality he really doesn't have.

[errant_knight]

the_one_54321 wrote...

That's true, but if you're going to list "smart" as one of his qualities, I'm going to have to take exception to it. Alistair is capable of being a lot of different things throughout the game, but smart is absolutely not one of them. It seems altogether off to me that one of his likable qualities would be a quality he really doesn't have.

Okay, your right to take exception, I suppose--off topic, but your right. I won't be drawn into an off topic debate, though, however much I might disagree, so you'll have to talk about it with yourself. Or take it to the correct thread where other like minded individuals are sure to agree.

Modifié par errant_knight, 09 juin 2010 - 07:35 .

[the_one_54321]

Well let me put it this way:



You find his intelligence attractive? If so, how so? Because I'm not seeing the same thing you are.

[frostajulie]

I can't explain it I like AL but Zev is far more mature and emotionally stable even if he is an assassin. I like him better. Ali is a 16 yr olds 1st love and his romance has all the depth of such a love Zev on the other hand is the man to end up with if you want a love built on more than lovesick smiles Zev also loves he warden no matter what Ali on the other hand is an in the closet bigot. I love him but he won't stand by you unless you are a human noble. Zev on the other hand would storm the gates of the dark city itself to be bby your side even if you were just friends. That's commitment and devotion. He's the guy I like to obsess over and it doesn't hurt that he knows his way around in the bedroom.

[errant_knight]

Heh, you're really trying--I like that. Okay, I'll risk a marginal foray into this, but if it goes awry, I'm bailing. I wasn't saying that he's a brilliant thinker there, just that he's by no means stupid, so that shouldn't be used as an argument against him, as sometimes happens. We know that he enjoyed his education, so he had no trouble with reading or study. The process of learning wasn't a painful challenge. He's not unobservant, picking up on the dubious nature of Flemeth's intentions immediately. He's quick witted and funny, very attractive qualities rarely seen in those who are unintelligent. The fact that he isn't stupid allows many of his likable qualities to exist.

[errant_knight]

frostajulie wrote...

I can't explain it I like AL but Zev is far more mature and emotionally stable even if he is an assassin. I like him better. Ali is a 16 yr olds 1st love and his romance has all the depth of such a love Zev on the other hand is the man to end up with if you want a love built on more than lovesick smiles Zev also loves he warden no matter what Ali on the other hand is an in the closet bigot. I love him but he won't stand by you unless you are a human noble. Zev on the other hand would storm the gates of the dark city itself to be bby your side even if you were just friends. That's commitment and devotion. He's the guy I like to obsess over and it doesn't hurt that he knows his way around in the bedroom.

You know that didn't address the question at all, right? I's most unfortunate that fans of each seem to be unable to make their points without dissing the other or going into unrelated comparisons. Both have their fans who have their reasons. Do we really have to spit in each others soup?

[the_one_54321]

Perhaps we're defining "stupid" in different ways, because I don't really disagree with you on any of that. He does have something of a simple wit and cunning going on there. But I liken it to a kind of animal wisdom. It is simple, the kind of basic smarts that helps a person to keep well fed while on the streets. And being simple is is still very much what I would term as "a dolt."



One thing I like about him in this, however, is that he full ready to admit it. He doesn't try to lead or make decisions. He knows you're better for that job and doesn't hesitate to let you do it.

[Asdara]

Alistair has that vulnerability about him that leaves a gap in his psyche that women tend to want to fill with their love. The wounded man who would be perfect with just a little work and effort is a huge draw for most women, particularly women who also want to go adventuring to save the world helping every idiot villager they meet along the way because it's the "right" thing to do. Kinda makes it a no-brainer to fall for Alistair. He also opens up to you with minimal effort and exposes these things fairly early on, endearing the player at an early stage with the added assistance of being the only other person in your band that is in a strikingly similar position as your character - being one of the two remaining Grey Wardens who's been with you since the beginning.

Zevran has an entirely different appeal. He's also wounded, but he's got that hidden wound that he overcompensates for with bravado and flirtation and getting through that thick crust is something that is time consuming - and if you don't talk to him enough in camp or open him up with gifts - very easy to fail at doing the way the conversation trees are structured. He comes in later, he comes in attempting to kill you - it makes it more difficult to warm to him, but no less worthwhile.

They both have a set of appeals that, if one doesn't work for you, the other will - and lacking that there's always the beautiful and friendly Leliana who is just so pure sugar cane sometimes she will crack your teeth and so devoted that you want to repay her with the same.

I don't think the relative intelligence issue has very much to do with it - at least not for me.  All of the npcs can act dumb as a box of rocks sometimes, or make you feel the same way (Morrigan explaining to a mage what an apostate is springs to mind due to recent play for me).  

Modifié par Asdara, 09 juin 2010 - 08:14 .

[errant_knight]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Perhaps we're defining "stupid" in different ways, because I don't really disagree with you on any of that. He does have something of a simple wit and cunning going on there. But I liken it to a kind of animal wisdom. It is simple, the kind of basic smarts that helps a person to keep well fed while on the streets. And being simple is is still very much what I would term as "a dolt."

One thing I like about him in this, however, is that he full ready to admit it. He doesn't try to lead or make decisions. He knows you're better for that job and doesn't hesitate to let you do it.

As I said, we simply disagree, but at least we tried,huh?

[KnightofPhoenix]

frostajulie wrote...

I can't explain it I like AL but Zev is far more mature and emotionally stable even if he is an assassin.

More mature? Probably. It's clear Zev had a very hard life and he managed to live through it.

Emotionally stable? I personally don't think so. When you have someone who is throwing himself at you so he can get himself killed, I doubt that's emotional stablility. He is very good at faking emotional stablility, but I don't think that he is so. I could be interpretting the character differently though.

Alistair is far more emotionally stable, even if he is emotionally vulnerable and needy which I don't think anyone denies, including himself. But I do not see him as emotionally unstable.

Not saying Alistair is better than Zevran. I think Zevran is a more interesting character personally. But I would not sya that Zevran has emotional stability while Alistair doesn't.

Modifié par KnightofPhoenix, 09 juin 2010 - 08:15 .

[the_one_54321]

Well, I don't really see how we're disagreeing now, but ok.

[Skadi_the_Evil_Elf]

Alistair is just more emotional, period. He is head over heart, all the way. Reason and rationality do not figure much into his descision making, which, I find interesting and refreshing from a male lead.



Some men think being emotional means weak and whiny, because supposedly, " real men" do not have or display feelings.



It's one of the many reasons I like Alistair. He is very much my opposite on so many fronts, and that makes him especially irresistable to me.

[errant_knight]

the_one_54321 wrote...

Well, I don't really see how we're disagreeing now, but ok.

Well, I don't see him as incapable/doltish and you do. If we go further down this road, we really risk pulling the tread entirely off topic, so I'm bowing out.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Alistair is just more emotional, period. He is head over heart, all the way. Reason and rationality do not figure much into his descision making, which, I find interesting and refreshing from a male lead.

And I find it irritating. But tastes, all tastes