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[SRWill64]

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

SRWill64 wrote...

KnightofPhoenix wrote...

SRWill64 wrote...
I may be repeating what someone else has said already because I haven't read any other post except the snide one by KnightofPhoenix...but I can see what side takes by his siggy...

Meaning?

I'm the only male resident in the Alistair gush thread (for some reason), I think I deserve better than this

Then why the H&LL do you have the archenemy Loghain as a siggy?!?!?!?

Because Loghain is my second favorite character. And no, it's Morrigan that occupies first.
And I had Alistair executed in my canon playthrough.

That doesn't mean I am not charming

In MY book it means JUST that! I made Alistair King and let him behead Loghain!!!

I get it...you like to side with the evil. If you had the option in Origins, you probably would have played a DARKSPAWN!

NO....EVIL IS NOT CHARMING!!!!!!

[Herr Uhl]

@SRWill64: Good for you.

[KnightofPhoenix]

Herr Uhl wrote...

@SRWill64: Good for you.

And evil for me

[adneate]

Loghain is evil? He might be very mistaken about things but he's not running around Denerim clubbing babies and eating people's faces.

[SRWill64]

errant_knight wrote...

Axekix wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Herr Uhl wrote...

Skadi_the_Evil_Elf wrote...

Yes, tastes indeed. Plus, generally, Alpha males tend to hold the more sensitive, emotional, and passive males with a certain contempt. It's one of those natural things.  Humans are pack animals, in general, and Alistair, personalitywise, is an omega, or close to it.

Omega male, that is a new concept to me. I have learned something new today at least.

Well, if wolf packs have Alpha, beta, and omega ranked wolves, and humans often use the term Alpha male for a dominant head male, I don't see why lower ranking people can't carry the same archetypes.

You know, I think I like that classification.  Alistair, the omega male.  It has a nice ring to it

Doesn't work for me. He feels too free to call you on things, and can develop too intense a hatred for your actions. If he was really omega, he'd be more accepting.

I give up on trying to keep this thread on track, and since the last thing I'm interested in participating in is another 'why does Alistair suck/not suck' thread, I shall call it quits.

I agree, Errant_Knight....
And to ALL YOU PEOPLE WHO LIKE TO classIFY ALISTAIR AS AN ANIMAL...HE IS NEITHER ALPHA, BETA OR OMEGA...HE IS IN A class OF HIS OWN!!!!!!!!

Modifié par SRWill64, 09 juin 2010 - 11:16 .

[Kryyptehk]

@SRWill64: You are very enthusiastic about Alistair, aren't you? You should check out the Alistair fan thread.

[ejoslin]

Not all females are obsessed with Alistair. I am not. Both Zevran and Leliana have their share of female fans. That said, I understand that attraction even though I don't share it. A good looking, ripped man who says nice things and means them. Plus he has a sexy sexy voice. Then he courts the warden, and it's straight out of a romance novel. Add to it that he's a tank (very very masculine) and able to kick ass? Yeh. Very understandable.

Still, this woman prefers Zevran.

Edit: I left out the fact that Alistair is sensitive and very much in touch with his emotions, though he very much lives in the moment.  But that's another thread.

Modifié par ejoslin, 09 juin 2010 - 11:21 .

[Addai]

frostajulie wrote...

I can't explain it I like AL but Zev is far more mature and emotionally stable even if he is an assassin. I like him better. Ali is a 16 yr olds 1st love and his romance has all the depth of such a love Zev on the other hand is the man to end up with if you want a love built on more than lovesick smiles

I couldn't let this go.  I love the Zevran romance, too, and I agree that the Alistair romance is a "first romance."  That much is obvious.  I do very strenuously disagree that that makes it shallow, immature, or not lasting.  Perhaps I'm biased because I know people from monastic settings, and their celibacy does not equal immaturity.  On the contrary, they can develop an even greater respect for the opposite sex than most young men because they value self-control and do not look at women only as sexual objects.

I also know people who married their high school sweethearts, and far from their relationships being shallow or unenduring, it is like no other person in the world exists in that way for them.  For one couple I know, there is a quality to their marriage that many couples would envy.  It's hard to describe, but it almost is like they were made for each other.  They work together, even, and yet are best friends.  They're the ones I think of when I picture my Alistair-romanced PCs years down the road.

[GavrielKay]

Other threads have had a bit more negativity to the topic than this one, but I did find it funny that some men seemed to think women were stupid/crazy/misguided to fall for Alistair. Some women like men who are tough, strong, and smart - but it can go too far into cold, overbearing and condescending. Alistair's character is easy for me to like because he doesn't cross that line.



I like a man who shows his feelings, especially the ones he has for me. I like a bit of emotion, wit, and romance mixed in with my tough guy. I think Alistair was written to appeal to a certain spectrum of women (and men) and perhaps we're the only ones who will ever really understand why it works

[Barbarossa2010]

I'm a straight male, but I completely get the Alistair thing. Many have given the specifics above (from emotional, to romantic, to sensitive, to handsome, to kick ass fighter) but the bottom line is that he is the prototypical knight in shining armor for the ladies. Yes, he's flawed and imperfect, but only so much so as to humanize him and make him that much more appealling for females.



I don't understand why that needs explaining, but there it is from my viewpoint. I only wish male players had had his female counterpart as a possible LI. We get grievously damaged or a swamp witch with unbelievably thick plot armor.

[Kanner]

If nothing else, the 'Female Romance' option in most games varies from non-existant to pretty lame.



Alistair isn't half bad compared to Anomen (Baldur's Gate 2), say. He's amusing and totally non-threatening, sure. But I'm getting a vibe that's more along the lines of many of the GUYS in this thread are not 'attracted' to Alistair, rather than there being something wrong with the character. =)

[Kanner]

David Gaider wrote...

Oh, that's easier to explain than you'd think.

It's not the looks so much, or even the voice (though both of those things do help, giving her an exotic flavor that many men like a lot). From what I've gathered, the reason many male players fall hard for Morrigan is because she has that hard, hard shell. She pushes the player away and wants nothing to do with love, but when that shell starts to crack he starts to think that maybe he can reach her. Maybe he can save her, bring out that vulnerable side she only rarely shows and which she would never even admit to.

There are certain fantasies that romances cater to, and Morrigan has hers just as Alistair does. It's never going to appeal to everyone, but it certainly doesn't happen by accident.

=/.

No.  You just described Ashley Williams from Mass Effect.  Not Morrigan.

I liked her because she was an individualist badass and she didn't take an entire playthrough to 'romance'.  Her 'vulnerable side' only seemed to show off the awesomeness of the rest of her personality as a contrast. 

It's not the desire to pierce her shell you fall for - it's the shell.  She's ruthless and powerful and has her own (perhaps very dark) goals which hint at a wider scope available for what is really just a 'save the kingdom from the Orcs + Dragon' game.  To her, you are interesting, and attractive, and useful, but you are never going to end up being her whole world, and that is an intriguing dynamic I haven't really seen in this kind of game before.

Also, this might just be the first character ever who's main side quest is "Hey, I need you to go kill my mother."  THAT... was amusing, to say the least. =)

Basicially the best 'dark' Bioware character since HK-47.

[ejoslin]

SamAnthem wrote...

He becomes king!(My human noble wants to be queen!) Plus look at the alternitive...a **** of an elf who wont even tell you he loves you...The choice was easy for me. Plus he amuses me.

Ah, the Zevran romance is good, entertaining, and ends up in ways you'd never expect. Now he never says the words unless you break up with him, but he does make it very clear that he does love the warden.  You may not like the other romance choice, but the romance itself is actually really good.  Besides, who else can you ask, "is that a proposal?"

My HNF always becomes queen as well -- and usually Alistair isn't hostile when it happens!  But becoming queen, if that's what you want, no romance required!

Modifié par ejoslin, 10 juin 2010 - 03:24 .

[Creature 1]

SamAnthem wrote...

He becomes king!

Definitely a great reason to romance anyone, that or having oodles of money.  (What was that word you called Zevran?)

(My human noble wants to be queen!)

Well good thing she's a human noble, then, or else Alistair would have his little story-book romance knowing all along you could never be queen and then publicly dump you. 

Plus look at the alternitive...a **** of an elf who wont even tell you he loves you...The choice was easy for me.

High school jock vs. verbally reticent but wholly dedicated man--yeah, that choice is easy for me too.  

Plus he amuses me.

Well, yes, Alistair does amuse everyone. 

[Xandurpein]

LadyDamodred wrote...

As for when I'm playing my characters, there are a number of things that are appealing about him.  He's funny, snarky, charming and witty.  Whether I'm playing as a lover or friend, he is appealing on all of those levels.  In a relationship with him, he's sweet, awkward and, if you let him take the lead, willing to go after what he wants.  I like that aspect of his personality: that he's fairly laid-back, until he finds something he really wants, and then he's willing to take risks on it.  I know other LIs so that as well, but none of them just kiss my PC without waiting for an okay.

I also love the fact that, like all the LI's, he is flawed.  Perfect people are not interesting, and my two favorite characters (Alistair and Zevran) are simultaneously the most awesome and most flawed.  It's great as a player to see that, and it keeps me engaged throughout mulitple play throughs.

That being said, Alistair can also be incredibly infuriating, and I think at some point everyone has thrown up their hands and yelled at their screens "Goddamnit, Alistair!"  And for some reason, Alistair fangirls love him even more for that. Wander over the gush thread and observe the disturbing high amount of love given to Angry Alistair.  We are bad, bad people, and enjoy tormenting him because he is so hot when he is angry.

I think your post explains very well why women love Alistair, but so many male players misunderstand him and call him a whimp. The classic Alpha male, that men tend to equate with being "manly" is the top dog. The one who dominates those around him. Men are brought up to respect the pecking order and respect the Alpha male. Alistair has no pretentions on being an Alpha male, so by default many men thinks he is "whimpy".

Women, in my experience, tend to be far less impressed by Alpha males, than men. If some women like Alpha Males it's probably more due to the "bragging rights" for catching him, than for how they try to act within the relationship. I think women can feel it's hot when a man stands up for himself and refuse to be pushed around, but that does NOT equate to them liking him trying to push her around.

Men are so much more accustomed to thinking in terms of pecking orders that they fail to realize that Alistair is not a whimp, just because he doesn't try to dominate the woman. As LadyD says, he can be snarky and totally infuriating, i.e. he won't always bend to the players will, but neither will he try to bend her to his will. If Alistair had been a true whimp and just said "yes dear" to everything the PC says, he would never had been as popular as he is.

And everyone who thinks Alistair is just a whimp needs to at least once "harden" Alistair and let him duel Loghain to see how he acts when he becomes King.

[Nu-Nu]

He's someone you want to rescue and who can rescue you right back. 

He's a victim and he's a hero.  He had a tough start to life but he didn't give in to it and overcame his past to be someone great and has the pontential to be someone greater.  He's acts like an idiot but he's smart though he pretends he's not due to lack of confidence.  He's a bad cook but at least he cooks and tries!  His cheekiness is cute because he doesn't do it over the top and does it to try and make you laugh.  He's strong yet vunerable.  He shows his emotions, so you're not having to doubt what his intentions towards you are.  He's easy to understand, there's no complications, no second guesses.

He's watches out for you, he's nice and sweet but he's not clingy and motherly, very important!   He's self sacrificing, he's willing to give up his happy ending for the better good, for most part anyways. There's lots of angst in the relationship later on which is very sexy as much as it is heart-breaking. 

Sexy body that can wrap around you easily and comfort you...

He has lots of good qualites.

[wildannie]

I'm a woman and I find all the Alistair love a bit perplexing really, each to their own though.



If Zev wasn't around don't think there'd be much romance going on for any of my PCs.



I just find him pretty bland both in personality and looks, and the accent is totally lost on me... I'm british (scottish).

I really struggle to complete the Alistair romance to the Landsmeet because he's just annoying to me, I find it hard to respect my PC if they are falling for him.

[Xandurpein]

Hanz54321 wrote...

Xandurpein wrote...

Women, in my experience, tend to be far less impressed by Alpha males, than men.

Really?

In my experience women are unconsciously drawn to Alpha traits whether they know it or not.

Men among each other have a strong tendency to establish a pecking order, and try to determine who the Pack leader is (i.e. the Alpha Male). Women very seldom do. Most women will loose interest if a man tries to impress her using the same type of bluster he uses successfully on his mates. A woman can be attracted to a strong male, but she has no interest in being part of his "pack", like his male friends would be.

Many women thinks it's sexy when Alistair is hardened and takes the crown himself, if he has dueled Loghain himself, in the most "manly", dominant behavoiur possible, but that doesn't mean they want him to act like that towards them.

My point was that you are misunderstanding Alistair if you try to see the relationship between the PC and Alistair, leaving romance aside, through the filter of two males trying to establish a pecking order. In that respect the whole character of Alistair is indeed written for the women.

Compare to fore example Sten. The relationship between the PC and Sten really exhibits a lot of the characteristics of two men trying to establish a pecking order. Posturing, blustering, questioning the PC's authority (dominance), leading to grudging respect and manly handshakes. It's no wonder so many men thinks Sten is much manlier than Alistair and wonder why women prefer Ali.

Modifié par Xandurpein, 10 juin 2010 - 01:52 .

[Addai]

Creature 1 wrote...

SamAnthem wrote...

He becomes king!

Definitely a great reason to romance anyone, that or having oodles of money.  (What was that word you called Zevran?)

(My human noble wants to be queen!)

Well good thing she's a human noble, then, or else Alistair would have his little story-book romance knowing all along you could never be queen and then publicly dump you. 

Plus look at the alternitive...a **** of an elf who wont even tell you he loves you...The choice was easy for me.

High school jock vs. verbally reticent but wholly dedicated man--yeah, that choice is easy for me too.  

Plus he amuses me.

Well, yes, Alistair does amuse everyone. 

Both of your posts, the original quoted and the responses here, illustrate why it is useless and counter-productive to play comparative LI's.

Just resist the urge and let both romances stand on their own.

[Addai]

Xandurpein wrote...

I think your post explains very well why women love Alistair, but so many male players misunderstand him and call him a whimp. The classic Alpha male, that men tend to equate with being "manly" is the top dog. The one who dominates those around him. Men are brought up to respect the pecking order and respect the Alpha male. Alistair has no pretentions on being an Alpha male, so by default many men thinks he is "whimpy".

Women, in my experience, tend to be far less impressed by Alpha males, than men. If some women like Alpha Males it's probably more due to the "bragging rights" for catching him, than for how they try to act within the relationship. I think women can feel it's hot when a man stands up for himself and refuse to be pushed around, but that does NOT equate to them liking him trying to push her around.

Men are so much more accustomed to thinking in terms of pecking orders that they fail to realize that Alistair is not a whimp, just because he doesn't try to dominate the woman. As LadyD says, he can be snarky and totally infuriating, i.e. he won't always bend to the players will, but neither will he try to bend her to his will. If Alistair had been a true whimp and just said "yes dear" to everything the PC says, he would never had been as popular as he is.

And everyone who thinks Alistair is just a whimp needs to at least once "harden" Alistair and let him duel Loghain to see how he acts when he becomes King.

Well said, and last sentence bolded for truth.  I would add that Alistair is not a wimp for refusing to play pecking order with a male PC, either.  It is indicative of insecurity in some respects, but also of a phlegmatic, easy-going nature.  The player can help him improve himself in the first area, but to me the second is a strength in itself.

[Giggles_Manically]

One of my sisters did like him until he started demanding Loghains death and the throne. So in short she just hates him now after the ending.



My other sister actually chose Zevran since he sounded like Antonio Banderas to her.