242 réponses à ce sujet

[GreenDragon37]

Shandepared wrote...

Then there are the Blue Suns batarians you meet who don't seem to care at all that you're human, as well as the merchant.

That dosen't give me a good reason why they are automatially absolved of all of their sins and should be forgiven on the spot. They just want money. That does not make Batarians easily excusible/forgiveable.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 26 juin 2010 - 01:20 .

[megatron999]

didymos1120 wrote...

megatron999 wrote...

Basically the Batarians are bitter and resentful due to them attacking humanity without warning and then getting there heads kicked in.

If you're referring to Elysium, that wasn't just the Batarians.  Remember Elanos Haliat?

The article also states that the Batarians funded The Skyllian Blitz[/b] attack on Elysium and:

"The attack was partly a batarian reprisal for humanity's expansion in
the Verge, and partly the result of tensions from the Alliance's pirate suppression campaign"

You are right in that Elanos Haliat planned and carried out the raid but he did have the support of the Batarians. I never actually did the mission with Elanos Haliat I must have missed it.

The Batarians you meet are very resentful of humanity due to them being lied to by there government, the verge was effectively open space free for anyone to claim. The Batarians still have their colonies and planets under control. The Alliance never invaded there space.   

[Kurt M.]

Yakko77 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Well slavery has always been a big part of the batarians' culture, which is illegal by Council law. That's the biggest mystery.

Mass Effect Wiki says this:

"Slavery is an integral part of the batarian caste system, despite being illegal according to Council law, and it is currently unknown how the batarians maintained standing on the Citadel for so long with slavery still actively practiced."

Well, if it were for me, I'd create a new Human law/"tradition" opposing the Batarian one:

"Batarian mindless slaugher is an integral part of the human educational system, despite
being illegal according to Council law, and it is currently unknown how
the humans maintained standing on the Citadel for so long with such killing sprees still actively practiced."

And if Batarians argue against it, we'd just have to say: "Hey!, respect our traditions, you batarian racists!"

[skl]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Zaxares wrote...
Yes, he
hates humans, but he's likely bought into the propaganda that's been
blasted at him 24/7 by the Hegemony, and has never thought to question
it.

Except he doesn't live in batarian space, he lives on
Omega. Outside the control of the Hegemony and surrounded by humans. His
ongoing exposure to humans trying to get by in lawless poverty and
alien harassment has done nothing to temper his hatred. He just doesn't
respect humans.

Well yes, he lives on Omega. You know, the place filled with all sorts of
crooks, criminals and the scum of the Earth in general. And sorry, but there are probably just as many
humans doing the harassment as being harassed there. So why should anyone respect them? 

[GreenDragon37]

skl wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

Zaxares wrote...
Yes, he
hates humans, but he's likely bought into the propaganda that's been
blasted at him 24/7 by the Hegemony, and has never thought to question
it.

Except he doesn't live in batarian space, he lives on
Omega. Outside the control of the Hegemony and surrounded by humans. His
ongoing exposure to humans trying to get by in lawless poverty and
alien harassment has done nothing to temper his hatred. He just doesn't
respect humans.

Well yes, he lives on Omega. You know, the place filled with all sorts of
crooks, criminals and the scum of the Earth in general. And sorry, but there are probably just as many
humans doing the harassment as being harassed there. So why should anyone respect them? 

Nef and her moher weren't bad people. Why hate them? Those Humans standing around the Mad Prophet didn't do anything to the Mad Prophet. They just stood there shaking their heads. They didn't boo him down or attack him, they let him talk with no harm coming to himself.  They weren't disrupting the peace, the Batarian was. And we don't know that there are just as many Humans doing the harassment. From what I've seen, the Batarians have been doing things on Omega to get Humans pissed off at them. The Mad Prophet whose full of crap and the lower Afterlife Bartender poisoning Humans for example. Why would Humans not be angered? Why should Humans give them respect if they keep doing things like this?

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 26 juin 2010 - 01:53 .

[skl]

But the Mad Prophet isn't actually doing anything - just talking. Not to mention that he's mad, so of course he's full of crap. And since pretty much the only law on Omega is Aria's, and he's done nothing to bother her, I can't say he's disrupting whatever peace there is... The bystanders seemed to me to be just curious, not angry. 
The bartender was ONE murderer. What, there aren't any human psychos? How about the guy who escaped from Purgatory during Jack's recruitment? Or even Jack herself - how many people has she killed, again? Does that mean all humans are serial killers? 

Modifié par skl, 26 juin 2010 - 01:29 .

[Tooneyman]

skl wrote...

But the Mad Prophet isn't actually doing anything - just talking. Not to mention that he's mad, so of course he's full of crap. And since pretty much the only law on Omega is Aria's, and he's done nothing to bother her, I can't say he's disrupting whatever peace there is... The bystanders seemed to me to be just curious, not angry. 
The bartender was ONE murderer. What, there aren't any human psychos? How about the guy who escaped from Purgatory during Jack's recruitment? Or even Jack herself - how many people has she killed, again? Does that mean all humans are serial killers? 

YES!

[Christmas Ape]

skl wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

Zaxares wrote...
Yes, he hates humans, but he's likely bought into the propaganda that's been blasted at him 24/7 by the Hegemony, and has never thought to question it.

Except he doesn't live in batarian space, he lives on Omega. Outside the control of the Hegemony and surrounded by humans. His ongoing exposure to humans trying to get by in lawless poverty and  alien harassment has done nothing to temper his hatred. He just doesn't  respect humans.

Well yes, he lives on Omega. You know, the place filled with all sorts of crooks, criminals and the scum of the Earth in general. And sorry, but there are probably just as many humans doing the harassment as being harassed there. So why should anyone respect them?

I refer you to the couple in the quarantined apartment; "Humans aren't well-liked around here."
In support of their case, apparently decent humans in Omega:

• That same couple, who by their admission don't even own a gun
• Mordin's assistant David
• Mordin's reception staff & security guard
• Nef and her mother
• The punk you (can) stop from signing up to die
• The guy whose friend was poisoned by Forvan
• The undercover reporter and her buddy in Samara's loyalty mission

The less-than-decent humans of Omega:

• A pair of opportunistic looters (over whom Shepard has no moral high ground)
• Jentha
• Was the gang leader the reporter was talking to human? If so, him.
• Maybe some of the other nameless Blue Suns and Eclipse mercs, you never meet them

That's....everybody, off the top of my head. Omega is full of a lot of people just trying to get by - how they ended up out here is anyone's guess, though probably not a few of them escaped from batarian slavers - which apparently doesn't temper batarian loathing for them.

[megatron999]

The Batarian government are total scum, they enslave worlds and bully people yet when things don't go their way they get all aggressive and then get there arses handed to them.



I hope in ME3 we get to invade the Batarians homeworld and conquer it!

[GreenDragon37]

skl wrote...

But the Mad Prophet isn't actually doing anything - just talking. And since pretty much the only law on Omega is Aria's, and he's done nothing to bother her, I can't say he's disrupting whatever peace there is... The bystanders seemed to me to be just curious, not angry. 
The bartender was ONE murderer. What, there aren't any human psychos? How about the guy who escaped from Purgatory during Jack's recruitment? Or even Jack herself - how many people has she killed, again? Does that mean all humans are serial killers? 

Again, we've seen the good side of Humanity, who offset the bad. Anderson, Admiral Hackett, Paragon Shep, the Alliance as a whole(took the Paragon route and saved the Council), Joker, Ashley Williams, Kaidan, Jacob(technically), Doctor Michel, Samesh Bhatia, Emily Wong, Rita and her sister, David and the other Humans at the clinic, and on and on and on. Heck, even Conrad Verner can be considered ("good", naive, but good) because he tries to help and hasn't actually done anything wrong. I'm not gonna list all of the good ones.  What good have Batarians done? What has the Batarian government done to offset these terrorists and criminals who roam around causing trouble for the rest of the galaxy, especially Humanity? Nothing. In fact, their propoganda and other hate messages encourage terrorism and strikes at Humanity no matter how small or how large the damage is. Especially since they seem to do nothing to stop these terrorists.

Stop sugar-coating the Batarians as these people "desperate for help." If they wanted to sway people to help them, they wouldn't be doing all of this. They would condemn the terrorists and try to make peace. So far, none of the Batarians have done that. They haven't condemned the cruel enslavement of Humans nor the terrorist attacks.

Modifié par GreenDragon37, 26 juin 2010 - 02:00 .

[skl]

GreenDragon37 wrote...

skl wrote...

But the Mad Prophet isn't actually doing anything - just talking. And since pretty much the only law on Omega is Aria's, and he's done nothing to bother her, I can't say he's disrupting whatever peace there is... The bystanders seemed to me to be just curious, not angry. 
The bartender was ONE murderer. What, there aren't any human psychos? How about the guy who escaped from Purgatory during Jack's recruitment? Or even Jack herself - how many people has she killed, again? Does that mean all humans are serial killers? 

Again, we've seen the good side of Humanity, who offset the bad. Anderson, Admiral Hackett, Paragon Shep, the Alliance as a whole(took the Paragon route and saved the Council), Joker, Ashley Williams, Kaidan, Jacob(technically), Doctor Michel, Samesh Bhatia, Emily Wong, Rita and her sister, David and the other Humans at the clinic, and on and on and on. Heck, even Conrad Verner can be considered ("good", naive, but good) because he tries to help and hasn't actually done anything wrong. I'm not gonna list all of the good ones.  What good have Batarians done? What has the Batarian government done to offset these terrorists and criminals who roam around causing trouble for the rest of the galaxy, especially Humanity? Nothing. In fact, their propoganda and other hate messages encourage terrorism and strikes at Humanity no matter how small or how large the damage is. Especially since they seem to do nothing to stop these terrorists.

Stop sugar-coating the Batarians as these people "desperate for help." If they wanted to sway people to help them, they wouldn't be doing all of this. They would condemn the terrorists and try to make peace. So far, none of the Batarians have done that. They haven't condemned the cruel enslavement of Humans nor the terrorist attacks.

I agree, we have the good side of humanity. And then we have Cerberus, whose "work" would make me feel at best ashamed of being human. They also have agents very high in the Alliance hierarchy (http://masseffect.wi...m/wiki/Cerberus). So in a way, the Alliance also promotes terrorism (much as I don't like using that particular label). And it's indiscriminate, too - Cerberus is experimenting on anyone and anything.
I'm just saying, it's unfair to portray an entire species as purely evil; that's why I liked the interactions with the Batarians in ME2: at least it's an opportunity to see things from their perspective. And no I don't want to "help" them overthrow their government or something, this is a disgusting idea. I don't like stereotypes, that's all.

[Vaenier]

I saw them as canon fodder, just like Bioware designed them to be. So they did a good job with the race.

[skl]

Christmas Ape wrote...

skl wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

Zaxares wrote...
Yes, he hates humans, but he's likely bought into the propaganda that's been blasted at him 24/7 by the Hegemony, and has never thought to question it.

Except he doesn't live in batarian space, he lives on Omega. Outside the control of the Hegemony and surrounded by humans. His ongoing exposure to humans trying to get by in lawless poverty and  alien harassment has done nothing to temper his hatred. He just doesn't  respect humans.

Well yes, he lives on Omega. You know, the place filled with all sorts of crooks, criminals and the scum of the Earth in general. And sorry, but there are probably just as many humans doing the harassment as being harassed there. So why should anyone respect them?

I refer you to the couple in the quarantined apartment; "Humans aren't well-liked around here."
In support of their case, apparently decent humans in Omega:

• That same couple, who by their admission don't even own a gun
• Mordin's assistant David
• Mordin's reception staff & security guard
• Nef and her mother
• The punk you (can) stop from signing up to die
• The guy whose friend was poisoned by Forvan
• The undercover reporter and her buddy in Samara's loyalty mission

The less-than-decent humans of Omega:

• A pair of opportunistic looters (over whom Shepard has no moral high ground)
• Jentha
• Was the gang leader the reporter was talking to human? If so, him.
• Maybe some of the other nameless Blue Suns and Eclipse mercs, you never meet them

That's....everybody, off the top of my head. Omega is full of a lot of people just trying to get by - how they ended up out here is anyone's guess, though probably not a few of them escaped from batarian slavers - which apparently doesn't temper batarian loathing for them.

I know; it's just that the mercs probably far outnumber everyone else in both the "good" and the "bad" categories. While they surely have a variety of reasons for signing up (up to and including getting away from the horrible life in the slums and/or being able to stand up for themselves), it doesn't change the fact that their activities are at best questionable. Being nameless and all, you can't really tell if they feel any remorse at all, or if they fully enjoy their jobs. 

[Christmas Ape]

skl wrote...

And no I don't want to "help" them overthrow their government or something, this is a disgusting idea.

You and I have very different ideas of "disgusting". I tend to reserve it for things like "build a slave labor camp on a low-gravity world so your slaves lose bone density until they can't escape without being crippled" and "shoot the less valuable members of a weeping colonist family, weld control devices to the skulls of the others in the ashes of their home", as opposed to "crush with fire, fusion, and steel the forces that condone and fund these actions". Different perspectives, I guess.

skl wrote...

I know; it's just that the mercs probably far outnumber everyone else in both the "good" and the "bad" categories. While they surely have a variety of reasons for signing up (up to and including getting away from the horrible life in the slums and/or being able to stand up for themselves), it doesn't change the fact that their activities are at best questionable. Being nameless and all, you can't really tell if they feel any remorse at all, or if they fully enjoy their jobs.

The same can be said of the batarians working for the Blue Suns. I'd say that makes individuals who are, shall we say, "organizationally evil" a wash for both sides.

[skl]

Christmas Ape wrote...
You and I have very different ideas of "disgusting". I tend to reserve it for things like "build a slave labor camp on a low-gravity world so your slaves lose bone density until they can't escape without being crippled" and "shoot the less valuable members of a weeping colonist family, weld control devices to the skulls of the others in the ashes of their home", as opposed to "crush with fire, fusion, and steel the forces that condone and fund these actions". Different perspectives, I guess.

I don't approve of those practices either, but I'd rather not presume that my way is the only way, much less try to impose it on anyone. And what you propose would probably result in a genocide; sorry but that's a little extreme for me. 
On another note - weren't we supposed to unite the galaxy against a common threat? I don't see outright war with the  Batarians as a way of doing that. 

[Christmas Ape]

skl wrote...

I don't approve of those practices either, but I'd rather not presume that my way is the only way, much less try to impose it on anyone.

I'm just saying maybe they'd be interested in pursuing an option that doesn't make them a threat to galactic stability. The Council has a history of...firm measures regarding those sorts of species.

And what you propose would probably result in a genocide; sorry but that's a little extreme for me.

It may also, given the Council's track record, prevent one if the batarian 'extremists' get as ambitious as they did at Terra Nova with any frequency.

On another note - weren't we supposed to unite the galaxy against a common threat? I don't see outright war with the batarians as a way of doing that.

I'm not saying there's any rush. But the fact that the Collector attacks were being plausibly denied by the Alliance as the work of slavers - tens of thousands of people disappearing - suggests that the Hegemony is a problem that we can only let sit on our doorstep for so long before action becomes a matter of survival.

[skl]

Christmas Ape wrote...

skl wrote...
I don't approve of those practices either, but I'd rather not presume that my way is the only way, much less try to impose it on anyone.

I'm just saying maybe they'd be interested in pursuing an option that doesn't make them a threat to galactic stability. The Council has a history of...firm measures regarding those sorts of species.

And what you propose would probably result in a genocide; sorry but that's a little extreme for me.

It may also, given the Council's track record, prevent one if the batarian 'extremists' get as ambitious as they did at Terra Nova with any frequency.

On another note - weren't we supposed to unite the galaxy against a common threat? I don't see outright war with the batarians as a way of doing that.

I'm not saying there's any rush. But the fact that the Collector attacks were being plausibly denied by the Alliance as the work of slavers - tens of thousands of people disappearing - suggests that the Hegemony is a problem that we can only let sit on our doorstep for so long before action becomes a matter of survival.

You're right. However, given that everyone is pretty much content to let things go on the way they have, I seriously doubt we're ever going to need to address that problem in-game. 
Bottom line is: I seem to have way too much free time on my hands...