242 réponses à ce sujet

[Beholderess]

Yakko77 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

I try to do that to, like I did with the Geth, and it paid off with Legion. The Batarians are just a very touchy subject.  

Well yeah. The geth are just machines. Every batarian you meet seems to be deliberately evil.

The question is, if the only batarians who leave batarian space are bad criminals, and if those are the ONLY batarians we will ever interact with, then are the batarians, for all practical intents and purposes, a bad criminal race?

Which begs the question, how were they allowed to be a Council race if that's all they are or did something dramatically change concerning their behavior since they did become a Council up to when humanity entered the scene which is when things seem to have taken a turn for the worse.....

Now this is an interesting question. From that news report it is clear that Council is not fond of slavery. How did they manage to become a Council race in the first place then?

[pf17456]

Foolsfolly wrote...

pf17456 wrote...

What I like about the Batarians is that they embrace elements of Human culture that we consider unacceptable but in many cases do anyway. Batarians bring these societal conflicts to the fore forcing them to awarenes. The thing is if we consider terrorism, persecution,prejudice, slavery etc to be unacceptable evils and go about trying to solve it by forcing the Batarians to give up their lifestyle or cultural belief system then we're no better than they are. I mean where do the Humans come off trying to impose their way of life on everyone in the galaxy, like convert to Christianity or we'll chop your head off. It's amazingly hypocritical. I like Aria's one rule on Omega and I think applying it to the Galaxy is a good start.

Mindoir is not the result of a productive culture.

Sometimes one way is better than another.

Agreed. Next time bring bigger guns when you try to settle a farming colony and don't assume that uncharted territory is safe.

[Beholderess]

pf17456 wrote...

GreenDragon37 wrote...

pf17456 wrote...

What I like about the Batarians is that they embrace elements of Human culture that we consider unacceptable but in many cases do anyway. Batarians bring these societal conflicts to the fore forcing them to awarenes. The thing is if we consider terrorism, persecution,prejudice, slavery etc to be unacceptable evils and go about trying to solve it by forcing the Batarians to give up their lifestyle or cultural belief system then we're no better than they are. I mean where do the Humans come off trying to impose their way of life on everyone in the galaxy, like convert to Christianity or we'll chop your head off. It's amazingly hypocritical. I like Aria's one rule on Omega and I think applying it to the Galaxy is a good start.

I know I was about to go to bed but... So you think slavery is good? So you think that Batarians enslaving Humanity for the lulz is good? Also, it was the Batarians whom had tried to impose their will by saying that Humans shouldn't be able to settle the Skyllian Verge. What gave them that right? Also, Aria's one rule should not be implied to galactic society. That would be terrible. Anarchy would reign supreme. Plus you seem to forget, the Reapers would succeed.

Didn't say I thought slavery was good. Did say I liked that the notion of slavery was brought to the fore by the Batarians so it's forced to be something you think about. Did imply that hating the Batarians for their cultural differences and trying to force them to comply with our beliefs kind of enslaves them.

Well, if their beliefs and practices (slavery, terrorism etc) only applied to their own species, then you'd be right. However, they are taking slaves of other species, ones that don't share this idea or find it acceptable. Are they not "forcing their own cultural norms" on others then?

[Whatever Works]

Yes they are. That is quite unacceptable.

[pf17456]

[/quote]

Well, if their beliefs and practices (slavery, terrorism etc) only applied to their own species, then you'd be right. However, they are taking slaves of other species, ones that don't share this idea or find it acceptable. Are they not "forcing their own cultural norms" on others then?

[/quote]

So does that justify doing the same thing to them ? Or maybe they're more like us than we'd like to admit.
I remember Liara saying that the rest of the galaxy viewed humans as somewhat like bullies. I think Batarians view us the same way we view them

[Collider]

I think my opinion of Batarians improved subconsciously, but really, they are all betrayed as rather negative. They probably shouldn't.

[pf17456]

I think they represent elements of humanity we'd rather not admit were there and if we hate the Batarians we feel better about ourselves but it doesn't change anything. Humans will still loot the dead

[drunken pyromaniac]

I see batarians as essentially another race of space orcs, they're intentionally portrayed unsympathetically so that we may hate and kill them without guilt. Still there are a few instances like the two encounters in the quarantine zone on Omega where they are portrayed positively or at least sympathetically.
As a species and power they're even more the quintessential mooks and obigatory enemy with no redeeming qualities. They are petitioning the Council that anti-slavery laws violate their cultural rights, for instance.

Modifié par drunken pyromaniac, 09 juin 2010 - 04:47 .

[Foolsfolly]

pf17456 wrote...

I think they represent elements of humanity we'd rather not admit were there and if we hate the Batarians we feel better about ourselves but it doesn't change anything. Humans will still loot the dead

...are you a moron?

There's nothing redeeming about them. They're card carrying villains. It's a race of monsters bent on slavery and terrorism. It's like Space Al-Quada.

The other races have their negatives and their positives that represents humanity better. Hell, humanity represents humanity better! You have people like Anderson, Ashley Williams, and possibly Shepard who believe in things bigger and better than themselves and you have Udina, Illusive Man, Cerberus as a whole, and any other terrorist or madman all there in humanity! We're multifaceted. We're sinners and saints!

Batarians are sinners and sinners. They only exist so we'd have an enemy we wouldn't feel guilty mowing down.

[pf17456]

Foolsfolly wrote...

pf17456 wrote...

I think they represent elements of humanity we'd rather not admit were there and if we hate the Batarians we feel better about ourselves but it doesn't change anything. Humans will still loot the dead

...are you a moron?

There's nothing redeeming about them. They're card carrying villains. It's a race of monsters bent on slavery and terrorism. It's like Space Al-Quada.

The other races have their negatives and their positives that represents humanity better. Hell, humanity represents humanity better! You have people like Anderson, Ashley Williams, and possibly Shepard who believe in things bigger and better than themselves and you have Udina, Illusive Man, Cerberus as a whole, and any other terrorist or madman all there in humanity! We're multifaceted. We're sinners and saints!

Batarians are sinners and sinners. They only exist so we'd have an enemy we wouldn't feel guilty mowing down.

Thought I said that.

[Bluko]

I dunno to me Batarians are almost worse then Vorcha. Vorcha are just stupid. Batarians on the other hand are being douchebags on purpose. Simply because they didn't get their way they stormed off on the Council and decided to attack Humans whenever they could. Sounds pretty petty to me.

If they can't be reasoned with, might as well just kill the bastards until they learn. They certainly haven't made any attempts towards peace so until then I assume were essentially at war with one another.

My Shepard isn't going to attack every Batarian on sight or anything like that. But if they're up to no good he's certainly not going to show them any mercy that's for sure.

I imagine even with the threat of the Reapers the Batarians still won't co-operate with us.

[Nightwriter]

Yakko77 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Well slavery has always been a big part of the batarians' culture, which is illegal by Council law. That's the biggest mystery.

Mass Effect Wiki says this:

"Slavery is an integral part of the batarian caste system, despite being illegal according to Council law, and it is currently unknown how the batarians maintained standing on the Citadel for so long with slavery still actively practiced."

Good find.

Is this a major plothole then?

Well the only excuse I could think of is the Council, though bound by a code of moral law, also has respect for other races' cultures, and slavery is such a huge part of the batarian way of life that their whole culture centers around it, and has for forever.

You see lots of episodes of Star Trek and such where characters are met with extreme moral dilemmas because they encounter races whose practices are acceptable in their culture but intolerable in ours.

The Council may have felt like they couldn't take slavery away from the batarians without destabilizing their entire economy and culture, or perhaps it was always a controversy, or perhaps the batarians only practiced slavery in the Terminus.

[Collider]

Shandepared wrote...
Seriously, batarians are like muslims.

This won't end well.

[Giygas12]

I don't like the batarians. They claim to have it the hardest among the races but, they make themselves a target by attacking colonies and taking slaves and trading slaves.

[JohnnyBeGood2]

Shandepared wrote...

Seriously, batarians are like muslims.

wow shand

Modifié par JohnnyBeGood2, 09 juin 2010 - 06:16 .

[Beholderess]

pf17456 wrote...

So does that justify doing the same thing to them ? Or maybe they're more like us than we'd like to admit.
I remember Liara saying that the rest of the galaxy viewed humans as somewhat like bullies. I think Batarians view us the same way we view them

And just when were we doing the same thing to them? I don't remember Alliance attacking peaceful batarian colonies or taking slaves...Am I misinformed?

[ResidentNoob]

Seeing as how it seens to be Shepard's policy to fix absolutely EVERYTHING these days, I figure that in ME3, Bioware's gonna have you go to Khar'shan to enlist the help of the Batarians against the Reapers, while simultaneously going: 'Look, player! The Batarians are actually nowhere near as evil as you once thought they were!' and ending their hatred of humans at the same time.

[Pacifien]

JohnnyBeGood2 wrote...
On Ilium one of the News Reports was of a Batarian legal challenge against the outlawing of slavery because Batarian culture and caste system was defined by slavery and was thus inextricable from it.

Batarian culture fail.

The fact that the news report was on Illium, place of relaxed laws and indentured servitude for competition's sake, is what I find to be the fail.

[Pacifien]

I'm not going to write off the whole Batarian race, though few Batarians have given me much reason to like them. But I do always heal the Batarian in the Quarantine District and I'll take Garrus's comment about a Batarian on his team as evidence they can be worked with.

But my Paragon Shepard is one to judge everyone on an individual basis. Get a Batarian trying to aim an asteroid at a planet or his croney admitting to a slave grab, odds are the exchange is not going to end on good terms. Get a Batarian merchant willing to sell me his goods at a discounted price, we'll deal.

[Neuzhelin]

After reading the novels, I see batarians as something that could have happened to humans if not for the strong politicians. Because of that humans were integrated better and when the illegal AI research was discovered, there was a chance humans could have become the batarians of the galaxy. Humans simply infiltrated all kinds of ranks, colonized more then anyone else and built up weapons to intimidate the council through diplomacy. Batarians kept more for themselves and when they saw the human colonization, forgiveness of the council when it came to AI research withdrawed themselves from the community.

I hope there will be a way to resolve the Batarian issue in ME3 (return them an embassy seat), just as I hope there will be a possibility to resolve rachni, krogan, geth and quarian problems in a paragon play. (in that order).

Batarians are strugling to get by, similarly to the krogan and the quarians taking all kind of dirty jobs in the terminus systems.

Modifié par Neuzhelin, 09 juin 2010 - 03:21 .

[Pacifien]

Makes me wonder just how large the batarian population is. They seem rather set on believing they could never take on the humans in a straight up fight, but yet we see them all over the Terminus Systems.

[ciaweth]

In general, my Shep is not at all fond of batarians, given her colonist background.  If she finds one that will talk to her instead of trying to kill her, she'll give them a chance as an individual. It's the principle of the thing. That, and the fact that Garrus said he had a batarian guy on his team on Omega, is why I let the sick batarian on Omega live.

But they're still mostly dirtbags.

Modifié par ciaweth, 09 juin 2010 - 04:22 .

[spacehamsterZH]

Foolsfolly wrote...
Batarians are sinners and sinners. They only exist so we'd have an enemy we wouldn't feel guilty mowing down.

Pretty much. One of the few things that have always kind of irked me about ME's world is that it does this. I actually think it's even worse with the Volus, especially in ME2. Every single one of them is a sniveling, conniving, money-grubbing little coward. They're all unsympathetic, and all for the same reason. Of course it's just a way to establish a fictional universe to give separate species certain stereotypes so that you can tell them apart, but on some level it also kind of communicates the idea that it's possible for every single member of a particular species/race to be completely despicable. I'm not saying that's intentional or that Mass Effect discriminates against its own fictional species, but it's kind of an undercurrent in the games, and if you look at the utterly idiotic garbage some people involved in this discussion are spouting about, oh, say, Muslims... I'm actually surprised how obviously the idea of one alien species being completely bad attracts these kinds of retards, I thought I was reading too much into it, but I guess not.

[Pacifien]

spacehamsterZH wrote...
Pretty much. One of the few things that have always kind of irked me about ME's world is that it does this. I actually think it's even worse with the Volus, especially in ME2. Every single one of them is a sniveling, conniving, money-grubbing little coward. They're all unsympathetic, and all for the same reason.*snip*

Aw, I like Barla Von...