962 réponses à ce sujet

[Miss Yuna of Atlanta]

I found myself using Shockwave from time to time to knock enemies out of cover, but other than that, I didn't do jack with it. Then again, I was playing my Adept on Hardcore.

[Irzhen]

Shockwave is probably one of the funniest and useless habilities and the whole game imo (talking about insanity). To take enemies out of cover singularity works too, have a shorter cd, gets them out of cover for longer, and still can allow for a warp explosion. Of course that you will need to arc singularity, but even to knock enemies out of cover an adept have better tools.

[NICKjnp]

sinosleep wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

shockwave will never be handy on insanity. its a waste of a cooldown. its a waste of 3 points. its fun as hell on casual tho!

Gotta agree with this. Shockwave is an AWFUL ability. One of the absolute worst in the game.

Well I've found uses for it on Insanity.  It is situational but I still like to have it.  Just because you don't like it doesn't make it awful.

I even find uses for it on vanguards.  On missions with husks it is great.  If Shepard and Samara both have area reave you can use shockwave to go bowling just like on casual.

[Irzhen]

The problem is that it doesn't work on protected enemies, they will be out of cover for a second or 2 then go back to their positions, so no bowling. If they don't have defenses pull is better, both vanguard and adepts have that, although you need 3 points in shockwave for it on a vanguard. Not to mention that pull have a much shorter cd than shockwave. You may like it, but I really don't see any situation that shockwave is better than the other base habilites available to the classes that have it.

Modifié par Irzhen, 19 novembre 2010 - 01:14 .

[The Spamming Troll]

NICKjnp wrote...

sinosleep wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

shockwave will never be handy on insanity. its a waste of a cooldown. its a waste of 3 points. its fun as hell on casual tho!

Gotta agree with this. Shockwave is an AWFUL ability. One of the absolute worst in the game.

Well I've found uses for it on Insanity.  It is situational but I still like to have it.  Just because you don't like it doesn't make it awful.

I even find uses for it on vanguards.  On missions with husks it is great.  If Shepard and Samara both have area reave you can use shockwave to go bowling just like on casual.

i dont like shockwave on insanity, becasue it IS awful.

situational, as in if every enemy you "shockwave" doesnt have any enemy protections. which  is so rare in itself. using pull on one enemy, or a small group of enemies would be much better then triny to make shockwave become more then a .5 second stun, not to mention pulls cooldowns half as long. id even say on every ocasion, two pull fields is better then one shockwave.

[sinosleep]

NICKjnp wrote...

Well I've found uses for it on Insanity.  It is situational but I still like to have it.  Just because you don't like it doesn't make it awful.

I even find uses for it on vanguards.  On missions with husks it is great.  If Shepard and Samara both have area reave you can use shockwave to go bowling just like on casual.

Here's a quote of mine from another thread

sinosleep wrote...

incineration blast does more damage to heath, instantly strips armor, and has the same cool down

overload strips shields, renders weapons useless on health, and is instacast same cool down

energy drain, overload on crack same cd

reave, incineration on crack, plus it one shots barriers same cd

warp, one shots barriers and armor on single targets, sets off warp explosions, fast travel time same cd

In addition to that when compared to the other health only powers it is utterly useless as well.

Pull: substantially quicker cd and travel time, far more controllable CC, can set up warp explosions.

Throw: substantially quicker CD and travel time, far more controllable CC



EVERY use you can find for shockwave on insanity another power does better. Every, last, one.

And as far as staggers go? 



Fast forward to 1:48. Pull will net you more staggers in less time.

I defend a LOT of aspects of this game, but shockwave is not one of them. It's an awful, awful, ability.

Modifié par sinosleep, 20 novembre 2010 - 03:26 .

[Miss Yuna of Atlanta]

Part of me thinks that BioWare didn't really test things out on Insanity. Things like Shockwave, Mattock Adrenaline Rush, and Tech Armor just make me wonder. The game is still really good, but...

[The Spamming Troll]

part of me thinks bioware didnt test enemy protections at all.

how do we make the game harder? make the enemies immune to all abilities! (i dont consider debuffs, abilities.)

at the same meeting a similar quesiton was asked.....

how do we make the game stupider? add enemy protections!

I HATE ENEMY PROTECTIONS.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 20 novembre 2010 - 04:56 .

[sinosleep]

I quite like enemy protections. Unlike most games which tend to simply buff enemy health without giving you any way to counteract it and such simply turn the game into a damned timesink enemy defenses buff enemy health but have built in counters that make it so that it doesn't feel cheap.

Things that should one shot regardless of difficulty still do (claymore, widow) and the rock/paper/scissors aspect of them adds a bit of strategy with regards to who you decide to bring with you on missions.

Modifié par sinosleep, 20 novembre 2010 - 05:21 .

[incinerator950]

I thought Gatsby handled this almost a year ago.

[The Spamming Troll]

sinosleep wrote...

I quite like enemy protections. Unlike most games which tend to simply buff enemy health without giving you any way to counteract it and such simply turn the game into a damned timesink enemy defenses buff enemy health but have built in counters that make it so that it doesn't feel cheap.

Things that should one shot regardless of difficulty still do (claymore, widow) and the rock/paper/scissors aspect of them adds a bit of strategy with regards to who you decide to bring with you on missions.

you like ME1 insanity over ME2s? i dont apreciate either option. if im looking to be challenged further, i dont want the game to change as drastically as it does from veteran to hardcore. i want thigns like more enemies, more advanced enemies, destructable cover, less money to be found, less health packs to be had, enemies that use more abilities on me....and so on. theres alot better options then saying easy is 2 shots with a pistol and insanity is 37 shots. that doesnt seem like strategy, it seems like crap.

what if bioware implements 3 more layers of enemy protections in ME3? i just dont see shields, armor and barrier adding any strategy. i only see it as a few colors that dont allow me to play my adept, like an adept. considering youll most likely always have miranda with you on insanity, your left with one option on who to bring anyways.

sometimes i think bioware is fooling you if you actually think you have any sort of choice in this game.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 20 novembre 2010 - 02:38 .

[Irzhen]

Since most biotics doesn't work with enemy protections, adding more defense will actually add strategy because you will have to think how to take out those defense before you get killed or run out of bullets so you can use your powers. More enemies only add strategy if you don't have any way of neutralizing the whole room with one click of a button. More advanced enemies will be same thing. Pretty much what you stated that will add strategy will only work if biotics doesn't work on enemies protections so you can't neutralize them all. Which is the state of biotics right now. Biotics have a lower range on ME2 than on ME1, but with the amount of CC an adept have, powers working on protections will allow an adept that knows how to play to CC entire rooms of enemies. YMIR Mechs, Harbinger, Scions and all other enemies that are supposed to be harder wouldn't be anymore (although they aren't that hard anyway). The defenses in addition to the change of the ammo actually added more strategy than if they had did everything you said and left biotics untouched so they worked on protections. It's still a lame increase in difficult, but imo the only decent increase in difficult that wouldn't look artificial was increase in AI.

[Sparrow44]

I think when it comes to choosing which class to play as at the beginning of each game, especially when considering playing on harder difficulties is the fact that there are pros and cons to each class in terms of weapons, powers and what they can enable that class to achieve (the whole point of a class system in this game).

For example trying to choose between a Vanguard and an Adept (both my favorite classes) I'm basically sacrificing one particular benefit and playstyle for another. I might want to play Adept over Vanguard because I don't feel like trying to close in on enemies despite having superior weapon damage, so I'll choose Adept because I can take targets out at longer range and with more powers available.

If defenses are an issue then it means Ive gotta alter tactics slightly so I can handle any situation with what I'm faced, which all classes can do on Insanity regardless of what powers they have or haven't got. Honestly I've never had much of an issue with defenses, they're half the battle when facing enemies and once those defenses are gone it's still playtime for the Adept!

Modifié par Sparroww, 20 novembre 2010 - 06:34 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Sparroww wrote...

.......once those defenses are gone it's still playtime for the Adept!

you mean its "finally" playtime for the adept, right? which is exactly my problem. im not playing an ADEPT, untill ive used my weapons or my squadmates debuffs. what other class has to do something completely unrelated to its purpose, in order to actually play as that class?

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 20 novembre 2010 - 06:58 .

[The Spamming Troll]

Irzhen wrote...

Since most biotics doesn't work with enemy protections, adding more defense will actually add strategy because you will have to think how to take out those defense before you get killed or run out of bullets so you can use your powers. More enemies only add strategy if you don't have any way of neutralizing the whole room with one click of a button. More advanced enemies will be same thing. Pretty much what you stated that will add strategy will only work if biotics doesn't work on enemies protections so you can't neutralize them all. Which is the state of biotics right now. Biotics have a lower range on ME2 than on ME1, but with the amount of CC an adept have, powers working on protections will allow an adept that knows how to play to CC entire rooms of enemies. YMIR Mechs, Harbinger, Scions and all other enemies that are supposed to be harder wouldn't be anymore (although they aren't that hard anyway). The defenses in addition to the change of the ammo actually added more strategy than if they had did everything you said and left biotics untouched so they worked on protections. It's still a lame increase in difficult, but imo the only decent increase in difficult that wouldn't look artificial was increase in AI.

your saying by taking away the adepts biotics, the game becomes more strategic? which is essentially what enemy protections are for, to take away the very reason why im playing an adept. i just not in agreement with that sort of limitation.

more importantly, you mentioned the ammo system change creates strategy too? the point of an infiltrator is to snipe. does it make sense to you at all why a snipeing specialist only carries a max of 10 sniper bullets with them? or isnt that some gameplay design that only limits what the classes actual funtion is?

[Sparrow44]

^^^

Just because you'd rather not use debuffs, squadmate powers and your own weapons doesn't mean it's a definitive playstyle for anyone else wanting to play that class, that's pretty much choosing to gimp yourself.



A no-guns Adept can be done, but its boring, too static whereas I much prefer a faster paced playstyle which I can get on an Adept, do I use guns and squad powers? YES. Do I have to use 'em? NO, but it adds to the game...not the opposite.

[Miss Yuna of Atlanta]

The enemy protection system is really well-done. The first game's Insanity wasn't hard at all. It was just tedious and time-consuming, because that game's idea of "really really hard" is "just give every enemy Immunity to pad out the length of the fight." It doesn't matter if the fight takes longer, though, if the whole thing is spent pewpewpewpewing at enemies that are caught in Singularity. Adepts were overpowered as hell in the first game. Playing as one did the impossible by making Mass Effect boring.

[The Spamming Troll]

sparrow,

....just as you prefer to play a soldier-adept, i prefer to play an adept-adept. we all have our own opinions of what ME should be. i base mine more off ME1. you base yours off ME2. but you didnt answer my question tho. you just gave me excuses why an adept doesnt play as an adept with enemy protections. name another class that doesnt play as that class was intended to play, because of enemy protections.

i just hope ME3 is more along the lines of the game ME1 gave us, rather then ME2: episode 2.

Miss Yuna of Atlanta wrote...
Adepts were overpowered as hell in the first game. Playing as one did the impossible by making Mass Effect boring.

i played ME1 over 40 times. im somewaht bored of it by now. which i should be.

ive played ME2 maybe 7 times, and im completely done with it.

boring, only to you.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 20 novembre 2010 - 07:43 .

[sinosleep]

The Spamming Troll wrote..

your saying by taking away the adepts biotics, the game becomes more strategic? which is essentially what enemy protections are for, to take away the very reason why im playing an adept. i just not in agreement with that sort of limitation.

more importantly, you mentioned the ammo system change creates strategy too? the point of an infiltrator is to snipe. does it make sense to you at all why a snipeing specialist only carries a max of 10 sniper bullets with them? or isnt that some gameplay design that only limits what the classes actual funtion is?

Being able to snipe through the entire game would be like auto-pilot. Due to the infiltrator's passive it would be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to easy to cakewalk the game if sniper ammo wasn't an issue.

If you had real time sniping I wouldn't have a problem, but when your passive grants you massive slow down at no real time cost (no cool down it's a passive) it has to be balanced some how.

With regards to adepts

[Miss Yuna of Atlanta]

The Spamming Troll wrote...


i played ME1 over 40 times. im somewaht bored of it by now. which i should be.

ive played ME2 maybe 7 times, and im completely done with it.

boring, only to you.

I played the first Mass Effect from beginning to end on Insanity over sixty times. I can still play as an Infiltrator or even a Sentinel and have a blast, but I can only enjoy putting every enemy within a ten-meter radius into an unavoidable black hole so many times. I like being challenged. If you don't(which you certainly don't appear to), then more power to you, I guess.

[Irzhen]

Yes, like sinosleep said, being able to snipe the entire game wouldn't be a challenge at all, and I bet that almost everyone who plays on insanity do it because they enjoy a challenge and other modes just don't do it. I played ME1 exactly 4 times. I got bored of it on my 3rd playthrough. Why? Wasn't because of the story, which a liked a lot. Was because my lvl 60 adept wasn't part of the game anymore. To put this on MMO terms, he was a GM using kill commands on every single enemy in sight. And since I didn't like to play a god, I was forced to not use singularity or lift. So in order to enjoy ME1 I had to stop playing an adept as it should be, a class that could control the battlefield. I didn't like it, so I did another playthrough to set the cannon choices I wanted and never played it again. A perfect example of how overpowered the adept was, my last fight with Saren wasn't actually a fight. Singularity doesn't work on him, but lift does. He spend the whole fight floating in the air in the same spot. All I had to do was fire my unlimited ammo gun that never overheated. The fight that ended the game completely trivialized by one ability that doesn't have restritions...

Limited ammo ADDS strategy to the game. You might not like it, but it does. Answer this: with infinite ammo, what strategy will you infiltrator use to kill enemies? Snipe to the head will solve pretty much everything, no thinking needed. You have limited ammo, how do you kill enemies? A few will be the same way, but you can no longer do it to every single enemy the game throws at you. You have to adapt your playstile. That is strategy, you adapt your ways to counter the ways of the enemies. Strategy isn't using brute force to go through fights.

I don't get why you are so upset anyway, I mean, you want to make entire rooms of enemies fly? Reduce difficulty. No one forces you to play at harder modes if that is such a "pain" for you (pain because I lacked a better word). If you read the difficulty descriptions you will see the game was not made to be played at hardcore or insanity. Those modes are made to people who want a challenge, and like I said in my earlier post, CC an entire room of enemies doesn't leave much room for an increase challenge unless the ability to do that is reduced.

EDIT: forget to say, if you really insist on playing insanity, you can always change a setting in the coalesced.ini file (think that's the name, never modded the game myself) to make biotics works on protected enemies. Don't know if its possible on Xbox, so if you play on it you better look on the mod 360 thread.

Modifié par Irzhen, 20 novembre 2010 - 08:52 .

[Sparrow44]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

sparrow,

....just as you prefer to play a soldier-adept, i prefer to play an adept-adept. we all have our own opinions of what ME should be. i base mine more off ME1. you base yours off ME2. but you didnt answer my question tho. you just gave me excuses why an adept doesnt play as an adept with enemy protections. name another class that doesnt play as that class was intended to play, because of enemy protections.

i just hope ME3 is more along the lines of the game ME1 gave us, rather then ME2: episode 2.

There are different ways of playing adepts same as all classes but if you wish to play adept like the ones in ME1 then it is not going to be the same experience. Never played Adept on ME1 although I did enjoy ME1 Vanguards which are radically different than their ME2 counterparts; point is, is despite not playing the same as they did in the first game I still enjoy 'em as much thanks to the new combat system.

I'm not trying to cause disparity between the classes from each game, I'm just saying that just because they're not like the Adepts you enjoyed playing as in ME1 doesn't mean they're in any way gimped in ME2.

[Miss Yuna of Atlanta]

I think he's just angry because he can't be Niftu Cal, personally.

Pff. Fat chance anybody could be as beastly as that guy. Niftu Cal is one tough badass.

[Sparrow44]

Niftu Cal ain't got nothin' on my Adept-Shep!



But seriously the one little thing that I'd want for an Adept is the 30% cooldown reduction a Sentinel can get with their evolved passive, an Adept should be able to match a Sentinel cooldown-wise if both can utilize biotics...should they not?