962 réponses à ce sujet

[Ahglock]

ryoldschool wrote...

Ahglock wrote...

I use shift pause frequently, I suspect if used a xbox controller I'd use it more. But I doubt it would be that big of a deal.

You know if they had made shockwave effective vs shields much of this would be solved.

1. Shockwave would not suck. And given it multiple pulses it kind of fits for being effective vs shields. Currently on a adept it is the ignored power, on the vanguard it is the power you put 2 levels into so you can get a real power.
2. The adept could be what the adept preview implied and be a pure power user even on insanity.(Yes you can on insanity now, but it is a pain)

This has been mentioned a bunch of times, but the problem on xbox is using squad powers.  You can assign one power from each squad member to a "leg" of the d-pad.  However, pressing said d-pad is also a positioning command so you have to be motionless to use that.  This is what makes combos a problem without the powerwheel on xbox.

Sure and that is zippy.  But my point is I use shift pause or on the xbox the powerwheel all the time so it would not effect my gameplay much. 

[Irzhen]

Can't imagine how I would play an adept on xbox, I hate pausing the game in the middle of the action just to use one power. I usually have singularity, throw/pull, stasis and warp on the hotkeys, the rest is for squadmates powers. I rarely use medigel, even when all I'm the only one left, so I figured it wouldn't make much sense to use an hotkey for it. Throw/pull I change according to missions or what I feel like using more. Can't imagine how I would play an adept with only 3 hotkeys.

[Ahglock]

sinosleep wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote..

your saying by taking away the adepts biotics, the game becomes more strategic? which is essentially what enemy protections are for, to take away the very reason why im playing an adept. i just not in agreement with that sort of limitation.

more importantly, you mentioned the ammo system change creates strategy too? the point of an infiltrator is to snipe. does it make sense to you at all why a snipeing specialist only carries a max of 10 sniper bullets with them? or isnt that some gameplay design that only limits what the classes actual funtion is?

Being able to snipe through the entire game would be like auto-pilot. Due to the infiltrator's passive it would be WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY to easy to cakewalk the game if sniper ammo wasn't an issue.

If you had real time sniping I wouldn't have a problem, but when your passive grants you massive slow down at no real time cost (no cool down it's a passive) it has to be balanced some how.

With regards to adepts

Interesting quote, but  http://masseffect.bi.../classes/adept/

says the exact oppsoite.  It may not have ended up that way, but being a pure caster seems to have been the intent, maybe a failed one but the intent.  and since it was advertised as being that way it is not surprising that some people are disapointed that it did not occur. 

I think in the video the adept fires his gun once when on the walway for the thane recruitemnt test, and that is quick and easy to miss.  Wanting that kind of gameplay does not seem odd to me.  And it is there on normal, just falls apart on higher levels of difficulty. 

Modifié par Ahglock, 22 novembre 2010 - 12:30 .

[sinosleep]

You answered yourself though, the two aren't contradictions. For one, being the best class at defeating enemies without firing a shot does not necessarily make it the best tactic. Just like the fact that the Kansas City Chiefs have the best running game in football doesn't mean they should run the ball on 3rd and 15.



And like you said ON NORMAL, the adept can easily be played without using weapons, and being as the same dev that mentioned that in the class video has repeatedly said those videos are in reference to normal difficulty than that's not an issue either.



On insanity it can also be done, it's just not the most efficient way of going about things. Frankly, the way I see it Shepard using weapons throughout combat regardless of class is a given. Think about it, they specifically went out of their way to include location based damage and 1:1 statless accuracy regardless of class. If that doesn't tell you that they moved away from pure caster classes considering that in the previous game caster class had to sacrifice weapons and accuracy with them in order to dump points into their other abilities then I don't know what to tell you.

[kstarler]

sinosleep wrote...

On insanity it can also be done, it's just not the most efficient way of going about things. 

Every time you post a video, it makes me happy Sinosleep.

[sinosleep]

Thanks man.

[EKozski]

Another great video. Thank you!

[khevan]

I distinctly remember firing my weapons in ME1 quite often, as much or more than I was casting powers. I, personally, have physics issues with my copy of ME2 that makes the Adept unplayable, but for people to complain that the Adept has to use guns in ME2...this confuses me, because you had to use guns as an Adept in ME1. The only real difference that I see is that the ME2 Adept needs to be more strategic in power usage, because one singularity plus one lift doesn't lock down an entire room like it did in ME1.



Just my two cents, and yes, I'm mostly referring to Hardcore and Insanity play in ME2.

[Miss Yuna of Atlanta]

I kind of miss Lift. Pull just isn't the same.

[Ahglock]

sinosleep wrote...

You answered yourself though, the two aren't contradictions. For one, being the best class at defeating enemies without firing a shot does not necessarily make it the best tactic. Just like the fact that the Kansas City Chiefs have the best running game in football doesn't mean they should run the ball on 3rd and 15.

And like you said ON NORMAL, the adept can easily be played without using weapons, and being as the same dev that mentioned that in the class video has repeatedly said those videos are in reference to normal difficulty than that's not an issue either.

On insanity it can also be done, it's just not the most efficient way of going about things. Frankly, the way I see it Shepard using weapons throughout combat regardless of class is a given. Think about it, they specifically went out of their way to include location based damage and 1:1 statless accuracy regardless of class. If that doesn't tell you that they moved away from pure caster classes considering that in the previous game caster class had to sacrifice weapons and accuracy with them in order to dump points into their other abilities then I don't know what to tell you.

Yes.  But if you hype the ability to do so in advertising , why should anyone be surprised that people are disapointed that it does not live up to expectations.  It is like telling people don't be upset about getting hosed at the car delaer, it was in the small print.  People saw the advertising that said you can do X, they got the game and it was you can do X but.. 

They were not expecting the but part of the equation and are disapointed.  And while they removed class based accuracy with weapons, they had different weapons by class.  The adept had the smallest range of weapons, so again it is not that hard to see how people might think using them could be a small to non-existent part of the class.  And while it is possible on insanity to do so as you showed and quite frankly it is pretty much how I played my first time through on insanity due to me inititally being a really crappy shot in a 3rd person shooter.  It is very much not intended to be played that way and comes across as a sure you can, but...

[Ahglock]

khevan wrote...

I distinctly remember firing my weapons in ME1 quite often, as much or more than I was casting powers. I, personally, have physics issues with my copy of ME2 that makes the Adept unplayable, but for people to complain that the Adept has to use guns in ME2...this confuses me, because you had to use guns as an Adept in ME1. The only real difference that I see is that the ME2 Adept needs to be more strategic in power usage, because one singularity plus one lift doesn't lock down an entire room like it did in ME1.

Just my two cents, and yes, I'm mostly referring to Hardcore and Insanity play in ME2.

I fired my pisotol all the time in ME1 as a adept.  I'd lift people and my squadmates would be shooting walls so if I wanted them dead I had to shoot.  Warp did not seem like an effective attack for that.  I rarely shot first though, it was kind of like an execution as they floated helplessly in air.  It doe snot really bother me that I shoot a lot in ME2, I like shooting guns.  But it does not surprise me either that some are btohered by it. 

[sinosleep]

Ahglock wrote...

Yes.  But if you hype the ability to do so in advertising , why should anyone be surprised that people are disapointed that it does not live up to expectations.  It is like telling people don't be upset about getting hosed at the car delaer, it was in the small print.  People saw the advertising that said you can do X, they got the game and it was you can do X but.. 

They were not expecting the but part of the equation and are disapointed.  And while they removed class based accuracy with weapons, they had different weapons by class.  The adept had the smallest range of weapons, so again it is not that hard to see how people might think using them could be a small to non-existent part of the class.  And while it is possible on insanity to do so as you showed and quite frankly it is pretty much how I played my first time through on insanity due to me inititally being a really crappy shot in a 3rd person shooter.  It is very much not intended to be played that way and comes across as a sure you can, but...

Even with only two weapons, they had the pistol (WRECKS armor) and the smg (WRECKS shields and barriers) in addition to heavy weapons (WRECKS EVERYTHING) so that's a non-factor as well being as they had all defenses covered. Fact of the matter is if people hyped themselves into thinking that a game which clearly was putting a far more effort into the shooting aspects of the franchise was going to be primarily played WITHOUT guns they have no one to blame but themselves.

The football equation was spot on, just becuase the chiefs have the best runing game in football doesn't mean they should run the ball on 3rd and 15.

And on that note I'm done replying to general ME 2 type comments unless you want to hit me up through PM. THIS thread isn't about that. This thread is for a) showing off cool adept gameplay b)asking and answering GAMEPLAY related adept questions.

How about we get back on those topics and leave the rest of the stuff to PMs or other threads.

Modifié par sinosleep, 22 novembre 2010 - 08:29 .

[incinerator950]

I find myself using Dominate after unlocking it, but apart from that, I still think Warp Ammo or Energy Drain are musts.

[Kronner]

incinerator950 wrote...

I find myself using Dominate after unlocking it, but apart from that, I still think Warp Ammo or Energy Drain are musts.

Why? Warp ammo offers very little bonus (relatively).
And Energy Drain boosting biotic barrier makes no sense despite the fact that it works

Have you tried Stasis? Barrier is not too shabby either. I think Boz uses these two the most.

[incinerator950]

Kronner wrote...

incinerator950 wrote...

I find myself using Dominate after unlocking it, but apart from that, I still think Warp Ammo or Energy Drain are musts.

Why? Warp ammo offers very little bonus (relatively).
And Energy Drain boosting biotic barrier makes no sense despite the fact that it works

Have you tried Stasis? Barrier is not too shabby either. I think Boz uses these two the most.

No, and as to Barrier, I prefer Tech Armor in a Sentinel.  My experience with Barrier is that it's a temp fix for when you're about to die, personally I'd rather have Energy Drain.

Warp Ammo is very nice, adding more damage to your guns.  It's damage amplifies when enemies are under Singularity, Pull, and maybe Throw/Shockwave.

[sinosleep]

It's only singularity and pull and they die so quickly at that point that the added damage is rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Particularly when enemies in a singularity or pull are generally warp bombs in waiting. The only class I think warp ammo is useful for is infiltrators in that it can save you a widow shot against scions/harbinger/insert X barrier/armor using high hit point enemies.

Modifié par sinosleep, 22 novembre 2010 - 11:04 .

[Ahglock]

I got to say it is fun to see how much changes. Soon after this game came out warp ammo was thought to be the best bonus power since sliced bread. Now it is okay in certain circumstances. Some of that is due to new powers coming out, but a lot of it is due to people learning more of the inner workings of the game instead of thinking something is effective through observation. I always took reeve which again back then was seen to be one of the best powers out there, now for adepts at least not so much.

[SonofMacPhisto]

I'm thinking about an NG+ Adept with AR training on Hardcore.  I'd like to use this build:

Pull Field
Heavy Warp
1pt Throw
Bastion
Heavy Singularity
Deep Stasis

Weapon loadout will be Predator, Locust (once I get it) and the Mattock.  Arc Projector will be the Heavy, unless the mission has a big baddie, then it's the Cain.

Thoughts?

Modifié par SonofMacPhisto, 25 novembre 2010 - 01:18 .

[The Spamming Troll]

you dont like the phalanx? its a tought choice for me with bonus weapons on th adept. the GPS is jsut a fun gun to use, but having a sniper rifle can be nice for adding some range to biotics. ive found the viper is basically the mattoc kwith a scope so im leaning sniper training. the locust is just too good to need another medium ranged weapons anyways.

has anyone found which stasis is the better stasis? i always picked enhanced because i thought it was more effective.

NICKjnp wrote...

Miss Yuna of Atlanta wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

im stuck with 3 hotkeys for the xbox. imagin my frustration!

I've never played Mass Effect 2
on the Xbox. I imagine it'd be one hell of a headache, though. I mean,
I could see it being okay if you're a Soldier, maybe, but an
Adept? Frakkin' forget it.

It is fine playing at
adept on the 360.  I have throw, warp and singulairty hot keyed.  The
other powers I prefer to puase and use so that I can make sure I'm
targeting the correct enemy when I use them.  So no problems playing on
the 360.

its tough playing with 3 hotkeys. especially for the gol darn tootin adept. i basicaly only use 3 abilities becuase i figure itd be easier to to just use pull rahter then go into the powerwheel, and use throw, shockwave or whatever else.

im gonna mod my 360 save to give an adept stasis, singularity, warp, warp ammo, and dominate. it should be awesome. if anyone has any pointers let me know.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 25 novembre 2010 - 03:23 .

[Ahglock]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

you dont like the phalanx? its a tought choice for me with bonus weapons on th adept. the GPS is jsut a fun gun to use, but having a sniper rifle can be nice for adding some range to biotics. ive found the viper is basically the mattoc kwith a scope so im leaning sniper training. the locust is just too good to need another medium ranged weapons anyways.

I hate the phalanx.  I can't hit anything with it.  For some reason a laser sight in a 3rd person shooter throws me off and I miss all the time.  Also both it and the hand cannon fire too slow.  If I could hit with it I am sure it would be an awesome gun, I'd probably have ot hit like 6 or 7 times with the base gun to equal one shot from the phalanx.  The base gun does crap damage but I can fire it as fast and as accurately as the mattock. 

I'd liekly go sniper rifle if the zoom aim thing did not happen with biotics.  That irritates me so much UI wont take it ever again. 

Modifié par Ahglock, 25 novembre 2010 - 06:57 .

[Sparrow44]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

has anyone found which stasis is the better stasis? i always picked enhanced because i thought it was more effective.

I pick enhanced stasis over the deep version. 9 seconds duration is long enough for me to take out a large enemy (YMIRS) and take out smaller foes, once stasis has lifted I can trap 'em with it again for near enough the same duration with enhanced and take out any stragglers.

Stasis in some ways trivialises fights, but for my playstyle it means my Adept isnt always hiding in cover whenever a heavily defended enemy approaches allowing me to play a bit more aggresively and take out enemies faster. Never really exploit the stasis damage bug as I tend to cast it on enemies furthest away to focus on closer ones.

Very reliable bonus power for my Adept.

[Irzhen]

I always take the deep version, because I usually don't stasis the same enemy more than 3 times. I usually use it to take out one dangerous enemy (big or charging one) and have more time to take out the smaller ones. The 12 seconds durations is better for that than the 9 seconds since it gives me more 3 seconds which can be useful when powers are used on every cd. After the first stasis wears out, most smallers ones are dead or without defenses, easy targets for the cc of an adept, and I can focus on the really dangerous ones. Sometimes I have to use more than one stasis, but it's extremely rare to not have most enemies cced when the third stasis wears out. And on fights with more than one of those enemies I can just cycle stasis through them (the only fights where I remember doing that is on the 2 YMIRS on garrus loyalty mission, and there it isn't really use anyway, it just speeds up things because I can spend more time out of cover, and the 2 Scions on Horizon)

Although I must say, I always take stasis as bonus power but don't use it that much, the increased damage bug ruins a bit why I like insanity, and while I try not to shoot them while they fall, can't say the same for my squadmates, I dont' micro manage them good enough to stop them from shooting whatever they want.

[sinosleep]

Irzhen wrote...

I always take the deep version, because I usually don't stasis the same enemy more than 3 times. I usually use it to take out one dangerous enemy (big or charging one) and have more time to take out the smaller ones. The 12 seconds durations is better for that than the 9 seconds since it gives me more 3 seconds which can be useful when powers are used on every cd. After the first stasis wears out, most smallers ones are dead or without defenses, easy targets for the cc of an adept, and I can focus on the really dangerous ones. Sometimes I have to use more than one stasis, but it's extremely rare to not have most enemies cced when the third stasis wears out. And on fights with more than one of those enemies I can just cycle stasis through them (the only fights where I remember doing that is on the 2 YMIRS on garrus loyalty mission, and there it isn't really use anyway, it just speeds up things because I can spend more time out of cover, and the 2 Scions on Horizon)
Although I must say, I always take stasis as bonus power but don't use it that much, the increased damage bug ruins a bit why I like insanity, and while I try not to shoot them while they fall, can't say the same for my squadmates, I dont' micro manage them good enough to stop them from shooting whatever they want.

Pretty much word for word what I was going to type, the pros, the cons, and the inadvertant glitching that results in me rarely using the power.

[Bozorgmehr]

I have been in Stasis for a while  

I will not reply to any post that are not related to gameplay - there are other places to discuss the pros and cons of the ME2 defense system etc. I would appreciate to keep the discussion on topic; about the things an Adept and/or biotics can do - not what they cannot do. Thank you.

sinosleep wrote...

I love the Jack/Samara pull-bot combo on my caster sentinels but I cast so many singularities that having more than one pull-bot seems unnecessary on my adepts. I mean I tend to cast singularity first off, shoot off or strip defenses, then warp bomb right off that first singularity. Pull only really comes into play if there's already a dude walking around with no defenses.

Jack & Samara are excellent squadmates for an Adept too. Particularly with the GPS equipped; shoot enemy defenses; follow with either Jack's or Samara's Pull; and finish with Throw (or Warp when there are more enemies in the detonation radius). Throw is an excellent finisher (Heavy Throw is best); throwing enemies of ledges will instakill them; and throwing enemies against the ceiling will instakill them too. You'll need to Pull enemies first and aim Throw to hit them from below (aiming at enemy feet will do the trick) - very effective way to take out single (powerful) enemies fast.

Miss Yuna of Atlanta wrote...

I wish I could hotkey more than eight powers. Usually I try to have all of my active powers on hotkeys along with medi-gel, and the squad mates get whatever's left. Problem is, with my build, there's only two slots left over after all that, so I can only really map two squad mate powers. Most squad mates Isee have two active powers that I use. For my builds to work I basically have to bring the ones that only have one active power, like Grunt and Zaeed(screw Inferno Grenade).

Try to use the squadbuttons (Q and E on pc - default) to direct squadmates. Playing Adept, who has 4 + 1 bonus power (I don't use Shockwave) adding medkits that leaves only 2 squadpowers for hotkeys. But you can also use the Q and E buttons to activate powers:

Miranda for example can use Overload and Warp, using the Q and E button on an enemy with shields will always
force Miranda to use Overload (no need to use hotkeys for this) and she will use Warp against armor and barriers. Only squadmates who can use multiple powers can be troublesome. Jack for example will use either Pull or Shockwave on unprotected enemies (Q and E) so if you need her Pull to setup warpbombs, makes sure to hotkey Pull, because it can be frustrating if she uses Shockwave instead (I have no idea how to predictwhich power squadies like Jack will use, hotkeys are the only way to make sure they behave the way you want).

I usually hotkey only one squadmate's power and use the squadbuttons to strip defenses - Samara will use Reave against armor and barriers; Miranda will always use Overload against shields - so I hotkey Samara's Pull and Miranda's Warp to warpbomb whenever needed; squadbuttons are used against defenses. This will allow the use of all powers without pausing. Remember using powers this way only works against the proper bars, it doesn't work if powers are marked red in the power wheel. Jack will not use Shockwave if target has some protection left for example, you need to activate Shockwave manually.

incinerator950 wrote...

I prefer Tech Armor in a Sentinel.  My experience with Barrier is that it's a temp fix for when you're about to die, personally I'd rather have Energy Drain.

Barrier is superior to Tech Armor in both the additional defenses (+100% instead of +75% shield; Heavy Barrier vs Assault Armor) and usability (no animation; Barrier will always work, Tech Armor doesn't). Barrier isn't just a lifesaver. It will allow more casting and shooting before taking cover; it allows greater movement on the battlefield (you can take a lot of damage before barrier goes down) and since you can activate it before battle, it doesn't influence cooldown at all (it does when used in combat, just like Tech Armor btw).

Anyone who likes Tech Armor should like Barrier too; sure it doesn't have the nice explosion and the shield boost (like Assault Armor), but it offers great protection, always works and it looks better imho.

sinosleep wrote...

It's only singularity and pull and they die so quickly at that point that the added damage is rather insignificant in the grand scheme of things. Particularly when enemies in a singularity or pull are generally warp bombs in waiting. The only class I think warp ammo is useful for is infiltrators in that it can save you a widow shot against scions/harbinger/insert X barrier/armor using high hit point enemies.

Indeed. I never found ammo powers very useful for Adepts. Once you get the bonus weapon you should already have the important upgrades. This will make (most) weapons very effective against defenses (the extra ammo power damage is very small) and the CC effects (panic / overheat) are pretty redundant since Adepts can unleash all their biotic powers when CC is needed. It isn't bad to use ammo powers, but it won't make much of a difference either.

SonofMacPhisto wrote...

I'm thinking about an NG+ Adept with AR training on Hardcore.  I'd like to use this build:

Pull Field
Heavy Warp
1pt Throw
Bastion
Heavy Singularity
Deep Stasis

Weapon
loadout will be Predator, Locust (once I get it) and the Mattock.  Arc Projector will be the Heavy, unless the mission has a big baddie, then it's the Cain.

Thoughts?

Looks like an excellent build though I would go for Heavy Throw and leave Stasis at one point. Maybe you want to respec for missions facing multiple YMIRs for example. But overall I don't think the extra duration is worth it. You can easily test this yourself. Just leave Stasis at rank 1 and play a mission; if duration isn't long enough, go to rank 2 etc. I tried this myself and learned that one point was more than enough for me.

Irzhen wrote...

Although I must say, I always take stasis as bonus power but don't use it that much, the increased damage bug
ruins a bit why I like insanity, and while I try not to shoot them whilethey fall, can't say the same for my squadmates, I dont' micro manage them good enough to stop them from shooting whatever they want.

Yeah the Stasis bug is bad, but I still think it suits the Adept class well. They're the only class without an 'I Win' button (AR, Charge, Cloak, Tech Armor and to a lesser extend Drones - though they do make boss fight a joke). It's up to the player how often (s)he uses Stasis. I prefer to use it against stuff that cannot be dealt with using other biotic powers (YMIRs and Geth Primes) and only to disable them long enough to deal with lesser foes first.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 26 novembre 2010 - 01:32 .

[Kronner]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Barrier is superior to Tech Armor in both the additional defenses (+100% instead of +75% shield; Heavy Barrier vs Assault Armor) and usability (no animation; Barrier will always work, Tech Armor doesn't). Barrier isn't just a lifesaver.

Seriously Boz? Assault Armor blows Barrier away. The only thing Barrier has on AA is the ability to activate it even when stunned.

Other than that this is not even fair to the poor Barrier.

Assaut Armor offers better protection, because +25% shields is not even close to automatic and instant 50% shield recharge once AA goes down. Assault Armor offers solid CC, Barrier offers nothing here.

Modifié par Kronner, 26 novembre 2010 - 03:04 .