962 réponses à ce sujet

[termokanden]

AR is probably the better choice. I still prefer shotguns though.

[NICKjnp]

termokanden wrote...

Blue subs

Why not max Shockwave if you're going to be using it a lot?

iPhone....it has autofill.  Sometimes it likes to put in words I didn't intend.  As for maxing Shockwave...I don't because I would prefer to max throw.  You can max it but heavy throw is much better.

[NICKjnp]

Korjyan wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

@ Korjyan: Yes, Sentinels are easier to play on Insanity, their (Assault) Armor makes them very hard to kill.

It's not just the Sentinels though. I never ran into that many problems (aka deaths) with any of the other 5 classes. I can rush through Insanity with all of the other classes. Not as aggressively as with the Assault Sentinel but still way faster and more aggressively than with the Adept. The again I've played the other classes more often so that might also be a factor. Well, who would have thought that after more than ~20 Insanity playthroughs I still find a challenge in this game by choosing the Adept.

I'm still not sure about the weapons training... Assault Rifle or Shotgun? I usually picked shotguns for all my characters but with the Adept I'm not so sure because I hang back more often. But this might only because I still have to learn how to play it better. Unfortunately I can't watch most the videos posted on the first page because Youtube refuses to let me watch them due to copyright crap (probably because people tend to put in their own music). Any recommendations why I should go for AR or SG (like things I don't think about right now like because I don't know the Adept class as good as the other classes yet). Also note that I never use Heavy Weapons (I edit them out) because I like to switch weapons fast (I'm not a fan of pausing the game) and also they look bad on the back of the character model.

I suggest Assault Rifle training.  The only time I would suggest Shotgun training is if you are going to play an adept that is a Bastion/Heavy Singularity/Heavy Barrier adept.  Otherwise you don't want to get too close.

[Ahglock]

NICKjnp wrote...

Korjyan wrote...

Bozorgmehr wrote...

@ Korjyan: Yes, Sentinels are easier to play on Insanity, their (Assault) Armor makes them very hard to kill.

It's not just the Sentinels though. I never ran into that many problems (aka deaths) with any of the other 5 classes. I can rush through Insanity with all of the other classes. Not as aggressively as with the Assault Sentinel but still way faster and more aggressively than with the Adept. The again I've played the other classes more often so that might also be a factor. Well, who would have thought that after more than ~20 Insanity playthroughs I still find a challenge in this game by choosing the Adept.

I'm still not sure about the weapons training... Assault Rifle or Shotgun? I usually picked shotguns for all my characters but with the Adept I'm not so sure because I hang back more often. But this might only because I still have to learn how to play it better. Unfortunately I can't watch most the videos posted on the first page because Youtube refuses to let me watch them due to copyright crap (probably because people tend to put in their own music). Any recommendations why I should go for AR or SG (like things I don't think about right now like because I don't know the Adept class as good as the other classes yet). Also note that I never use Heavy Weapons (I edit them out) because I like to switch weapons fast (I'm not a fan of pausing the game) and also they look bad on the back of the character model.

I suggest Assault Rifle training.  The only time I would suggest Shotgun training is if you are going to play an adept that is a Bastion/Heavy Singularity/Heavy Barrier adept.  Otherwise you don't want to get too close.

I prefer shotgun and I don't take barrier at all.  SMG handles shields at long enough range in most fights if I can't get close, pistol handles armor, squadies handle the defenses even better, pull can hit virtually anywhere so I'm good.  And whenever singularity is pinning people enough or I have enough cover I can close in and use the shotgun for fun and profit.  Currently I have stasis as my bonus power, but my next run I think I'm not taking one and puting the point into shockwave, heck I might max it and put the point into throw.  I basically just use stasis as my kill Ymir mech quick button, and I don't really need that. 

This isn't to say that the assault rifle especially if you have access to the mattock isn't awesome.  It is just I am fine with the default weapons and I consider the bonus weapon gravy.  So since it is just more of a fun thing I go shotgun. 

[NICKjnp]

@Bozorgmehr: Good to see you are giving Shockwave a go.

[XCPTNL]

I'm leaning more towards the AR right now. Although I don't think I will use the Mattock then (also I have it) but the Geth Rifle or the maybe the Vindicator. The Mattock is a great weapon but I don't feel like it fits the Adept's playstyle. I can see myself using it for specific parts of the game though.



I've got another question about Nemesis/Bastion: what's actually the point of Nemesis? There's the 15% damage bonus... but doesn't it only affect Warp? I'm not using Warp that much due to it's cooldown and I really like the Pull/Throw combination a lot. I usually use a squaddie's Unstable Warp for the Warp Bombs and the Nemesis bonus doesn't affect the squadmate's warp or does it? (because it connects with my previously casted biotic power). So the way I see it right now I get more benefits from Bastion (more health, more Paragon/Renegade, longer duration for Singularity and Pull). Please tell me what I don't see here because so far I've seen much more Nemesis Adepts than Bastion Adepts.



And another question: is there any way to use a squadmate's Pull better? Because most of the time when I cast it the enemy behind cover is floating against the cover or it doesn't even hit. Is there any way to arc the Pull of your squadmates or something like that so it works more like your own Pull?

[JaegerBane]

Korjyan wrote...
I've got another question about Nemesis/Bastion: what's actually the point of Nemesis? There's the 15% damage bonus... but doesn't it only affect Warp? I'm not using Warp that much due to it's cooldown and I really like the Pull/Throw combination a lot. I usually use a squaddie's Unstable Warp for the Warp Bombs and the Nemesis bonus doesn't affect the squadmate's warp or does it? (because it connects with my previously casted biotic power). So the way I see it right now I get more benefits from Bastion (more health, more Paragon/Renegade, longer duration for Singularity and Pull). Please tell me what I don't see here because so far I've seen much more Nemesis Adepts than Bastion Adepts.

Two main things:

The Nemesis evolution apparently has some effect on the physics of different biotic powers. The devs haven't really said anything about this, but aparently biotic/power damage increases add a degree to the force of the impact, meaning stronger throws etc. This is primarily anecdotal, however - there's been no discussion from the devs, at all - about how and what specifically the biotic damage upgrades boost biotics, but I and a few others on the boards have noticed the physics effects pack a little more punch. Unfortunately, due to the nature of the effects, they're extremely difficult to quantify.

Secondly, the Nemesis boost affects all of your powers, including whatever bonus powers you have. So if you've plumped for Energy Drain your Warps and Warp Explosions are not the only ones doing 15% more damage. That alone is my reason for taking the evolution over Bastion. I don't know whether it affects any squad ammo powers you've taken from your teammates, however.

My biggest issue with Bastion is that I can't ever recall a single situation where having my Pull Fields and Singularities last a second or so longer has ever actually translated into anything useful,.

[termokanden]

Indeed, the extra duration seems rather useless. Perhaps if you chose something like Flashbang as a bonus power it would make sense.



Note also that if you take an ammo power as a bonus power, it benefits from power damage bonuses. Don't think it does if it's a squad ammo power from someone else (as it's not really YOU using the power).

[Sparrow44]

Nemesis benefits bonus powers like Reave or Energy Drain and aside from Warp I think power damage may affect Singularity when cast on a protected mob as at later levels I've noticed it drains shields fairly fast compared to lower levels, but like Jaeger has said it's hard to tell if it counts towards it or not.

As for Bastion it definitely benefits Singularity especially the Heavy evolution when it comes to holding tougher enemies (very handy to pin Harby down with). Stasis would also benefit if you're evolving to Deep version to get more duration, that and a Singularity active at once and you can hold multiple enemies longer.

[termokanden]

One thing I'm still not so sure about, but hopefully someone knows this. Does the duration increase from Bastion (or also Mechanic for that matter) actually increase the damage done by Reave (/Incinerate)?



It could mean they simply increase the duration but not the damage (so the Reave stun and Incinerate "I'm burning" effects would be longer), or they actually do 15% more damage. Then there's the fact that all damage is done immediately against defenses. So even if the damage is increased by a duration increase, would that also help here?



The reason I'm asking is I had an idea of an engineer that uses Incinerate a lot (so damage there is useful) and then locks targets down with Neural Shock. There it seems to make sense for insanity to have a duration increase. If it also increases Incinerate damage, all you lose is the bonus 15% for Overload, but you gain valuable stun duration.

[Bozorgmehr]

Korjyan wrote...

Unfortunately I can't watch most the videos posted on the first page because Youtube refuses to let me watch them due to copyright crap (probably because people tend to put in their own music).

Have you tried UltraSurf ? Just execute, restart browser and you've got a US IP address. None of my videos are blocked in the US so you should be able to watch them. Beware of lag though (your internet connection will use a proxy server). Wait til the streaming is finished and you should be alright.

I'm leaning more towards the AR right now. Although I don't think I will use the Mattock then (also I have it) but the Geth Rifle or the maybe the Vindicator. The Mattock is a great weapon but I don't feel like it fits the Adept's playstyle. I can see myself using it for specific parts of the game though.

AR is always a solid choice. The Mattock will net the highest DoT and the Vindicator is nice too. The GPR is great against shields and barriers but rather weak against armor. My favorite weapon is the Geth Plasma Shotgun; it can one-shot defenses at almost any range (kinda like a SG sniper rifle, but without scope). Perfect for Adepts, shoot = shield gone = biotic playtime.

You can use a 100% biotic squad. Jack and Samara/Morinth (with 25% cd reduction). Shoot GPS > use Jack's Pull > Shep uses Heavy Throw > shoot > use Samara/Morith Pull > Throw. Rinse and repeat. You can clear levels very fast and by using squadmate's Pull you can almost bypass enemy counter fire altogether. (that's the advantage of the squad version, Shep's powers can be arced but you've to wait for the projectile to reach target before effects kicks in - meanwhile you're taking damage)

I always go for Bastion. The 15% power damage bonus is more or less redundant. The one thing that matters most is insta-stripping. If your Warp can remove enemy barrier/armor (Vorcha, Husks, Collector Drones, LOKI's etc) you're good. This means your Warp explosions will also insta-kill all ragdolled enemies. 15% isn't going to change anything significant in terms of gameplay (you'll need the same number of warpbombs to kill powerful enemies like Krogan, Vanguards, Collector Assassins/Guardians etc).

Extra duration is great. There's a 20% duration penalty (all powers) when playing on Insanity and the short duration plus long cooldown are the most important reason Adepts are relatively weak early on. This is why I always max Bastion first and for me the +20% duration research upgrade is on par with the 20% cd reduction research upgrade. There should have been 2 biotic damage upgrades available before Horizon IMHO.

Bastion improves Pull's duration and Singularity's duration & damage drain. Bonus powers like Stasis, Reave and Dominate receive bonus too. This are your CC powers, anything that will hold enemies longer will make life at the fornt line easier. And there's the 100% (instead of 70%) par/ren bonus. I never noticed anything using Nemesis (you can easily test this yourself, play with and without the Blood Dragon Armor - it has the same bonus).

[termokanden]

My question about Reave/Incinerate is more specific though. Is a 15% damage and a 15% duration increase the same damage-wise (the question goes for both defenses and health)?

[JaegerBane]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
I always go for Bastion. The 15% power damage bonus is more or less redundant. The one thing that matters most is insta-stripping. If your Warp can remove enemy barrier/armor (Vorcha, Husks, Collector Drones, LOKI's etc) you're good. This means your Warp explosions will also insta-kill all ragdolled enemies. 15% isn't going to change anything significant in terms of gameplay (you'll need the same number of warpbombs to kill powerful enemies like Krogan, Vanguards, Collector Assassins/Guardians etc).

If we were purely talking about Warp I'd agree as it only hits one enemy at a time, but for Warp explosions, applying an extra 15% damage to every opponent you catch in the explosion - effectively getting a free shot on anyone in the AoE - isn't really what I'd call redundant. That means less shooting and less powers needed by your squadmates to clean up. It's certainly not going to be a major change, I agree, but when considered under the context of Bastion, which will simply make your Pulls and Singularities last about a second longer - I'm not sure how Nemesis managed to get labelled 'redundant'. Neither evolution is going to have a huge effect - but as I say, if I have to choose between extra damage or letting an enemy float for split second longer, I choose damage.

[Bozorgmehr]

termokanden wrote...

My question about Reave/Incinerate is more specific though. Is a 15% damage and a 15% duration increase the same damage-wise (the question goes for both defenses and health)?

Example: Area Reave (40 dmg for 4 s), 6/6 biotic upgrades:

Nemesis 40 * (1.6 + 0.15) = 70 dmg per second. Duration is 4 - 20% Insanity penalty: 4 * 0.8 * 70 = 224 total damage (duration is 3.2 seconds) 

Bastion 40 * 1.6 = 64 dmg per second. Duration is (4 + 15%) - 20% Insanity penalty: (4 * 1.15) * 0.8 * 64 = 235.52 total damage (duration is 3.68 seconds)

Duration beats Power Damage. 5.14% more damage and CC effects last longer.

Modifié par Bozorgmehr, 24 février 2011 - 09:02 .

[termokanden]

It's a 15% bonus and not a 20% bonus. But yeah if it works that way I'm happy because then I'll have a new build to try out.



However, that's unfortunately not quite the end of it. When you hit defenses instead of health, you do the damage immediately. It's not clear to me if the duration increase helps here.

[sagefic]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
 *snip*
Great videos (this is the 2nd) - I'll add them to the OP with permission when you complete the series.

Loved the voice work, for a moment I thought I was listening to Christina herself. Well done, I'm looking forward to the next.

wow. thanks! that's a compliment that totally made my day.  i'd be honored if you added them to the OP.

oh, and korjyan, i felt the same way about adept at first - i think the adept learning curve is tricky compared to other classes - also, many of the skills don't seem to "work right" until you max them. but by the time you're a solid lvl 15+, if found the difficulty to drop. i was recently playing as a lvl 25 adept to get vid capture, and thought "oh, dang it, this is too easy. i must've left the difficulty back down at casual (i'd been getting footage of messing with difficulty settings). i went to change it and realized i was actually on insanity already. so yeah, adept can be just as deadly, i just think you have to get through the awkward phase of leveling singularity and warp (esp. sing.) to max effectivness.

my 2 cents, anyhow. will be covering that in a vid here soon. 

[jwalker]

sagequeen wrote...

 So hey, someone pointed me this way to post this, hope it's cool with you all.

I'm working on a series of video guides for the adept, sort of as a way to celebrate finishing my insanity run with it. I play Barrier/Bastion, which I understand is a little less typical or popular.

anyhow, link to the first one above (covers intro and look back to me1), finished the second today (me2 gameplay basics and how they affect the adept), got a total of 8 short vids planned (4 min. each, approximately) and if you like, I'll keep you updated.

Anyhow, adept needs more attention and love. just trying to represent. 

Great vids, sage ! And loved the voice over.
I'm looking forward to the rest of the series.

Korjyan wrote...

And another question: is there any way to use a squadmate's Pull better? Because most of the time when I cast it the enemy behind cover is floating against the cover or it doesn't even hit. Is there any way to arc the Pull of your squadmates or something like that so it works more like your own Pull?

I don't think there is. All your squaddies's powers are insta-cast. No way to curve them.

[Bozorgmehr]

termokanden wrote...

It's a 15% bonus and not a 20% bonus. But yeah if it works that way I'm happy because then I'll have a new build to try out.

My bad - corrected.

However, that's unfortunately not quite the end of it. When you hit defenses instead of health, you do the damage immediately. It's not clear to me if the duration increase helps here.

If the target has resistances the damage is done instantly. All DoT powers (including Incendiary Ammo) work like this. In the previous Reave example this results in 224 * 2 = 448 damage against armor and barriers (Nemesis) and 235.52 * 2 = 471 damage (Bastion).

You can test this with Area Reave. At level 30 with 6/6 upgrades and the duration research bonus Area Reave cannot strip defenses instantly (it can at lvl 29 though). You'll need extra damage to insta-strip. Both Nemesis and Bastion will make it work.

[Bozorgmehr]

JaegerBane wrote...

If we were purely talking about Warp I'd agree as it only hits one enemy at a time, but for Warp explosions, applying an extra 15% damage to every opponent you catch in the explosion - effectively getting a free shot on anyone in the AoE - isn't really what I'd call redundant. That means less shooting and less powers needed by your squadmates to clean up. It's certainly not going to be a major change, I agree, but when considered under the context of Bastion, which will simply make your Pulls and Singularities last about a second longer - I'm not sure how Nemesis managed to get labelled 'redundant'. Neither evolution is going to have a huge effect - but as I say, if I have to choose between extra damage or letting an enemy float for split second longer, I choose damage.

All depends on upgrades; before Horizon you can only get one, but after, you can get all 6 upgrades before the DCS mission; at which point +15% damage becomes less useful. Heavy Warp, for example, does 200 damage > 6 Upgrades add 120 damage > Nemesis will add another 30 points. 320 vs 350 (or 640 vs 700 against armor/barrier - only against powerful enemies though, damage multiplier works different when powers damage defenses AND health. There is hardly any difference in health damage between Unstable and Heavy Warp when used on Collector Drones, for example. At level 30 both versions can insta-strip their barriers easily (~450 points strong). When all damage is multiplied, Heavy Warp should do considerable health damage (~200 points, i.e. around half of their total health). It, however, does not. Heavy Warp only removes a tiny piece of their health bar (Unstable a tiny tiny piece).

The extra 30 points damage against shields and health is very small and I'm using ARs or SGs most of the time - for the Vindi, Mattock and the shotguns, 30 points isn't something worth mentioning. Nemesis is not redundant, but I think Bastion is much better. I use Singularity almost exclusively on protected enemies (groups and/or elites/bosses), the extra 1-2 seconds it can hold enemies is pretty nice. It's the difference between using an extra Pull or Throw before it pops for example.

Nemesis sounds cooler than Bastion though, more bad ass

[termokanden]

Alright thanks Bozorgmehr. That was also how I hoped it would work.

[JaegerBane]

Bozorgmehr wrote...
The extra 30 points damage against shields and health is very small and I'm using ARs or SGs most of the time - for the Vindi, Mattock and the shotguns, 30 points isn't something worth mentioning. Nemesis is not redundant, but I think Bastion is much better. I use Singularity almost exclusively on protected enemies (groups and/or elites/bosses), the extra 1-2 seconds it can hold enemies is pretty nice. It's the difference between using an extra Pull or Throw before it pops for example.

My main point is that, while under this sort of scrutiny the 15% damage boost doesn't look that good, put bluntly 15% increase in duration by and large equates to just under a second on most powers. Realistically, when seen in combination with the -20% reduction in duration on such small duration powers, I'm not even sure the difference would even be noticable.

It's not totally clear how exactly the duration works with protected enemies with singularity as they tend to burn out quick, with the difference only noticeable at all between wide and heavy singularity - hence, 15% duration boost may not even make any difference whatsoever. The only other power that Bastion would affect is Pull, which, to be honest, has such a relatively long cooldown (even with the -20%) that any upgrades to the duration on that would be largely cosmetic.

So in conclusion, of all the Adept's powers, it'll only affect two at all and one of them (Pull) will be affected in a largely superfluous fashion. In comparison, My Warps and Warp Explosions both do slightly heavier damage and my physics affects are slightly stronger. I'd have to question how much of any of this is noticable, but the fact of the matter is extra damage will always be useful whereas extra duration will depend largely on circumstance just to offer any advantage at all.

I'd only consider taking Bastion if I had Reave as a bonus power (which is largely pointless on an Adept). We're talking pretty small apples and oranges, but ultimately, my personal style of play tends to be quite fast ad agressive, which a bonus to duration isn't going to have much affect.

Modifié par JaegerBane, 24 février 2011 - 09:44 .

[Bozorgmehr]

I'll guess it's something psychological. I always have the feeling things go smoother with Bastion, but since I started a new Adept run I might as well give Nemesis a go. But at the end of the day it's (likely) not gonna make any major difference. I'm going for a fast playthrough so I don't need the extra par/ren points.

Beware Harbinger, the Reaper's worst nightmare is unleashed. This Asari goddess of revenge  (Geth Shotgun wielding Shockwave Nemesis Adept) will ruin your day!

[NICKjnp]

When I first started I went with Bastion but eventually found that Nemesis fits my playstyle more.

[JaegerBane]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

I'll guess it's something psychological. I always have the feeling things go smoother with Bastion, but since I started a new Adept run I might as well give Nemesis a go. But at the end of the day it's (likely) not gonna make any major difference. I'm going for a fast playthrough so I don't need the extra par/ren points.

Beware Harbinger, the Reaper's worst nightmare is unleashed. This Asari goddess of revenge  (Geth Shotgun wielding Shockwave Nemesis Adept) will ruin your day!

It is primarily psychological, the differences are pretty difficult to notice even if you're playing as background pure caster, let alone a upfront battlecaster

[Bozorgmehr]

termokanden wrote...

Alright thanks Bozorgmehr. That was also how I hoped it would work.

Now that I'm thinking about it, Reave and Incinerate might suffer the duration penalty when used on high rank enemies.

Eric ****nan wrote...

Most duration-based powers that affect enemies (AI Hacking, Pull, Cryo Freeze) have their duration reduced on larger targets.

Small humanoids (Husks, regular Mercs, small Geth) = Full duration
Tougher humanoids (Elite Mercs) = 80%
Krogans, Scions, medium-sized Geth = 70%
Heavy Mechs, Geth Prime = 60%

When Reave and Incinerate are affected, their effects are reduced significantly:

Area Reave against YMIR's armor, 6/6 upgrades, duration research upgrade and Bastion (Insanity): Damage : 40 * 1.6 =  64 for (4 * 1.35) * 0.6 * 0.8 = 2.59 s  ->  total damage (64 * 2.59) * 2 = 332 against armor

Unstable Warp doesn't suffer duration penalty and inflicts (160 * 1.6) * 2 = 512 damage (that's a 54% increase)

Looking at the numbers I doubt Reave suffers duration penalty, but it's worth looking into. A 54% diffference in damage should be easy to spot.