962 réponses à ce sujet

[lolwut666]

I think both are equally easy to use on Insanity.

You don't really have to defense strip yourself with the Adept. Just have a squaddie do it for you.

As for the Vanguards, I found it rather akward to play them in the lower difficulties, because most enemies are sent flying when you Charge them.

[mcsupersport]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

mcsupersport wrote...

@ Locutus
Adepts aren't gimped as you found out, they just take some learning how to play at higher levels. Sort of like how everyone said playing a Vanguard was Suicide at higher levels of difficulty when the game first came out. Everyone expected the overpowered monster that adepts were in ME1 and hated that you actually had to plan and think a bit in ME2. Once you know how to play them they are still monsters, but too many people can't or don't want to try to learn how to play, am talking to the Troll in this last statement.

theres no learning curve for a vangaurd when you move from veteran to harcore tho. thats the problem, not learning how to use an ability apropriately. adepts no doubt need new tactics with one simple difficulty increase but why cant you say the same about the other 5 classes?

Maybe because most of the other classes aren't "power" based classes, they are mostly shooting based classes.  Infiltrator, Soldier, Vanguard all use powers so they can then use guns, but the class would still mostly work without the power, well maybe not the Vanguard, but Infiltrator and Soldier would still work perfectly fine without powers.  Sentinel played in the easiest form is Assault Sentinel and again that is a class you use a power so you can shoot.  Even Engineer is a use a power so you can shoot for the most part, pop drone wait until distraction and then shoot, sometimes you might cryo but you still shoot.  Adept is backwards from every other class in the game, requiring a different "mindset" if you will.  Adept is about using guns so you can use powers(with some exceptions).  Adept will never and should never play like the other classes, because of this fundamental difference in mechanics.  If you made the powers work through defenses it would strengthen the other classes even more, and make the Adept absolutely insanely overpowered.  The ability of the adept to pull, throw, shockwave, explode unprotected enemies is unmatched and if extended to the protected would require a totally different balancing mechanism to prevent making the adept a laughingly easy class to play on the harder difficulties.  If you play to the strengths of the class you will dominate in any game.  The issue you get with Adept in lower difficulties is they are too powerful, making it a cakewalk for anyone who understands how to play the class.  If you really can't handle protections then Bioware gave you 3 differernt levels to play, and reserved the other two for people who want a bit of a challenge to play.  I am thankful that Bioware didn't listen to people like you that want an overpowered god to play and feel good about.

[The Spamming Troll]

every class is easier to use on lower difficulties, thats why your not charging as much as a vangaurd on insanity. not because you arent allowed to like an adept dealing with enemy protections.

i think the difference between me and the last 3 posts is that id rather use my biotics, to use my biotics. while you guys would rather use something else in order to use your biotics. i see no strategy in only being allowed to use two of my 8ish abilities.

people seem to forget the adept isnt the only OP class from ME1. the adept and biotics might have been the most memorable way of being OP but adepts are far from being the best class in terms of being OP.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 07 mai 2011 - 01:05 .

[lolwut666]

Actually, I charge more on the higher difficulties.

Charging on the lower difficulties is awkward.

[The Spamming Troll]

.....thats what i said tho.

 its because not charging is pointless. like not using singularity.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 07 mai 2011 - 01:08 .

[lolwut666]

Oh.

I misunderstood, then.

Sorry.

[mcsupersport]

Name me one class that kills more with their powers than the adept. The powers the adept have are LETHAL, in many ways and to allow them to effect enemies with or without protections would totally unbalance the game and require either a level rebuild or power cool down adjustment that would again radically change the class. If I as an adept can make an enemy float or be thrown in a direction, odds are he is dead very soon after. No other class can say this, not a one. To allow the use of powers on protected enemies would make Insanity like Veteran for the adept, a total cakewalk.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

mcsupersport wrote...

Name me one class that kills more with their powers than the adept. The powers the adept have are LETHAL, in many ways and to allow them to effect enemies with or without protections would totally unbalance the game and require either a level rebuild or power cool down adjustment that would again radically change the class. If I as an adept can make an enemy float or be thrown in a direction, odds are he is dead very soon after. No other class can say this, not a one. To allow the use of powers on protected enemies would make Insanity like Veteran for the adept, a total cakewalk.

Yeah, pretty much.. My last Adept PT was on Veteran. I pretty much just got bored of my Hardcore Engineer PT, jumped into Insanity Adept and started kicking massive butt. Adepts might need to work a little harder to open up enemies, but once you have them in your grip, they're pretty much dead - even at fairly low levels when your powers are weak. All in all not too big a jump from Engineers, IMO, except that Engies still shoot their targets dead 90% of the time.

This doesn't mean I don't welcome the rumored changes coming in ME3 though. I do look forward to being able to use physics-based biotics to break defenses in addition to what we've already got.

[Alamar2078]

I'd like my powers to make a little more sense and sacrifice a little less to the altar of "balance". While I totally get that Shields and Barriers would be good defenses vs. biotics I don't really believe that "just armor" would give much protection from being pushed back [in the case of Throw]. Maybe you don't take damage but the physical effect should occur.

Of course I guess part of Armor could be "stabalizers" but I hope you see my point.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

^Yeah - I think the rumor is that biotics will at the very least be able to dismantle some enemy defenses / armarments / equipment, which is pretty creative, I think. Hopefully it could be even more than that.


Also, on an unrelated note, I'ma gonna adapt Boz's Vanguard Adept build for a new Shep I've been thinking of.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 07 mai 2011 - 01:59 .

[mcsupersport]

^^ Even in ME1 there was armor that increased protections against biotics and even upgrades (Combat Exos IIRC) that further increased the protection against biotic and tech attacks. ME2 simply took this as a read for all armor, and if I was designing armor and knew someone could kill a person with an attack and there was a reasonable way to prevent it, then I would utilize it. So having armor protect against the Mass effect attacks of biotics isn't outside of the lore, you just have to remember to read about it.

To me shields make less since but then having enemies and companions without "armor" in combat was stupid in my book anyway. So I always just take it as read that I am fighting them and have to disable their shields and armor to attack them, even if it only shows one protection.

[Bozorgmehr]

mcsupersport wrote...

I liked the ability to put a Singularity inside the lightning capacitors causing them to discharge as soon as they build up. If you are facing waves of enemy just drop a singularity in the Capacitor closest to the incoming waves and it will hit them every time it can discharge automatically. You just have to remember to wait until the singularity disappears or cast another somewhere else before trying to pass the trapped capacitor, hehehehehe.

LOL, never knew you could do that. Sounds pretty cool and it must be very effective also. What about Sings duration? Does it remain up to 30 seconds or does triggering lightning strikes decreases its duration?

I imagine putting a Singularity in place, move in just outside the lightning strikes and go berserk with other biotic powers. Without shields you can do anything; Slam, Pull, Throw, Shockwave the lot into the storm

[termokanden]

I tried using Singularity directly on the capacitors and it did nothing. Only tried it a couple of times though but it definitely looked like I had hit the exact area you normally shoot.

Anyway that whole area in LotSB is so much fun as an adept. Often a single Pull will kill someone because they get sucked up further by the wind.

I had so much fun with this part of the game. Really easy as well when you can instakill so often.

Modifié par termokanden, 07 mai 2011 - 12:25 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Yeah, I think LotSB has some of ME2's best combat. On top of the SB ship the electric storm adds a whole new dimension to (mostly biotic) powers and gameplay. Not only does it looks incredible - on top of a huge space ship - it's also very cool to get enemies flying into the storm. Those capacitors also add options to either strip defenses, insta-kill rocket drones and/or CC - effect can cause friendly fire so you've to be careful when you trigger it.

I hope we're going to see more environments like this one in ME3. I really like using the surroundings to assist with killing those mercs

[Alamar2078]

BTW I loved the light touch of environmental manipulation you could get away with in LotSB. Singularity on the capacitors, Pull or Slam for instakills, etc.

I wish there were even more levels and more things you could do to / with the environment to help in a battle.

[Alamar2078]

mcsupersport wrote...

^^ Even in ME1 there was armor that increased protections against biotics and even upgrades (Combat Exos IIRC) that further increased the protection against biotic and tech attacks. ME2 simply took this as a read for all armor, and if I was designing armor and knew someone could kill a person with an attack and there was a reasonable way to prevent it, then I would utilize it. So having armor protect against the Mass effect attacks of biotics isn't outside of the lore, you just have to remember to read about it.

To me shields make less since but then having enemies and companions without "armor" in combat was stupid in my book anyway. So I always just take it as read that I am fighting them and have to disable their shields and armor to attack them, even if it only shows one protection.

I was aware of the "servos" or as I called them "stabalizers" in my earlier post.  The thing is the lore seemed odd for them.  I could see that working better in a full suit of "power armor" but not so much with the comparatively low amounts of armor we see in game.

While I may have the lore wrong I could see Shields & Barriers blunting many biotic attacks because powers like throw of pull can't grab onto / lock onto you properly if you have shields or barriers in place.

I don't see how traditional "armor" would accomplish the same effect.  You may not get as injured from a Throw perhaps but the effect would still fire off.  Perhaps I could see a heavy suit of power armor "locking down" before the effect hit but not the armor levels we see in game.

[AK404]

If I recall correctly, it's ablative armor: it would disperse the force of a biotic attack from a single focused point throughout the entire surface, thus nullifying its effectiveness. However, it'd also slowly break down in the process.

Maybe?

[The Spamming Troll]

whats the point in having biotics in the ME universe if everything prevents biotics from happening? a biotic user should be destroying things whether they have shields or not.

i dont understand why youd like the game to be balanced in a way that puts only the adept at a certain inconvenience. i think any way you try to spin it, a half second stagger shouldnt be the result of a heavy throw. it shouldnt even be as simple as it is in ME2. maybe bioware will allow me to choose which of my abilities can be effective on protected enemies instead of just giving me singularity and everyone stasis. altho that means theyll be giving us choice, and im not sure that the direction ME is going.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 07 mai 2011 - 06:58 .

[termokanden]

Unfortunately if they allowed biotics to be as strong as they are against unprotected enemies, but always, then the adept class would be completely overpowered. You'd have to tone down biotics otherwise. Might make them a bit boring.

Not saying they got it completely right, but there is a problem here. If you get jedi powers that can suck a whole room full of enemies into a singularity, then where is the challenge?

[lolwut666]

It would've been good if the Heavy evolution of powers like Pull or Throw made them useful against protected enemies.

Heavy Pull is pointless the way it is.

[mcsupersport]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

mcsupersport wrote...

I liked the ability to put a Singularity inside the lightning capacitors causing them to discharge as soon as they build up. If you are facing waves of enemy just drop a singularity in the Capacitor closest to the incoming waves and it will hit them every time it can discharge automatically. You just have to remember to wait until the singularity disappears or cast another somewhere else before trying to pass the trapped capacitor, hehehehehe.

LOL, never knew you could do that. Sounds pretty cool and it must be very effective also. What about Sings duration? Does it remain up to 30 seconds or does triggering lightning strikes decreases its duration?

I imagine putting a Singularity in place, move in just outside the lightning strikes and go berserk with other biotic powers. Without shields you can do anything; Slam, Pull, Throw, Shockwave the lot into the storm

A singularity fits inside the capacitor and lasts a long freakin' time, all the way to full duration.  I took an adept through after reading or seeing something about this and tried it out, worked wonders, to the point of almost making it too easy, because the capacitors were stripping all defenses and stunning a bunch of poeple allowing me to go wild with throw, and pull and Liara's singularity.    You target the capacitor so you see the destructable box then cast the singularity and watch the fun start.

[mcsupersport]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

whats the point in having biotics in the ME universe if everything prevents biotics from happening? a biotic user should be destroying things whether they have shields or not.

i dont understand why youd like the game to be balanced in a way that puts only the adept at a certain inconvenience. i think any way you try to spin it, a half second stagger shouldnt be the result of a heavy throw. it shouldnt even be as simple as it is in ME2. maybe bioware will allow me to choose which of my abilities can be effective on protected enemies instead of just giving me singularity and everyone stasis. altho that means theyll be giving us choice, and im not sure that the direction ME is going.

You have made your point time and again, you want a "Biotc God" and don't really care if the play is boring as long as you can toss people around.  We get it, you don't want to listen to how to play the adept at higher levels and do well, you want your "Godhood" back, so just play a Soldier with the Mattock and have fun being a "God of War" or turn down the diffculty to Veteran and below.

[mcsupersport]

AK404 wrote...

If I recall correctly, it's ablative armor: it would disperse the force of a biotic attack from a single focused point throughout the entire surface, thus nullifying its effectiveness. However, it'd also slowly break down in the process.

Maybe?

Ablative armor reduced the total damage taken, like immunty it is damage resistance.
Combat Exos X, actually reduced the tech and biotic effect by 35% increased smash damage 35% and physics threshold by 90%.

http://masseffect.wi...bat_Exoskeleton

Put together you could both reduce your damage and increase your resistance to biotics.  It doesn't make since that if there was a way to protect against biotic attacks that future armors wouldn't incorporate it into the suits. 

[The Spamming Troll]

mcsupersport wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

whats the point in having biotics in the ME universe if everything prevents biotics from happening? a biotic user should be destroying things whether they have shields or not.

i dont understand why youd like the game to be balanced in a way that puts only the adept at a certain inconvenience. i think any way you try to spin it, a half second stagger shouldnt be the result of a heavy throw. it shouldnt even be as simple as it is in ME2. maybe bioware will allow me to choose which of my abilities can be effective on protected enemies instead of just giving me singularity and everyone stasis. altho that means theyll be giving us choice, and im not sure that the direction ME is going.

You have made your point time and again, you want a "Biotc God" and don't really care if the play is boring as long as you can toss people around.  We get it, you don't want to listen to how to play the adept at higher levels and do well, you want your "Godhood" back, so just play a Soldier with the Mattock and have fun being a "God of War" or turn down the diffculty to Veteran and below.

i dont want to push a button and have something awesome happen. i dont play ME to play as a soldier. i simply want to be an effective biotic user. adepts are as misrepresented in ME2, as is the term "RPG" thats been tagged to it. creating some false challenge that only my adepts become inconveneinced by isnt a great way to make a game more difficult. theres just no argueing against that.

do you think theres some magical way to play an adept on insanity??? there no learning curve to play an adept on insanity. once you "understand" that biotics dont work, you stop using them. really, im not some dolphin here without opposable thumbs.

enemy protections still exist on lower difficulties.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 07 mai 2011 - 07:46 .

[lolwut666]

@The Spamming Troll

Are you saying Bozorgmehr's Adept is not effective?

I can also use the Adept quite effectively, and so can many others who post here.

I think you should give it another go with the Adept and try to follow some of the pointers other Adept players give here.

Maybe that will change your mind.