962 réponses à ce sujet

[Ahglock]

Dave666 wrote...

MELTOR13 wrote...

The CC and group-killing abilities of an Adept are pretty much unmatched (Engineer might match them at CC, Sentinel might match them at group-killing). If you think an Infiltrator can OSOK three mooks before an Adept could Overload->Pull->Warp the whole group, you are delirious. Teammates Overload/Pull, Adept warps, goodbye group. That takes about 3 seconds. It takes an Infiltrator 3 seconds to reload the Widow twice.

I understand what you're saying but we both know that its very situational at best.  If you can get enemies grouped close enough together to be caught in a warp explosion (which will usually just strip the protections of his friends and throw them apart), then well done, you've managed to kill one enemy.  You now need to use another pull on the two that survived (while hoping that they're still close enough to both get caught in a Pull's radius) and now you need to throw another warp for another explosion to finish them off.

You tell me, in that time could an Infiltrator have gotten three head stots?

I think he is saying overload on the gorup, all 3 have defenses stripped, next pull, then warp bomb and all 3 die. It works sometimes, other times 1 or 2 of the 3 survive.

 But I think it is a bit weird of an argument in the first place.  As an combat class you can clear a level faster, even if in some situations you can clear a single group on the level faster as an adept.  Though I am not sure speed runs are what matters the most in balance, there are other factors.   

[Dave666]

Ahglock wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

MELTOR13 wrote...

The CC and group-killing abilities of an Adept are pretty much unmatched (Engineer might match them at CC, Sentinel might match them at group-killing). If you think an Infiltrator can OSOK three mooks before an Adept could Overload->Pull->Warp the whole group, you are delirious. Teammates Overload/Pull, Adept warps, goodbye group. That takes about 3 seconds. It takes an Infiltrator 3 seconds to reload the Widow twice.

I understand what you're saying but we both know that its very situational at best.  If you can get enemies grouped close enough together to be caught in a warp explosion (which will usually just strip the protections of his friends and throw them apart), then well done, you've managed to kill one enemy.  You now need to use another pull on the two that survived (while hoping that they're still close enough to both get caught in a Pull's radius) and now you need to throw another warp for another explosion to finish them off.

You tell me, in that time could an Infiltrator have gotten three head stots?

I think he is saying overload on the gorup, all 3 have defenses stripped, next pull, then warp bomb and all 3 die. It works sometimes, other times 1 or 2 of the 3 survive.

 But I think it is a bit weird of an argument in the first place.  As an combat class you can clear a level faster, even if in some situations you can clear a single group on the level faster as an adept.  Though I am not sure speed runs are what matters the most in balance, there are other factors.   

In my experience its most of the time, not sometimes.  Others may have different experiences, but thats what I've found.  The whole speed run thing was more about showing that killing say three enemies with Biotics isn't really faster than say three Widow head shots.

[Tony Gunslinger]

Dave666 wrote...

I understand what you're saying but we both know that its very situational at best.  If you can get enemies grouped close enough together to be caught in a warp explosion (which will usually just strip the protections of his friends and throw them apart), then well done, you've managed to kill one enemy.  You now need to use another pull on the two that survived (while hoping that they're still close enough to both get caught in a Pull's radius) and now you need to throw another warp for another explosion to finish them off.

You tell me, in that time could an Infiltrator have gotten three head stots?

Let's say there are 6 guys in a room.

Joe the Widow Infiltrator:
Turn 1: Snipe merc > 5 left shooting at you
Turn 2: Snipe merc > 4 left shooting at you
Turn 3: Snipe merc > 3 left shooting at you
Turn 4: Snipe merc > 2 left shooting at you
Turn 5: Snipe merc > 1 left shooting at you
Turn 6: Snipe merc > end of battle

After 6 turns, Joe’s team has been shot at 5 + 4 + 3 + 2 + 1 + 0 = 15 times

Tom the Adept:
Turn 1: Singularity on left side > 3 mercs get caught in it > 3 left shooting at you
Turn 2: shoot right side merc + Pull Field > 2 left shooting at you
Turn 3: Warp bomb right side, 1 dies while 2 left damaged and staggering > 0 left shooting at you
Turn 4: shoot left side mercs + Pull Field + Singularity on right side > 0 left shooting at you
Turn 5: Warp bomb left side, 3 dies > 0 left shooting at you
Turn 6: Warp bomb right side, 2 dies > end of battle

After 6 turns, Tom’s team has been shot at 3 + 2 + 0 + 0 + 0 + 0 = 5 times

The above is simplified, but the point is: Joe may kill faster, but his team is soaking up more damage than Tom. Joe's strategy is to outdamage the opponent in a game of attrition, while Tom's strategy is multitasking. Everytime you say that CCing is very situational, I can say that sniping is also very situational. Neither way is empirically 'better' because the game deliberately offers you multiple ways to suit whatever style of play you desire. You may believe killing speed trumps all, while I think crowd-controlling is the smarter and cooler way to play. You may be completely set in your mind that this game is just a shooter, while I completely believe that is game combines shooting and tactical turn-based fighting that's rendered in real time.

And the reason why I don’t think the casters need a OSOK ability is because Tom’s way of playing be done by all classes, but not all classes are as good at it than Tom. When Vanguards and Infiltrators switch weapons to use teamwork crowd-controlling tactics, they’re half-Engineers and half-Adepts relying on squadmates to do what Engineers and Adepts can already do by themselves.

[Ahglock]

Dave666 wrote...



In my experience its most of the time, not sometimes.  Others may have different experiences, but thats what I've found.  The whole speed run thing was more about showing that killing say three enemies with Biotics isn't really faster than say three Widow head shots.

It depends on enemy, level, how many damage mods you have, armor worn, class passive.  If you go nemeis and have the blood dragon armor that gives you  a bit of a buffer on the damage mods but yeah there are a lot of points in the game where you might not take them all out.  And for the speed killing well I'll point out outside of dominate/hacking the most effective CC in the game is death.

 I'm joking a bit but really the entire purpose of CC is to stop enemies so you can deal with others.  Being able to OSOK defeats the entire purpose of CC.  Think of a MMO  you get hit with a squad of 5, whoever is on CC uses CC on whoever he can and keeps them out of the fight.  The other people focus on killing who is active, healing etc.  If mr cc could just kill people instead, you would just spam that instead of wasting your time fighting people who aren't CCd.  The same thing applies in a single player game, If I have option one put dude one in CC and then attack dude 2 then go back and fight dude 1, or option 2 OSOK dude one then OSOK dude 2 which works out better, if you had both options would you ever use CC?

IN ME1 CC could dominate the enitre game, in ME2 there is not much of  a reason to CC people.  When I am playing a vanguard I don't even look to my CC buttons, I can and it works fine if you are good enough, but there isn't much of a reason to,(In ME1 you could play as a pure shooter with invulnerability and never CC if you wanted to as well, just not much of a point to not use CC)

if you are playing a soldier it is the same thing, I don't worry about getting a squadmate to cryo enemies or Pull targets.  Shooting my way through things is one of the most effective things to do in the game.  They basically flipped it now shooting dominates the entire game,(which isn't to say you can't biotic your way through it just like you could soldier your way through ME1) hopefully in ME3 they will come to some kind of balance where every role is important and one role does not dominate the game.  

[Bozorgmehr]

Guilebrush wrote...

This is a great point. You're right that with certain classes the gains you experience are so marginal by the time you finish the 2nd recruitment mission or so, with only the collector's ship bonus weapon being having a truly noticeable impact on your power level (especially true with Vanguards and Soldiers not abusing Mattocks).

What I also find rather strange is the fact that many people, myself included, dismiss or rather have very narrow viewpoints on certain biotic powers due to their inherent limitations yet we don't apply the same level of scrutiny to other aspects of the game. I'm specifically getting at weapons and their inherent limitations here. While layers of defense for the most part matter very little to weapons, sure some function better against certain types of defenses but you never find yourself going: "that guy has shields I guess I wont use the Widow on him;" they are hit just as hard or harder as biotic powers in other ways, yet people readily accept that. You don't see anyone going "why can't Sniper Rifles function super well in CQC?" or "I hate shotguns cause they suck at long distances!" Realistically speaking aren't these limitations just as crippling as certain powers not being ideal against certain defenses, just that maybe the workaround takes a different approach, one that we're more used to?

I dunno maybe I'm just overthinking things here. What I do know is that this thread has gotten me to try out power combinations I may have taken for granted in the past, see how effective they can be in some situations (LotSB) and encouraged me to try out an Adept sometime in the future on Insanity. Thanks for that.

I think your assessment might be close to the main issue of the Adept. Unlike the combat classes, the Adept's playstyle isn't very straightforward. Instead of focusing all attention on one enemy at a time; Adepts are at their best doing multiple things at once. ARush-shoot-kill, Charge-shoot-kill and Cloak-shoot-kill is clear; Adepts have to remove defenses (I prefer using squad powers and weapons for this) before they can resume their familiar (below Hardcore) playstyle using biotics. Adepts have to (constantly) scan the battlefield looking for opportunities they can exploit - the combat classes only have to worry about their current or next target.

When you start using your squadmates & Shep's powers like a team and using weapons to complement powers; you'll be able to use every biotic power to its fullest effect all the time. Playing Adept demands smart use of multiple powers; it's arguably the most 'tactical' class in ME2. Maybe not the easiest on Insanity, but very rewarding when you start sending enemies flying like you can/do on Normal difficulty

[Bozorgmehr]

NackterGolfer wrote...

quite interesting read so far. playing a new adept on insanity at the moment, I too feel it lacks something. I don't quite have a name for it, so I call it 'oooomph!'

Yeah, Adepts lack a 'super' power like the other classes. Singularity is not in the same league as ARush, Cloak, Charge and Tech Armor which define those classes. The main strength of the Adept is using all of its powers in tandem. Throw might no look like much on its own, but when you use Singularity or Pull first, you can Throw enemies like Krogan off the map > Throw inflicts more damage than any other power or weapon can.

Singularity by itself isn't an awesome power, but it will make all the Adept's other powers more potent when used right.

The way out of this dilemma cannot be that biotics work through defenses. It could be achieved, by changing biotic skills, which I wouldn't do.
So my idea is this: Like in the Wasea fight (Recruiting Samara) an adept should be able to pull objects from the environment and throw them to the enemy with a bit more devastating effect than Wasea of course. Or letting objects fall down on enemies etc.
Generally speaking a physical force based class should be able to interact with the environment more. However this may be hard to realize, but it would depthen the Adept class much more than making biotics work though defenses.

Excellent point! I hope there will be a more interactive environment in ME3 too. With the added option to use biotics to manipulate the surroundings, there will be more options to use biotic powers in a new, tactical, and (likely) very cool way. The LotSB DLC had a couple cool features (capacitors and electric storm) to spice things up. Let's pray there will be (a lot) more in ME3.

[Bozorgmehr]

Dave666 wrote...

Yeah, no problem.  The reason why I often use simple examples for comparison is that I've been (mentally) inactive for a long time and my debating skills leave a bit to be desired at times.  Sometimes I just can't think of a good way to say what I want to say and end up using less than stellar examples.

Being mentally inactive isn't very health Dave; and a biotic sin! The Adepts controls the field with his/her mind after all

For the sake of the debate, could you answer this question, please? Do you believe ME2 Adepts are lacking in power on Normal difficulty? Remember 10-20% of the enemies you'll face have defenses; you cannot use Pull or Throw on them without stripping defenses first. Or do you think raising the bar to Insanity is too harsh on the Adept and all other classes ought to have a similar handicap?

Main point here is how you expect Adepts to behave; Tony posted a great example about the difference between an Adept and an Infiltrator (Widow-sniping). I really like how ME2 combines shooting and powers, Adepts are the best CC ers. They're not capable to lock down entire battlefields (Insanity) but still have quite potent CC abilities boosting their overall combat prowess (they're the best CC class). You can build a strategy around almost any power AND still be effective in combat. I think it's fair to say that most regular ME2 players don't like the Mattock Soldier because it's too easy (but very fast); using a more creative approach - Adepts, Engineers, but also an Infiltrator focusing on CC or taking Dominate and max AI Hacking to mess around. Maybe not the fastest way to play, but lots of fun, and you're still able to fight your way through quite fast (game is never tedious).

Your argument about OSOK are not really related to powers; only weapons can one-shot enemies (Insanity). There will be no restrictions on weapons in ME3, which means no difference between classes - except while in either ARush or Cloak. In ME2 Adepts = Vanguards wielding the Claymore; Vanguards only have a power to get them in perfect range easily. Adepts can also one-shot enemies, but have to slap Singularity on them first to disable em while getting into point blank range. It's basically the same thing: Adepts rely on CC; Vanguard on speed - Adepts will be a little slower; Vanguards will take more enemy fire. The problem in ME2 is weapons. Adepts cannot use the Claymore nor the Widow (the only true OSOK weapons). Vanguards and Infiltrators, who take on weapon training instead of their respective unique weapon, are also not able to one-shot enemies.

[RGFrog]

NackterGolfer wrote...
The way out of this dilemma cannot be that biotics work through defenses. It could be achieved, by changing biotic skills, which I wouldn't do.
So my idea is this: Like in the Wasea fight (Recruiting Samara) an adept should be able to pull objects from the environment and throw them to the enemy with a bit more devastating effect than Wasea of course. Or letting objects fall down on enemies etc.
Generally speaking a physical force based class should be able to interact with the environment more. However this may be hard to realize, but it would depthen the Adept class much more than making biotics work though defenses.

Perhaps I'm mis-remembering, but weren't we able to hurl crates and boxes, etc. at the enemy in ME1?

[Dave666]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Yeah, no problem.  The reason why I often use simple examples for comparison is that I've been (mentally) inactive for a long time and my debating skills leave a bit to be desired at times.  Sometimes I just can't think of a good way to say what I want to say and end up using less than stellar examples.

Being mentally inactive isn't very health Dave; and a biotic sin! The Adepts controls the field with his/her mind after all

For the sake of the debate, could you answer this question, please? Do you believe ME2 Adepts are lacking in power on Normal difficulty? Remember 10-20% of the enemies you'll face have defenses; you cannot use Pull or Throw on them without stripping defenses first. Or do you think raising the bar to Insanity is too harsh on the Adept and all other classes ought to have a similar handicap?

Main point here is how you expect Adepts to behave; Tony posted a great example about the difference between an Adept and an Infiltrator (Widow-sniping). I really like how ME2 combines shooting and powers, Adepts are the best CC ers. They're not capable to lock down entire battlefields (Insanity) but still have quite potent CC abilities boosting their overall combat prowess (they're the best CC class). You can build a strategy around almost any power AND still be effective in combat. I think it's fair to say that most regular ME2 players don't like the Mattock Soldier because it's too easy (but very fast); using a more creative approach - Adepts, Engineers, but also an Infiltrator focusing on CC or taking Dominate and max AI Hacking to mess around. Maybe not the fastest way to play, but lots of fun, and you're still able to fight your way through quite fast (game is never tedious).

Your argument about OSOK are not really related to powers; only weapons can one-shot enemies (Insanity). There will be no restrictions on weapons in ME3, which means no difference between classes - except while in either ARush or Cloak. In ME2 Adepts = Vanguards wielding the Claymore; Vanguards only have a power to get them in perfect range easily. Adepts can also one-shot enemies, but have to slap Singularity on them first to disable em while getting into point blank range. It's basically the same thing: Adepts rely on CC; Vanguard on speed - Adepts will be a little slower; Vanguards will take more enemy fire. The problem in ME2 is weapons. Adepts cannot use the Claymore nor the Widow (the only true OSOK weapons). Vanguards and Infiltrators, who take on weapon training instead of their respective unique weapon, are also not able to one-shot enemies.

Tell me about it bud.

On Normal?  Its pretty damn powerful, personally I would prefer a bit of a wider radius on powers (not ME:1 style of course) but a bit wider.  

I do think that the other classes should have a similar handicap, yes.  They tried to do that in ME:2 and I just don't think they did it very well.  They did a blanket all powers last x% less time and on paper that sounds fair.  In practice its far from it.  The Adept is all about powers with guns being a backup.  Something like the Infiltrator is all about guns with powers backing them up.  So the Adept just gets hit harder.  Their primary abilities are hit hard whereas an Infiltrators secondary abilities are hit.  Then you add in protections hitting powers even harder and...

For me the Adept should not be about briefly staggering an enemy, it should be more than that.

[Dave666]

RGFrog wrote...

NackterGolfer wrote...
The way out of this dilemma cannot be that biotics work through defenses. It could be achieved, by changing biotic skills, which I wouldn't do.
So my idea is this: Like in the Wasea fight (Recruiting Samara) an adept should be able to pull objects from the environment and throw them to the enemy with a bit more devastating effect than Wasea of course. Or letting objects fall down on enemies etc.
Generally speaking a physical force based class should be able to interact with the environment more. However this may be hard to realize, but it would depthen the Adept class much more than making biotics work though defenses.

Perhaps I'm mis-remembering, but weren't we able to hurl crates and boxes, etc. at the enemy in ME1?

You could throw explosive canisters and very small crates at enemies in ME:1 and you could Lift larger crates but trying to Throw them just moved them a few inches.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

RGFrog wrote...

NackterGolfer wrote...
The way out of this dilemma cannot be that biotics work through defenses. It could be achieved, by changing biotic skills, which I wouldn't do.
So my idea is this: Like in the Wasea fight (Recruiting Samara) an adept should be able to pull objects from the environment and throw them to the enemy with a bit more devastating effect than Wasea of course. Or letting objects fall down on enemies etc.
Generally speaking a physical force based class should be able to interact with the environment more. However this may be hard to realize, but it would depthen the Adept class much more than making biotics work though defenses.

Perhaps I'm mis-remembering, but weren't we able to hurl crates and boxes, etc. at the enemy in ME1?

I think we were too...

In any case, I think BW intended for Adepts to use the environment more in ME2 (the factory missions like Miranda's/Garrus' LMs are good examples), but in the end, it never ended up being practical. For example, Miranda's LM features machinery and bombs that can be flung into enemies for good damage... but does anyone use them? Not really, as those were nearly impossible to utilize, what, with the slow speed of biotic projectiles and so forth.

Overall I agree with Golfer's opinion that Adepts should be able to use the game environment in a more deadly way. Getting into Boz's question a bit, I personally think that this would be a good way for Adepts to work - manipulating the environment to bypass defenses and gain advantage, before dominating masses of enemies with cc and high damage combos. While this does cross a bit into Engineer territory, I think this would be fine, as Tech abilities have a very distinct flavor from biotics, even if they end up being made to play in a similar way.

[The Spamming Troll]

Bozorgmehr wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

thats the point! you can always headshot with a sniper rifle, you can always charge as a vangaurd and you can always cloak as an infiltrator. you CANT always play biotics like an adept, AND THATS HIS POINT. why does the adept see such a drastic change to its gameplay, while everyone else can still charge, cloak, and headshot. the game is broken in an almost backwards way for the adept.

Adepts can ALWAYS headshot (like everyone else); they can ALWAYS use biotic powers - Adept gameplay does NOT change - you only have to strip defenses first to use the OTHER biotic powers that are not very effective against defenses. This is also the case playing on Casual btw. Your point is nonsense.

YOUR NONSENSE BOZO!

did you not just say........."the adepts gameplay doesnt change, you only have to play it differently"

the adepts choices chage drastically from veteran to hardcore. my choices on insanity revolve mainly around using singularity and warp. you cant seriously be thinking protections dont change anything to the game! i think its fairly obvious protections are far more then an HP boost.

Bozorgmehr wrote...

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i
also wanted to mention an adepts weapons will NEVER compare to the
effectiveness of those same weapons on an infiltrator or vangaurd. the
soldier has an ability for every enemy type they face in game, just
because its ammo powers are not an active ability doesnt mean its doesnt
count. reave and warp should strip defenses because they are debuffs.
stasis is available to everyone, and is possibly the best biotic ability
in the game, and singularity is far to inconsistant and ineffective to
have it be something to compare to waht AR, cloak, charge, drone, and
tech armor can do for your character.

Weapon damage is
equal for all classes; Adepts are just as able with weapons as the
combat classes - the only real difference is early-game when the Adept
doesn't have his/her bonus weapon yet. Adepts have multiple abilities
they can use against EVERY enemy in the game. Adept can also OSOK
enemies with the Mantis or a shotgun - no difference compared to the
combat classes.

You're considering every biotic power to be total
crap whilst (less useful / powerful) powers - which are not available
to Adepts - rock.

you  need to dig deeper into my coments bozo. my point lies within charge and slow mow sniping. thats the reason why an adept with the mantis isnt the same as an infiltrator with the widow, in slo mo.

does "every enemy" include a protected enemy? i hear protections cause adepts some grief, but i dont know if youre ever going to accept that.

Bozorgmehr wrote...

Arcing means
controlling your powers, so you can drag someone out of cover, Pull em
towards their pals to follow up with a Warp explosion; Pull explosive
containers towards enemies; smash them into walls or other obstacles.
Ledges are the icing on the (biotic) cake. Arcing powers are great
though I agree that the Adept could use at least one insta-cast power
(like all other classes) - insta-cast Singularity would be great imo;
everything else should remain the same.

what happens if the enemy hiding behind that wall has protections? what if the all mighty singulairty wont snag the person out of cover, because singularity is the redheaded stepchild of signature powers.

more so any class can do this. it isnt adept exclusive.

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

RGFrog wrote...

NackterGolfer wrote...
The
way out of this dilemma cannot be that biotics work through defenses.
It could be achieved, by changing biotic skills, which I wouldn't do.
So
my idea is this: Like in the Wasea fight (Recruiting Samara) an adept
should be able to pull objects from the environment and throw them to
the enemy with a bit more devastating effect than Wasea of course. Or
letting objects fall down on enemies etc.
Generally speaking a
physical force based class should be able to interact with the
environment more. However this may be hard to realize, but it would
depthen the Adept class much more than making biotics work though
defenses.

Perhaps I'm mis-remembering, but weren't we able to hurl crates and boxes, etc. at the enemy in ME1?

I think we were too...

In
any case, I think BW intended for Adepts to use the environment more in
ME2 (the factory missions like Miranda's/Garrus' LMs are good
examples), but in the end, it never ended up being practical. For
example, Miranda's LM features machinery and bombs that can be flung
into enemies for good damage... but does anyone use them? Not really, as
those were nearly impossible to utilize, what, with the slow speed of
biotic projectiles and so forth.

Overall I agree with Golfer's
opinion that Adepts should be able to use the game environment in a more
deadly way. Getting into Boz's question a bit, I personally think that
this would be a good way for Adepts to work - manipulating the
environment to bypass defenses and gain advantage,
before dominating masses of enemies with cc and high damage combos.
While this does cross a bit into Engineer territory, I think this would
be fine, as Tech abilities have a very distinct flavor from biotics,
even if they end up being made to play in a similar way.

i couldnt be more dissapointed in my adept in ME3 if my gameplay is going to revolve around throwing gas cans at enemies. id sell my soul to the devil to remove this kind of implementation into ME3.

"since you cant use that awesome pull-smash ability you invested 1/5 of your points into on an anemy, we put a gas can here for you to lob at them instead!"

hell no. please god bioware dont create something as awesoe as "biotics" and turn them into something like that.

Modifié par The Spamming Troll, 20 mai 2011 - 11:51 .

[The Spamming Troll]

wellp, it looks like im not good at formatting quote breaks.....

how the heck do you guys do that?

[lazuli]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

wellp, it looks like im not good at formatting quote breaks.....

how the heck do you guys do that?

Make sure each little chunk has a (quote) and (/quote), except use brackets instead of parentheses.

[Dave666]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

wellp, it looks like im not good at formatting quote breaks.....

how the heck do you guys do that?

You need to add [ quote ] and [ /quote ] minus the spaces, I usually cba to do it properly so I half ass it.

[The Spamming Troll]

lazuli, you did me a favor!

i feel like a sith lord just helped a jedi.

[lazuli]

The Spamming Troll wrote...

lazuli, you did me a favor!

i feel like a sith lord just helped a jedi.

Stranger things have happened.  I'm willing to put aside almost all reservations in the name of proper formatting.

[NackterGolfer]

I really feel I should not answer to this, *sigh* but I will this one time:

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i couldnt be more
dissapointed in my adept in ME3 if my gameplay is going to revolve
around throwing gas cans at enemies. id sell my soul to the devil to
remove this kind of implementation into ME3.

"since you cant
use that awesome pull-smash ability you invested 1/5 of your points
into on an anemy, we put a gas can here for you to lob at them instead!"

hell no. please god bioware dont create something as awesoe as "biotics" and turn them into something like that.

Obviously I did not mean gas cans, but maybe I have to go in detail, so even the less imaginative people understand what I mean.

Scene one, on board of Shadowbroker's ship. Remember what Liara did to the Shadowbroker at the end?
Scene two, Tali's recruitment mission, a column of solid concrete smashes 3 quarians.
Scene three, recruiting the krogan, how many rocket-guys are on those rusty ledges, you can throw them off one by one, but why not target the ledge, bend metal with the power of your bio-amp. Or even the Krogans coming at you over those rusty bridges, just shove the bridge away and make them fall.

Get it?

It is my opinion that biotics affecting the environment in this or similar ways would make Adepts more interesting, but everyone is entitled to his own opinion. Don't know about effective.

It's late here and I'm off for bed.

PS: No offense intended. <3

[Locutus_of_BORG]

The Spamming Troll wrote...
i couldnt be more dissapointed in my adept in ME3 if my gameplay is going to revolve around throwing gas cans at enemies. id sell my soul to the devil to remove this kind of implementation into ME3.

"since you cant use that awesome pull-smash ability you invested 1/5 of your points into on an anemy, we put a gas can here for you to lob at them instead!"

hell no. please god bioware dont create something as awesoe as "biotics" and turn them into something like that.

Actually, by all official accounts, Adepts will apparently be literally ripping pieces off enemies using pull.

As far as what I said about wanting "environmental effects", I was referring to map-specific set pieces things like buildings or bridges etc. that could be toppled / flung at enemies to take them out, or pools of acid, or industrial crushers to toss fools into.

As far as interactive doodads go, I guess maybe cars and dumpsters, etc. could be added too, in addition to ye olde gas cans.

Modifié par Locutus_of_BORG, 21 mai 2011 - 01:44 .

[Dave666]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Actually, by all official accounts, Adepts will apparently be literally ripping pieces off enemies using pull.

Ooooo! Source?  Or is it speculation?  *Prays.  Please let it have a reliable source!*

[The Spamming Troll]

NackterGolfer wrote...

I really feel I should not answer to this, *sigh* but I will this one time:

The Spamming Troll wrote...

i couldnt be more
dissapointed in my adept in ME3 if my gameplay is going to revolve
around throwing gas cans at enemies. id sell my soul to the devil to
remove this kind of implementation into ME3.

"since you cant
use that awesome pull-smash ability you invested 1/5 of your points
into on an anemy, we put a gas can here for you to lob at them instead!"

hell no. please god bioware dont create something as awesoe as "biotics" and turn them into something like that.

Obviously I did not mean gas cans, but maybe I have to go in detail, so even the less imaginative people understand what I mean.

Scene one, on board of Shadowbroker's ship. Remember what Liara did to the Shadowbroker at the end?
Scene two, Tali's recruitment mission, a column of solid concrete smashes 3 quarians.
Scene three, recruiting the krogan, how many rocket-guys are on those rusty ledges, you can throw them off one by one, but why not target the ledge, bend metal with the power of your bio-amp. Or even the Krogans coming at you over those rusty bridges, just shove the bridge away and make them fall.

Get it?

It is my opinion that biotics affecting the environment in this or similar ways would make Adepts more interesting, but everyone is entitled to his own opinion. Don't know about effective.

It's late here and I'm off for bed.

PS: No offense intended. <3

its not a bad idea, its a GREAT idea. if ME3 really is gonig to have level be deigned to be much larger then pathways through that location should have more options in it. as in infiltrators taking high grownd and snipeing, vangaruds closing in, and adepts actually wreaking havok with their biotics, instead of causeing half second staggers.

altho as is in ME2, i couldnt only see something like that happening durring ainterupt cutscene like i think in mirandas loyalty mission.

[RGFrog]

NackterGolfer wrote...
Scene three, recruiting the krogan, how many rocket-guys are on those rusty ledges, you can throw them off one by one, but why not target the ledge, bend metal with the power of your bio-amp. Or even the Krogans coming at you over those rusty bridges, just shove the bridge away and make them fall.

I use this technique on that level already. Just requires a quick defens strip and then pull, throw off the bridge.

I prefer this to removing the bridge as it would be hard without biotic floating to get across and on the way.

[Locutus_of_BORG]

Dave666 wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Actually, by all official accounts, Adepts will apparently be literally ripping pieces off enemies using pull.

Ooooo! Source?  Or is it speculation?  *Prays.  Please let it have a reliable source!*

This should have been from GI or one of Hudson's tweets. In particular, it was in reference to melee / ballistic shielded enemies and how their defense could be overcome by shooting or using biotics on certain parts of their gear/body.

[Ahglock]

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Dave666 wrote...

Locutus_of_BORG wrote...

Actually, by all official accounts, Adepts will apparently be literally ripping pieces off enemies using pull.

Ooooo! Source?  Or is it speculation?  *Prays.  Please let it have a reliable source!*

This should have been from GI or one of Hudson's tweets. In particular, it was in reference to melee / ballistic shielded enemies and how their defense could be overcome by shooting or using biotics on certain parts of their gear/body.

To me it sounded more like physical shields like the shodow broker had could be torn for the ahnds of those who had them.  In other words some people have mobile cover, the adept might be able to remove it.  Nice I guess but slow motion shooting handles cover issues just as well, I suspect engineer's will have a way to handle this etc. so all it really means is adepts wont get extra hosed by mobile cover.  

[mcsupersport]

I definitely wouldn't mind them adding back some of the awesomesauce to the Adept, I just hope they don't go too far, and make it too easy, similar to what happens when you take the Mattock and Widow on a Soldier. I want lots of fun powers that are effective, but I don't want to walk into every room and know that nothing can touch me either. I absolutely refuse to play an adept in ME2 below Hardcore, and am currently running an adept at Insanity and enjoying the challenge, so if they are made too much more powerful then it would be too easy. Right now on insanity my adept can beat everyone as long as I don't get careless and forget about enemies or push too hard.