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[Inquisitor Recon]

When did this topic turn so stupid? I authorize only myself to whine about plot holes from this point forward.

[Driveninhifi]

Back on target:

Stuff that really jumped out at me as not making any sense. Most of this is forcing plot progression on the player in a very transparent way.



If Shepard is Renegade, why wouldn't he/she shoot Miranda and Jacob in the head and steal their shuttle? I can understand this is hard to fix with the plot they chose, but it really stands out as something forced.



Ashley and Kaidan have a far better reason to join Shepard than most of the crew. They are investigating colonies disappearing, may have been in love with Shepard, know Shepard gets things done and ARE HUMAN. The tantrums they throw and not letting the player talk to them further is a lame cop-out.



Liara apparently loved Shepard enough to steal his/her body but is more concerned with vengeance now that Shepard is back again. Vengeance is a bad motivator for her character as portrayed in ME1, but it makes even less sense when you consider she barely knew or liked Feron. Yet she's fine with Shepard heading off on a suicide mission? Doesn't fit at all. Not allowing the player to talk about it is again a huge cop-out.



The big problems with the writing all stem from the fact that the game is touted as offering player choice, but removes interesting and natural response in favor of the plot. You can't give the player everything, but something like the conversation with Liara isn't even believable. Shepard comes back from the dead, finds out his/her lover resurrected him/her and doesn't talk about their relationship?

[Ecael]

smudboy wrote...

Ecael wrote...
Then try enjoying another story instead of whining about a single one.

I love stories of all kinds.  I'm constantly reading/playing.  Thanks for the suggestion though.

Seems like you spend more time complaining and trolling to me.

Also, I'm not whining.  But you can't see my constructive criticism that through your Ivory Lensed Photoshop Palette.  Because ME2 in your eyes can obviously do know wrong. 

You didn't even bother to read the first post of this thread, did you?

Why, it's just another Photoshop game design idea away to perfection.  God forbid smudboy have a differeing opinion, that would take too much effort on someone's part to even begin to argue.

I don't really care what people think.  Hence why I block them.  Annoying little sillymen and their ideas!  Block block block!

If you didn't care, you wouldn't block them. In fact, you wouldn't have posted your YouTube videos in the first place.

Your actions continue to contradict your beliefs.

That's because you're anti-smud.  This is an acceptable result.  And maybe you don't know what a plot is?  Or just like to nitpick?  Eh.

Speak for yourself. At least I'll discuss both games (again, see original post of thread) instead of nitpicking one of them like you've been doing the entire time.

Critical analysis is not griping.  Although I do try to be entertaining at times.

Critical analysis assumes there is something to be gained or learned from it. Since you don't obviously care what BioWare thinks, what is it other than relentless whining?

If people can enjoy this game, more power to them.

I make snide remarks.  Mostly observations about you, however.  I'd love to argue, of course...

Again, more power to you if anything that comes out of your brain influences others.  Personally, for me, I don't care.

Unfortunately, that's what you're doing as well, except you're trolling the forums at the same time.

Yes, because a joke is a relevant topic.  Woo hoo!  Go me disregarding my own "arguments."

Oh wait, did I?  Please, tell me where.  I'd be happy to actually argue that with you.

Read everything you just posted and tell me those descriptions don't fit you much, much better.

My intent was cathartic.  This is the aftermath.  Stupid people who can't argue?  (This really changed regardless of whether I made these videos or not.)  Completely expected.  I was, however, hoping for a sexy Medina/Menina/Bambina voice in that critique of a critique.  Alas.

If your whining was cathartic, you would have stopped a long time ago.

Instead, you're doing the exact opposite of what you intend.

Yes they are amateur.  And yes, I'd imagine they're random.  Unless he's got a schedule?  Every Monday?  Photoshop Inspiration Injection Overdose time?  Beats me.

I don't exactly hunt em down and read em all.  I think there was one about an RTS and stuff.

What I'm trying to say is, if Ecael thinks his/her/it's Photoshop Phriday's mean more to BioWare than my Stupid Insignifiant Hateful (yet strangely compelling) Speeches about All Life that is completely contrarary to Ecael's views: yay: Someone should start paying him.

Six of them are guides. Of course, you wouldn't know that, since you didn't even bother to read any of them.

And you said you were constantly reading at the beginning of your post. Reading what, exactly? It appears you're reading only what you write and nothing else. It explains a lot.

[Christmas Ape]

Any chance this little boxing match could move to PMs, or is it important to do this in public?



You ignore buzzing insects, you don't chase them around the house.

[Ecael]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Any chance this little boxing match could move to PMs, or is it important to do this in public?

You ignore buzzing insects, you don't chase them around the house.

More like someone playing a vuvuzela instead of a buzzing insect.



But you're right. Back to the topic...

[cachx]

Christmas Ape wrote...
Any chance this little boxing match could move to PMs, or is it important to do this in public?
You ignore buzzing insects, you don't chase them around the house.

Hey!, Ecael's posts and smud's douchebaggery are one of my few enjoyments in this forum. Don't take that away from me!

Just (half) kidding, it's best to be back on topic. Maybe we should all just relax...

[didymos1120]

thetruefreemo wrote...

ME1: Why don't other alliance armors say N1 or N2? They are existing ranks.

They aren't ranks. They're vocational codes.  'N' means special forces. The number indicates proficiency rating, with 7 being the best. And why not? Well,  we don't know for certain that they don't. We only know we haven't seen them.  Still, as a guess, I'd say it's an informal rule that ended up getting formalized: only those with 7 ratings are authorized to display the insignia on their armor. That sort of thing is fairly common in militaries past and present. 

ME2: On Thane's trust mission, why does the Anti-Human Politician have a Blood Pack body guard when the codex says that blood pack is illegal in council space?

How did you determine that they're Blood Pack? Because according to the codex,the Blood Pack doesn't take bodyguard/security jobs. In any case, the codex also says that they just bribe people at spaceports, so you can find them just about anywhere, Citadel law or no. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 22 juin 2010 - 11:43 .

[Ecael]

Shandepared wrote...

Ecael wrote...

As could the geth in Mass Effect 1. They're there for the sake of being enemies. At least Mass Effect 2 gave us their side of the story. I expect Mass Effect 3 to involve more actual Protheans.

I have two problems with this which relate to the plot. As antagonists the geth were an elegant choice I thought. Their backstory and nature makes them excellent precursors to the Reapers.

The geth are machines, the Reapers are machines.
The geth are hostile to organics, the Reapers are hostile to organics.

I was disappointed to see the geth sidelined and humanized in ME2, especially after they got so much eerie foreshadowing in ME1. We knew that they were evolving in mysterious ways and that they were based in a remote and secluded part of the galaxy. When did they discover Sovereign, what were they planning now that their god was dead? Was there any connection to their genocidal war against the quarians?

Personally I think ME2 would have been better if the geth had remained as the antagonists and in learning more about them we learned that they were even more closely mirroring the Reapers.

As the Reapers feel superior to organics, so do the geth.
As the Reapers turned on their creators, so did the geth.
As the Reapers have taken on a pardoxically biological appearance in their design, so have the geth.

BioWare did a lot of humanizing of Mass Effect 1's former enemies - the geth, the krogan, and (kind of) the rachni. Having the geth mirror the Reapers may prove itself redundant - as I mentioned, the geth were there to give the Reapers ground forces for Shepard to shoot. Since it would look awkward for Shepard to be taking down a Reaper with her/his gun, they gave the player other targets instead - Saren Terminator and Baby Reaper Terminator excluded, of course.

Legion has a lot of dialogue that quite a few don't hear because of how late in the story he appears. I liked how BioWare gave them a personality, a cause and a side to their story. They also brought up the somewhat ethical question of whether synthetics who are capable of thinking and surviving on their own can be considered a sapient species.

If they remained as the only enslaved minions for the Reapers in ME2, that would just make them a lot like the Collectors (except without all the fancy reskins/textures).

:happy:

I was also surprised when I started learning about ME2 to discover that the quarians wouldn't be central to the plot in any way. It seems like a waste to me to go to the trouble of modeling a single quarian in ME1 and injecting her into the plot if she isn't there to foreshadow her species playing a much larger role in the sequel. I always assumed in ME2 that we'd be going into the Terminus to lay the groundwork for a final confrontation with the geth before the Reapers arrive, and that the quarians would play a central role in this as a result.

We're not sure yet if the quarians were truly foreshadowed to play a significant role, but the Council's treatment of quarians starting from Mass Effect 1 wasn't a good sign for Tali or her people - they're essentially left to clean up their own mistakes. If anything, there was more foreshadowing of Cerberus (it's a stretch, I know) only because we didn't know just how well-funded they were until we started hanging out in the Terminus Systems.

I do hope that Tali's loyalty mission has an effect on the ending of the trilogy, though.

Instead we got the Collectors and colony abductions, the former of which has no real connection to the first game.

Even the revelation about the Protheans strikes me as ham-handed. As a plot device the Protheans served their purpose to the story perfectly in the first game. We falsely believed them to be the forerunners to civilization, but in learning the truth we were told of the sacrifice they made to give future civilizations a chance to survive. Learning that they were turned into Collectors, Reaper minions, undermines that in my opinon. Not to mentino that it doesn't really make a lot of sense... it just feels off. Considering the vague insectoid appearance of the Collectors I was expecting to learn that they were related to the Keepers. Perhaps the original stock the Keepers were bred from. I think that would fit better than having them be radically altered Protheans. It would also better explain the role of the Collectors and their base; a billion year-old support structure for the Reaper's vanguard, laying the groundwork for future assimilation...

I always thought the Keepers were the somehow related to the Rachni - the Rachni Envoy recalls how technologically knowledgeable and capable the Rachni were in repairing her downed ship. It seems like a skill that the Reapers would want to make use of early on - thus turning them into the Citadel's mindless drones.

We don't know for sure how long the Rachni have been around, either - the Reapers may have been waiting for them to continue advancing and evolving before using them in a war against the galaxy (and having their converted forms trigger the Citadel relay) but the Council opened the dormant mass relay far too early for the Reapers to prepare adequately.

Rachni Soldier:


Citadel Keeper:

[smudboy]

Ecael wrote...
Seems like you spend more time complaining and trolling to me.

I'd be happy to tell you my library, what I'm currently reading, critiquing, playing; but zat eez zee priviledged informasion.

You didn't even bother to read the first post of this thread, did you?

Some kind of game thread, thing.

(Noooope.)

If you didn't care, you wouldn't block them. In fact, you wouldn't have posted your YouTube videos in the first place.

Your actions continue to contradict your beliefs.

Listen, toots. I'm telling you how it is.  Upstairs.  I don't care for bull****, so I block bull****.  Capiché?

Speak for yourself. At least I'll discuss both games (again, see original post of thread) instead of nitpicking one of them like you've been doing the entire time.

But it's easier to imagine you're a moron, and respond in terms of absolute simplicity.  That way everyone can understand.  And if not, then woo.  Fun times.

What does nitpicking more than one game, than the one this forum is about, set out to accomplish?  Well you wanna do it, so go for it.

Critical analysis assumes there is something to be gained or learned from it. Since you don't obviously care what BioWare thinks, what is it other than relentless whining?

Thanks for the subjective viewpoint of critical analysis.  Just because I don't care for my audience doesn't change what I'm doing.  Geez Ecael.  Keep trying to label my analysis as whining and I'll keep calling you an amateur hack with no life beyond computer programs.  Because that's what this has dissolved into
Ecael: "Stop whining.  No one cares."
smud: "I'm not whining.  And I don't even care."
Ecael: "Yes you do.  Else you wouldn't have made videos."
smud: "I did that for the catharsis.  And I love hearing my sexy, endearing voice."
Ecael: *Random bull**** ****off smud, but in a less obvious way not using argument.*
smud: "I am continuously awaiting an argument, ad infinitum."

Read everything you just posted and tell me those descriptions don't fit you much, much better.

Don't care to.

If your whining was cathartic, you would have stopped a long time ago.

Instead, you're doing the exact opposite of what you intend.

I can assure you, the more I "whine", the better it feels.  Why, here I am writing to a moron who wants to write back to me.  See?  We're all one big happy cathartic family.

Six of them are guides. Of course, you wouldn't know that, since you didn't even bother to read any of them.

And you said you were constantly reading at the beginning of your post. Reading what, exactly? It appears you're reading only what you write and nothing else. It explains a lot.

No I've no need to read your guides, but thanks for making them.

:|

I read fiction, mostly detective, some romance, philosophy, psychology, pharmacology, economics, comics, etc.  Whatever I can get.  I'm a hungry man.  A hungry reading man.  Set apart by other men.  By his reading.  And responding to morons who don't have a point.

Keep it up.  It's like an exercise in typing, or something.

Think of it as giving your mindless forum post some bumps.

Modifié par smudboy, 23 juin 2010 - 01:20 .

[Ecael]

smudboy wrote...

Listen, toots. I'm telling you how it is.  Upstairs.  I don't care for bull****, so I block bull****.  Capiché?

But it's easier to imagine you're a moron, and respond in terms of absolute simplicity.  That way everyone can understand.  And if not, then woo.  Fun times.

I'll keep calling you an amateur hack with no life beyond computer programs.

I can assure you, the more I "whine", the better it feels.  Why, here I am writing to a moron who wants to write back to me.  See?  We're all one big happy cathartic family.

And responding to morons who don't have a point.

Keep it up.  It's like an exercise in typing, or something.

Think of it as giving your mindless forum post some bumps.

smudboy wrote...

While they retreat to emotion and ad homs.

I win.

[smudboy]

Ecael wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Listen, toots. I'm telling you how it is.  Upstairs.  I don't care for bull****, so I block bull****.  Capiché?

But it's easier to imagine you're a moron, and respond in terms of absolute simplicity.  That way everyone can understand.  And if not, then woo.  Fun times.

I'll keep calling you an amateur hack with no life beyond computer programs.

I can assure you, the more I "whine", the better it feels.  Why, here I am writing to a moron who wants to write back to me.  See?  We're all one big happy cathartic family.

And responding to morons who don't have a point.

Keep it up.  It's like an exercise in typing, or something.

Think of it as giving your mindless forum post some bumps.

smudboy wrote...

While they retreat to emotion and ad homs.

I win.

I'd argue what, but since this is merely an ego rub on your behalf, then fine.

I can keep this up.  How about you use your little ol brain and actually have a point to make hmm?  That'd be special.

[Ecael]

Shandepared wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Legion has a lot of dialogue that quite a few don't hear because of how late in the story he appears. I liked how BioWare gave them a personality, a cause and a side to their story. They also brought up the somewhat ethical question of whether synthetics who are capable of thinking and surviving on their own can be considered a sapient species.

It's easy to convince somebody to spare the geth if they are friendly, but what if they aren't? That's a far more meaningful choice. Captain Picard was willing to spare the Borg despite their universal hostility, they still had a right to exist he said. Will you spare the geth? Even if they're our enemies don't you think they had a right to defend themselves against the creators?

We got a half-and-half on that one in Mass Effect 2 with the "true geth" and the "heretic geth". You do have a point - could we really make the choice that we had to make at the end of Legion's loyalty mission if we couldn't ever feel sorry for them?

Actually I'd say you are totally off here. The geth were our primary antagonists and the quarians had a long history with them. Furthermore their "ambassador" in the game was vital to exposing Saren and advancing the plot. One of the mandatory crew members who couldn't die. For Cerberus I see no real foreshadowing at all. In fact the only remotely important plot point related them was the decision whether or not to give information to the Shadow Broker... something which wasn't even mentioned in ME2. As it stands in ME1 we didn't even know what Cerberus goals were, just that they were once part of the Alliance. Before reading Ascenson I assumed they had just become a mercenary outfit.

Also, I found that Tali's loyalty mission and my interactions with Legion were the only really important plot events in ME2, other than capturing the Collector base. Just further support in my mind that the plot should have focused on the geth and not some new force.

Tuchanka and Mordin's viewpoint on the genophage was an eye opener as well, and I loved the personification of the krogan as a result.

The Council believing Tali's story so quickly even though they've spent most of ME1 and ME2 denying the Reapers is a bit of a logical jump - but for plot purposes, it does help. Also, it's possible that Cerberus is still connected to the Alliance somehow - and the Corsairs are just a front for the Alliance to have more plausible deniability if a Cerberus member was caught.

I can see where you are coming from there, but I don't think it would really work. Maybe you'd have to alter a little dialog in ME1 to make that fit. It would be interesting to learn in ME2 that the rachni war was actually the Reaper's first attempt to re-take the galaxy after the Protheans muddled with the Citadel. Perhaps instead of Collectors we'd fight rachni, real rachni, not the naked infants we fought in ME1 but a technologically sophisticated force reminiscent of the arachnids in Starship Troopers. 
 

Actually, I think the Rachni Envoy said something about the Reapers indoctrinating them, as the Wiki speculates:

"This hints that there may have been more to the Rachni Wars than the Council was aware of. This is confirmed in Mass Effect 2, depending on whether you released the Queen, by a message given to Shepard by an asari who is in service to the newly freed Queen. The asari tells Shepard that the Queen believes Shepard is fighting the enemy who "soured" the rachni. She also states that the queen is building an army to fight them when they arrive in force, based on an otherwise unexplored planet. Shepard concludes that the message is referring to the Reapers, either through agents, such as the Collectors, or directly."

Much like the geth, the rachni are building their forces out of self-preservation against the upcoming Reaper Wars.

[Ecael]

smudboy wrote...

I'd argue what, but since this is merely an ego rub on your behalf, then fine.

I can keep this up.  How about you use your little ol brain and actually have a point to make hmm?  That'd be special.

You claim you use logic, reason and evidence, but you've just spent the last few hours insulting me - just as I expected.

As for my evidence? All the posts you just made on here. You've essentially been creating all the evidence necessary to prove yourself wrong.

Game over man, game over!

[smudboy]

Ecael wrote...

smudboy wrote...

I'd argue what, but since this is merely an ego rub on your behalf, then fine.

I can keep this up.  How about you use your little ol brain and actually have a point to make hmm?  That'd be special.

You claim you use logic, reason and evidence, but you've just spent the last few hours insulting me - just as I expected.

As for my evidence? All the posts you just made on here. You've essentially been creating all the evidence necessary to prove yourself wrong.

Game over man, game over!

Yes.  Not really.  I don't purposely do it, but you've yet to actually make any point.  I mean, have you?  Tell me then, and we'll discuss it.

And what am I proving exactly?  What is the topic?  See I call you a moron because, well, you're not saying anything reasonable.  Or voicing an opinion, and discussing it.  Your'e just...blabbing.  And I'm responding.  That's really all there is.

Game over...what?  Oh it's like a defense mechanism.  I got it.  Well, game over smud!  Yes!

[Christmas Ape]

Okay, this has progressed from a boxing match to the end of every game of Cops & Robbers ever.



"I so [verbally defeated] you!"

"Nuh-uh!"

"Oh, so did!"

"No you didn't!"



Do I have to call the recess monitor over?

[smudboy]

Christmas Ape wrote...

Okay, this has progressed from a boxing match to the end of every game of Cops & Robbers ever.

"I so [verbally defeated] you!"
"Nuh-uh!"
"Oh, so did!"
"No you didn't!"

Do I have to call the recess monitor over?

Maybe he/she/it could figure out the topic.  That'd help.  I'm still waiting for an argument or point to be made, or wtf Ecael was talking about when they responded to me first.

[NICKjnp]

Ecael wrote...

smudboy wrote...

I'd argue what, but since this is merely an ego rub on your behalf, then fine.

I can keep this up.  How about you use your little ol brain and actually have a point to make hmm?  That'd be special.

You claim you use logic, reason and evidence, but you've just spent the last few hours insulting me - just as I expected.

As for my evidence? All the posts you just made on here. You've essentially been creating all the evidence necessary to prove yourself wrong.

Game over man, game over!

Rather than "Game Over" I thought this would be more appropriate.

Modifié par NICKjnp, 23 juin 2010 - 01:51 .

[Christmas Ape]

smudboy wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

Okay, this has progressed from a boxing match to the end of every game of Cops & Robbers ever.

"I so [verbally defeated] you!"
"Nuh-uh!"
"Oh, so did!"
"No you didn't!"

Do I have to call the recess monitor over?

Maybe he/she/it could figure out the topic.  That'd help.  I'm still waiting for an argument or point to be made, or wtf Ecael was talking about when they responded to me first.

You only come off as some kind of icon of useful dialog in your own little fantasy version of this exchange, man. Deflection and dismissal does little to conceal the fact that the bulk of your offering is, in fact, emotion and ad hominem assaults.

Don't come crying to me, man, you're both part of this stupid little slapfight.

[smudboy]

Christmas Ape wrote...

smudboy wrote...

Christmas Ape wrote...

Okay, this has progressed from a boxing match to the end of every game of Cops & Robbers ever.

"I so [verbally defeated] you!"
"Nuh-uh!"
"Oh, so did!"
"No you didn't!"

Do I have to call the recess monitor over?

Maybe he/she/it could figure out the topic.  That'd help.  I'm still waiting for an argument or point to be made, or wtf Ecael was talking about when they responded to me first.

You only come off as some kind of icon of useful dialog in your own little fantasy version of this exchange, man. Deflection and dismissal does little to conceal the fact that the bulk of your offering is, in fact, emotion and ad hominem assaults.

Don't come crying to me, man, you're both part of this stupid little slapfight.

Honestly I still don't know what's going on.  I don't consider it a fight; I'm just responding.  And there's nothing wrong with calling someone a moron or a genius if that's what you think of them.

If someone or he/she/it had an actual point, I clearly missed it.  I'm still awaiting a rational argument.

[Onyx Jaguar]

I've seen this happen every single time.



DO CONTINUE HOWEVER

[Onyx Jaguar]

I agree with Shandepared and Reconteam



omfg

[ShepardWrex]

ITT: 2 stupids arguing over which one isnt an idiot


Smud should just ignore the manipulative bitch