716 réponses à ce sujet

[Soirreb]

ME1| During the Virmire mission, if you leave Kaidan with the Salarians and Ashley with the bomb, then choose to rescue Ashley and leave Kaidan behind, why are the Salarians present again on the Normandy?



ME2| How did the Collector ship know ahead of time exactly where the Normandy SR-1 would exit FTL?

[EricHVela]

Soirreb wrote...

ME2| How did the Collector ship know ahead of time exactly where the Normandy SR-1 would exit FTL?

Where was this? In the hour-long (not quite) intro, the Collector cruiser changes course. It would be reasonable that they simply stumbled onto each other. Given how the Collectors also employ tactics to lure people, it is also possible that those missing ships were simply bait for the Human SpecTRE and that they were just waiting where they were baiting. Again, the cruiser changed course after the Normandy arrived.

Or are you referring to another incident?

[thetruefreemo]

didymos1120 wrote...

thetruefreemo wrote...

ME1: Opening scene, it looks like the normandy's thrusters change position before using the relay. Why does it never do anything similar after that?

Watch the SR-1 die: you'll see similar movement in that cutscene.  It happens again here and there, but it's infrequent.  Why does this matter though?

ME2: On horizon, Ashly/Kaiden gets frozen in the opening cutscene. How did they manage to get unfrozen, not get abducted by the collectors, then magically appear at the end of the mission to make farewells to Shepard?

1. Not everyone was taken. You interrupted the process.
2. You see frozen people all over who haven't been crated yet.
3. Right next to them, you'll see filled containers. I.e., it's not a matter of "These ones in Quadrant XJ-50 go first, then those guys in Quadrant XJ-52, then..."
4.The seeker swarm is what's paralyzing people. 
5. It's clearly some kind of stasis field.  I.e., it must be actively maintained
6.  When the Collectors leave, so do the seekers

So, they weren't taken simply because the Collectors hadn't put them or a bunch of others in a box yet, and they unfroze because the swarm was gone.  Besides, the Collectors didn't actually care about Kaiden/Ash.  They just figured they might catch Sheps attention and hoped he would show. If not, they'd get another colony. 

And it also doesn't matter that Shep "cared more" about them or whatever. No matter what, Shep would still take the opportunity to board the ship or anything similar should it arise.  I mean, the whole point was saving human colonists and finding intel on the Collectors.  They knew that he was hunting for them. No need to resort to what would have been, esssentially, "Bring us ONE BILLION DOLLARS or the marine gets it! Mwahahahah!"  

And of course, if Shep did show up on Horizon, great!  Maybe we can capture him.  Maybe even alive, but whatever.

Eh, I just needed something from ME1 I didn't like. There's not a lot of those. And now the whole stasis field thing makes some sense. 

[didymos1120]

Izhalezan wrote...

MobiusTyr wrote...



RE: You can't be serious on this one... In Mass Effect you can't run around with 1 teammate it's not the way the game is coded. Kaiden or Ashley had to go with Kirahea. You can do better than that man...

Wrex and Tali?

Well, yeah, that makes three.  You can skip Garrus completely, and Liara can be left for after Virmire, so Wrex has to live so he can be in the squad.  It's a workaround due to code limitations, pure and simple.  Personally, I'd have just forced you to acquire everyone but Liara before leaving the Citadel, but for whatever reason, they didn't.  My guess is, they didn't even notice until some playtester broke the game by killing Wrex, and it was too late to rework the Citadel stuff.

[didymos1120]

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...

Ok, I have a big one: since Asari live up to 1000 years, and the Reapers come every 50,000 years, that means the Asari had around 50 generations since the last time, so how in the world did they manage to do so much, even going as far as being the first ones to find the Citadel this cycle. That just seems... impossible.

Some of this was already covered but:

That's not how generations work for one.  Most people don't have kids in the final year of their maximum natural lifespan.  For two, that's how long Asari can live, not how long every single Asari does live.  For three, you're actually complaining that people who live a thousand years will necessarily achieve less because they live that long? 

ETA: We also have no idea how much progress Asari civilization had made by the time the Prothean extinction was (mostly) complete.  They may have been pretty close to spaceflight.  I highly doubt it, but the point is that the Reapers wouldn't have cared. They only get rid of the mass relay-aware people, as far as we know, and leave the rest to develop as they will. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 25 juin 2010 - 04:37 .

[didymos1120]

Soirreb wrote...

ME1| During the Virmire mission, if you leave Kaidan with the Salarians and Ashley with the bomb, then choose to rescue
Ashley and leave Kaidan behind, why are the Salarians present again on the Normandy?

There were three Salarian teams, plus Shep's Shadow Team.  Kaiden/Ash were with one of those three teams.  I think it's also the case that a couple people from the doomed team do survive the geth attack at the AA tower, and make it back to the Normandy in time. Can't remember the dialogue offhand. Anyway, it's just decreed that Kaiden/Ash will never be one of them.  It's not like they didn't have any time to escape, what with that whole Geth+Saren fight at the bomb site.  You're just supposed to pretend that you saved more of them if you chose to go to the AA tower, even though the number who appear in the cargo bay is always the same.

ME2| How did the Collector ship know ahead of time exactly where the Normandy SR-1 would exit FTL?

Pressly says three ships went missing there in the last week, and geth could have been responsible. Shepard was tasked with mopping up Saren's geth, so they checked it out. I.e., it was bait.  Shep took it.  All the Collectors had to do was kick back somewhere in the system and watch with optical instruments, then move in when they wouldn't be noticed until it was too late,  and nail the ship.  Stealth doesn't make you invisible.  Plus, ships using standard FTL are actually quite noticeable. Yeah, the radiation will lag behind the ship, but they have to gradually decrease the FTL effect or they'll basically just disintegrate or get fried by all the excess energy that gets dumped, so there will still be some E-M signal at some frequency that can picked up in time to be useful as well as give you an idea of where to start looking.  

Modifié par didymos1120, 25 juin 2010 - 04:30 .

[KarmaTheAlligator]

didymos1120 wrote...

ETA: We also have no idea how much progress Asari civilization had made by the time the Prothean extinction was (mostly) complete.  They may have been pretty close to spaceflight.  I highly doubt it, but the point is that the Reapers wouldn't have cared. They only get rid of the mass relay-aware people, as far as we know, and leave the rest to develop as they will. 

The Reapers take care of any species sufficiently advanced (the humans were spared due to them being cavemen then), and if the asari were close to space flight they would have known about the Reapers being around at the time.

[Ecael]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

This is most definitely not a plothole, but those Avengers during certain cutscenes? Ugh....

That's simply being lazy with cutscenes.  Easier to just use the same animations and guns no matter who's in the squad.  It happened all the time in ME1 too.  Sometimes though, Shep would randomly whip out a different weapon.  There's one where during the dialogue, you'll get the shotgun out. You can end up in if combat, and then you have another conversation after winning, only now you're doing the Dirty Harry routine with a pistol. After it's over, Shep can then run around with the pistol drawn, but not be in the combat stance.    At least in ME2, the cutscenes don't actually make characters switch weapons.  HIghly annoying when Liara tries to use an assault rifle and decides not to acknowledge orders to change back to the pistol . 

But in ME1, no matter what weapons were drawn in a cutscene, you actually HAD those weapons attached to your back. In ME2, the Avengers AREN'T there in the first place, making it much less believable.

It appears that adding weapons to cutscenes was one of the things they did last, since they forgot to add them for a few...

Modifié par Ecael, 25 juin 2010 - 12:39 .

[CroGamer002]

Ecael wrote...

It appears that adding weapons to cutscenes was one of the things they did last, since they forgot to add them for a few...

Story nor gameplay isn't problem in Mass Effect 2.
It's animation laziness!

[Onyx Jaguar]

Actually thats sort of true...

[Ecael]

We need to find more invisible plotholes weapons!

Scavenger hunt!

Modifié par Ecael, 25 juin 2010 - 03:06 .

[didymos1120]

KarmaTheAlligator wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...

ETA: We also have no idea how much progress Asari civilization had made by the time the Prothean extinction was (mostly) complete.  They may have been pretty close to spaceflight.  I highly doubt it, but the point is that the Reapers wouldn't have cared. They only get rid of the mass relay-aware people, as far as we know, and leave the rest to develop as they will. 

The Reapers take care of any species sufficiently advanced (the humans were spared due to them being cavemen then), and if the asari were close to space flight they would have known about the Reapers being around at the time.

Why would they?  Unless stuff was taking place within just a couple light-years, and was very energetic, they'd fail to notice much at all.  Reapers are big, sure; space is f*cking huge.  I mean, did Earth notice all those Citadel species flitting about?  No, not even after first discovering mass relays. They had to activate a few and get noticed by a Turian patrol.   Also, Reapers typically don't go around glassing planets or detonating stars or other superweapony goodness.  They don't even bother with stuff like demolishing all the buildings on any given world. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 25 juin 2010 - 03:18 .

[CroGamer002]

Found one!

[NICKjnp]

Ecael wrote...

We need to find more invisible plotholes weapons!

Scavenger hunt!

On Garrus's loyalty mission, when you talk to the volus, whoever is your second squadmate will hold an "air shotgun".

[Foolsfolly]

On Miranda's Loyalty mission I brought Zaeed once and he was holding his assault rife (Vindicator at the time) like a pistol or SMG. It was ridiculous enough for me to remember it still all these weeks later.

[CroGamer002]

Foolsfolly wrote...

On Miranda's Loyalty mission I brought Zaeed once and he was holding his assault rife (Vindicator at the time) like a pistol or SMG. It was ridiculous enough for me to remember it still all these weeks later.

Everyone without pistol does that.

[thetruefreemo]

Mesina2 wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

On Miranda's Loyalty mission I brought Zaeed once and he was holding his assault rife (Vindicator at the time) like a pistol or SMG. It was ridiculous enough for me to remember it still all these weeks later.

Everyone without pistol does that.

You mean like that one glitch in ME1 where wrex would have his snipe rifle in hand at the same time as another weapon. 

[Ecael]

thetruefreemo wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

On Miranda's Loyalty mission I brought Zaeed once and he was holding his assault rife (Vindicator at the time) like a pistol or SMG. It was ridiculous enough for me to remember it still all these weeks later.

Everyone without pistol does that.

You mean like that one glitch in ME1 where wrex would have his snipe rifle in hand at the same time as another weapon. 

Zaeed does that during his loyalty mission sometimes as well.

...Maybe it's intended since they're both badass.

[Zulu_DFA]

Ecael wrote...

thetruefreemo wrote...

Mesina2 wrote...

Foolsfolly wrote...

On Miranda's Loyalty mission I brought Zaeed once and he was holding his assault rife (Vindicator at the time) like a pistol or SMG. It was ridiculous enough for me to remember it still all these weeks later.

Everyone without pistol does that.

You mean like that one glitch in ME1 where wrex would have his snipe rifle in hand at the same time as another weapon. 

Zaeed does that during his loyalty mission sometimes as well.

...Maybe it's intended since they're both badass.

 
Zaeed with the Revenant held like a pistol looks badass indeed!
 
Wow, what a heluva thread, BTW!
 
May I ask a question though? Is it serious about
 

Ecael wrote...
This thread is to discuss plot holes apparent in Mass Effect 1 and 2 and to attempt to solve them as if they were puzzles the writers left behind.

 
… or it’s all about
 

Ecael wrote...
· If you wish to post a plot hole, you MUST post two - one for EACH game - to avoid being called out for bias.

?
 
Is it an attempt to present both games as equally cheesy, in terms of plotholes, at least?
 
Because, you know, it’s just not so. They are not equally cheesy. The “2” is many much more cheesier. And that’s PERIOD!

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 25 juin 2010 - 11:08 .

[Ecael]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Wow, what a heluva thread, BTW!
 
May I ask a question though? Is it serious about
 

Ecael wrote...
This thread is to discuss plot holes apparent in Mass Effect 1 and 2 and to attempt to solve them as if they were puzzles the writers left behind.

 
… or it’s all about
 

Ecael wrote...
· If you wish to post a plot hole, you MUST post two - one for EACH game - to avoid being called out for bias.

?
 
Is it an attempt to present both games as equally cheesy, in terms of plotholes, at least?
 
Because, you know, it’s just not so. They are not equally cheesy. The “2” is many much more cheesier. And that’s PERIOD!

It's both.

Mass Effect 2 may be cheesier, but they're both equally high in sodium content.

It's breakin' immershuns and arteries at the same time.

[Ecael]

Found another one!

[CroGamer002]

Ecael wrote...

Found another one!

Is that Vido?

[Kurt M.]

[*][quote]ME2 | 2. Why didn't the Collectors try to abduct the Normandy SR-1 crew instead of destroy them?[/quote]Maybe they thought a few more free humans to feed the Human Reaper would well worth the risk of boarding the Normandy. Or maybe they wanted to capture Shepard, too.
[quote]ME1 | 3. Couldn't the Turian Councilor accuse Shepard and Tali of pre-recording Saren's voiceprint during the "trial" and modifying it to say what they want (like in Kasumi's DLC)?[/quote]Sincerely, I thought exactly the same the first time I saw the scene where they showed the evidence to the Council. But I guess that in the future there must be something like today's cryptographic hash functions (like MD5, SHA1, etc) applied to identities and voices. Tali's recordings had those signs, so the Councilors accepted them as true without hesitation.
[quote]ME2 | 8. Why wasn't Shepard and Jacob more suspicious of the fact that Wilson was in a room by himself with human corpses and a wounded leg?[/quote]I don't see how that situation could be suspicious. It's not odd to find sole survivors in combat situations like that. Besides, Shepard just came out of a two-years comma, and apart from the general confusion he should have had, he had no clue about "allies" or "enemies" at that current time, and Jacob was...well, a bit too much simple-minded to think that Wilson could be a traitor.
[quote]ME2 | 12. Why didn't Warden Kuril in Purgatory wait until Shepard and squad stepped INSIDE the cell before closing it on them?[/quote]Well, I think anyone would find "odd" to expect a passageway leading into another chamber behind that door, and not an empty and very small room.... The real question should be...why they didn't take the effort to put inside a fake electronic panel, so that cell looks like a common elevator, and fool them?
[quote]ME2 | 14. If Garrus knew how to take down a gunship in one shot, why didn't he do that the second time instead of shooting at all the offloaded mercs?[/quote]It'd take a great dose of accuracy, concentration and luck to do so, and maybe he couldn't afford the first two with all those mercs deploying. Maybe he didn't had to fight them the first time he faced the gunship, and thus he was able to aim to a sensitive part of it without any major problem. Tarak learned the lesson, and then he used deployed troops the 2nd time, in order to open an additional frontline to Archangel to prevent him for doing that again.
[quote]ME1 | 15. If the Mako's jets only work for a few seconds, how does it get back to the Normandy without forcing the Normandy to land?[/quote]With a giant magnet? [quote]ME1 | 17. If the Mako can't fire upwards and has limited mobility, why didn't combat drones just hover over the Mako and fire at it from above?[/quote]They should lack the capacity of doing logical thoughts and tactics like that. Remember that a single geth has the same intelligence as a varren, and the most numerous group of combat drones I've ever seen are 3 or 4 together.
[quote]ME1 | 19. Why didn't Saren destroy the second beacon on Virmire after using it to prevent Shepard from doing the same?[/quote]Same question should be made to the beacon of Eden Prime...although he already commanded to the geth to destroy all the place with the charges. I guess that he simply thought Shepard would never find it in the facility, that it wouldn't care if he found it as it was a mere copy of the message of the beacon of Eden Prime (as it seems to be), or simply that Saren forgot about the beacon.
[quote]ME1 | 21. If Shepard chose to go to the AA Tower, why didn't Saren and the geth just eliminate whoever stayed back at the bomb site and either disable or take the bomb out of the facility?[/quote]They have tried that indeed. Remember Kaidan fighting till his last breath? And Saren probably just wanted to face Shepard, so that's why he sent the troops against the bombing site, while he was fighting Shepard instead. That would also explain why there's Saren alone fighting you, and not him with an army of geth.
[quote]ME2 | 24. How did they know the Derelict Reaper was 37 million years old, if the Council was incapable of testing any of Sovereign's parts?[/quote]Cerberus probably got that data from their own scientists, not the Alliance. Remember that a Cerberus team was previously sent to investigate the Reaper before Shepard's team went in.
[quote]ME1 | 27. On Therum, if there were so many enemies (including underground), why didn't any of them use the mining laser first to get around the barrier?[/quote]Maybe they were smarter (or more coward) than Shepard's team and got into the conclusion that doing that would certainly bury them. Plus, if I remember well, at least the krogan platoon wanted to take Liara alive. Surely the geth, too.
[quote]ME1 | 33. If hanar are allowed to roam on the Presidium, where is their Embassy and where is the Hanar Ambassador?[/quote]We just haven't gone into it. You could say the same about the drell, too.
[quote]ME2 | 36. After the Mass Effect core was destroyed in the Derelict Reaper and they floated over to the Normandy (suggesting the Reaper no longer has its own gravity), why didn't they immediately start falling into Mnemosyne instead?[/quote]I think the ship did INDEED started falling into Mnemosyne. But there's simply not enough time (and gravity) between the destruction of the core and Shepard's team leaving the Reaper for that to be even noticeable.

[Kurt M.]

ME2 | 40. Why does Grunt die as Second Fire Team Leader because his shields went down (he has armor, not shields)?

You can have both armor AND shields. And bullets can pierce thought armor, while kinetic barriers have to go down in order to anything pass though them (AFAIK, although that loser of Jenkins (JERKins? )' death could dismiss my argument ).

ME2 | 42. Why didn't the diversion team (the one without the biotic barrier) get attacked by massive amounts of seeker swarms?

I think the seeker swarms just weren't in that zone. We must presume the zones in the Collector base are isolated one from another.

ME2 | 46. Why are Tali and Garrus (and all the aliens on the ship) more trusting of Shepard working with Cerberus than Ashley and Kaidan?

Because you can't expect nothing else from two blind self-righteous jerks who dare to affirm that "Cerberus may be working with the Collectors" even after seeing a battle where you and your team bled the hell out fighting against endless waves of husks, collectors, and even a Praetorian. Just F*** THEM!.

Modifié par Gladiador2, 26 juin 2010 - 04:54 .

[Ecael]

Mesina2 wrote...

Ecael wrote...

Found another one!

Is that Vido?

Yup. Holding his invisible weapon before getting shot in the leg.