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[ThemFlashlight-headedThings]

me2- In the comic with Aria meeting the collectors it says that Freedom's Progress has almost a million colonists, it would have taken the collectors months to abduct that many colonists.Why couldn't someone send a distress signal after all that time? The collectors would need to have a ridiculously powerful jammer (strawberry at the least

Modifié par ThemFlashlight-headedThings, 10 août 2010 - 06:25 .

[ADLegend21]

hmmmm that's interesting....

[brgillespie]

ME2 | 4. How DID Shepard's body remain intact during the descent into Alchera or his orbit around it?

Remained intact? I don't really think it did. Taking a glance at the x-ray image of Shepard's remains (in the movie scene that plays after the prologue sequence and the Mass Effect 2 title) shows some massive skeletal damage. There seems to be not a single bone that isn't at least fractured, and whole chunks of Shep's bone structure are missing.

I guess the armor - which we know provided as least limited protection in extremely hazardous environments, judging by the "class 3/class 1 Hazard" conditions you sometimes experienced when exiting the Mako in Mass Effect 1 - held the pieces somewhat together. Hell, the helmet survived.

When Miranda first sees what's left of Shepard she completely doubts the project's viability (the traitor dude convinces her that it's possible). She also discusses that straight-up tissue regeneration was taking too long (tissue *regeneration*, as in growing back stuff that's gone) and they resorted to "bio/synthetic fusion". In other words, cybernectics. Jacob also mentions that when Shepard was first brought in, he/she wasn't really recognizable as a "human body". To me, those were clues that his body wasn't really "intact".

Also, the human body has a terminal velocity of 120 mph at lower Earth atmospheric pressure. I'm not sure how Alchera's atmosphere compared to Earth's, but Shepard wouldn't have impacted all THAT hard. Objects slow down the higher the air pressure gets ("the thicker the air"). One Air Force test pilot jumped off a high-altitude air balloon near the edge of space. His initial falling velocity was much, much higher than 120 mph because the air was thinner. Once he hit lower altitude, his airspeed slowed down.

Modifié par brgillespie, 26 août 2010 - 03:49 .

[Zulu_DFA]

brgillespie wrote...

ME2 | 4. How DID Shepard's body remain intact during the descent into Alchera or his orbit around it?

HOW SHEPARD SURVIVED THE CRASH

[Fiery Phoenix]

I am still of the opinion that Shepard was already dead by the time she started descending into Alchera's upper atmospheric layer.

[Zulu_DFA]

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I am still of the opinion that Shepard was already dead by the time she started descending into Alchera's upper atmospheric layer.

You're referring to the cutscene, aren't you? Where Shepard allegedly loses consciousness. But an ordinary person would not lose consciousness that fast. Test yourself: exhale all the air from your lungs and hold your nose. That's not pleasant, but you'll be able to hold up for at least 30 seconds. That's more than it takes in the cutscene for Shepard to "pass out". Hence, Shepard does not pass out. The suit autoseals and repressurizes itself, which is, I suppose, a feature of the Alliance Marines' hardsuits that are designed for combat in space. Then Shepard finds a way to propell himsel back to the Normandy's wreck.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 26 août 2010 - 05:16 .

[Killjoy Cutter]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I am still of the opinion that Shepard was already dead by the time she started descending into Alchera's upper atmospheric layer.

You're referring to the cutscene, aren't you? Where Shepard allegedly loses consciousness. But an ordinary person would not lose consciousness that fast. Test yourself: exhale all the air from your lungs and hold your nose. That's not pleasant, but you'll be able to hold up for at least 30 seconds. That's more than it takes in the cutscene for Shepard to "pass out". Hence, Shepard does not pass out. The suit autoseals and repressurizes itself, which is, I suppose, a feature of the Alliance Marines' hardsuits that are designed for combat in space. Then Shepard finds a way to propell himsel back to the Normandy's wreck.

My copy must have a bug in that cutscene, because it ends before Shephard finds a way to get back to the Normandy's burning hulk.

[Zulu_DFA]

Killjoy Cutter wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I am still of the opinion that Shepard was already dead by the time she started descending into Alchera's upper atmospheric layer.

You're referring to the cutscene, aren't you? Where Shepard allegedly loses consciousness. But an ordinary person would not lose consciousness that fast. Test yourself: exhale all the air from your lungs and hold your nose. That's not pleasant, but you'll be able to hold up for at least 30 seconds. That's more than it takes in the cutscene for Shepard to "pass out". Hence, Shepard does not pass out. The suit autoseals and repressurizes itself, which is, I suppose, a feature of the Alliance Marines' hardsuits that are designed for combat in space. Then Shepard finds a way to propell himsel back to the Normandy's wreck.

My copy must have a bug in that cutscene, because it ends before Shephard finds a way to get back to the Normandy's burning hulk.

No, there is no bug. Just that part's budget eventually went to "The Loyalist" promo vid.

[brgillespie]

Zulu, not quite.

Losing suit integrity in the vacuum of space (of which Shepard had a problem, going from the air vapor being expelled from various ruptures in his/her suit) is very different from simply exhaling the air from your lungs. For a real world example, the astronauts in the Challenger shuttle disaster were very much alive after the explosion, but if the cabin had depressurized at the altitude they were at (about 65,000 feet above the surface), consciousness would only have lasted about 10 seconds as their emergency air packs fed them unpressurized air.

There's a very good reason that in the event of a cabin depressurization aboard a jet airliner you are to afix your oxygen mask BEFORE assisting anyone else. You do not have long before you slip into unconsciousness.

The other stuff you've linked to is pure fiction. Shepard stops moving seconds before hitting the atmosphere (you can see the heat from the friction as he/she disappears from view, showing that the body has hit the atmosphere and is beginning its descent).

[brgillespie]

For the possible effects of a human being in a "hard vacuum" (zero PSI), go here:



http://imagine.gsfc....ers/970603.html



Shepard wasn't instantly dead, but he was unconscious by the time he hit atmosphere.

[Zulu_DFA]

The problem with low pressure in the airliner case is that as you continue to breathe, you don't notice that anything's wrong (other that it takes deeper breaths to fill you lungs with air), while the anoxia gradually takes place, so you pass out all of a sudden, hence the procedures. But the crew is probably instructed to undertake some emergency procedures before putting their masks on -- at least assess damage and calm down the already masked passangers, that everething's under control.

Don't know about the Challenger, but there is no reason to pass out in vacuum faster than at 1 atmosphere. And the material linked by yourelf corroborates it: "Various minor problems (sunburn, possibly "the bends", certainly some [mild, reversible, painless] swelling of skin and underlying tissue) start after 10 seconds or so. At some point you lose consciousness from lack of oxygen." So it's "at some point" past 10 seconds, with "the point" most probably varying between people. With the average probably around 30 to 40 seconds.

And you can't exactly "hit" the atmosphere.

And whatever that glow in the cutscene was, it has been dev-confirmed (in the "BioWare, you need a retcon" thread), that Shepard would not experience any friction/overheat problems, because by the time Shepard came for Joker, the Normandy was not "in orbit", that is, was not circling the planet at unimaginably high speed, but was rather falling down at 90 degrees.

EDIT: After a little more research, I have to concede, that 10 seconds is the right average time of loosing consciousness in such circumstances. Still that leaves us where we started. If Shepard passed out and died right there, up "in orbit", he would be unsalvageable and unresurrectable. Hence, even if he did pass out, the suit sealed and repressurized itself, Shepard regained cosciousness and found a way to survive until not long before being put into that stasis pod.

Modifié par Zulu_DFA, 26 août 2010 - 09:34 .

[Sago_mulch]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

The problem with low pressure in the airliner case is that as you continue to breathe, you don't notice that anything's wrong (other that it takes deeper breaths to fill you lungs with air), while the anoxia gradually takes place, so you pass out all of a sudden, hence the procedures. But the crew is probably instructed to undertake some emergency procedures before putting their masks on -- at least assess damage and calm down the already masked passangers, that everething's under control.

Don't know about the Challenger, but there is no reason to pass out in vacuum faster than at 1 atmosphere. And the material linked by yourelf corroborates it: "Various minor problems (sunburn, possibly "the bends", certainly some [mild, reversible, painless] swelling of skin and underlying tissue) start after 10 seconds or so. At some point you lose consciousness from lack of oxygen." So it's "at some point" past 10 seconds, with "the point" most probably varying between people. With the average probably around 30 to 40 seconds.

And you can't exactly "hit" the atmosphere.

And whatever that glow in the cutscene was, it has been dev-confirmed (in the "BioWare, you need a retcon" thread), that Shepard would not experience any friction/overheat problems, because by the time Shepard came for Joker, the Normandy was not "in orbit", that is, was not circling the planet at unimaginably high speed, but was rather falling down at 90 degrees.

EDIT: After a little more research, I have to concede, that 10 seconds is the right average time of loosing consciousness in such circumstances. Still that leaves us where we started. If Shepard passed out and died right there, up "in orbit", he would be unsalvageable and unresurrectable. Hence, even if he passed out, thу suit did sealed and repressurised itself, Shepard regained cosciousness and found a way to survive until not long before being put into that stasis pod.

maybe shepard is protected by david gaiders writing skills(lol)

[Fiery Phoenix]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

FieryPhoenix7 wrote...

I am still of the opinion that Shepard was already dead by the time she started descending into Alchera's upper atmospheric layer.

You're referring to the cutscene, aren't you? Where Shepard allegedly loses consciousness. But an ordinary person would not lose consciousness that fast. Test yourself: exhale all the air from your lungs and hold your nose. That's not pleasant, but you'll be able to hold up for at least 30 seconds. That's more than it takes in the cutscene for Shepard to "pass out". Hence, Shepard does not pass out. The suit autoseals and repressurizes itself, which is, I suppose, a feature of the Alliance Marines' hardsuits that are designed for combat in space. Then Shepard finds a way to propell himsel back to the Normandy's wreck.

I know it takes a while; after all, our bodies store a lot of heat, and if you have the right amount of oxygen supply but are still exposing your body to the vacuum of space, it will take some time until you're dead of heat loss (i.e. freezing). But it seems to me that Shepard died of oxygen loss, and it appears to have happened pretty quick. But I really don't know. Also, can we be sure that the cutscene was actually in real time?

[brgillespie]

He wasn't dead, he was unconscious. The fall killed him.

I'm not sure where you're getting this fantastical story about regaining consciousness and getting back into a "stasis pod", unless you're straight-up trolling. Jacob explicitly states that you were nothing much more than "meat and tubes", along with my aforementioned examples of Miranda herself doubting the project's viability considering how badly damaged Shepard's remains were. Wilson is the one who convinced her that it was possible "to recover" your remains. One would also have to wonder why Shepard finds his old N7 helmet down on Achura's surface amongst the Normandy's wreckage... unless he jettisoned his helmet out of the "stasis pod/Joker's escape pod/whatever" for some asinine reason. The image of his skeletal structure before the Lazarus project reconstruction begins shows massive damage that leads one to a logical conclusion that the damage was suffered from an extreme fall. Skeletons aren't broken like shattered glass from simply sitting in orbit.

Modifié par brgillespie, 27 août 2010 - 10:28 .

[MuteSpeech]

for number 23: geth hadnt been seen outside of the veil for how many years? its feasible that they didn't know how to scan for geth tech.



36: i think the core destroyed the massive gravity the reaper had to keep it in orbit in the planet and caused it to collapse, but that all the tech maintained a limited field of gravity in its immediate vicinity. they are able to run while on it.

[CroGamer002]

Wilson is no longer plothole.

He is Shadow Broker agent.

[coffeemugjeff]

In LOTSB we see the video of Grunt attacking a Eclipse mercenary. But wasn`t the planet Okeer was controled by the blue suns? When would they have the time to have taken Grunt out get him off planet kill a eclipse mercenary and putting back in the tank?

[CroGamer002]

coffeemugjeff wrote...

In LOTSB we see the video of Grunt attacking a Eclipse mercenary. But wasn`t the planet Okeer was controled by the blue suns? When would they have the time to have taken Grunt out get him off planet kill a eclipse mercenary and putting back in the tank?

Maybe Eclipse Merc was a spy?

[coffeemugjeff]

Mesina2 wrote...
Maybe Eclipse Merc was a spy?

But if Grunt, was fully operational back then and for argument sake okeer placed him back in the tank and wiped his memory of the event. "I think Grunt would have been proud of his first kill".

Why would okeer sacrifice himself for the pod? Grunt was obiviously ready, he could have taken grunt out an said ok go to the area without gas. It seems more to me originaly, Okeer was strugling do last minute calibration to make sure Grunt would live and complete , then the gas killed him.

[didymos1120]

coffeemugjeff wrote...

In LOTSB we see the video of Grunt attacking a Eclipse mercenary. 

The broker VI tells you the footage is from Ilium.  Just assume it's what he got up to while waiting for you to recruit Thane or whatever.

[coffeemugjeff]

didymos1120 wrote...

coffeemugjeff wrote...

In LOTSB we see the video of Grunt attacking a Eclipse mercenary. 

The broker VI tells you the footage is from Ilium.  Just assume it's what he got up to while waiting for you to recruit Thane or whatever.

Well that solves that    I`m happy the crew get a shore leave of sort. But yeah, if Grunt attacks random ennemies on his own volition might cause some issues later on with local authorities.

[CroGamer002]

Well I still never saw that vid... yet.

[Mir5]

Okay,

On the Collector base or ship. Someone states basically: "There are so many pods. They are going to target earth."
Uhh, and how do you know that? If a Collector ship got beaten by 3 elite soldiers and handful of cannons, what chance would they have on any major world?

And to stick to the rules... Mass1.
Maybe the genetic variance? Wasn't it in the first game, right? It ain't as much of a plot hole as it is just poor writing but I'm gonna roll with it.
Why would species with more numbers and multiple generations passed in alien habitats have less genetic variability? With quarians that might make sense since they live in sterile environments and have controlled breeding. But the others?

Also: wouldn't it be smart to mass the answers to one post, so that newcomers wouldn't have to skim through 25 pages? Like in the first post?

Modifié par Mir5, 12 septembre 2010 - 12:10 .

[didymos1120]

Mir5 wrote...

Okay,

On the Collector base or ship. Someone states basically: "There are so many pods. They are going to target earth."
Uhh, and how do you know that? If a Collector ship got beaten by 3 elite soldiers and handful of cannons, what chance would they have on any major world?

It's really just a shocked reaction to seeing what the thing could hold at full capacity.  I don't know why people insist on treating this line as anything more than that.  But OK, let's do that anyway: there were no 3 soldiers beating any ship.  They beat some things inside that ship with a lot of assistance from an AI who was running interference for them, and they were only on that ship in the first place because they were allowed and encouraged by the owners of the vessel to do just that.  The trap failed; the ship itself? Just fine and dandy. 

And, consider that they don't yet know that it's just the one ship, period.  All they know is it's the same one they saw before on Horizon, and the one that attacked the SR-1.  They still thought the Collectors had an entire, fully-populated homeworld at that point and assumed the thing with the colonies was just the warm-up phase. 

Lastly, they did know for sure by then that the Collectors work for the Reapers.  You know, the fleet of sentient starships residing in dark space? One of whom owned the hell out of the Citadel forces without even really trying?  For all they knew, the Reapers would be here by the time Earth Invasion Day came along, and they would be the ones handling the pew pew pew stuff.

[heretica]

ME2 | 4. How DID Shepard's body remain intact during the descent into Alchera or his orbit around it?

It was not intact. In fact someone mentions in the comics that it was hard to tell if it was a man or a woman... :S

Modifié par Catt128, 12 septembre 2010 - 12:38 .