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[didymos1120]

Praetor Shepard wrote...
In Biotics, eezo using an electrical current to work without a proton in the nucleus

I never understood this hang-up.  It's obviously some form of stable exotic matter, and it interacts with E-M in a unique way.  It doesn't need to have protons or electrons to interact with charge carriers.  That's not even true of all sorts of stuff we actually know about (and put to use) in the real world.    And you can't really expect a whole lot of detail about what this stuff is actually doing on a quantum level.  You just have to accept that that's how it works.  It's just an axiom of the ME setting.  And you can't fixate on the "element" part either, because the very fact that it's called "element ZERO" tells you it's not a chemical element at all. And as you'll notice, the Codex says it's "generated" from solid matter, not that it is normal solid matter.

[Phaedon]

didymos1120 wrote...
And you can't fixate on the "element" part either, because the very fact that it's called "element ZERO" tells you it's not a chemical element at all.

I get what you mean, maybe they changed the definition of 'element' in the future?

[didymos1120]

Phaedon wrote...

didymos1120 wrote...
And you can't fixate on the "element" part either, because the very fact that it's called "element ZERO" tells you it's not a chemical element at all.

I get what you mean, maybe they changed the definition of 'element' in the future?

I think the idea behind the name is that it's supposed to be a bit of half-serious jargon that stuck. 

"What do we call this stuff?"

"I don't know. I mean, it's made in supernovas and it's kinda like a metal, but it's not, you know, made of actual atoms.  No atomic number, you see?"

"Yeah. Wait...no atomic number.... 'Element Zero'?"

"Catchy."

Something like that.  You'd have to ask whichever writer actually came up with the idea, though.

[Praetor Knight]

didymos1120 wrote...

I never understood this hang-up.  It's obviously some form of stable exotic matter, and it interacts with E-M in a unique way.  It doesn't need to have protons or electrons to interact with charge carriers.  That's not even true of all sorts of stuff we actually know about (and put to use) in the real world.    And you can't really expect a whole lot of detail about what this stuff is actually doing on a quantum level.  You just have to accept that that's how it works.  It's just an axiom of the ME setting.  And you can't fixate on the "element" part either, because the very fact that it's called "element ZERO" tells you it's not a chemical element at all. And as you'll notice, the Codex says it's "generated" from solid matter, not that it is normal solid matter.

Yeah, that's why I said it was really nitpicky, and went back some stuff I looked at before, and I found something potentially interesting.

The wiki pages gives Eezo an Atomic Number of zero and a Chemical Symbol of Ez, where so far the Codex does not have that info.

So I think the wiki needs to be updated with removing that unnecessarily confusing info, if that info does not exist in other official ME universe material.

Here are the wiki's (not sure why there are two entries either, with practically the same info):
http://masseffect.wikia.com/wiki/Eezo
http://masseffect.wi...ki/Element_zero

Codex entry
http://masseffect.wi...28.22Eezo.22.29


Edit: Well never tried editing before, but just finished editing the wiki page on eezo! Lancer1289 changed it back, ok so there is supposed to be secondary source material that calls Element Zero an element so that is why there is an Atomic Number and Chemical Symbol given on the wiki page for eezo.

Now just have to find that source to confirm.

Modifié par Praetor Shepard, 04 janvier 2011 - 07:22 .

[Phaedon]

didymos1120 wrote...
I think the idea behind the name is that it's supposed to be a bit of half-serious jargon that stuck.  

"What do we call this stuff?"

"I don't know. I mean, it's made in supernovas and it's kinda like a metal, but it's not, you know, made of actual atoms.  No atomic number, you see?"

"Yeah. Wait...no atomic number.... 'Element Zero'?"

"Catchy."

Something like that.  You'd have to ask whichever writer actually came up with the idea, though.

I actually have a theory on this:

Neutronium is a proposed name for a substance composed purely out of neutrons. The word was coined by scientist Andreas von Antropoff in 1926 (before the discovery of the neutron itself) for the conjectured "element of atomic number zero" that he placed at the head of the periodic table

"element of atomic number zero"

"element of number zero"

"element number zero"

"element zero"

Tadaaa

[didymos1120]

Phaedon wrote...
I actually have a theory on this:

Yeah, here's the problem with "neutronium".  It'd be made of the rather well understood neutron, which is neutral and doesn't really interact with charge (not measurably anyway), much less dark energy (which, admittedly, is not well understood, but that doesn't really help).  Also, it's made of neutrons.  I know I'm repeating myself, but there's a reason: that only works (maybe) if you've got a nice strong gravity field to hold it together, at least if you're talking about something kinda close to the popular SF conception of "neutronium". 

Anyway, we're talking about something that could only exist in the conditions present in, well, a neutron star (and it's not certain that it actually does exist, even in those conditions).  If you somehow actually managed to remove a chunk of one (and good luck with that), it'd just fly apart in a very energetic and user-unfriendly fashion.

If instead you're talking relatively small groups of neutrons that are bound, then the problem is those groups would be unstable and decay in fairly short order.  And then the individual neutrons would themselves decay shortly after that, unless some nucleus captured them.  Plus, those groups would be pretty damn small.  Double-digits at most.

Basically, no matter what version of the "neutronium" concept you pick, it doesn't have the properties ascribed to eezo and wouldn't behave the way eezo is said to behave.  Better to say "Eezo is eezo is eezo" and just roll with it.

Modifié par didymos1120, 03 janvier 2011 - 10:26 .

[Phaedon]

didymos1120 wrote...
Yeah, here's the problem with "neutronium".  It'd be made of the rather well understood neutron, which is neutral and doesn't really interact with charge (not measurably anyway), much less dark energy (which, admittedly, is not well understood, but that doesn't really help).  Also, it's made of neutrons.  I know I'm repeating myself, but there's a reason: that only works (maybe) if you've got a nice strong gravity field to hold it together, at least if you're talking about something kinda close to the popular SF conception of "neutronium".  

Anyway, we're talking about something that could only exist in the conditions present in, well, a neutron star (and it's not certain that it actually does exist, even in those conditions).  If you somehow actually managed to remove a chunk of one (and good luck with that), it'd just fly apart in a very energetic and user-unfriendly fashion.

If instead you're talking relatively small groups of neutrons that are bound, then the problem is those groups would be unstable and decay in fairly short order.  And then the individual neutrons would themselves decay shortly after that, unless some nucleus captured them.  Plus, those groups would be pretty damn small.  Double-digits at most.

Basically, no matter what version of the "neutronium" concept you pick, it doesn't have the properties ascribed to eezo and wouldn't behave the way eezo is said to behave.  Better to say "Eezo is eezo is eezo" and just roll with it.

I am not saying the eezo is neutronium, but that's probably where Bioware (maybe the in-game world too?) picked the name from.

I don't think that eezo could be explained with today's scientific knowledge anyway.

[didymos1120]

Phaedon wrote...
I am not saying the eezo is neutronium, but that's probably where Bioware (maybe the in-game world too?) picked the name from.

I don't think that eezo could be explained with today's scientific knowledge anyway.

Oh, sorry. Misunderstood there. I've actually seen neutronium put forward as literally being the same as eezo, so I was kinda primed to misinterpret.  You're probably right about it being the origin of the term.

Modifié par didymos1120, 06 janvier 2011 - 09:35 .

[Drakxii]

I support this thread



Two from me...



ME1: Why is the Normandy never used to blast things on the ground? You could have easily blasted the creeper from space, or Saren on IIos, or to blow up the terrorists as the leave the moon, etcc.... Does the Normandy guns only work on Reapers and their allies?



ME2: Why doesn't Cereburs or the Alliance mine the area around the Omega 4 rely? The collectors appear out of it raid/do business and then use it to leave. A few 100 space mines or a few 12 cruisers should be more then enough to blast anyone coming to the rely or appearing at it.

[Darth Hater]

Drakxii wrote...

I support this thread

Two from me...

ME1: Why is the Normandy never used to blast things on the ground? You could have easily blasted the creeper from space, or Saren on IIos, or to blow up the terrorists as the leave the moon, etcc.... Does the Normandy guns only work on Reapers and their allies?

ME2: Why doesn't Cereburs or the Alliance mine the area around the Omega 4 rely? The collectors appear out of it raid/do business and then use it to leave. A few 100 space mines or a few 12 cruisers should be more then enough to blast anyone coming to the rely or appearing at it.

Your ME1 question has been asked a thousand times. It's just a gameplay reason. It wouldn't really make you have any consequences if you...let the bad guys go to save the hostages, and then watch the bad guys get blown out of the sky by the Normandy. Who needs to bother with a ground confrontation with the geth, when you can just blow them away with a strafing run.

In referencec to the ME2 question: the Alliance doesn't have any interest in the Collectors. They don't even know they exist. Cerberus is a Black Ops "Terrorist" orginization that no one wants around. They don't have a few cruisers lying around to have them patrol a mass relay for God knows how long. Space mines...well...do we even have space mines?

[Luekas]

great thread, really had me laughing in a few places, but a lot of this stuff is less 'plot hole' and more 'asperger's syndrome'.



I did wonder about the Normandy in the second game though.



In the first game you really feel like your in a tiny little stealth ship and you really need to avoid a stand up fight, but It bugs me that you get this great big battleship in the second game ( and even upgrade its shields and weapons!) and than have to run in on foot or in a little tank all the time. It would been so cool to have an ability to call in Joker for a bombing run or something. You know, just nuke something from orbit; make the crew earn their pay and gourmet food.



We have that nuke heavy weapon in ME2 so it's not like the game can't handle crazy awesome explosions.

[Mariquis]

ME1 For the first game I was pretty sure that the mass relays just ...affected the mass of the object propelling it through space at light speed. But the conduit --> citadel relay acts as a teleporter. Not only do Saren and the geth manage to go through the conduit (on foot!) even though the citadel is supposed to be completely closed off. But as mentioned, they were on foot! Not even in the mako like Shepard. If they were flung through space at light speed they would not only need to somehow magically teleport inside the citadel, but they would also have to /not die/ when thrown through open space at light speed.
ME2) EDIT: I only just realized how long this thread is, and someone has probably mentioned the costume problems with some people in which case I make an amendment!  The gravity in the collector base (ambush).  In Legion's mission we see stuff kind of floating around a bit, and most other stuff is nailed down, when something dies they drift bonelessly. But during the collector ambush, despite the fact that you go in through what's basically a hole in the ship not only is there clearly gravity but the collectors (which are clearly alive) are not equiped for exposure.   Why is the collector ship treated like an enclosed environment (with oxygen and gravity) when it is clearly not (you walk in through a giant hole in the side of the ship)

Modifié par Mariquis, 14 janvier 2011 - 08:59 .

[didymos1120]

Mariquis wrote...

ME1 For the first game I was pretty sure that the mass relays just ...affected the mass of the object propelling it through space at light speed.

No, the relays have always effectively "teleported" things (though it's not an actual "dissappear here, reappear there" situation. It just has practically the same result).  The trip is pretty much instantaneous between the two, though it takes a few moments for it to fling you, and a few more moments get added on for the "catching" done by the other relay. 

Also, think about if for a moment:  if they couldn't fling you through any intervening matter, they'd be useless.  There's just too much stuff in the galaxy and the relays transport you over too great of distances for the paths to always be obstruction free.  I.e., you're constantly flying right through stuff ranging from specks of interstellar dust all the way up to stars.

[Mariquis]

didymos1120 wrote...

Mariquis wrote...

ME1 For the first game I was pretty sure that the mass relays just ...affected the mass of the object propelling it through space at light speed.

No, the relays have always effectively "teleported" things (though it's not an actual "dissappear here, reappear there" situation. It just has practically the same result).  The trip is pretty much instantaneous between the two, though it takes a few moments for it to fling you, and a few more moments get added on for the "catching" done by the other relay. 

Also, think about if for a moment:  if they couldn't fling you through any intervening matter, they'd be useless.  There's just too much stuff in the galaxy and the relays transport you over too great of distances for the paths to always be obstruction free.  I.e., you're constantly flying right through stuff ranging from specks of interstellar dust all the way up to stars.

Fair enough, I can go with that :happy:.  But even with what is effectively teleportation, there's still the problem of how did Saren and the geth/Shepard and the squad not be destroyed upon 'landing' as it were.  When Joker comes out of drift at the beginning of the game he's drifting at like 10k.  Any being  would go splat. Just... splat. I mean clearly they didn't just roll out like a classic teleportation (as the Mako was on it's side and trashed) but travelling at those kinds of speeds would mean instant death.

[CroGamer002]

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Let's just hope the thermal clips have been kept out of this comic.

What's your problem with thermal clips?
Did you ever played Soldier class in ME1 and see was how BORING is it?

[didymos1120]

Mesina2 wrote...

Zulu_DFA wrote...

Let's just hope the thermal clips have been kept out of this comic.

What's your problem with thermal clips?
Did you ever played Soldier class in ME1 and see was how BORING is it?

Well, in this instance, he's right: thermal clips shouldn't have been invented yet in the new comic.

[CroGamer002]

^Shepard wakes up from 2 years coma and he already knows about thermal clips.
Like thermal clips were always in ME universe.
Codex thermal clip explanation shouldn't have never being written.
It's just changed gameplay.

Modifié par Mesina2, 14 janvier 2011 - 11:33 .

[didymos1120]

Mesina2 wrote...

^Shepard wakes up from 2 years coma and he already knows about thermal clips.
Like thermal clips were always in ME universe.
Codex thermal clip explanation shouldn't have never being written.
It's just changed gameplay.

Yeah, or that line was an uncaught error.  More likely than the multiple lines of Codex text being the mistake. 

[Dean_the_Young]

Or that in the monthes after ME1, Shepard was one of the first to know/test/receive thermal clips while they were still being designed.

[didymos1120]

Dean_the_Young wrote...

Or that in the monthes after ME1, Shepard was one of the first to know/test/receive thermal clips while they were still being designed.

True. For some reason though, despite its simplicity, I've always felt that was a little to fanwanky. 

Modifié par didymos1120, 14 janvier 2011 - 12:49 .

[Sandbox47]

ME1: Why did Shepard give up on trying to prove to the Council that Reapers are real so easily? Seeing as they could wipe out all humans in the galaxy I'd think that it was rather important.

ME2: Why not just destroy Omega 4 Relay instead of going through it to destroy the base?

[didymos1120]

Sandbox47 wrote...

ME1: Why did Shepard give up on trying to prove to the Council that Reapers are real so easily? Seeing as they could wipe out all humans in the galaxy I'd think that it was rather important.

I don't think Shep did give up. Not completely.    Rather, Shep set it aside in favor of stopping the abductions.  The datapad at the end with info on Harbinger suggests it's still on Shep's mine. 

ME2: Why not just destroy Omega 4 Relay instead of going through it to destroy the base?

And how do you propose that someone should destroy a relay?  These things have lasted over 50,000 years, and survived things like getting encased in a bunch of crap and being turned into Pluto's moon.  Also, assuming that that was feasible, by destroying it, you lose the opportunity to learn more about the Reapers, and you have no guarantee that the Collectors don't have another relay to use in the core, or that they couldn't just reconnect theirs to another.  They'd already demonstrated an ability to exert a level of control over relays that no one else has.

Modifié par didymos1120, 14 janvier 2011 - 01:19 .

[IrishGunman]

Why is there noise during the space battles? There is no air for the sound waves to travel trough!

[Praetor Knight]

IrishGunman wrote...

Why is there noise during the space battles? There is no air for the sound waves to travel trough!

sound could be simulated for space battles, similar to how every species with a translator can understand each other, IMHO.

this game has it, why not the ME universe?

[CroGamer002]

Praetor Shepard wrote...

IrishGunman wrote...

Why is there noise during the space battles? There is no air for the sound waves to travel trough!

sound could be simulated for space battles, similar to how every species with a translator can understand each other, IMHO.

this game has it, why not the ME universe?

Now I have to check this game out.