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[BlackyBlack]

ME1 plot holes:
- On Feros, Saren suddenly doesn't know where the Thorian is and the Krogan is searching for it even though Saren was able to offer Shiala to it in trade and then gain the Cipher.
- Saren's surfboard suddenly makes a appearance at the end despite several shots of him walking towards the Council Chambers beforehand.
(the others have already been said)

ME2 plot holes:
- Why did the Collectors want Shepard's body? (note: it's a plot hole for now, but it's explained in the cut Liara/Shadow Broker quest that is probably going to be a DLC)
- Why did the Collectors start the plague in Omega?
- What was the Collectors ultimate plan. They build a Reaper and then what?
- How did Mordin get his hands on a seeker?
- Liara states Thane arrived on Illium several days ago, but when you recruit him and bring him back to Illium he states he arrived on Illium two years ago.
- The Codex entry for Haestrom states that the colony was set up by the Quarians to study the instability affecting Dholen. When you speak with Tali, she informs you that Dholen was a normal star when the Quarians colonised the world
- Squad on the Migrant Fleet just show up in a breather mask, when the Ascension novel says all visitors were required to wear full enviro-suits

Modifié par BlackyBlack, 10 juin 2010 - 12:25 .

[CroGamer002]

BlackyBlack wrote...

- The Codex entry for Haestrom states that the colony was set up by the Quarians to study the instability affecting Dholen. When you speak with Tali, she informs you that Dholen was a normal star when the Quarians colonised the world
- Squad on the Migrant Fleet just show up in a breather mask, when the Ascension novel says all visitors were required to wear full enviro-suits

In my opinion we sholud dump Codex.
It gives more questions then answers.

[Jebel Krong]

[*]
[quote]ME1 | 1. Why weren't there geth ships to guard both ends of the Mu Relay (to counter the Normandy's stealth), and how did Joker fly out once they were alerted to their presence?[/quote]geth ships don't have windows, as soon as the normandy exited the relay's mass effect "field" it would have been invisible, plus they weren't expecting one ship to make any difference (and the alliance fleet not at all)
[quote]ME2 | 2. Why didn't the Collectors try to abduct the Normandy SR-1 crew instead of destroy them?[/quote]the arrogance of the reapers - one ship isn't going to make a difference, plus it's a few easy humans..
[quote]ME1 | 3. Couldn't the Turian Councilor accuse Shepard and Tali of pre-recording Saren's voiceprint during the "trial" and modifying it to say what they want (like in Kasumi's DLC)?[/quote]analysis could have been conducted later - digital encryption and markers are easy to spot (last night's me2 cerberus update: the duel of general partinax alluded to much the same with a video of the incident). i'd be gob-smacked if they just took the initial recording as proof, especially coming from a quarian. it is also possible that a recording of a geth's memories can't be falsified with any known technology in any event.
[quote]ME2 | 4. How DID Shepard's body remain intact during the descent into Alchera or his orbit around it?[/quote]didn't enter atmosphere - planetary distances are vast, and the video doesn't provide enough scale to judge.
[quote]ME1 | 5. If recording was that simple, why didn't they use it during their conversations with Saren, Sovereign and Vigil? After all, a soldier from Ashley's team was able to send helmet recordings of Sovereign in the middle of battle (why didn't they use that too?)[/quote]vigil was almost corrupt and stopped working after, sovereign or saren may have any kind of blocking technology installed there, although given reaper hubris, perhaps that is unlikely from there side, but saren was certainly a competent spectre.
[quote]ME2 | 6. Why are there dog tags in intact crates on Alchera? Did crew members think that hiding in crates would help them survive?[/quote]?
[quote]ME1 | 7. In Bring Down the Sky, why didn't Balak just set the bomb charges off while Shepard was disabling it to kill two birds with one stone?[/quote]and then what? wait for the normandy to simply destroy the station?
[quote]ME2 | 8. Why wasn't Shepard and Jacob more suspicious of the fact that Wilson was in a room by himself with human corpses and a wounded leg?[/quote]they were (and shepard cold be depending on your response to the "miranda" question), both were in a rush, that sequence is designed so that you're under the impression time is of the biggest consequence. surprised jacob didn't make more of him having access to things he shouldn't though.
[quote]ME1 | 9. Why wasn't Shepard suspicious enough to ask Ian Newstead how he managed to get past all the geth in the Feros tunnels? Is the Thorian allied with the geth or something?[/quote]could have been hiding down there since before the geth attack, depending on what he was doing?
[quote]ME2 | 10. If Garrus wasn't recruited in ME1, why does he still act like he's known Shepard personally through all the "old times"?[/quote]game-design flaw necessary to bring garrus into me2. or y'know it could be canon that you recruited him in-between end of me1 and your "death" at the beginning of me2.
[quote]ME1 | 11. If you let Fist live, why didn't the Shadow Broker hire anyone to go after Fist again, or to go after Wrex for betraying him like Fist did?[/quote]too small-time.
[quote]ME2 | 12. Why didn't Warden Kuril in Purgatory wait until Shepard and squad stepped INSIDE the cell before closing it on them?[/quote]er, because they saw it was a cell when the doors opened and stopped?
[quote]ME1 | 13. Why couldn't the geth or Saren just attach explosives to all the elevators in Feros, Noveria, Virmire, Ilos and the Citadel to get rid of Shepard?[/quote]or nuke them from orbit? it would be a real short game.
[quote]ME2 | 14. If Garrus knew how to take down a gunship in one shot, why didn't he do that the second time instead of shooting at all the offloaded mercs?[/quote]it's not stated it was once shot, it's stated that he knew exactly where to hit it, more than once to get through the armour to more vulnerable components.
[quote]ME1 | 15. If the Mako's jets only work for a few seconds, how does it get back to the Normandy without forcing the Normandy to land?[/quote]the sky is just another hill to THE MAKO!
[quote]ME2 | 16. If Haestrom's sun destroys all shields and Quarian technology - including Legion (but not Grunt's armor) - why are the other geth unaffected?[/quote]they moved from shade-shade, just like you most of the time.
[quote]ME1 | 17. If the Mako can't fire upwards and has limited mobility, why didn't combat drones just hover over the Mako and fire at it from above?[/quote]same applies to the hammerhead.
[quote]ME2 | 18. If Haestrom's radiation prevents all off-world communication, how does EDI immediately contact Shepard after?[/quote]direct light-beam transmission only possible with the accuracy of an ai?
[quote]ME1 | 19. Why didn't Saren destroy the second beacon on Virmire after using it to prevent Shepard from doing the same?[/quote]the beacons are useful research tools - it's possible the recording could allude to how they stopped the citadel last time, saren was most likely investigating it for just such a reason.
[quote]ME2 | 20. Why does Maelon mention "Reaper indoctrination" specifically when referring to Mordin's past research when no one knew about it before then?[/quote]i don't remember that at all.
[quote]ME1 | 21. If Shepard chose to go to the AA Tower, why didn't Saren and the geth just eliminate whoever stayed back at the bomb site and either disable or take the bomb out of the facility?[/quote]they didn't know whom was where?
[quote]ME2 | 22. If the Disabled Collector Vessel was a trap by the Collectors, why would they leave behind a large cache of upgraded weapons for Shepard to pick from?[/quote]why did they leave one of their own bodies behind? their own technology is supposed to be superior, what use would they have for ours?
[quote]ME1 | 23. Opold in Noveria asks you to smuggle weaponry because they check everyone's belongings and shipments for weapons - except Spectres. How was Matriarch Benezia able to carry all that cargo with her when the weapons can be detected (even though the inactive geth can't)?[/quote]question answered in itself.
[quote]ME2 | 24. How did they know the Derelict Reaper was 37 million years old, if the Council was incapable of testing any of Sovereign's parts?[/quote]they can test the age of the gun fired at it.
[quote]ME1 | 25. If you go to Virmire with Wrex but haven't recruited Garrus or Liara yet, Wrex will automatically agree with you to destroy the genophage regardless of what you say to him. Why?[/quote]never tried it.
[quote]ME2 | 26. Mordin told Shepard that they made covert drops of the modified genophage on Tuchanka's water supplies and hospitals. What about all the krogan in the rest of the galaxy?[/quote]assuming krogan females mainly concentrated on tuchunka = all males have to return to breed. virulence of genophage + he didn't mention not exposing genophage on places like omega, mean that it would spready to pretty much everyone quickly enough.
[quote]ME1 | 27. On Therum, if there were so many enemies (including underground), why didn't any of them use the mining laser first to get around the barrier?[/quote]sometimes you can't see the wood for the trees? besides it was encrypted! you need special 'RPG' skills to get round that!
[quote]ME2 | 28. Why are there mechs and heat sinks in Aeia when Ronald Taylor and crew were stranded there 10 years ago? (commonly asked question)[/quote]because it's necessary for the stupid ammo system to work. it's like why are there refuelling tankers in unknown star systems.
[quote]ME1 | 29. Why did the Thorian attach itself above a seemingly bottomless pit to fall down in?[/quote]how many bottomless pits do you actually know of? the thorian was supported throughout the superstructure, and that is the biggest place in the bulding to grow into.
[quote]ME2 | 30. The Illusive Man said that an Alliance science team discovered the great rift on Klendagon, but it was a Cerberus team that traced the location of the Derelict Reaper. What happened to the Alliance science team?[/quote]they weren't assigned to look specifically for the rift? humanity is only just starting it's spread through the galaxy, they were probably on a survey mission only.
[quote]ME1 | 31. If either Ashley or Kaidan are left behind by themselves in the Virmire multi-squad mission and two other squadmates are with Shepard, what are the other two doing?[/quote]?
[quote]ME2 | 32. Was Legion saying that Shepard talked to Sovereign on Ilos writer oversight or did the geth really make a mistake?[/quote]writer oversight - they probably meant virmire.
[quote]ME1 | 33. If hanar are allowed to roam on the Presidium, where is their Embassy and where is the Hanar Ambassador?[/quote]not all species have an embassy =/= not all species are not allowed on the presidium.
[quote]ME2 | 34. Why didn't the crew test the Reaper IFF near the Citadel fleet? Was there supposed to be some kind of actual multi-squad mission they needed to do?[/quote]why didn't they scrub it first? even if you assume that would have wiped the identifier, as soon as there were anomalies an AI like EDI should at least have thought somethign was up.
[quote]ME1 | 35. Why didn't the Normandy SR-1 just use its Reaper-slaying cannons instead of the Mako in the Ilos ruins the moment they saw Saren walk in?[/quote]because the protheans make really hard doors.
[quote]ME2 | 36. After the Mass Effect core was destroyed in the Derelict Reaper and they floated over to the Normandy (suggesting the Reaper no longer has its own gravity), why didn't they immediately start falling into Mnemosyne instead?[/quote]the mass effect fields didn't fail all at once, otherwise it wouldn't matter - the colossal winds of mnemosyne would have engulfed the normandy and the reaper.
[quote]ME1 | 37. Why did the Protheans disable the Keepers' reaction to open the Citadel relay instead of disabling the relay portion of the Citadel itself (both the Keepers and the Citadel are advanced technology, after all)?[/quote]knowledge of one technology doesn't follow the other - they barely had a one-way working relay, the keepers are a comparitively weak-link.
[quote]ME2 | 38. Why did the Collector Base only have one ship to defend itself when the Base itself is the size of a planet?[/quote]it's not that big. they had been safe in the centre of the galaxy, surrounded by the debris field and a supermassive balck hole for how long? plus reaper hubris as i've mentioned before. one ship and automated drone defences are a lot easier to maintain by remote, especially with the de-evolution of the protheans/collectors to almost mindless slaves.
[quote]ME1 | 39. If Turian husks (Saren) have more reach and flexibility than human husks, why didn't Sovereign just convert all the Turians he found?[/quote]saren wasn't a turian husk - he was different reaper tech.
[quote]ME2 | 40. Why does Grunt die as Second Fire Team Leader because his shields went down (he has armor, not shields)?[/quote]he has both, but i have no answer anyway.
[quote]ME1 | 41. How does the Citadel Rapid Transit shuttle manage to get into enclosed spaces like the hallway in Chora's Den?[/quote]that's more of a tech engine limitation than a universe-flaw.
[quote]ME2 | 42. Why didn't the diversion team (the one without the biotic barrier) get attacked by massive amounts of seeker swarms?[/quote]they went a different way, the idea was to split up to maximise your chances.
[quote]ME1 | 43. If Shepard eliminates the Council and replaces it with a new, all-human Council, why can't Udina and Anderson both be on it?[/quote]'cause they really don't get along.
[quote]ME2 | 44. Why were we forced into joining Cerberus? I wanted to side with the Shadow Broker.[/quote]cerberus got you first. doesn't exlpain why you can't give the station to the council at the end, though.
[quote]ME1 | 45. Why were we forced into joining the Council Spectres? I wanted to side with Saren.[/quote]because spectres are cool and you get to be the top one by the end.
[quote]ME2 | 46. Why are Tali and Garrus (and all the aliens on the ship) more trusting of Shepard working with Cerberus than Ashley and Kaidan?[/quote]because ashley/kaiden have a massive bias.
(End of list)

[RyuGuitarFreak]

There are some real good answers to some real and not real "plotholes" as _pirico said "People should try using common sence before starting whining about plotholes". Though I would say "good sense" and if some people here made good use of it I believe 90% of the whining in the thread Disappointment With Mass Effect 2? An Open Discussion about "teh plaht" wouldn't even exist. But there are some "plotholes" which I question the veracity if it's a plothole or not and some of them are really silly:

ME1: Why was it a choice between Kaiden or Ash on Virmire? Why not any of the random 'red-shirts' on the Normandy? Or one of the aliens?

WTH? This is not a plothole. That's just how things happened, would it make a difference in the plot if it was another person or one of the aliens?

ME2: What was the collector's gameplan? If they needed to attack Earth to finish the Human Reaper, how were they going to do that? They would have been completely obliterated by the Arcturus Fleet. Even if they got to Earth, other ships would still wipe them out once they're there. Even if they DID finish the Human Reaper, how were they going to bring back the Reapers? Were they going to attack the Citadel AGAIN, but this time without a Geth Armada and only a single Collector ship? Even with now tighter security?

For the Collectors's plan, I guess we'll see it in ME3 somehow. The rest, well, we stopped them before all of it could happen didn't we? The the attack on Earth was more of a thought they had, not a fact shown by the Collectors and since they didn't have any chance of trying, questioning it makes no real sense and it's questioning for the sake of questioning.

ME1 | 13. Why couldn't the geth or Saren just attach explosives to all the elevators in Feros, Noveria,
Virmire, Ilos and the Citadel to get rid of Shepard?
philiposophy haved already answered this, but OMG it's so silly to question it in first place, it's like "why didn't Saren hire Thane or a drell assassin to get rid of Shepard? He wouldn't see his death coming".

ME2 | 44. Why were we forced into joining
Cerberus? I wanted to side with the Shadow Broker.
Because it would make no sense. Shadow Broker helped the Collectors to get Shepard's body, Shadow Broker didn't resurrected Shepard, Shadow Broker didn't give a damn about the abductions, Shadow Broker probably doesn't even give a damn about the reapers. Also, Liara gives us good reasons not to trust him.

Although, I think Ecael made these two and other silly questions only for the nitpickingness I'll continue my read on the thread...

[adam_grif]

questioning it makes no real sense and it's questioning for the sake of questioning.

Actually it's kind of critically important, because the collectors actions were the driving force of the plot in ME2 at every turn. It seems that their actions were highly irrational and stupid since they never had a chance of succeeding with their plot. This would thus invalidate the urgency of ME2, rendering it an irrelevant part of ME lore because all you did was save some colonist lives, as opposed to actually thwarting a Reaper plot.

[Ecael]

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Although, I think Ecael made these two and other silly questions only for the nitpickingness

Of course.



I still want to know how the Mako gets back to the Normandy, however! This is serious business.

[Fiery Phoenix]

Ecael wrote...

RyuGuitarFreak wrote...

Although, I think Ecael made these two and other silly questions only for the nitpickingness

Of course.



I still want to know how the Mako gets back to the Normandy, however! This is serious business.

That got me wondering as well. However, you can safely assume the Alliance handed a replica Mako to Shepard after he was done with Saren (i.e. inbetween ME1 and ME2).

There is a more serious plothole regarding the original Normandy, though. Although the word "Normandy" along the side of the ship is clearly destroyed in the introduction of ME2, it is visible as a complete word at the crash site. I don't have a picture to demonstrate this unfortunately, but I'm sure you guys know what I'm talking about.  

Modifié par FieryPhoenix7, 10 juin 2010 - 02:50 .

[CroGamer002]

ME2 plothole
With that speed won't Reapers need few thousands years to get to galaxy?

ME1 plothole
Why Geth navy were attacking Destiny Ascension instead of protecting Sovereing? Or at least some ships because I only saw one Geth ship around Sovereing.

ME1 plothole
Ashley's grandfather demoted for surrendering Shanxi after long time of guerrilla attacks on Turians.
And many say he got of easy.

That doesn't make any sense.
He should be called goddamn hero for heroism on Shanxi.

Did Alliance get back to being in 18th century?

Don't ignore me.:devil::devil:

Modifié par Mesina2, 10 juin 2010 - 03:01 .

[RyuGuitarFreak]

adam_grif wrote...

questioning it makes no real sense and it's questioning for the sake of questioning.

Actually it's kind of critically important, because the collectors actions were the driving force of the plot in ME2 at every turn. It seems that their actions were highly irrational and stupid since they never had a chance of succeeding with their plot. This would thus invalidate the urgency of ME2, rendering it an irrelevant part of ME lore because all you did was save some colonist lives, as opposed to actually thwarting a Reaper plot.

I know, you have no real clue about how were they going to attack Earth, but who said they didn't know a way to do it or, were they really going to do it? It's not critically important."The reapers are still out there. And it's up to us to stop them. We're at war, no one wants to admit it but humanity is under attack". Humanity was under attack and the reapers were involved, Shepard was going to stop them reaper-baby, clear motivations or not. They never had a chance of succeeding in their plot because Cerberus decided to take the fight to the reapers and the Collectors.

[adam_grif]

I know, you have no real clue about how were they going to attack Earth, but who said they didn't know a way to do it or, were they really going to do it? It's not critically important."The reapers are still out there. And it's up to us to stop them. We're at war, no one wants to admit it but humanity is under attack". Humanity was under attack and the reapers were involved, Shepard was going to stop them reaper-baby, clear motivations or not. They never had a chance of succeeding in their plot because Cerberus decided to take the fight to the reapers and the Collectors.

Please try to pay attention. I never questioned Shepard's motives for why he wanted to stop them, I'm saying that his success or failure in this mission had a very minimal impact on the overarching plot.



What is the collector plan? To create a human-reaper. How are they doing this? By turning humans into goo. How are they getting humans? By abducting colonies and boarding ships.



The sum total of a half dozen+ colonies and numerous ships is a very small interior compared to the massive size of a completed Reaper. The population of Earth represents the super-majority of all humans (all colonies combined + all orbitals + all ship crews is still way, way ,smaller than Earth's total population). That they would need to attack Earth to get enough humans is practically a certainty. At the very least, they would be forced to push out of the largely unprotected terminus colonies, and into human controlled territory, along with the human fleets that go along with this. This means that they would get obliterated, since they have ONE ship, that would get totally trashed by any kind of organized resistance. The ONLY reason they were even able to abduct colonies is because they had no defenses!



Then, hypothetically speaking, if they did manage to get their Reaper built, how would this have assisted the Reapers ultimate goal of returning to the Galaxy? Clearly they were betting on the Collectors being able to bring them back, since they didn't bother waking up and moving towards the milky way until after you shut them down for good. A single Reaper is not capable of destroying the Citadel defense fleets, especially not with the tighter security, more-powerful ships, and in the absense of any kind of fleet to help them (since the Heretics are no more).



So the stakes of ME2 are pathetically low. We dropped from Fate of the Galaxy in ME1 to "oh no some fringe colonies will get attacked!" More people died in the opening minutes of ME1 on the major colony world of Eden Prime than ever got abducted in ME2. And unlike ME1, Shepard's participation was of no real consequence in the long term.



So do you see why this is a problem for the story?

[InvaderErl]

adam_grif wrote...

So the stakes of ME2 are pathetically low. We dropped from Fate of the Galaxy in ME1 to "oh no some fringe colonies will get attacked!" More people died in the opening minutes of ME1 on the major colony world of Eden Prime than ever got abducted in ME2.

HUNDREDS of thousands of people were abducted.

We're not talking about a couple of dudes here.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 10 juin 2010 - 04:03 .

[Sirsmirkalot]

InvaderErl wrote...
HUNDREDS of thousands of people were abducted.

We're not talking about a couple of dudes here.

Yet in the way it was narrated, that was too heavly sidelined. "You need to get to the collector base" was alot more put in focus than "Why". But being sidelined can be said about the entire main storyline.

[RyuGuitarFreak]

adam_grif wrote...

I know, you have no real clue about how were they going to attack Earth, but who said they didn't know a way to do it or, were they really going to do it? It's not critically important."The reapers are still out there. And it's up to us to stop them. We're at war, no one wants to admit it but humanity is under attack". Humanity was under attack and the reapers were involved, Shepard was going to stop them reaper-baby, clear motivations or not. They never had a chance of succeeding in their plot because Cerberus decided to take the fight to the reapers and the Collectors.

Please try to pay attention. I never questioned Shepard's motives for why he wanted to stop them, I'm saying that his success or failure in this mission had a very minimal impact on the overarching plot.

What is the collector plan? To create a human-reaper. How are they doing this? By turning humans into goo. How are they getting humans? By abducting colonies and boarding ships.

The sum total of a half dozen+ colonies and numerous ships is a very small interior compared to the massive size of a completed Reaper. The population of Earth represents the super-majority of all humans (all colonies combined + all orbitals + all ship crews is still way, way ,smaller than Earth's total population). That they would need to attack Earth to get enough humans is practically a certainty. At the very least, they would be forced to push out of the largely unprotected terminus colonies, and into human controlled territory, along with the human fleets that go along with this. This means that they would get obliterated, since they have ONE ship, that would get totally trashed by any kind of organized resistance. The ONLY reason they were even able to abduct colonies is because they had no defenses!

Then, hypothetically speaking, if they did manage to get their Reaper built, how would this have assisted the Reapers ultimate goal of returning to the Galaxy? Clearly they were betting on the Collectors being able to bring them back, since they didn't bother waking up and moving towards the milky way until after you shut them down for good. A single Reaper is not capable of destroying the Citadel defense fleets, especially not with the tighter security, more-powerful ships, and in the absense of any kind of fleet to help them (since the Heretics are no more).

So the stakes of ME2 are pathetically low. We dropped from Fate of the Galaxy in ME1 to "oh no some fringe colonies will get attacked!" More people died in the opening minutes of ME1 on the major colony world of Eden Prime than ever got abducted in ME2. And unlike ME1, Shepard's participation was of no real consequence in the long term.

So do you see why this is a problem for the story?

Yes I do agree, and you have some real good points. I think major weight the suicide mission had in the end was the info on the Collector base that may have a lot of consequences for the beginning of ME3.

Stopping them must not seem BIG stuff compared to ME1, but none of these are really plotholes, you can only assume they were hitting Earth somehow, that was never really stated for them in the game and most importantly, we never saw them trying to do it, they were abducting colonies and that's it. We never had the chance to see them trying to take a huge populated planet and for that reason we can only assume they were gonna be obliterated. And comparing the numbers of abucted humans with Eden Prime seems to me like a big hit in the dark. Were there numbers or something that states it? I don't remember.

Maybe they had something hidden we didn't really see or they could have been able to finish the reaper with the colonies, as it was able to activate itself somehow. Who knows. We don't have a lot of information really on how or if they were gonna do it. Saying this is a plothole is nitpicking.

Modifié par RyuGuitarFreak, 10 juin 2010 - 04:42 .

[InvaderErl]

There is no reason to assume that the Collectors were going to target Earth at any point in the near future. Moreso that when it came time to harvest (likely after their Human Reaper had facilitated the invasion) they were going to harvest all the humans.

Sirsmirkalot wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...
HUNDREDS of thousands of people were abducted.

We're not talking about a couple of dudes here.

Yet in the way it was narrated, that was too heavly sidelined. "You need to get to the collector base" was alot more put in focus than "Why".

Eh, going to have to disagree.

They spent about as much time giving you motivation on a professional level to stop them as Saren and the Reapers. I certainly felt Shep had more personal reasons to hate  Harbinger/The Collectors than with Saren which seemed forced to be honest.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 10 juin 2010 - 04:52 .

[CroGamer002]

Sirsmirkalot wrote...

InvaderErl wrote...
HUNDREDS of thousands of people were abducted.

We're not talking about a couple of dudes here.

Yet in the way it was narrated, that was too heavly sidelined. "You need to get to the collector base" was alot more put in focus than "Why". But being sidelined can be said about the entire main storyline.

Like we know much about why Reapers wants every organic dead insted of you enslaved them for good.

[Sereaph502]

A plot hole, or plothole, is a gap or inconsistency in a storyline that goes against the flow of logic established by the story's plot, or constitutes a blatant omission of relevant information regarding the plot. These include such things as unlikely behaviour or actions of characters, illogical or impossible events, events happening for no apparent reason, or statements/events that contradict earlier events in the storyline.



While many stories have unanswered questions, unlikely events or chance occurrences, a plot hole is one that is essential to the story's outcome. Plot holes are usually seen as weaknesses or flaws in a story, and writers usually try to avoid them to make their stories seem as realistic as possible. However, certain genre (and some media) which require or allow suspension of disbelief are more tolerant of plot holes.



Plot Holes =/= nitpickings with the games story because they happen to let you continue with the plot/because people didn't pay attention.





If in ME1 the whole game is centered around Saren being the villain and then all of a sudden in the middle of the game you fight along side him as an ally for no reason whatsoever, that is a plot hole. "Why weren't there two geth ships guarding this thing" is not a plot hole.

[wizardryforever]

How about plot inconsistency instead then?  Or setting hole?  Most of these have to do with the mechanics of the setting or the story, not with the actual events ie how did this happen? vs this makes no sense.  I don't know.

I see no one has responded to my plot holes inconsistencies.  Does no one like me or something?   Or do you just have no answer?

[Fiery Phoenix]

^ Believe it or not, every single word you write down on the forum is read by more people than you can imagine. It's just that replying to what you say is not always guaranteed.

[Eunjuay]

"ME1 | 29. Why did the Thorian attach itself above a seemingly bottomless pit to fall down in?"



Because a 50,000 yr old being needs a place to potty just like everyone else.

[Jade Elf]

Ecael wrote...

ME2 | 8. Why wasn't Shepard and Jacob more suspicious of the fact that Wilson was in a room by himself with human corpses and a wounded leg?Probably thought Mechs did it. Also Jacob knows he worked on Shepard so it wouldn't make sense as to why one of the cheif scientists who brought him back to life would try and kill him. As for Shepard one of the convo options is to say you don't trust either of them so Shepard only trusts him if you want.

True. I wish they'd have explained why Wilson would betray Cerberus and Shepard so quickly after working on bringing him back to life for two years.

There is a hint to Wilson's motives in the game, at least in my opinion. I think it's just a case of greed (maybe the Shadow Broker paid him off?). In the small room with the two legless mechs, there's a wall safe and two logs to listen to. One is by Miranda, the other is Wilson talking about the insane amounts of money the Lazarus Project was costing. There he says he wishes TIM would send some of that money his way...

Awesome thread, by the way.

Also Ecael, can I borrow you "Fight for the plot" sig image? Just the image, since it's about time I renewed mine.

[jackkel dragon]

Now that I think about it, I wonder how the feral hunters on Jacob's loyalty mission managed to get their hands on so many weapons...

That's ridiculously easy. Some of the weapons may have survived the crash, and they took them with when they were exiled. I mean, they had working VI and computers after 10 years. The real question is why they were able to use the thermal clips that magically fell from the sky two years ago.

I'm still waiting for my raise. And the thermal clip "meteor" shower drawing. Maybe with the hunters worshipping the "gifts from heaven."

[LorDC]

On topic of Collector's(Reaper's actually, since it is under direct control of Harbinger) plan. I think they just didn't have any plan at all. They were just building Human Reaper. They didn't even plan to finish it until Reapers' arrival. There is no need for some secret plans because Reapers already lost their first strike advantage. So in ME2 we are protecting human colonies. Nothing more. There is no immediate threat to galactic existence. Actually nothing in game directly points that abducting is something more than abducting.

[InvaderErl]

Actually I suspect that they intended to use the Human Reaper to indoctrinate followers since they had effectively been cut off from allies.



This is something that we will be able to comment more definitively on in 3 when we see what the Reapers actually plan to do in order to get back into the Milky Way.

[LorDC]

adam_grif wrote...
ME2: What was Cerberus / Shepard's plan from the start? All you ever see is vague utterances of stopping the Collectors, but how were they going to do that? Until near the end of the game, we're under the impressino that The Collectors are an entire civilization of people, with what we can only assume is an entire Armada of ships. Even when we find out they're in the Galactic core, we still have reason to believe that they have a large number of ships and a huge population. So why was TIM confident, and why didn't anybody bother to talk to Shepard about how they had absolutely no plan and no chance of succeeding given what they knew? It's one thing for this ti be a Suicide Mission, but they had NO CHANCE OF SUCCEEDING IN THEIR MISSION except that everyting went completely perfectly for them!

ME2: Why didn't Shepard and Co bring a buncch of nukes (i.e. the ones we used on Jack's loyalty mission) to blow up the collectors? Were they planning on fighting their way to a convenient-to-overload reactor that would destroy the station?

ME2: Why did TIM send you around from the start to recruit a team of the best? Did he somehow know that their mission would be decided by small-scale infantry battles? Why didn't Shepard confront him about these gaping holes in their plan?

It is pretty much obvious that Collectors don't posses any serious military might. If they did why Saren relied on the Geth instead of Collectors? TIM could also make some research on known Collector data and learn that they were using only one ship every time which points towards small size of their fleet.
Also I don't think that TIM planned to use(and he didn't actually use) any kind of brute force against Collectors. He needed a diversion. And small group of commandos on stealth ship is best for this. Not the best example but look at 9/11 events. There were something like dozen of terrorists aboard the planes but they managed to start Afghan war.

Modifié par LorDC, 10 juin 2010 - 06:02 .

[InvaderErl]

Cerberus doesn't seem like it has wide-scale warring capabilities anyway. Building the Normandy was apparently a feat for for it and that's just a frigate (if an advanced one) and they have less than 200 members iirc.

Modifié par InvaderErl, 10 juin 2010 - 06:08 .