31 réponses à ce sujet

[SuperMedbh]

I've started a Soldier run, and was wondering what is better versus mercenaries with shields.  Obviously Disruptor is best against mechs/geth, and inferno against armoured opponents, but against humans with shields I'm not sure.  On one hand, the disruptor takes down the shields, but inferno does more damage once they're down.

Thoughts?

[SuperMedbh]

My play style is largely sniping/long range (Mantis and Vin) right now. Haven't gotten to the Collector vessel yet.

[Pacifien]

I would think the ammo you choose would depend somewhat on your squadmates. If you have squadmates with overload, then inferno might be the way to go. Overload the shields to get them mostly out of the way, use inferno to finish it off. But if your squadmates have more armor-penetrating abilities, you might go for disruptor. Then you're the one stripping the shields for your squadmates to then finish off.

[Forst1999]

In my experience it doesn't make a big difference. If the mercs make heavy use of mechs, disruptor may become better, if they have some higher ranking ones among them, Inferno becomes better, because this guys are also armored. So, like Pacifien said, the abilities of your squadmates to remove protections should decide which ammo you use.

[SuperMedbh]

Thanks all for the input!

[mcsupersport]

Just remember it only takes 1.5 seconds to shift, so try and see. Generally I use inferno, but with large shielded opponents I switch to disruptor.

[jwalker]

I couple of weeks ago, I would have said "inferno". Now, I'm not so sure.

I've just replayed Jack's recruitment with my NG+ assault sentinel. I took Zaeed (squad disruptor) and Miranda instead of Jacob (squad incendiary) and Miranda.

With incendiary ammo, when you hit your foes' health, you get to see them dance, which is not only cool but also makes them easier to kill. But it doesn't help you at all with shields.

With disruptor, shields go down fast. And when health is hit, there's a really good chance of weapon overheat. Your targets can still move, but they don't shoot. The weapon overheat lasts about 6 seconds, at least on regular mercs. I got the impression it lasted less on bosses.

Bottom line, incendiary is awesome once shields are down. Disruptor is great against shields and still helps beyond that, because of the weapon overheat.

[Lemonwizard]

While it doesn't address your question directly, if you are playing a soldier with an emphasis on snipers and plan to pick the widow....Armor piercing ammo upgraded to tungsten is probably the best bonus power you could have.

[SuperMedbh]

Heh. LemonWiz, that opens the whole "Warp vs. AP" debate



@ Jwalker, good point! I know, the weapon overheat isn't as dramatic as the fire dance, but it still helps a lot. I just did the Jack recruitment myself, and the disruptor really seemed to help. Besides which, the faster you get their shields down, the faster your squaddies can use powers like concussive shot.



But inferno blast with the Geth Pulse or Revenant still looks soooooo scary

[Bozorgmehr]

If you use the Widow it's pretty much pointless to use Incendiary or AP ammo. The Widow already has a 50 % dmg bonus against armor. Only when you have to deal with heavily armored enemies like Scions, Harby and the Preatorians it makes sense (though I would recommens the Viper against those foes). After the research of the AP Sniper Upgrade you'll get an additional 50% dmg bonus against armor.
The CC effect is comparable. Incendiary Ammo will set enemies on fire (when defenses are down) - Disrupter Ammo (lvl3 & 4) will overload enemy weaponry for a few seconds. Both effects will stop enemies firing at you.

[SmokeyNinjas]

I use Heavy Inferno over Disruptor on mercs as the 3 meter splash effect can not only spread the damage but also has a chance to CC shielded enemies so their shooting less which means i waste less time in cover. Result;)

[Lemonwizard]

SuperMedbh wrote...

Heh. LemonWiz, that opens the whole "Warp vs. AP" debate

@ Jwalker, good point! I know, the weapon overheat isn't as dramatic as the fire dance, but it still helps a lot. I just did the Jack recruitment myself, and the disruptor really seemed to help. Besides which, the faster you get their shields down, the faster your squaddies can use powers like concussive shot.

But inferno blast with the Geth Pulse or Revenant still looks soooooo scary

The Warp vs. AP debate is simple. Warp is better against stuff with barriers, AP is better against everything else. To me it's a simple enough decision, given that there's more enemies without barriers than there are with barriers (by a great deal), and 70% is better than 50%. I'd still rather have AP against praetorians since damaging their armor is the part where it counts, and window+tungsten with full upgrades and adrenaline rush two shots harbinger if you headshot him. Warp ammo actually takes the same number of shots, it's just 20%-dead instead of 55%-dead. That said, unless you're worried you'll be missing and hitting the body instead, it's still the same amount of firepower one way or another.

[mosor]

I like inferno on rapid fire weapons. On most human mercs enemies shields go down really quickly anyway because rapid fire weapons do more damage to shields. The weapon overload with disruptor is ok, but for me they seem to reload quickly and just shoot again. I prefer the extra health damage from inferno, the area effect panic.

Modifié par mosor, 12 juin 2010 - 12:59 .

[mosor]

Lemonwizard wrote...

SuperMedbh wrote...

Heh. LemonWiz, that opens the whole "Warp vs. AP" debate

@ Jwalker, good point! I know, the weapon overheat isn't as dramatic as the fire dance, but it still helps a lot. I just did the Jack recruitment myself, and the disruptor really seemed to help. Besides which, the faster you get their shields down, the faster your squaddies can use powers like concussive shot.

But inferno blast with the Geth Pulse or Revenant still looks soooooo scary

The Warp vs. AP debate is simple. Warp is better against stuff with barriers, AP is better against everything else. To me it's a simple enough decision, given that there's more enemies without barriers than there are with barriers (by a great deal), and 70% is better than 50%. I'd still rather have AP against praetorians since damaging their armor is the part where it counts, and window+tungsten with full upgrades and adrenaline rush two shots harbinger if you headshot him. Warp ammo actually takes the same number of shots, it's just 20%-dead instead of 55%-dead. That said, unless you're worried you'll be missing and hitting the body instead, it's still the same amount of firepower one way or another.

By the time you hit horizon, the last thing a soldier needs is another ammo power. Inferno is almost as good as tungsten for pure damage, and has fringe benefits with the panic.

[Pacifien]

I've seen videos of Inferno vs. Tungsten, and the result showed they were near enough to not really make much difference. So if you have access to Inferno, it does make Tungsten redundant.

However, the scenario Lemonwizard was giving used the ammo in relation to a sniper rifle. If headshots are your game, then Tungsten does have that little bit of an edge that beats Inferno. But only in regards to enemies where armor is their main defense.

For headshots only, if the enemy has shields up, Disruptor ammo is going to get you farther than Inferno or Tungsten. If the enemy has barriers, then Warp Ammo will get your farther than Inferno or Tungsten. In fact, Warp Ammo is necessary to accomplish a one-kill headshot against Collectors on Insanity difficulty.

Anyway, getting away from the headshot scenarios, I prefer Inferno not just for its panic effect but it also stops a krogan or vorcha from regenerating health.

[Lemonwizard]

mosor wrote...

By the time you hit horizon, the last thing a soldier needs is another ammo power. Inferno is almost as good as tungsten for pure damage, and has fringe benefits with the panic.

I'll take this opportunity to point out that "almost as good" is a huge difference when it means "Widow headshot is a 1 shot kill" vs. "Widow headshot leaves them with 10%".


I don't think Tungsten ammo is a good choice for a soldier who focuses more on assault rifles or uses all weapons equally, but if you're focusing on snipers, you want every shot to do as much damage as it possibly can. Tungsten ammo is the way to do that.

[implodinggoat]

Disruptor is the best against Mercs with shields. Their shields absorb more damage than their health does and on top of that once their shields are down your disruptor ammo will overheat their weapons briefly.

Other points raised:

Forget Tungsten.   Inferno does almost as much damage to armor and it panics organic enemies and stops health regeneration.   Warp Ammo is also a far superior option since it gives you an ammo that works against barriers as well as armor and health.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 12 juin 2010 - 07:03 .

[implodinggoat]

Sorry for double post.

Modifié par implodinggoat, 12 juin 2010 - 06:57 .

[RGFrog]

Disruptor for the overheat effect. Warp over AP if you're a sniper because it works just as well against shields as it does barriers. And while not as good against armor as AP, it's pretty good against armor itself. Warp is a good all around ammo type to have maxed out and is something you should never leave home without on insanity.

For less than hardcore modes, though, AP is better as you have fewer targets with armor and even fewer with shields/barriers.

However, you can go the whole game with Disruptor or Incendiary ammo and be just fine no matter the game mode. In which case, I'd still pick diruptor. I like damage affects that are immediate. Not over time.

Best thing would be, though, to have your squad use one form and you use the other.

[jwalker]

RGFrog wrote...

Disruptor for the overheat effect. Warp over AP if you're a sniper because it works just as well against shields as it does barriers.

Warp ammo is good against shields too ?
The description says "increases damage against health, armor and barriers" . It says nothing about shields.

[mosor]

Lemonwizard wrote...

mosor wrote...

By the time you hit horizon, the last thing a soldier needs is another ammo power. Inferno is almost as good as tungsten for pure damage, and has fringe benefits with the panic.

I'll take this opportunity to point out that "almost as good" is a huge difference when it means "Widow headshot is a 1 shot kill" vs. "Widow headshot leaves them with 10%".


I don't think Tungsten ammo is a good choice for a soldier who focuses more on assault rifles or uses all weapons equally, but if you're focusing on snipers, you want every shot to do as much damage as it possibly can. Tungsten ammo is the way to do that.

I seriously don't know a single enemy that tugsten can one shot with a widow that inferno cannot. The armored enemies that are one shot  kills with a window are vorcha, varren and the light mechs. Inferno kills them in one shot too. Any other armored enemy is going to take more than one shot anyway. I'd rather have a more useful power on a soldier like reave, energy drain,  or slam than an almost redundant ammo power.

Modifié par mosor, 12 juin 2010 - 09:41 .

[Bozorgmehr]

Lemonwizard wrote...

I'll take this opportunity to point out that "almost as good" is a huge difference when it means "Widow headshot is a 1 shot kill" vs. "Widow headshot leaves them with 10%".

It isn't 10%. This is how the damage system in ME2 works: Lets say your gun does 100 points dmg. Inferno Ammo gives a 60 % bonus, Tungsten Ammo a 70 % bonus. That means that Inferno Ammo does 100 * 1.6 = 160 dmg and Tungsten Ammo does 100 * 1.7 = 170 dmg - difference is (10/160*100) 6.25 % - things are getting even worse after you've upgraded your weapons and/or use headshots (down to about 2 %).
If you've already got Incediary Ammo you don't need AP Ammo, its a waste.

[SuperMedbh]

I usually play insanity, but right now I'm trying a Hardcore no deaths (hee...third attempt. Stupid black ball of death). So, as much as I like charging around with the Rev, hanging back with the Widow/Vin combination seems like the best plan for now.



Looks as the basic rule of thumb is that using the ammo for whatever the top protection is will do the most damage. So shields=disruptor, armour=AP/inferno/warp, barriers=warp. Of course, three ammo powers is a bit silly, so I think I'll stick with the stock inferno and disruptor, switching as needed. And that lets me get another bonus power (I am absurdly fond of Dominate for some reason).