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[MelRedux]

I agree....it could be plausible, but, meh.



And, we keep thinking about how F!Cousland and the other Couslands would react. Are we forgetting about Nate? F!Cousland killed his father! Yes his father was a bad man, and he realizes this, but she did it with her hands. I think that may be a little harder to get over.



Although, Nate didn't love his father the way Cousland loved hers, so maybe it is more balanced.



Do you like how I had a whole conversation (complete with point and counterpoint) with myself in that post? This is why I'm not a writer.

[Sarah1281]

Mel_Redux wrote...

Or they were about how they loved each other when they were kids, so they immediately fall in love again.  Um, did you remember what happened between their families?  No?  Well, I guess that hwole massacre is kind of easy to forget....

Yeah. Besides, if that was the case wouldn't Howe pretend to be interested in setting the HNF up with Nate when he got back instead of Thomas? 

Although, Nate didn't love his father the way Cousland loved hers, so maybe it is more balanced.

I got the feeling that he did. It's why he needed Delilah to open his eyes about Rendon and even then fondly reminisced about him with the Black Marshes.

[Lady Catastrophe]

Mel_Redux wrote...

I agree....it could be plausible, but, meh.

And, we keep thinking about how F!Cousland and the other Couslands would react. Are we forgetting about Nate? F!Cousland killed his father! Yes his father was a bad man, and he realizes this, but she did it with her hands. I think that may be a little harder to get over.

Although, Nate didn't love his father the way Cousland loved hers, so maybe it is more balanced.

Do you like how I had a whole conversation (complete with point and counterpoint) with myself in that post? This is why I'm not a writer.

I imagine if Nate started developing feelings for F!Cousland he would obviously feel very conflicted.I can picture him being a little pissy about it,actually.
But like you said,in the long run,Rendon was Nathaniel's father,but Bryce was Fergus and F!Cousland's Dad.That's exactly why I love this pairing.Nate & Cousland are very similar yet at the same time,they're both incredibly different.

And conversing with yourself isn't so bad.I do that in my sleep,apparently..

[MelRedux]

Sarah1281 wrote...
I got the feeling that he did. It's why he needed Delilah to open his eyes about Rendon and even then fondly reminisced about him with the Black Marshes.

I'm not so sure.  I think he lived with the illusion that he loved his father, but in reality it was more he looked up to his father, becuase as a noble that's what you do.  That all starts to crumble in Awakening when he talks about how Rendon hated his mother, when Delilah tells him the truth...etc.  It was very easy for him to do the 180 and say "Hey, my father really was a bastard!"

[Lady Catastrophe]

Mel_Redux wrote...
I'm not so sure.  I think he lived with the illusion that he loved his father, but in reality it was more he looked up to his father, becuase as a noble that's what you do.  That all starts to crumble in Awakening when he talks about how Rendon hated his mother, when Delilah tells him the truth...etc.  It was very easy for him to do the 180 and say "Hey, my father really was a bastard!"

You know,I actually got that impression,too.I can't picture Nate having a good relationship with either of his parents (certainly not enough to say that he loved them) since Adria looked after him more than his mother did and his father...well,he was a nasty piece of work to say the least.

[MelRedux]

Yeah! I forgot about Adria. He says she was like a mother to him, I got the feeling she practically WAS his mother.



I need to hurry up and finish my PC verison of my Cousland so I can go play Awakening again and catch more details!

[Lady Catastrophe]

Poor Nate.His childhood must have sucked.

[Addai]

Mel_Redux wrote...

Sarah1281 wrote...
I got the feeling that he did. It's why he needed Delilah to open his eyes about Rendon and even then fondly reminisced about him with the Black Marshes.

I'm not so sure.  I think he lived with the illusion that he loved his father, but in reality it was more he looked up to his father, becuase as a noble that's what you do.  That all starts to crumble in Awakening when he talks about how Rendon hated his mother, when Delilah tells him the truth...etc.  It was very easy for him to do the 180 and say "Hey, my father really was a bastard!"

I think he genuinely loved him.  Kids give pretty unconditional love and so long as he never saw his dad's ugly side, all you need is just to have some moments of kindness like Rendon does seem to have shown him.  It's just that now that he's gotten a big disillusionment, everything gets re-evaluated in light of the new information.  It's like you lost your childhood, not just your family in the present.

[Patriciachr34]

There is a weird dichotomy that exists within a person when a child both loves and hates their parent. On the one hand, this is the person who raised you, to whom you looked to for guidance, whom you trusted implicitly. This creates an affection that a child can only feel for a parent figure. Usually, as you grow, you learn to see your parent as a person instead of a parent. This is when the child either bonds or breaks from their parent.



Since he was sent away at a relatively young age, Nate never had the chance to see his father for who is was as a person. This is why when Nate returns it is so hard for him to accept the evil that his father perpetrated. It would be interesting to see a story where Nate comes to terms with this and starts to acknowledge feelings for the person who killed his father.



Maybe I should dust off my writing hat and see if I could come up with an interesting short.

[Lady Catastrophe]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

There is a weird dichotomy that exists within a person when a child both loves and hates their parent. On the one hand, this is the person who raised you, to whom you looked to for guidance, whom you trusted implicitly. This creates an affection that a child can only feel for a parent figure. Usually, as you grow, you learn to see your parent as a person instead of a parent. This is when the child either bonds or breaks from their parent.

Since he was sent away at a relatively young age, Nate never had the chance to see his father for who is was as a person. This is why when Nate returns it is so hard for him to accept the evil that his father perpetrated. It would be interesting to see a story where Nate comes to terms with this and starts to acknowledge feelings for the person who killed his father.

You've actually made a very good point there,so bravo! Cookies for you!

Patriciachr34 wrote...
Maybe I should dust off my writing hat and see if I could come up with an interesting short.

Please do!

[Homebound]

I must say, I didnt like Nathaniel much. I gave him a chance to make things better for himself and his family and threw it away. What made you guys warm up and decide to recruit him?

[Lady Catastrophe]

Just_mike wrote...

I must say, I didnt like Nathaniel much. I gave him a chance to make things better for himself and his family and threw it away. What made you guys warm up and decide to recruit him?

To me,he just seemed a little delusional speaking to my PC (particular my HN) in that cell.I wanted to see if there was a chance to change Nate's mind about me and there was,so I did.

And let's not forget the voice..

[Sarah1281]

Just_mike wrote...

I must say, I didnt like Nathaniel much. I gave him a chance to make things better for himself and his family and threw it away. What made you guys warm up and decide to recruit him?

He clearly knew nothing about what happened (he tells the HN that he thinks the Couslands were working with the Orlesians but admits to not really knowing even before you recruit him and anyone has else less cause to hate him) and is lashing out for his father's death. I wasn't going to kill him for just going back to his old home for his family's things and that leaves recruiting him or letting him go. If you choose the latter then he comes back asking to join up.

[MelRedux]

Patriciachr34 wrote...

There is a weird dichotomy that exists within a person when a child both loves and hates their parent. On the one hand, this is the person who raised you, to whom you looked to for guidance, whom you trusted implicitly. This creates an affection that a child can only feel for a parent figure. Usually, as you grow, you learn to see your parent as a person instead of a parent. This is when the child either bonds or breaks from their parent.

Since he was sent away at a relatively young age, Nate never had the chance to see his father for who is was as a person. This is why when Nate returns it is so hard for him to accept the evil that his father perpetrated. It would be interesting to see a story where Nate comes to terms with this and starts to acknowledge feelings for the person who killed his father.

Maybe I should dust off my writing hat and see if I could come up with an interesting short.

I get what you're saying, and completely agree.  But were The Howes ever really parents?  Did they ever really act like parents?  I get the feeling with his feelings on Adraia, that they weren't.

[Patriciachr34]

Lady Catastrophe wrote...

Patriciachr34 wrote...

There is a weird dichotomy that exists within a person when a child both loves and hates their parent. On the one hand, this is the person who raised you, to whom you looked to for guidance, whom you trusted implicitly. This creates an affection that a child can only feel for a parent figure. Usually, as you grow, you learn to see your parent as a person instead of a parent. This is when the child either bonds or breaks from their parent.

Since he was sent away at a relatively young age, Nate never had the chance to see his father for who is was as a person. This is why when Nate returns it is so hard for him to accept the evil that his father perpetrated. It would be interesting to see a story where Nate comes to terms with this and starts to acknowledge feelings for the person who killed his father.

You've actually made a very good point there,so bravo! Cookies for you!

Patriciachr34 wrote...
Maybe I should dust off my writing hat and see if I could come up with an interesting short.

Please do!

[Pulls out dusty cardboard box (cough, cough), pulls out moth eaten burgandy fez, places hat on head, cracks knuckles]  Now for an outline...mind you its been about 15 years since I was a serious writer.  Please be kind.

[MelRedux]

LOL...you require a fez to write?

[Lady Catastrophe]

I require a monacle to draw.Your point?

[MelRedux]

Lady Catastrophe wrote...

I require a monacle to draw.Your point?

Touche.

[A71C3]

Patriciachr34 wrote...
Now for an outline...mind you its been about 15 years since I was a serious writer.  Please be kind.

Please keep us posted as to when you have your ff up and running. <3<3<3

So, a little late entering in this Rendon/Nathaniel relationship talk but I had a question.. on wikia it states this under Rendon's background:

Bryland also inferred that Howe's personality altered after the battle [of White River]

How can you get this piece of conversation with Bryland?

Modifié par A71C3, 20 juillet 2010 - 05:59 .

[Patriciachr34]

A71C3 wrote...

Patriciachr34 wrote...
Now for an outline...mind you its been about 15 years since I was a serious writer.  Please be kind.

Please keep us posted as to when you have your ff up and running. <3<3<3

So, a little late entering in this Rendon/Nathaniel relationship talk but I had a question.. on wikia it states this under Rendon's background:

Bryland also inferred that Howe's personality altered after the battle [of White River]

How can you get this piece of conversation with Bryland?

You stand around and listen to him talk at the Gnawed Noble at the table during Landsmeet after you kill Howe.  I think his statement in reference to Howe is, "The boy I knew died at River Dane."  I get the impression that Howe went totally over the top during the battle against Orlais.  It occured to me in my current noble play through that this is why Bryce placed guards at the armory when none were required before.  I think even Bryce knew Howe was up to something, but didn't know quite what it was.  At the very least, Bryce no longer trusted Rendon.

[Avilia]

Just_mike wrote...

I must say, I didnt like Nathaniel much. I gave him a chance to make things better for himself and his family and threw it away. What made you guys warm up and decide to recruit him?

The conversation option :  "You must really hate me"  or similar.  Where he talks about the Darkspawn and implies its easier to focus on the PC and the Grey Wardens as an enemy because you're here and quantifiable (my words).

I find his motivations much easier to understand and sympathise with than some other recruitable characters.

You should recruit him, even if only for the party banter.  Oghren has a crush ;-)

[A71C3]

So something I was playing around with in my head (mind you, I could be completely off)

Nathaniel strikes me as someone who not only worshipped his father but rather his whole family. Even in his inner dialogue in the comic (which I'm taking as canon) he states that he acts in his grandfather's memory when making his attack on Vigil's Keep. I think his worship for his father was just the most apparent since Rendon was his closest living relative that was made a hero during the Orlesian rebellion. A man driven to prove himself worthy of the name Howe makes for an interesting ally/enemy depending on who he views as the enemy.

I always found Nate's banter with Justice interesting since Justice upholds an even higher standard of what is just and unjust and actually judges Nate as nothing more than a common thief. Very interesting to see the different biases flying around.

Edit: you know, thinking about this more, it must be a Human Noble thing. As I recall, there was another human noble, whose father also fought during the Orlesian rebellion, who was also trying to be a hero, yet sadly met a tragic end...

Modifié par A71C3, 20 juillet 2010 - 10:39 .

[MelRedux]

I think he had "worshipped" the name Howe, as any good noble should be devoted to their family name. I think that blinded him as to what was really going on.

[A71C3]

So then, maybe this whole thing isn't about his father but rather how the Howes were made parias(sp?) because of the Grey Wardens?

[KnightofPhoenix]

So Nate thread, my current character that I am playing whom I absolutely adore, Aurora Cousland, will be attracted to Nathaniel. But she will not act upon that attraction because she has a hard time trusting after what Alistair and Morrigan will do to her prior the final battle (aka abandon her). Long story, that I might explain later. But this is essentially my way of justifying the lack of romance in Awakening.

So, I might have to take pointers from this thread when the time comes, just to have a clear image of Aurora's attraction to Nate that she seems to be resisting, and how to RP it.