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[Avilia]

A71C3 wrote...

Avilia wrote...
Perhaps he thinks its worth the risk to end any chance of future Blights?

So..
possibility of a crazy broodmother + powerful emissaries/Disciples + creepy powerful darkspawn/Children < chance of ending Blights

I'm not seeing it.  Is it one of those, "as long as there's a chance, then we should take it" kind of reasoning?

I think so...the Prima guide says its about missing the chance to end the Blights.

Just between us, I think its a game mechanic thing, like saving Amaranthine.  Must have one disapprove and approve for every decision.  I could be wrong on that though.

I just don't think Nate's character is shown as being that pragmatic.  If he was Morrigan, then yeah, I'd believe they'd want to take the chance.  But Nate?  Seems a bit out there - but i am prepared to be corrected (as always ;-) )

Darn ToP - because there's no such thing as too much Nate:

Modifié par Avilia, 09 août 2010 - 05:05 .

[A71C3]

Avilia wrote...
I think so...the Prima guide says its about missing the chance to end the Blights.

Just between us, I think its a game mechanic thing, like saving Amaranthine.  Must have one disapprove and approve for every decision.  I could be wrong on that though.

I just don't think Nate's character is shown as being that pragmatic.  If he was Morrigan, then yeah, I'd believe they'd want to take the chance.  But Nate?  Seems a bit out there - but i am prepared to be corrected (as always ;-) )

I'd have to agree. Someone had mentioned the whole save/destroy Amaranthine decision and of course, it'd make more sense for Nate to want to save the city that his ancestors built as well as his sister is currently living in but nooooooo, you have to persuade him to stay and fight.

The Architect thing also doesn't make sense in that, okay, Nate wants to end Blights and thinks the Architect is the way to go.  I'll go with that.  But then the very fact that you lose approval for not siding with the Architect stumps me.  Did Nate feel that strongly about the Architect's proposal?  Listening to every dialogue that the Architect gives you before making a decision still doesn't convince me to side with him.

Avilia wrote...

I love that picture.

Modifié par A71C3, 09 août 2010 - 05:11 .

[Avilia]

I find him very unconvincing as well. I haven't read the Calling (I think that's the book the Architect is in?) so I don't have access to any more information than is presented to me in game.



Nothing I see convinces me it would be anything but stupid to side with him. Nate isn't stupid so the loss of approval is vexing. Particularly so late in the game when there is absolutely nothing you can do about it.

[CalJones]

I think it's more an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" kind of deal.

Architect does argue well. I spared him in my first Awakening run, and that's with the knowledge of what he was up to in the Calling (obviously I was trying to ignore that, since my Warden doesn't have that knowledge). The epilogue does seem to suggest it has a positive effect, for now at least.

I'll go with the other options in my next run.

[Avilia]

A71C3 wrote...

I love that picture.

You realise that will make me try to think an even Nate'ier one..

[A71C3]

CalJones wrote...
I think it's more an "enemy of my enemy is my friend" kind of deal.
Architect does argue well. I spared him in my first Awakening run ...

I'm curious, what parts of his arguments did you agree with or convinced you to side with him?

CalJones wrote...
The epilogue does seem to suggest it has a positive effect, for now at least.

See, and that's something else that bugs me. Nothing about the darkspawn has been simple enough to fix. So when something like an Awakening happens, I have to wonder how long the positive effect lasts for before something even worse comes along.

Avilia wrote...
You realise that will make me try to think an even Nate'ier one..

LOL I misrread "Nate'ier" as being "naughty". Oi, I need sleep. But yes, please post a Nate'ier one.

[Sarah1281]

See, and that's something else that bugs me. Nothing about the darkspawn has been simple enough to fix. So when something like an Awakening happens, I have to wonder how long the positive effect lasts for before something even worse comes along.

See, I worry that 'the Deep Roads have never been quieter' means 'they're up to something and the **** is about to hit the fan.'

[Kail Ashton]

Well least we'll get more Nate in DA2, i'm still hope'n he'll be playible early on before he has to go back home to Amaranthine for Awakening @___@ (maybe comes back after amaranthine? could he be romancible for femhawke??will he hook up with valena at long last???)

[Sarah1281]

Kail Ashton wrote...

Well least we'll get more Nate in DA2, i'm still hope'n he'll be playible early on before he has to go back home to Amaranthine for Awakening @___@ (maybe comes back after amaranthine? could he be romancible for femhawke??will he hook up with valena at long last???)

...Don't even joke about that.

Modifié par Sarah1281, 09 août 2010 - 07:31 .

[Avilia]

Kail Ashton wrote...

Well least we'll get more Nate in DA2, i'm still hope'n he'll be playible early on before he has to go back home to Amaranthine for Awakening @___@ (maybe comes back after amaranthine? could he be romancible for femhawke??will he hook up with valena at long last???)

Bite your tongue

[A71C3]

Sarah1281 wrote...
See, I worry that 'the Deep Roads have never been quieter' means 'they're up to something and the **** is about to hit the fan.'

I couldn't have said it better myself. Well, with any hope, maybe in DA2 we could see what choices from Awakening carried over concerning whether or not your Warden sided with the Architect.  Wait, will Awakening choices even carry over?

Kail Ashton wrote...
could he be romancible for femhawke??will he hook up with valena at long last???)

Let's hope for fangirl's sake that it's the former and not the latter.

Modifié par A71C3, 09 août 2010 - 06:43 .

[Avilia]

Buntie had only just arrived in Amaranthine but already she couldn't remember why she hadn't wanted to come ;-)







(The expression on her face made me laugh)

[jenncgf]

The first thing that they say about Nathaniel, after family connections, is that he's highly practical. I think his support of sparing the Architect, and even letting Amaranthine burn (note, you don't get disapproval from Nate if you argue with him and spare it), are both related to that.



He's thinking long view, greater good type of stuff I think. For Amaranthine, he's inclined to believe what the guard says at face value, that the city is already toast. So therefore, in Nate's mind the group would do the greater good by saving the keep.



For the Architect, he's again taking what he says at face value and if it means keeping the human race from being annihilated in the future due to future blights (if we spare him we might *not* have a blight), he's willing to take the chance. He's going to always go for the pragmatic decision when it's presented.



Also, maybe he's just *that* badass that a little thing like angry broodmothers doesn't bother him.



Nathaniel is really interesting in his conversations in that he shows a real lack of short term total picture stuff. (see conversations with Sigrun.) He's really practical/pragmatic/what have you, but he also doesn't get all the information he would want and he's trusting of what others say.

[MKDAWUSS]

Avilia wrote...

A71C3 wrote...

Maybe you smarter people can help me understand this, why does Nate side with the Architect? I can't figure it out.

Perhaps he thinks its worth the risk to end any chance of future Blights?

That's what he basically says when you turn the Architect down. Which, by the way, I did. Sorry, but I didn't trust him. I didn't quite think that that would really stop all Blights, instead make them much more worse, since now they have intelligence, and can use military tactics in future darkspawn attacks.

[Lady Catastrophe]

A71C3 wrote...

Kail Ashton wrote...
could he be romancible for femhawke??will he hook up with valena at long last???)

Let's hope for fangirl's sake that it's the former and not the latter.

Let's also hope for Velanna's. <_<

jenncgf wrote...

The first thing that they say about
Nathaniel, after family connections, is that he's highly practical. I
think his support of sparing the Architect, and even letting Amaranthine
burn (note, you don't get disapproval from Nate if you argue with him
and spare it), are both related to that.

I agree with you on this point.The fact that Nate wanted to side with the Architect confused the hell out of me at first,but now I actually think it matches his practicality rather well.
I do think it's silly that he wants to save Vigil's Keep over Amaranthine,though.

[jenncgf]

Lady Catastrophe wrote...

I agree with you on this point.The fact that Nate wanted to side with the Architect confused the hell out of me at first,but now I actually think it matches his practicality rather well.
I do think it's silly that he wants to save Vigil's Keep over Amaranthine,though.

In my mind, I'm thinking that he's putting aside his personal feelings and assuming she's either a) already dead or escaped.  I think it would have been more convincing if they had made him look like he was grieving when he says that they should go back to the keep.

Alternately, I suppose it's possible that she doesn't live inside the city walls, although I think that in that case it'd be worse for her. 

[Lady Catastrophe]

I just thought it was a little odd how after seing Delilah for the first time in about eight years Nathaniel suddenly thought that saving the Keep was more important than saving Amaranthine.I mean,I know he grew up in the Keep,but Amaranthine is not only his family's former Arling,but it's full of innocent people.I would have thought Nate's practicality would demand that he save the citizens rather than the Vigil.

[jenncgf]

Lady Catastrophe wrote...

I just thought it was a little odd how after seing Delilah for the first time in about eight years Nathaniel suddenly thought that saving the Keep was more important than saving Amaranthine.I mean,I know he grew up in the Keep,but Amaranthine is not only his family's former Arling,but it's full of innocent people.I would have thought Nate's practicality would demand that he save the citizens rather than the Vigil.

Right, but they've been told by the constable that the entire city is dead.  That's why I think Nathaniel's practicality would rear its head, especially given his lack of experience with evil Bioware writers. 

[Nerevar-as]

He often goes to the pragmatic side, not just in Amaranthine.

[MelRedux]

I sided with the Architect my first playthrough, thinking that I'll use all the help I could get to kick the Mother's arse.  I also though it would be possible to kill him after I was done with the Mother.  That didn't work out so well.....

I'd like to think that Nate was thinking the same thing

[A71C3]

jenncgf wrote...
In my mind, I'm thinking that he's putting aside his personal feelings and assuming she's either a) already dead or escaped.

I'll admit, when I first played Awakening and had to make the decision to try and save/destroy the city, I destroyed it because of this: Duncan
Duncan was presented with the decision to save/destroy a village that contained tainted survivors and he chose to destroy the village, which makes sense since that would prevent the taint from spreading. My character felt the same way, even if you eradicated all the Children & Disciples, why allow a whole city of tainted survivors live in order to just taint more innocent people? So, yes destroying Amarathine was the most "practical" choice for a Grey Warden to make, so I can see why Nate would also choose that.

But going back to the Architect choice, if we follow that a Grey Warden's duty is to stop Blights how does it make sense to allow darkspawn to freely live about underground and possibly on the surface and continue to taint people, regardless of whether or not it's intentional? Sure they won't be slaves to the "song" but they could still accidently stumble across an Old God underground and still taint it. The only thing the Architect can do is free the darkspawn from the song, not cure them of their taint. So how is it pragmatic to side with the Architect when even the Architect's solution isn't wholly thought out?

Nerevar-as wrote...
He often goes to the pragmatic side, not just in Amaranthine.

Like when?

Mel_Redux wrote...
I sided with the Architect my first playthrough, thinking that I'll use all the help I could get to kick the Mother's arse. I also though it would be possible to kill him after I was done with the Mother. That didn't work out so well.....

I'd like to think that Nate was thinking the same thing

Let's hope he was thinking the same thing because right now, I'm rather angry at our dark, broody, sexy man.

jenncgf wrote...
Nathaniel is really interesting in his conversations in that he shows a real lack of short term total picture stuff. (see conversations with Sigrun.) He's really practical/pragmatic/what have you, but he also doesn't get all the information he would want and he's trusting of what others say.

He is interesting but I think it's more a lack of long-term sight. Sure "freeing" the darkspawn might make things quiet down for a bit but then "at what cost"?

EDIT: You know, I really wish there was a "preview" function on this board. *sigh*

Modifié par A71C3, 09 août 2010 - 05:28 .

[A71C3]

Avilia wrote...
Buntie had only just arrived in Amaranthine but already she couldn't remember why she hadn't wanted to come ;-)

Oh she looks so cute! What is that armour she's wearing?

[MelRedux]

So here's a thought I had (instead of actually WORKING), and a question for all you creative people (becuase I am not one of them):



It seems fairly reasonable that one could encounter the deceased in the fade, think about seeing Duncan in DA:O, for example. What would happen if your warden, especially Cousland, found themselves in the fade and saw Papa Howe? What if Nathaniel saw him? What if the PC and Nathaniel were together and saw him?



I'd like to think Nathaniel would stab the bastard in the face for being a douche, but that's just me.

[jenncgf]

Mel_Redux wrote...

So here's a thought I had (instead of actually WORKING), and a question for all you creative people (becuase I am not one of them):

It seems fairly reasonable that one could encounter the deceased in the fade, think about seeing Duncan in DA:O, for example. What would happen if your warden, especially Cousland, found themselves in the fade and saw Papa Howe? What if Nathaniel saw him? What if the PC and Nathaniel were together and saw him?

I'd like to think Nathaniel would stab the bastard in the face for being a douche, but that's just me.

Hmm, that's a good question!

I always felt like the DAO fade sequence was the demon taking events/persons/situations out of the victim's mind and twisting the appearance to reflect what the demon thought would work on its victim.  That being said, Duncan acted all wrong in the fade sequence.  Even on my first playthrough, I was like, "I don't know who this is, but it sure ain't Duncan!  The man is positively GLIB!"

So, I could totally see a demon resurrecting Howe for the warden and for Nathaniel.  It might even set up two separate instances - nightmare for the warden and 'you're the best son EVER!' for Nathaniel or somesuch?  And yeah, how you interact with the demon would be however you see your character reacting to its approach, sure!

Hmm....now I'm thinking about it.  

[MelRedux]

It would be the perfect nightmare for a Cousland. And the "you're the best son EVER" is interesting.....if Nate is love with Cousland (damn you Bioware for not making it so!), could he look past it?



"He's telling me I'm awesome! But, he killed her family! Um, oh, uh...crap!"