3883 réponses à ce sujet

[HoonDing]

As long as the Octopus is on Germany's side, who's gonna beat them?

Modifié par virumor, 03 juillet 2010 - 04:34 .

[Fexelea]

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...

Then, to settle this topic once and for all, we should accept that you have your feeling and we have ours. No more need to stretch this any more.

I made a comment, and people chose to comment as well. I don't see that as stretching but as a conversation. The post you quoted was more about the_one misinterpreting a statement than any particular view.

[the_one_54321]

Fexelea wrote...

Neofelis Nebulosa wrote...
Then, to settle this topic once and for all, we should accept that you have your feeling and we have ours. No more need to stretch this any more.

I made a comment, and people chose to comment as well. I don't see that as stretching but as a conversation. The post you quoted was more about the_one misinterpreting a statement than any particular view.

No, Neofelis is completely right. If "soul" is something you can't put into words then it's something personal, that's only for you. You can't make any kind of an objective claim about it and all your comments about the soul in the last game become opinions with not strict tangible relationship to how they played, except for how it made you feel.

[Sa Seba]

I think what Fexelea refers to is the methodical, efficient play style of the Germans. Strategy, tactic and playing by the book is what Germany does. Many other teams play more forward, offensive, with more temperament. The German play style is less exciting to watch, it's like a machine.
That's what we do.

/Jawohl!

Modifié par Sa Seba, 03 juillet 2010 - 04:43 .

[Fexelea]

the_one_54321 wrote...

No, Neofelis is completely right. If "soul" is something you can't put into words then it's something personal, that's only for you. You can't make any kind of an objective claim about it and all your comments about the soul in the last game become opinions with not strict tangible relationship to how they played, except for how it made you feel.

Don't highjack other people's comments to try to further your feeble point. Do you believe that you have a soul? Define it! Oh, if you can't explain it to me then it must be just in your head. Please.

I have stated what I think is the soul of the game in the page before, go back and read it if you want, instead of demanding explanations that I do not owe you.

As I have also stated football is a sport you "feel", and I am very saddened when I see players who don't feel their team (Like England in this world cup it was pathetic seeing them smiling after losing!). Of course my comments are opinions, just as anyone else's. This opinion of the german methodology for playing, the "efficient" approach has been called souless by plenty of people, and if you are so unaware of the sport as to miss that it is not of my doing nor my concern.

I will use whatever adjective I find the most descriptive of that which I observe. I have highlighted time and again I don't like the defensive approach that modern football coaching is leaning towards because it takes that very soul out of the game. For this match, Germany played with a strong back line and waited for mistakes, then advanced only when it was "safe" to do so. It works, fair play, and they deserved the win because Argentina did not play well. However, I found it soulless.

[Fexelea]

Sa Seba wrote...

I think what Fexelea refers to is the methodical, efficient play style of the Germans. Strategy, tactic and playing by the book is what Germany does. Many other teams play more forward, offensive, with more temperament. The German play style is less exciting to watch, it's like a machine.
That's what we do.

/Jawohl!

Yes, this is what I mean. Thanks. It's quite late over here and I am not that eloquent.

[flem1]

Germany's secret to winning?

Boogers.

[Sa Seba]

flem1 wrote...

Germany's secret to winning?
Boogers.

nasty

@Fexelea: I was thinking the same thing about the play style as I watched the game, but then, I actually had hoped for Germany to play that way against Argentina. That's the only way we can win, even though it doesn't look pretty.

[Fexelea]

Lol that's fair enough and I believe that the holes in the Argentine defense and their offensive push were obvious giveaways that this would be the best tactic.



The problem for me is that more and more teams are starting to do that and it just gets very dull. Counter goals are exciting for the speed but cannot come even close to when you see fantastic, natural passes and a score that orchestrates throughout a game. I honestly thought that Germany, with the fresh blood and all, could play with more flair and bring some spice to the match... so I was dissapointed. But in the end, it is about who wins, so I get it.

[the_one_54321]

Sa Seba wrote...
I think what Fexelea refers to is the methodical, efficient play style of the Germans. Strategy, tactic and playing by the book is what Germany does. Many other teams play more forward, offensive, with more temperament. The German play style is less exciting to watch, it's like a machine.
That's what we do.

/Jawohl!

That I can understand. Though I think it's completely unreasonable to put as much pressure to win on these players and managers as the world does, and then to expect them to also play "beautiful." I just expect my teams to play hard and with dedication for the whole game, and to be good sportsmen.

[Kyda]

Sa Seba wrote...

@Fexelea: I was thinking the same thing about the play style as I watched the game, but then, I actually had hoped for Germany to play that way against Argentina. That's the only way we can win, even though it doesn't look pretty.

it is always a matter of decission, I for once like the other way... the way Argentina was playing... it feels right for me. But then again, you get exposed and it is the price you pay to do it. As i said, fair victory no matter what because they had the choise and so did we...

[Sa Seba]

Well, lets hope then for a more even match next time. When the pressure rises, the strategies will have to be changed on the spot by the field players, then we will hopefully see more dynamic and creativity by the German team as well.
I believe any other team would have gone on attacking the Argentinian goal more offensively, trying to score more goals, whereas Germany played relatively safe.
Sometimes I wish we Germans were a little more outgoing and risky.

[Fexelea]

the_one_54321 wrote...
That I can understand. Though I think it's completely unreasonable to put as much pressure to win on these players and managers as the world does, and then to expect them to also play "beautiful." I just expect my teams to play hard and with dedication for the whole game, and to be good sportsmen.

It's not unreasonable, Brazil have managed to do it time and again. In the end there is only one winner so many beautiful, efficient and ugly teams get left behind. But the value of the matches is what matters, and the flair that spices up the match is what made the WC the must-watch. Nowadays everyone is too scared to lose, so we are getting defensive and counter setups. Thus FIFA deciding to revise its 4 year policy, to see if an olympic approach would encourage more adventurous play once more.

[Ponce de Leon]

I really don't know how Argentina lost. They were somehow superior. But Germany had a strong enough defense and had a counterattack that cannot be rivaled by any other team. Luck? No, I don't think so. Germany proved to be stronger, although Argentina gave her heart in the 60 minutes they played. And basically, all the errors were made by the defenders who were cloud dreaming.



Congrats Germany. Earned victory 200%

[Fexelea]

@Sa Seba:



I don't think Paraguay will make it so you are up against Spain next... who also have a dodgy history... I think that would be an easy win for an efficient approach... Boo for me lol

[DragonRageGT]

Fexelea wrote...

LMAO

Argentina did play terrible and I was very surprised by their performance. This match, however, they didn't deserve to win. I don't think Paraguay have what it takes and Uruguay are dear to me for their 1930 victory but don't seem like a better team than Netherlands...

And that's the beauty of football. Sometimes the better team don't win. There is no way you can say Brazil is not a much better team than Holland. Watch the 1st half again. That is Brazil playing with soul. I really don't know what happend but it was not Holland who played great in the second half. Brazil simply didn't play at all. It happens sometimes. They were extremely nervous and Holland's very South American style "catimba" made them even more nervous.  Like that Robben jump with a face of extreme pain when nothing had even touched him. It's in the pic there few pages back.

If you think Uruguay cannot beat Holland, you really don't know football. All they need is to be in their day to win. Like Holland was in their day yesterday. In a cold analysis, Holland is not even par to Spain and Germany, they way these two are playing (And Slovakia had a very bad luck with the final shots in their match against Holland... nervous players.. lol) but unlike Basketball, Baseball, American Football and few other sports, player statistics mean nothing in Football.

Spain has a record of going yellow in World Cups. I really hope they can overcome that today and in the next days.

[Sa Seba]

If Messi had had more support and with a more experienced coach, this game would have been way more exciting, with a likely win for Argentina.

Modifié par Sa Seba, 03 juillet 2010 - 05:23 .

[HoonDing]

Spain will play like they always do, passing the ball around all the time without creating too many chances and having 75% possession... Paraguay has a solid defense and a dangerous counterattack, they might win.

[DragonRageGT]

Fexelea didn't watch the same match as me as well. Germany didn't score in counter attacks except for the 4th goal!!!!

First was in a foul trained play. Second was a beautiful team play with Podolsky serving Klose. Third was another great play by Podolsky serving the guy who had never scored in his life. Fourth goal might be considered a counter but it wasn't even a fast one... just a good attack with a good cross for a beautiful finish.

And seriously... 4x0... what more can you ask? The time where matches were 10x7 are long gone... well, not to Santos FC with Robinho, Neymar and Ganso. They score over 100 goals in the first half of this year in Brazil. And (#$%@#) Dunga left Neymar and Ganso here...

Modifié par RageGT, 03 juillet 2010 - 05:25 .

[Fexelea]

Rage, remember it was me who said that said that Netherlands didn't win that match but Brazil lost it. And it was a shame (not shameful, a shame)

Please don't pontificate about knowing football based on a sentence, it is not a nice approach to a conversation if you start it by flaunting a remark like that.

I don't think you meant it that way so I will clarify:

I don't think that at this point, having lost Suarez, and coming off that stress, Uruguay can pull it together. I hope they do and I believe they technically and physically could, but something tells me they won't be mentally ready for it, whilst Netherlands is riding a wave after (with Brazil's aid) defeating Brazil.

Spain... Oh it would be very nice if they won this world cup... for once! But then if Germany plays a strong defense I think they will prevail.

Edit to add: Rage you are missing the comment itself. Germany played it safe, their goals were not the product of offense but of waiting in the back, and biding their time. After the second goal they went for it as they were reassured it was safe, which imo would be better done throughtout the match rather than in the last 20 minutes.

Modifié par Fexelea, 03 juillet 2010 - 05:26 .

[DragonRageGT]

Fexelea wrote...

Rage, remember it was me who said that said that Netherlands didn't win that match but Brazil lost it. And it was a shame (not shameful, a shame)

Heh, didn't remember it was you who said it but it was well said! Now, I repeat, if you or anyone else think that Uruguay cannot defeat Holland...

You obviously know football enough not to make such statement. Yes, we can certainly think it has a great chance of not happening. I'm there with you. But this, that you call soul (alma), we also call "raça", which is when someone gives 110% of what he's got. Uruguay is or was very famous for their "raça" which was something that Argentina didn't have today.

[flem1]

Paraguay has still never scored a single goal in the knockout stages. There's no way they beat Spain.



It's funny how Rage thinks their good half showed the real Brazil, while their bad half showed the real Netherlands. A less sympathetic observer might say that Brazil was lucky to catch the Dutch with their pants down after their best central defender had to be pulled from the lineup minutes before kickoff.



But yes, they did to Brazil what Brazil and other South American countries love doing to everyone else... Ahh, gamesmanship. Of course, Dunga walked right into it with his gameplan to kick Robben whenever possible.

[Fexelea]

Well there lies the conflict... Is Suarez a hero or a cheat? I have watched the replay numerous times and I see the feeling. Uruguay was superior, they deserved the win, but they lacked the stamina to keep the extension time going well. They still fought and fought, and that was admirable, and their passion and his "sacrifice" for his team is certainly worthy of praise. But then things like that have a tendency to spoil the mood of the team