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Miranda Lawson - our favorite woman in the galaxy (III)


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#3001
Nightwriter

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jtav wrote...

It didn't bother me much, mostly because I think she's masking a healthy dose of terror and is about two seconds away from a nervous breakdown because she's been forcibly reminded that the crew probably is going to doe. This includes her. She's always known, but now the knowledge is no longer merely theoretical. So she gets angry.


That's a wonderful explanation, but it's one you invented as a Miranda fan.

The actual game shows no support for this. I think in this scene she was just written as a harsh character acting harsh.

#3002
Ieldra

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I'm not currently playing the game, so no new screenshots. But here's an old favorite. Hard to imagine I made that more than five months ago - one of my first Miranda shots - and it's still one of my favorites.



Posted Image

#3003
Nightwriter

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Miranda's eyes are so blue they make me look at Sheploo's eyes (I always use Sheploo for maleSheps).

And I realize Sheploo's eyes are blue, too. Miranda's eyes are explainable because she was genetically engineered, but you'd think Sheploo would have no business having anything other than brown eyes.

#3004
jtav

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Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
When I get home, I'm doing another Miranda romance game. I'm sick of these conflicting feelings. Sick. I must like it on some level if I'm using one of my favorite songs as a theme. I'm determined to either learn to love it or start hating it altogether.

Just stop thinking of parts you can avoid and it'll go well. ;) And remember that people get stupid when they fall in love - keeping that in mind, some not-so-good lines may be forgiveable.



I'll attempt to do that. Can I avoid the "I'll be by when things are quiet" conversation? That's when things start going badly for me. The problem for me when it comes to the romance is that all the stuff I like is at the beginning and all the stuff I hate's at the end, which usually means that by the time I complete the romance, it's been hours since I've heard a line I like. I prefer over the top romanticism to unrestrained passion, icomprehensible as it may be. My contrarian nature aside, I really want to love Miranda's romance because I love her and I don't like being the thread oddball. I've been told it's downright strange not to like her romance.

#3005
Nightwriter

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Just save right before the lines you like. Toward the end of the romance, reload those saves to remind yourself of why you like the romance. It's important to remember the good stuff.

I often reload the hug scene right before the final mission.

#3006
jtav

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I might try that. I know Ieldra and some others disagree, but I feel like "So don't die" should have been part of the immediate lead-up to the love scene. Failing that, give the engine room some significance. There are bugs all over the ship. Have Miranda talk about how both their quarters are bugged in an early conversation. The only place they aren't--the only place anyone is truly alone--is the engine core. I'd also give her playfulness a brittle edge. She's trying to pretend normalcy, but she knows she's likely hours away from death.

Modifié par jtav, 21 juillet 2010 - 08:56 .


#3007
TMA LIVE

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Hey jtav, this might be a bit late, but the Samara romance doesn't effect the picture in your cabin. So I don't know why your picture went down. Must have been because of something else.

With the Miranda romance, though I never did it, I wish there was an option to ask her to see her in your cabin instead. If she asked why, you'd say, "Because it's not about making things perfect, it's about being with the one you love for as long as you can." And then you get an alternate romance scene in your cabin.

Modifié par TMA LIVE, 21 juillet 2010 - 08:38 .


#3008
Jebel Krong

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...
human preoccupation with sex is uncurable: it pretty much what drives our species 99% time...

Yes...we just can't do as many other reasonable mammal species and limit it to specific times of the year. Here's a task for genetic engineering if you ask me.

avatr didn't have the most complex of stories - go and see something like inception if you want that, but cameron pushed the boundaries in so many other areas, it's often better to have one touchstone that the audience can easily connect with, besides it wasn't that bad, just not original.

Thanks for pointing me to Inception. I'd have missed it otherwise.... As for Avatar, if you make a film that people want to see just for it's special effects, then making the story actually interesting instead of appealing to the lowest common denominator won't hurt your sales much. As it is, I maintain it's the disappointment of the year.


you are very welcome - inception is a stunning film, very different from avatar, but cerebral and brilliant. very similar in feel and cinematography to the "dark knight" but with a very different premise and awesome concept and story.

#3009
Prudii Aden

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Something I ran across whilst browsing - a bit of fiction regarding the last moments Miri spends at her father's place. Rather well done I find.



http://www.fanfictio...s_Possibilities

#3010
jtav

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Thanks, PA. It was great. Why can't I write anything that good?



I've begun the replay I talked about earlier. I will learn to love the romance or finally hate it. I'm sick of being the thread oddball. Six months of these conflicting feelings. (I've been like this since the game came out. I didn't wake up one morning and decide I hated it) This particular Shep romanced Liara, so I pray devoutly for no catfights.

#3011
Prudii Aden

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You can jtav. Stop being so hard on yourself.

#3012
jtav

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I wonder why Miranda has such a drastic personality shift after Freedom's Progress. More precisely, I wonder why both she and Jacob were written so differently before and after, I like the "ice queen" and find her more interesting than the Miranda of the Normandy. She is cold and chillingly ruthless in dealing with Wilson. She's matter of fact about the death of her staff, but there's a buried fury there too. She doesn't like Shepard, but she's going to make sure he succeeds. The first hour of the game makes me love her so much, and it's hard not to morn when she perks up on the Normandy even though she's now interesting in a different way because of her sister and self-esteem issues.

#3013
Darrekx2

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in the intro of the game is also a different miranda than in the first hour of the game.

I mean first the "ill follow him" etc. and then when she finally has resurrected the real shepard its brr icequeen instead of giving him a chance to prove himself.

#3014
Pacifien

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Darrekx2 wrote...
in the intro of the game is also a different miranda than in the first hour of the game.
I mean first the "ill follow him" etc. and then when she finally has resurrected the real shepard its brr icequeen instead of giving him a chance to prove himself.

I think Miranda is the sort who needs to adjust when a situation has fallen out of her control. Shepard was not supposed wake up the way he did. She's probably just as upset with herself as she might be toward him that the end product doesn't meet her expectations.

After Freedom's Progress, things settle in and she realizes the Shepard she just worked with in the field is indeed the Shepard she wanted to resurrect.

#3015
EffectedByTheMasses

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Pacifien wrote...

Darrekx2 wrote...
in the intro of the game is also a different miranda than in the first hour of the game.
I mean first the "ill follow him" etc. and then when she finally has resurrected the real shepard its brr icequeen instead of giving him a chance to prove himself.

I think Miranda is the sort who needs to adjust when a situation has fallen out of her control. Shepard was not supposed wake up the way he did. She's probably just as upset with herself as she might be toward him that the end product doesn't meet her expectations.

After Freedom's Progress, things settle in and she realizes the Shepard she just worked with in the field is indeed the Shepard she wanted to resurrect.


Well, to me during the intro I sensed quite a bit of resentment and possibly even envy when Miranda says 'he's a bloody hero... they'll follow him' or whatever the line was. So therefore the ice queen afterwards would make sense. If I were in Miranda's situation, being engineered for perfection and the best at my job, when suddenly I'm told to serve under a person who has been as good as dead for the past two years without fully being able to prove his/her worth right away, I'd be pretty cold and harsh too. Also, initially after Shepard has proved his worth in the first few missions, I suppose Miranda begins to see why Shepard is the hero that he is, and begins to appreciate him more as a soldier as well as a person. 

#3016
Caihn

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EffectedByTheMasses wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Darrekx2 wrote...
in the intro of the game is also a different miranda than in the first hour of the game.
I mean first the "ill follow him" etc. and then when she finally has resurrected the real shepard its brr icequeen instead of giving him a chance to prove himself.

I think Miranda is the sort who needs to adjust when a situation has fallen out of her control. Shepard was not supposed wake up the way he did. She's probably just as upset with herself as she might be toward him that the end product doesn't meet her expectations.

After Freedom's Progress, things settle in and she realizes the Shepard she just worked with in the field is indeed the Shepard she wanted to resurrect.


Well, to me during the intro I sensed quite a bit of resentment and possibly even envy when Miranda says 'he's a bloody hero... they'll follow him' or whatever the line was. So therefore the ice queen afterwards would make sense. If I were in Miranda's situation, being engineered for perfection and the best at my job, when suddenly I'm told to serve under a person who has been as good as dead for the past two years without fully being able to prove his/her worth right away, I'd be pretty cold and harsh too. Also, initially after Shepard has proved his worth in the first few missions, I suppose Miranda begins to see why Shepard is the hero that he is, and begins to appreciate him more as a soldier as well as a person. 


I have pretty much the same analyse.

#3017
Breakdown Boy

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Yannkee wrote...

EffectedByTheMasses wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Darrekx2 wrote...
in the intro of the game is also a different miranda than in the first hour of the game.
I mean first the "ill follow him" etc. and then when she finally has resurrected the real shepard its brr icequeen instead of giving him a chance to prove himself.

I think Miranda is the sort who needs to adjust when a situation has fallen out of her control. Shepard was not supposed wake up the way he did. She's probably just as upset with herself as she might be toward him that the end product doesn't meet her expectations.

After Freedom's Progress, things settle in and she realizes the Shepard she just worked with in the field is indeed the Shepard she wanted to resurrect.


Well, to me during the intro I sensed quite a bit of resentment and possibly even envy when Miranda says 'he's a bloody hero... they'll follow him' or whatever the line was. So therefore the ice queen afterwards would make sense. If I were in Miranda's situation, being engineered for perfection and the best at my job, when suddenly I'm told to serve under a person who has been as good as dead for the past two years without fully being able to prove his/her worth right away, I'd be pretty cold and harsh too. Also, initially after Shepard has proved his worth in the first few missions, I suppose Miranda begins to see why Shepard is the hero that he is, and begins to appreciate him more as a soldier as well as a person. 


I have pretty much the same analyse.


It really is a case where Shep had to work to gain her trust, she doesn't give it easily. It makes you think what TIM did to gain Miranda's trust.

I love the whole way the relationship starts out, all that tension and measuring each other up, and then how Miri needs help with her sister and the bond that can be formed after that. Best Li conversations in the game, the whole ME2 LI experience was top notch and a defenit improvement on ME1.

#3018
Kabraxal

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I don't know if anyone that read it is still here or if anyone cares... but Chapter 15 is up for At the Edge of Heaven.

#3019
Ieldra

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jtav wrote...
I might try that. I know Ieldra and some others disagree, but I feel like "So don't die" should have been part of the immediate lead-up to the love scene. Failing that, give the engine room some significance. There are bugs all over the ship. Have Miranda talk about how both their quarters are bugged in an early conversation. The only place they aren't--the only place anyone is truly alone--is the engine core. I'd also give her playfulness a brittle edge. She's trying to pretend normalcy, but she knows she's likely hours away from death.


I don't necessarily disagree - if you mean the elevator scene when speaking of "lead-up". That could do with better dialogue. It's only the engine room scene itself I think better without dialogue.

Apart from that, I agree with Nightwriter that it's important to remember the parts you like. Unfortunately, I don't think you can avoid "I'll be by when things are quiet" (what is it that bothers you about that one?), nor can you avoid getting "Oh, I'm definitely interested" at least once IIRC (I blame Meer for delivering this in a creepy way). That's the only one bugging me - I can see why you'd want the "promise" dialogue in its place.   

#3020
Ieldra

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Prudii Aden wrote...
Something I ran across whilst browsing - a bit of fiction regarding the last moments Miri spends at her father's place. Rather well done I find.

http://www.fanfictio...s_Possibilities

Very nice. Quite a bit different from my own vision, but very well written.

#3021
Ieldra

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EffectedByTheMasses wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Darrekx2 wrote...
in the intro of the game is also a different miranda than in the first hour of the game.
I mean first the "ill follow him" etc. and then when she finally has resurrected the real shepard its brr icequeen instead of giving him a chance to prove himself.

I think Miranda is the sort who needs to adjust when a situation has fallen out of her control. Shepard was not supposed wake up the way he did. She's probably just as upset with herself as she might be toward him that the end product doesn't meet her expectations.

After Freedom's Progress, things settle in and she realizes the Shepard she just worked with in the field is indeed the Shepard she wanted to resurrect.

Well, to me during the intro I sensed quite a bit of resentment and possibly even envy when Miranda says 'he's a bloody hero... they'll follow him' or whatever the line was. So therefore the ice queen afterwards would make sense. If I were in Miranda's situation, being engineered for perfection and the best at my job, when suddenly I'm told to serve under a person who has been as good as dead for the past two years without fully being able to prove his/her worth right away, I'd be pretty cold and harsh too. Also, initially after Shepard has proved his worth in the first few missions, I suppose Miranda begins to see why Shepard is the hero that he is, and begins to appreciate him more as a soldier as well as a person. 

She appreciates him for his competence first, appreciating him as a person comes later, only after her loyalty mission. Also, I don't think she's that cold and harsh to Shepard. She's keeping her distance from Shepard as a person, which is a trait of hers and understandable in the contect you mentioned.

I agree with Pacifien that things settle in after Freedom's Progress, but the change still comes too suddenly for my taste.

#3022
Ieldra

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Kabraxal wrote...
I don't know if anyone that read it is still here or if anyone cares... but Chapter 15 is up for At the Edge of Heaven

I'm still reading ;) Thanks for the notice.

#3023
Caihn

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Ieldra2 wrote...

EffectedByTheMasses wrote...

Pacifien wrote...

Darrekx2 wrote...
in the intro of the game is also a different miranda than in the first hour of the game.
I mean first the "ill follow him" etc. and then when she finally has resurrected the real shepard its brr icequeen instead of giving him a chance to prove himself.

I think Miranda is the sort who needs to adjust when a situation has fallen out of her control. Shepard was not supposed wake up the way he did. She's probably just as upset with herself as she might be toward him that the end product doesn't meet her expectations.

After Freedom's Progress, things settle in and she realizes the Shepard she just worked with in the field is indeed the Shepard she wanted to resurrect.

Well, to me during the intro I sensed quite a bit of resentment and possibly even envy when Miranda says 'he's a bloody hero... they'll follow him' or whatever the line was. So therefore the ice queen afterwards would make sense. If I were in Miranda's situation, being engineered for perfection and the best at my job, when suddenly I'm told to serve under a person who has been as good as dead for the past two years without fully being able to prove his/her worth right away, I'd be pretty cold and harsh too. Also, initially after Shepard has proved his worth in the first few missions, I suppose Miranda begins to see why Shepard is the hero that he is, and begins to appreciate him more as a soldier as well as a person. 

She appreciates him for his competence first, appreciating him as a person comes later, only after her loyalty mission. Also, I don't think she's that cold and harsh to Shepard. She's keeping her distance from Shepard as a person, which is a trait of hers and understandable in the contect you mentioned.

I agree with Pacifien that things settle in after Freedom's Progress, but the change still comes too suddenly for my taste.


You don't have to talk to her immediately after freedom progress.I prefer to do some missions before.

#3024
Crunchyinmilk

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Darrekx2 wrote...
in the intro of the game is also a different miranda than in the first hour of the game.

I mean first the "ill follow him" etc. and then when she finally has resurrected the real shepard its brr icequeen instead of giving him a chance to prove himself.


jtav wrote...
I wonder why Miranda has such a drastic personality shift after Freedom's Progress. More precisely, I wonder why both she and Jacob were written so differently before and after, I like the "ice queen" and find her more interesting than the Miranda of the Normandy.

She is cold and chillingly ruthless in dealing with Wilson. She's matter of fact about the death of her staff, but there's a buried fury there too. She doesn't like Shepard, but she's going to make sure he succeeds.


The intro takes place prior to Shepard's death ("They're sending him to fight Geth!"). Cerberus are considering methods of involving the Council and the galaxy as a whole in dealing with the reaper threat, Shepard is seen as an 'open ear' and a potential bridge.

At this point Miranda has never met Shepard and she's a Cerberus loyalist. Shepard is a poster child for the Alliance and the Council.

The "Bloody Icon" line of her speech is a typically Australian 'tall poppy' reaction. There's resentment and scepticism, mixed in with grudging respect. She reluctantly agrees with TIM's assessment that Shepard is worth pursuing, but she isn't hiding her doubts or her belief that Shepard can't possibly live up to their legend/press.

Her reactions on the Lazarus station are completely in tune with this. She didn't fight through the station with Shepard like Jacob did, and she survived the whole affair on her own. She's seen very little first hand to dissuade her prior opinion of the Shepard legend.

I don't mean to suggest that the actual Freedom's Progress mission is well designed/written, it feels and looks a bit of a place holder to be honest. But its not so hard to extrapolate that its during this first mission together that Miranda begins to appreciate Shepard as an ally, finally getting first hand data.

Changing to a more civil tone when dealing with Shepard directly (on the Normandy) makes perfect sense given her new position and the demands of her Boss. She retains a lot of her cold nature throughout the game. She's detached on, and often seems to resent bothering with some recruitment missions. She enjoyed Thane's entrance scene, and was quite happy to help murder Sidonis.

People often point out the 'sudden about face' of her resigning from Cerberus at the end of the Suicide mission. This really comes down to a couple of things: Whether you felt the abhorrent nature of the Collector Base was effectively delivered by the level design and cinematics (people melting), and how you interpreted Miranda's understanding of Cerberus and The Illusive Man.

Consider Miranda's responses to Shepard's conversation options regarding past Cerberus experiments. They focus on the potentially positive outcomes while ignoring the methods. Is this Miranda being ruthless or is she quoting second hand reports, lacking the intimate knowledge of those particular Cerberus projects.

If its anything close to the latter, then seeing The Collector Base in terrible action and The Illusive Man's reaction to its destruction, its not so hard to believe Miranda's reaction to the decision to blow it up (also her cringe of worry when you talk to her after deciding to save it). Its a moment of personal realisation.

Miranda's story arc does follow the defrosting ice queen trope. I think they did a good job of stringing it out for a whole video game.

Miranda is ruthlessly practical, with a soft centre. I certainly hope she keeps struggling with both aspects, favouring the ruthlessly practical.

#3025
Spornicus

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"Oh, I am definitely interested."



I love how creepy it sounds when Shepard says it, and how he has that smile when he says it. Priceless.