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Miranda Lawson - our favorite woman in the galaxy (III)


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#3026
Caihn

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Crunchyinmilk wrote...

Darrekx2 wrote...
in the intro of the game is also a different miranda than in the first hour of the game.

I mean first the "ill follow him" etc. and then when she finally has resurrected the real shepard its brr icequeen instead of giving him a chance to prove himself.


jtav wrote...
I wonder why Miranda has such a drastic personality shift after Freedom's Progress. More precisely, I wonder why both she and Jacob were written so differently before and after, I like the "ice queen" and find her more interesting than the Miranda of the Normandy.

She is cold and chillingly ruthless in dealing with Wilson. She's matter of fact about the death of her staff, but there's a buried fury there too. She doesn't like Shepard, but she's going to make sure he succeeds.


The intro takes place prior to Shepard's death ("They're sending him to fight Geth!"). Cerberus are considering methods of involving the Council and the galaxy as a whole in dealing with the reaper threat, Shepard is seen as an 'open ear' and a potential bridge.

At this point Miranda has never met Shepard and she's a Cerberus loyalist. Shepard is a poster child for the Alliance and the Council.

The "Bloody Icon" line of her speech is a typically Australian 'tall poppy' reaction. There's resentment and scepticism, mixed in with grudging respect. She reluctantly agrees with TIM's assessment that Shepard is worth pursuing, but she isn't hiding her doubts or her belief that Shepard can't possibly live up to their legend/press.

Her reactions on the Lazarus station are completely in tune with this. She didn't fight through the station with Shepard like Jacob did, and she survived the whole affair on her own. She's seen very little first hand to dissuade her prior opinion of the Shepard legend.

I don't mean to suggest that the actual Freedom's Progress mission is well designed/written, it feels and looks a bit of a place holder to be honest. But its not so hard to extrapolate that its during this first mission together that Miranda begins to appreciate Shepard as an ally, finally getting first hand data.

Changing to a more civil tone when dealing with Shepard directly (on the Normandy) makes perfect sense given her new position and the demands of her Boss. She retains a lot of her cold nature throughout the game. She's detached on, and often seems to resent bothering with some recruitment missions. She enjoyed Thane's entrance scene, and was quite happy to help murder Sidonis.

People often point out the 'sudden about face' of her resigning from Cerberus at the end of the Suicide mission. This really comes down to a couple of things: Whether you felt the abhorrent nature of the Collector Base was effectively delivered by the level design and cinematics (people melting), and how you interpreted Miranda's understanding of Cerberus and The Illusive Man.

Consider Miranda's responses to Shepard's conversation options regarding past Cerberus experiments. They focus on the potentially positive outcomes while ignoring the methods. Is this Miranda being ruthless or is she quoting second hand reports, lacking the intimate knowledge of those particular Cerberus projects.

If its anything close to the latter, then seeing The Collector Base in terrible action and The Illusive Man's reaction to its destruction, its not so hard to believe Miranda's reaction to the decision to blow it up (also her cringe of worry when you talk to her after deciding to save it). Its a moment of personal realisation.

Miranda's story arc does follow the defrosting ice queen trope. I think they did a good job of stringing it out for a whole video game.

Miranda is ruthlessly practical, with a soft centre. I certainly hope she keeps struggling with both aspects, favouring the ruthlessly practical.


I agree.

#3027
Jebel Krong

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Crunchyinmilk wrote...

Darrekx2 wrote...
in the intro of the game is also a different miranda than in the first hour of the game.

I mean first the "ill follow him" etc. and then when she finally has resurrected the real shepard its brr icequeen instead of giving him a chance to prove himself.


jtav wrote...
I wonder why Miranda has such a drastic personality shift after Freedom's Progress. More precisely, I wonder why both she and Jacob were written so differently before and after, I like the "ice queen" and find her more interesting than the Miranda of the Normandy.

She is cold and chillingly ruthless in dealing with Wilson. She's matter of fact about the death of her staff, but there's a buried fury there too. She doesn't like Shepard, but she's going to make sure he succeeds.


The intro takes place prior to Shepard's death ("They're sending him to fight Geth!"). Cerberus are considering methods of involving the Council and the galaxy as a whole in dealing with the reaper threat, Shepard is seen as an 'open ear' and a potential bridge.

At this point Miranda has never met Shepard and she's a Cerberus loyalist. Shepard is a poster child for the Alliance and the Council.

The "Bloody Icon" line of her speech is a typically Australian 'tall poppy' reaction. There's resentment and scepticism, mixed in with grudging respect. She reluctantly agrees with TIM's assessment that Shepard is worth pursuing, but she isn't hiding her doubts or her belief that Shepard can't possibly live up to their legend/press.

Her reactions on the Lazarus station are completely in tune with this. She didn't fight through the station with Shepard like Jacob did, and she survived the whole affair on her own. She's seen very little first hand to dissuade her prior opinion of the Shepard legend.

I don't mean to suggest that the actual Freedom's Progress mission is well designed/written, it feels and looks a bit of a place holder to be honest. But its not so hard to extrapolate that its during this first mission together that Miranda begins to appreciate Shepard as an ally, finally getting first hand data.

Changing to a more civil tone when dealing with Shepard directly (on the Normandy) makes perfect sense given her new position and the demands of her Boss. She retains a lot of her cold nature throughout the game. She's detached on, and often seems to resent bothering with some recruitment missions. She enjoyed Thane's entrance scene, and was quite happy to help murder Sidonis.

People often point out the 'sudden about face' of her resigning from Cerberus at the end of the Suicide mission. This really comes down to a couple of things: Whether you felt the abhorrent nature of the Collector Base was effectively delivered by the level design and cinematics (people melting), and how you interpreted Miranda's understanding of Cerberus and The Illusive Man.

Consider Miranda's responses to Shepard's conversation options regarding past Cerberus experiments. They focus on the potentially positive outcomes while ignoring the methods. Is this Miranda being ruthless or is she quoting second hand reports, lacking the intimate knowledge of those particular Cerberus projects.

If its anything close to the latter, then seeing The Collector Base in terrible action and The Illusive Man's reaction to its destruction, its not so hard to believe Miranda's reaction to the decision to blow it up (also her cringe of worry when you talk to her after deciding to save it). Its a moment of personal realisation.

Miranda's story arc does follow the defrosting ice queen trope. I think they did a good job of stringing it out for a whole video game.

Miranda is ruthlessly practical, with a soft centre. I certainly hope she keeps struggling with both aspects, favouring the ruthlessly practical.


yeah but the aussies inherited the phrase from us (brits) ;) great post btw.

#3028
Ieldra

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Crunchyinmilk wrote...

Darrekx2 wrote...
in the intro of the game is also a different miranda than in the first hour of the game.

I mean first the "ill follow him" etc. and then when she finally has resurrected the real shepard its brr icequeen instead of giving him a chance to prove himself.


jtav wrote...
I wonder why Miranda has such a drastic personality shift after Freedom's Progress. More precisely, I wonder why both she and Jacob were written so differently before and after, I like the "ice queen" and find her more interesting than the Miranda of the Normandy.

She is cold and chillingly ruthless in dealing with Wilson. She's matter of fact about the death of her staff, but there's a buried fury there too. She doesn't like Shepard, but she's going to make sure he succeeds.


The intro takes place prior to Shepard's death ("They're sending him to fight Geth!"). Cerberus are considering methods of involving the Council and the galaxy as a whole in dealing with the reaper threat, Shepard is seen as an 'open ear' and a potential bridge.

At this point Miranda has never met Shepard and she's a Cerberus loyalist. Shepard is a poster child for the Alliance and the Council.

The "Bloody Icon" line of her speech is a typically Australian 'tall poppy' reaction. There's resentment and scepticism, mixed in with grudging respect. She reluctantly agrees with TIM's assessment that Shepard is worth pursuing, but she isn't hiding her doubts or her belief that Shepard can't possibly live up to their legend/press.

Her reactions on the Lazarus station are completely in tune with this. She didn't fight through the station with Shepard like Jacob did, and she survived the whole affair on her own. She's seen very little first hand to dissuade her prior opinion of the Shepard legend.

I don't mean to suggest that the actual Freedom's Progress mission is well designed/written, it feels and looks a bit of a place holder to be honest. But its not so hard to extrapolate that its during this first mission together that Miranda begins to appreciate Shepard as an ally, finally getting first hand data.

Changing to a more civil tone when dealing with Shepard directly (on the Normandy) makes perfect sense given her new position and the demands of her Boss. She retains a lot of her cold nature throughout the game. She's detached on, and often seems to resent bothering with some recruitment missions. She enjoyed Thane's entrance scene, and was quite happy to help murder Sidonis.

People often point out the 'sudden about face' of her resigning from Cerberus at the end of the Suicide mission. This really comes down to a couple of things: Whether you felt the abhorrent nature of the Collector Base was effectively delivered by the level design and cinematics (people melting), and how you interpreted Miranda's understanding of Cerberus and The Illusive Man.

Consider Miranda's responses to Shepard's conversation options regarding past Cerberus experiments. They focus on the potentially positive outcomes while ignoring the methods. Is this Miranda being ruthless or is she quoting second hand reports, lacking the intimate knowledge of those particular Cerberus projects.

If its anything close to the latter, then seeing The Collector Base in terrible action and The Illusive Man's reaction to its destruction, its not so hard to believe Miranda's reaction to the decision to blow it up (also her cringe of worry when you talk to her after deciding to save it). Its a moment of personal realisation.

Miranda's story arc does follow the defrosting ice queen trope. I think they did a good job of stringing it out for a whole video game.

Miranda is ruthlessly practical, with a soft centre. I certainly hope she keeps struggling with both aspects, favouring the ruthlessly practical.


Good post. Going through the game in my mind, I can actually agree with everything but her reaction to the Collector base (but you knew that, Yankee ;)). I also agree with the suggestion that Miranda's character development shows better if you string the conversations out and don't have them as soon as you can. I vaguely recall that you can have the second Normandy conversation (Conversation 2 in gutty47's Miranda dialogue tree) after her loyalty mission.

And BTW, since you didn't follow the endless debates about Miranda's about-face at the Collector base: I can't take this cheap horror show seriously in the first place. Apart from that, I can't see Miranda seeing keeping the base as a betrayal as she says after a fortunately avoidable dialogue choice, and I can't see her arguing for destroying something that might give you knowledge, since knowledge is the only way you can gain an edge against the Reapers. As I see it, it isn't that ruthless, she's done more ruthless things and argued for even more. But enough about that, else it spawns yet another five-page debate I have no time for...

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 juillet 2010 - 10:12 .


#3029
Ieldra

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Things are very quiet here. Maybe it's time for a repost of some Miranda fan art (this one was made by Breakdown Boy):

Posted Image
(%$-forum software delays edits by up to 3 minutes...)

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 juillet 2010 - 12:57 .


#3030
jtav

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Morning.

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't necessarily disagree - if you mean the elevator scene when speaking of "lead-up". That could do with better dialogue. It's only the engine room scene itself I think better without dialogue.

Apart from that, I agree with Nightwriter that it's important to remember the parts you like. Unfortunately, I don't think you can avoid "I'll be by when things are quiet" (what is it that bothers you about that one?), nor can you avoid getting "Oh, I'm definitely interested" at least once IIRC (I blame Meer for delivering this in a creepy way). That's the only one bugging me - I can see why you'd want the "promise" dialogue in its place.   


I do mean the elevator scene, and that's what I would replace with the "promise" dialog. The problem I have with the elevator dialogue if it's placement in the larger story. Both of them are likely to die within the next twenty-four hours, and the Collectors have shattered any illusion that this is in fact a suicide mission by taking the crew. The last time I spoke to Miranda, she was extremely pissed/unsettled at losing the crew. She's playful during the elevator scene, and not in a "I'm desperately trying to pretend things are normaland have sex with the man I love before I die"  way. It leaves me with a serious case of Mood Whiplash, both within the overall story and what had gone on before that in the romance.

I like that there's no dialogue during the sex proper. The sex doesn't quite work, but that has more to do with technological and censorship limitations, and I don't hold it against the romance. Meer's creepy delivery of  "Oh I'm definitely interested" is what I was referring to -- Miranda's lines are fine.

#3031
Ieldra

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Nightwriter wrote...
Miranda's eyes are so blue they make me look at Sheploo's eyes (I always use Sheploo for maleSheps).

And I realize Sheploo's eyes are blue, too. Miranda's eyes are explainable because she was genetically engineered, but you'd think Sheploo would have no business having anything other than brown eyes.

The reasoning for the disappearance of blue eyes is crap. Or rather, it is sound, but the timeframe involved makes it crap. As if blue eyes would vanish in seven generations from today.

Compressed timeframes.....one of my main issues with the worldbuilding in ME.

#3032
jtav

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Just heard about the Liara DLC. Not that you guys care, but I'm squeeing like an idiot. I wonder if she'll be a temp squaddie and if I'll finally be able to fulfill my dream of her and Miranda fighting side by side in game?

#3033
Ieldra

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jtav wrote...
Just heard about the Liara DLC. Not that you guys care, but I'm squeeing like an idiot. I wonder if she'll be a temp squaddie and if I'll finally be able to fulfill my dream of her and Miranda fighting side by side in game?

Looks interesting. I'm not as enthusiastic as I'd be for the DLC that lets me play as Miranda, but Shepard, Miranda and Liara in a squad would be nice as well. And revelations about the Shadow Broker - perhaps we can at last lay some persistent rumors to rest.

#3034
Caihn

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I just hope Miranda will have something to say during the mission. I don't want an another dlc with mute squadmates.

#3035
jtav

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I hope so, but I'm skeptical. The shipper in me is salivating at the mere possibility. It's Christmas in July. Romance playthrough is on hold indefinitely. I'm feeling inspired.

#3036
Caihn

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I also hope it will be the first post suicide mission DLC, I want the story to continue.

#3037
Ieldra

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Yannkee wrote...
I also hope it will be the first post suicide mission DLC, I want the story to continue.

Since when you do have that picture as your ID? Nice... and I also want the story to continue, but if MIranda has nothing to say to Liara and vice versa I'm going to be very disappointed..

#3038
Caihn

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Since Tuesday I think.

#3039
jtav

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Good night folks. I have a Liara/Miranda story to finish. Told you I felt inspired.

#3040
Caihn

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Good Night.

I return to ME2, I have to finish Horizon tonight.

#3041
Caihn

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I had time to finish Horizon and no post since I left ? <_< 

#3042
Strikor2115

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hey everyone, sorry I've been gone for such a long time. I got sucked into Dragon Age. I'll have some new Miranda art soon

#3043
Caihn

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Hi Strikor.

Can't wait your art.

#3044
kraidy1117

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
I also hope it will be the first post suicide mission DLC, I want the story to continue.

Since when you do have that picture as your ID? Nice... and I also want the story to continue, but if MIranda has nothing to say to Liara and vice versa I'm going to be very disappointed..


If Tali and Garrus have dialog and she does not, I will throw my 360 out the window.

#3045
Strikor2115

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Hey, I went back to my first Miranda piece and did alittle upgrade. Fixed her cheekbones and added other effects :)



Posted Image

#3046
XxKarivexX

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Hi Miranda thread, just dropping in to show some support :)

I don't know why but her character really grew on me. She actually made me do a MaleShep playthrough just to see what her romance was like :P




#3047
Evindale

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Everyone loves Miranda. She's everyone's favourite crew member. To all those who say no, you are just lying. :P

#3048
jtav

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Except those who aren't. Neither she nor her romance are to everyone's taste. There's nothing wrong with that. She's my favorite, and I still want to strangle her on a regular basis.

#3049
jtav

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Okay, explain to me how I can start off intending to finish one story, but end up writing nearly two thousand words of Miranda/Thane (or, rather two thousand words of Miranda and Mordin discussing the Lazarus Project and Miranda telling Niket about Oriana -- it's a big story)? I'll refrain from posting anything until I get a chapter done and edited. Don't want to jinx it. I will say Miranda-as-scientist and Cerberus apologist is fun to write. And yes, I know xenophilia is implausible. I just don't care.

#3050
Ieldra

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Strikor2115 wrote...

Hey, I went back to my first Miranda piece and did alittle upgrade. Fixed her cheekbones and added other effects :)

Posted Image

I like the new version. A noticeable improvement upon the first, particularly in her face. Are you going to do some more?

Good to see you back here, btw.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 juillet 2010 - 07:14 .