jtav wrote...
I'm doing my best not to think about the movie.
Explain this one to me: My favorite romances are Tali's and Thane's (I like cornball romanticism--sue me) And yet, I have almost nothing interesting to say about them. Miranda is the character that fascinates me. There's your schizophrenia, Ieldra.
jtav wrote...
I find evolution interesting as well. The problem is that she didn't evolve, in the sense that I have no clue how she came to mistrust TIM enough to resign. I can speculate, but the game doesn't bother to tell me. Leaving aside the merits of the base decision, is there any evidence prior to that moment to suggest she's the sort of person for whom using the research would feel like a betrayal?
Ieldra2 wrote...
That's the problem: the interesting things are almost always neither completely likeable nor completely unlikeable. Tali and Thane are "safe" to like (and the only LIs who are), which is why I don't like their romances. They don't challenge you and keep you safely within the boundaries of the conventional. While Thane's romance, for instance, poses some interesting problems because of his illness, we've seen it all before. Miranda pushes the boundaries. She's interesting rather than safely likeable, she doesn't need you, and she has that ruthless streak which may lessen depending on how you play your Shepard, but which will never completely disappear. Miranda stays a challenge for Shepard, among other things, because her ethics remain fluid and her emotions are always tempered by reason, and even her love may be challenged by necessity. You can never take her for granted. It takes a certain kind of confidence to remain with her
And, while this is a kind of romance I've always liked and waited for to appear in a game for some time, in RL someone like Miranda would be much too stressful a companion. After all, I'm no larger-than-life hero....
jtav wrote...
None of the romances are exactly original. Only 36 plots and all that. Execution is what matters. But what really interests me about Miranda is:
1. Her life before she ran away.
2. Her relationship with her sister.
3. The fact that she's gifted. I love intelligent and competent characters.
4. The tension between the fact that she knows she's gifted, but also has self-esteem problems that border on self-loathing.
5. Her reluctance to make emotional connections for fear that she'll muck it up (Oriana) or the person will die, leave or betray her.
6. She rose a man from the dead. (see point 3)
7. How will she define herself post ME2? Who is Miranda Lawson without Cerberus? Even if you kept the base, she's no longer a true believer.
jtav wrote...
None of the romances are exactly original. Only 36 plots and all that. Execution is what matters. But what really interests me about Miranda is:
1. Her life before she ran away.
2. Her relationship with her sister.
3. The fact that she's gifted. I love intelligent and competent characters.
4. The tension between the fact that she knows she's gifted, but also has self-esteem problems that border on self-loathing.
5. Her reluctance to make emotional connections for fear that she'll muck it up (Oriana) or the person will die, leave or betray her.
6. She rose a man from the dead. (see point 3)
7. How will she define herself post ME2? Who is Miranda Lawson without Cerberus? Even if you kept the base, she's no longer a true believer.
Throw_this_away wrote...
jtav wrote...
None of the romances are exactly original. Only 36 plots and all that. Execution is what matters. But what really interests me about Miranda is:
1. Her life before she ran away.
2. Her relationship with her sister.
3. The fact that she's gifted. I love intelligent and competent characters.
4. The tension between the fact that she knows she's gifted, but also has self-esteem problems that border on self-loathing.
5. Her reluctance to make emotional connections for fear that she'll muck it up (Oriana) or the person will die, leave or betray her.
6. She rose a man from the dead. (see point 3)
7. How will she define herself post ME2? Who is Miranda Lawson without Cerberus? Even if you kept the base, she's no longer a true believer.
Miranda aside... I think that this is what makes ME so impressive and unique. Gamers truly get attached to their characters in a very deep way.
I hope the squad gets to return in ME3 so that we can follow their growth further.
Yannkee wrote...
I think none of the LI characters will return as cameo.
Modifié par Jebel Krong, 26 juillet 2010 - 09:23 .
Nightwriter wrote...
Yannkee's avatar always vaguely disturbs me...
Miranda looks like a corpse. Corpse cuddling.
... Oh goodness, did I say that out loud?
Prudii Aden wrote...
As we've had a few new arrivals, and it's not been posted in a while, I think it is time for this -
I am somewhat optimistic here. There are precedents, I think. I absolutely refuse to be pessimistic unless there's a reason for it.jtav wrote...
Because I would have really liked the romance if it had focused on those things and the fanservice had been toned down. I think Bioware mostly sees Miranda as a fairly standard "hot spy" and the thing that interest the two of us aren't what interest them. I fear a romanced Miranda will "return to the fold" and become thoroughly conventional. Marriage, kids, no more ruthless streak or pushing the bounds of possibility.Ieldra2 wrote...
BTW:
Why is it sad that you agree with me?
Throw_this_away wrote...
I think it was purposeful that the writers did not provide hard evidence leading into the end-game... because that made her refusal of TIM's order all the more potent and unexpected. It was a "oh hell yeah!!!" moment in the game for me.
Ieldra2 wrote...
I am somewhat optimistic here. There are precedents, I think. I absolutely refuse to be pessimistic unless there's a reason for it.jtav wrote...
Because I would have really liked the romance if it had focused on those things and the fanservice had been toned down. I think Bioware mostly sees Miranda as a fairly standard "hot spy" and the thing that interest the two of us aren't what interest them. I fear a romanced Miranda will "return to the fold" and become thoroughly conventional. Marriage, kids, no more ruthless streak or pushing the bounds of possibility.Ieldra2 wrote...
BTW:
Why is it sad that you agree with me?
Well, it was a "oh hell no" moment for me. Not her resigning itself, but her recommendation about the base which leads to it, and which was in no way at all a "cool moment". It was done on purpose, but IMO they did it because they didn't want their poster girl recommending a ruthless decision, and character consistency be damned.Throw_this_away wrote...
jtav wrote...
I find evolution interesting as well. The problem is that she didn't evolve, in the sense that I have no clue how she came to mistrust TIM enough to resign. I can speculate, but the game doesn't bother to tell me. Leaving aside the merits of the base decision, is there any evidence prior to that moment to suggest she's the sort of person for whom using the research would feel like a betrayal?
I think that all of the characters evolved some degree through the game.
AS far as Miranda turning on TIM... I think it is obvious that TIM overstepped his bounds one too many times... and loyalties shifted to the very charasmatic Sheppard across the board within the squad. There was probably no "smoking gun" evidence that Miranda would make that shift... aside from realizing that she does indeed have a softer more human side.
I think it was purposeful that the writers did not provide hard evidence leading into the end-game... because that made her refusal of TIM's order all the more potent and unexpected. It was a "oh hell yeah!!!" moment in the game for me.
Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 juillet 2010 - 12:13 .
Revan061 wrote...
Throw_this_away wrote...
I think it was purposeful that the writers did not provide hard evidence leading into the end-game... because that made her refusal of TIM's order all the more potent and unexpected. It was a "oh hell yeah!!!" moment in the game for me.
This. I was so stoked to hear that bc I thought it was romance specific. I thought maybe my influence really changed something in the game. Then I hear that it happens regardless of loyalty, much less romance. For shame.
Ieldra2 wrote...
Well, it was a "oh hell no" moment for me. Not her resigning itself, but her recommendation about the base which leads to it, and which was in no way at all a "cool moment". It was done on purpose, but IMO they did it because they didn't want their poster girl recommending a ruthless decision, and character consistency be damned.Throw_this_away wrote...
jtav wrote...
I find evolution interesting as well. The problem is that she didn't evolve, in the sense that I have no clue how she came to mistrust TIM enough to resign. I can speculate, but the game doesn't bother to tell me. Leaving aside the merits of the base decision, is there any evidence prior to that moment to suggest she's the sort of person for whom using the research would feel like a betrayal?
I think that all of the characters evolved some degree through the game.
AS far as Miranda turning on TIM... I think it is obvious that TIM overstepped his bounds one too many times... and loyalties shifted to the very charasmatic Sheppard across the board within the squad. There was probably no "smoking gun" evidence that Miranda would make that shift... aside from realizing that she does indeed have a softer more human side.
I think it was purposeful that the writers did not provide hard evidence leading into the end-game... because that made her refusal of TIM's order all the more potent and unexpected. It was a "oh hell yeah!!!" moment in the game for me.
Yannkee wrote...
Revan061 wrote...
Throw_this_away wrote...
I think it was purposeful that the writers did not provide hard evidence leading into the end-game... because that made her refusal of TIM's order all the more potent and unexpected. It was a "oh hell yeah!!!" moment in the game for me.
This. I was so stoked to hear that bc I thought it was romance specific. I thought maybe my influence really changed something in the game. Then I hear that it happens regardless of loyalty, much less romance. For shame.
I think this decision is not predictable. It's impossible to me to predict how I would react facing such horror, and it's more difficult to predict how would react an another person. The writers have decided that Miranda would react that way and it bothers me not at all.About the influence, I know some don't want to believe Miranda could be influenced. But remember that even Miranda admits that Shepard has a strong influence on others. I agree that she wouldn't be as much influenced as the others but I think she could be a little.
Modifié par Revan061, 26 juillet 2010 - 12:44 .
jtav wrote...
What really gets me about the Collector Base decision is how inconsistent the morality is.
Keeping genophage cure research obtained via medical torture=Paragon
Keeping Collector base=Renegade
I agree destroying the base is the right thing to do, but that's because the alternative is giving it to TIM. The actual moral reasoning given is asinine.
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