15168 réponses à ce sujet

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

Ieldra2 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

jtav wrote...

I think their should be a few extra/different lines for people who romanced Liara, and I feel the same about Ash/Kaidan should they get a DLC. People who stayed faithful were treated pretty shabbily.

As for a penalty, I think choosing one and the other clamming up would be appropriate. Though I really hope Shep gets dumped by both if he tries to pull a "can't I have both of you?" again. I "cheated" with Miranda for just that purpose. I really want Shep taken down a peg or three.

 

Miranda biotic slapping the pure **** of him if he says  that would be hilarious and make my day.  I would do a Default   Shep playful just do see that happen because he looks like a jackass that would pull that ****. 

I do not agree. Miranda would dump him, yes, but not with any fire. She'd do so in her usual cool and composed way. I consider an explosion of passion out-of-character for her in this situation - she'd consider it beneath her dignity to to lose her composure. Maybe she'd even say nothing at, or somelike short and to the point like "consider our relationship terminated", and walk away - but anyone with the least knowledge of her would be able to see the contempt in her expression.

I have to agree with Ieldra - actually, I agree with her so much that I don't even think Miranda would say "consider our relationship terminated." The way how I personally imagine Miranda interacts with and conducts herself around people reminds me a lot of comic book Batman, with Miranda's relationship to Shepherd's team sorta analogous to Batman's relationship with the other members of the Justice League...i.e. distant, cold (at least initially), etc.

Somewhat OT, but combat-wise I'd imagine Miranda be somewhat like Batman too. She's not the best at anything, but she's good at everything (the best that any human can be given a skill). If she's given time to plan ahead I would expect her to be near unbeatable (just like Batman), regardless of the foe. I haven't read any of the ME novels that she's in, so I don't actually know.

[jtav]

I more of a Marvel girl myself, and there's a lot of Black Widow and the 90s animated version of Black Cat in my view of her.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I could see her "losing it" a bit, though not necessarily to the degree of physical violence. Miranda tends to burn cold with her anger, but she does lash out on occasion. Usually when there's an element of grief mixed in with her anger. if Shepard made her believe that he'd loved her and then treated her in that manner, it will take her a few moments to regain her composure. Then we'd get the cold set down.

I can see that, too. I don't know In which way we'll get to see how much she's hurt, but I'd prefer she'd not "lose it". A cutting remark like "Clearly, you were a mistake", delivered coolly, seems appropriate.

I prefer it when her reserve falters because she's happy.

Definitely

I'm just not feeling too charitably disposed towards Shepard atm.

LOL. Are you ever? I admit I must work with my imagination quite a bit to get a Shepard I can identify with, but it is possible.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I more of a Marvel girl myself, and there's a lot of Black Widow and the 90s animated version of Black Cat in my view of her.

Sounds good, but I'm not too familiar with these. I guess there isn't anything available online except for wiki entries?

@V0luS_R0cKs7aR:
I still haven't finished Retribution, but it is better written than Ascension. Not that that's any particular achievement.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 06 août 2010 - 10:02 .

[Elyvern]

Hello folks, been lurking around here for a while, reading through the daunting number of pages of this thread and the earlier ones. It's been a delight to find a character as marvelous as Miranda in the game. I came into the franchise late, and basically picked up both ME1 and 2 together. Once I knew a character like hers existed, I played the first game without any romance (personally, it wasn’t hard at all) just for the chance to romance Miranda in the second. I wasn’t disappointed, and since then, she’s the only LI for my male Shepard regardless of the number of playthroughs.



I recognize that part of the reason is she belongs to a type that I find irresistible. In fact, that was how a friend of mine sold me on the game. The other part is I’m an unabashed trans-humanist. In my biased opinion, it's regretful that the ethics and implications/complications of rebuilding Shepard never surfaced past certain alignment choices and the cyborg-look. And sadly, the conclusions and facts are never stated outright and what should be established can only be inferred.



A lot of the points and conflicts I’m going to list occur to me during my playthroughs because while the moral decisions my Shepards make are inevitably my own, I always play with the conscious awareness of his larger than life persona and his on-going struggle to reconcile his status as a savior of the galaxy with his sense of self. Still, I thought they were interesting enough to share with you in here.



I firmly believe that Shepard couldn’t have walked away from that operating table retaining 100% of his mind for starters. At the very least, he would probably lose a certain amount of memories, because brain reconstruction cannot replicate every neuron no matter how much suspension of disbelief you choose to apply to the whole process. Which makes me wonder how Miranda would feel if she finds out he has memory lapses, perhaps of old friends and loved ones which would be credibly the only things Shepard has from his past life.



This also goes back to the topic some in here have raised before – you can’t spend two years of your life elbow-deep in the guts of someone and not be affected by it. Which then begs the question of how much guilt (or pride) on her part and how much gratitude on his part colour their relationship. Invariably, I feel my Shepard must, at some point in time, confront her with the question “What am I to you?” I know it sounds macabre, almost Frankenstein-ien, but it’s a notion I can’t shake from my mind. And we aren’t even talking about the possibility of reaper technology or what other lengths she may have gone through to get Shepard on his feet. For one, I believe that Miranda didn’t bring Shepard back “as he is.” By virtue, cybernetics would already mean superior replacements for organic parts. And at the very least, to me anyway, she must’ve augmented Shepard to be able to fire the Widow rifle without breaking his bones. It just makes me wonder what would be going through her mind when she falls for the super-human, the bloody perfect specimen she helps create and bring back to life.



Edit: I just realise how insanely long this post is going to end up so I shall be stopping here to see what responses it’ll elicit.

[jtav]

Ieldra, I don't know how it is in Germany, but the entirety of Spider-man: the Animated Series can be accessed on Youtube here in the US. It's censored to a ridiculous degree. I wouldn't know about the comics.



And I do occasionally conjure up a likable Shepard, but it's very difficult. I wish we could play him/her as occasionally experiencing some fear or grief. I would have loved to asked Miranda to also promise me not to die. I wanted to RP him as terrified of losing her, and I couldn't.

[nitefyre410]

jtav wrote...

I more of a Marvel girl myself, and there's a lot of Black Widow and the 90s animated version of Black Cat in my view of her.

 

I know I  got the an Emma  Frost vibe from... Cold exterior that was only defense of the life she had to lead. underneath she does care a lot about those around her. There is  Conversation between her and Logan at the End of Manifest  Destiny that is about forgiving oneself.. I'm trying to adapt that to Mass Effect , the only issue i am running to is the person that is going to after Mira after storms out. I was trying to avoid but  damn it  all to hell.  The whole scene works perfectly with.. 

Yes I'm huge Marvel Fan - X-men mostly, but Marvel will have always have me favorite heroes. So want to see   Shephard in a Capitan America costume Shield bashing the  crap out a collector. 

[jtav]

Elyvern, I too would like to see the "what am II to you?" question answered in further detail .For now, I've settled on them having a quasi mother-son/daughter relationship. Shepard is her legacy, the closest thing to a child of her own that she will ever have. She's incredibly proud of her accomplishment. She doesn't always truly understand Shepard, and their morals are often at odds. Gradually, though, they talk and the barriers come down. In the aftermath of her loyalty mission, when Shepard helped her and even encouraged her to introduce herself to Oriana, she realizes that she can love (non-romantically) and trust this person. She's begun building a real family, and Shepard is part of that family

[jtav]

I have a single Shep, but that's mostly in case Bioware goes the catfight route. Then my Shep that romanced both ladies disappears into the ether, and I go back to the world of fanfic. Pleasant place.

[IndigoWolfe]

Just in case it hasn't already been posted.

[Revan061]

To clarify: it doesn't have to be LI specific. I'm not exactly sure what I was thinking when I wrote that but I meant character specific. I guess that's what no sleep does to you lol. Anyway, jtav, looking forward to more stories!!

[jtav]

Don't mind me in any case, Revan. I'm an inveterate grouch addicted to non-canon pairings. Do I at least get points for saying I;d rather have her with someone else rather than the other way around.\\?

[kraidy1117]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Just in case it hasn't already been posted.

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!

[kraidy1117]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
I more of a Marvel girl myself, and there's a lot of Black Widow and the 90s animated version of Black Cat in my view of her.

Sounds good, but I'm not too familiar with these. I guess there isn't anything available online except for wiki entries?

@V0luS_R0cKs7aR:
I still haven't finished Retribution, but it is better written than Ascension. Not that that's any particular achievement.

I lol'd.

[nitefyre410]

kraidy1117 wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Just in case it hasn't already been posted.

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Okay the look on there faces makes this entire piece , she is looking heartbroken and he is look outright resolved to protect...  a beautiful composition. 

it less wordiness 

it F-ing  ROCKS!! 

[kraidy1117]

nitefyre410 wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Just in case it hasn't already been posted.

OMFG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! That's amazing!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

Okay the look on there faces makes this entire piece , she is looking heartbroken and he is look outright resolved to protect...  a beautiful composition. 

it less wordiness 

it F-ing  ROCKS!! 

I love thel ighting too. Who ever drew this did a fantastic job. One of my fav Miri and Shep art.

[Revan061]

jtav wrote...

Don't mind me in any case, Revan. I'm an inveterate grouch addicted to non-canon pairings. Do I at least get points for saying I;d rather have her with someone else rather than the other way around.\\\\?

Yeah, you do get points for that. If you factor in the believability/entertainment quotient of the non canon pairings you write, you just manage to break even lol.

[Caihn]

IndigoWolfe wrote...

Just in case it hasn't already been posted.

(good, it have already been posted)
It's awesome !
I wish there would be more Miranda art with such quality.
And the scene is just perfect. 

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...
Hello folks, been lurking around here for a while, reading through the daunting number of pages of this thread and the earlier ones. It's been a delight to find a character as marvelous as Miranda in the game. I came into the franchise late, and basically picked up both ME1 and 2 together. Once I knew a character like hers existed, I played the first game without any romance (personally, it wasn’t hard at all) just for the chance to romance Miranda in the second. I wasn’t disappointed, and since then, she’s the only LI for my male Shepard regardless of the number of playthroughs.

Hi Elyvern, and welcome. Yet another one who seems unable to stay from Miranda.

I recognize that part of the reason is she belongs to a type that I find irresistible. In fact, that was how a friend of mine sold me on the game. The other part is I’m an unabashed trans-humanist. In my biased opinion, it's regretful that the ethics and implications/complications of rebuilding Shepard never surfaced past certain alignment choices and the cyborg-look. And sadly, the conclusions and facts are never stated outright and what should be established can only be inferred.

I think the developers didn't want to open that can of worms to yet another fundamentalist rant after the Fox News debacle. I pretty much agree with you: it was a lost opportunity, there could be some meaningful debate about all that. I guess we can hope for at least a little more in ME3, since there's no sequel to be damaged any more, but mostly it's left to fan fiction.

I firmly believe that Shepard couldn’t have walked away from that operating table retaining 100% of his mind for starters. At the very least, he would probably lose a certain amount of memories, because brain reconstruction cannot replicate every neuron no matter how much suspension of disbelief you choose to apply to the whole process. Which makes me wonder how Miranda would feel if she finds out he has memory lapses, perhaps of old friends and loved ones which would be credibly the only things Shepard has from his past life.

Very much this. It's probably possible to preserve the brain by deep-freezing, but only under very controlled conditions I wouldn't expect to be present around a starship explosion. But I can think of several retcons for this: one possibility is that Shepard had an implant that stored his memory before, unknowingly. That's what I would've said, and it also opens plot options....

This also goes back to the topic some in here have raised before – you can’t spend two years of your life elbow-deep in the guts of someone and not be affected by it. Which then begs the question of how much guilt (or pride) on her part and how much gratitude on his part colour their relationship. Invariably, I feel my Shepard must, at some point in time, confront her with the question “What am I to you?” I know it sounds macabre, almost Frankenstein-ien, but it’s a notion I can’t shake from my mind. And we aren’t even talking about the possibility of reaper technology or what other lengths she may have gone through to get Shepard on his feet. For one, I believe that Miranda didn’t bring Shepard back “as he is.” By virtue, cybernetics would already mean superior replacements for organic parts. And at the very least, to me anyway, she must’ve augmented Shepard to be able to fire the Widow rifle without breaking his bones. It just makes me wonder what would be going through her mind when she falls for the super-human, the bloody perfect specimen she helps create and bring back to life.

I also believe she couldn't have brought him back exactly as he is (hey, I miss my old scars from ME1). I don't think it must have a big influence on the relationship, because almost all of the time, he wasn't alive, but I'd expect him to ask questions, yes.  The question of whether Reaper technology was used in the reconstruction has been posted before. There's no evidence for it.

Edit: I just realise how insanely long this post is going to end up so I shall be stopping here to see what responses it’ll elicit.

I do not mind long posts at all if they're interesting. Thank you for posting something worth thinking about!

[jtav]

That artwork is stunning by the way.

[Elyvern]

Hello Ieldra, jtav and all,

Thank you for the warm reception and responses to my first post!

@Jtav and nitefyre – I’m a big fan of Emma Frost for almost twenty years. In fact, she was the example my friend brought up when trying to sell the character of Miranda to me. Another character that similarly resonates for me in the marvelverse is Agent Abigail Brand of S.W.O.R.D -- another gorgeous, insanely competent but abrasive woman who tends to believe ends justify means. 

@jtav – I’ve been telling myself I need to do a complete playthrough using a femshep one of these days, which would definitely give me a different perspective about their relationship, but the inability to romance Miranda always ends up stopping me.

@Ieldra – thank you for your thoughtful responses to my post.  Good to find a like-minded fan in here! This also gives me courage to post a couple more ruminations on my part.

The other thing that niggles me is just how much of a marvel would a medical resurrection like Shepard’s be in the ME universe, and just how much involvement Miranda has in the process.

From the various reactions we get, I have the feeling that even if such a thing is possible, it remains a feat that elicits incredulity and amazement. This is qualified further by Jacob mentioning how Shepard was basically meat and tubes to start with. I would also like to think that Miranda was more than just a project manager. The part where she chides Wilson for his wrong estimate suggests that not only does she possess the authority but she also has the knowledge and expertise to say so. And it saddens me that the work she should rightfully be proud of will probably be buried in classified files and never publicly acknowledged. It’s always been very important for me that of all the LIs (male and female) in both games, she alone has that bigger than life personality, that genius acumen and presence to stand beside Shepard. My biggest consternation is that when the reaper threat is resolved, the universe will mostly acknowledge Shepard’s accomplishments and Miranda will simply become “the woman behind the man”.

I have very little hope that it doesn’t go that way, because the hero of the game is Shepard after all. Nonetheless, I can’t help indulging in wishful thinking – perhaps Miranda could pick up the reins of running Cerberus, restructuring the organization as a legitimate force for humanity without shadings of specism and an intelligence gathering and reinforcement agency for Shepard’s future work. She’d still be the woman behind the man but at least she’ll be a power to be reckoned with even in the background.

And finally, a personal “Squee!” moment – I can’t imagine the kind of children they’d have – the genetic combination of two legendary and “perfect” human beings is just too delicious to pass by. Although the pressure of their kids living up to parental (especially Miranda’s) and social expectations would probably be unbearable.

And that's indeed an amazing piece of fan-art.

Modifié par Elyvern, 07 août 2010 - 02:52 .

[jtav]

Elyvern, I agree with 99% of what you said. Miranda's achievement is remarkable. She's the woman who literally conquered death. If the Lazarus Project can ever be repeated in any form, then she just changed organic life forever. Even if it wasn't, the philosophical and religious implications are huge. She is in every sense Shepard's equal. She'll never be a sidekick, but a partner. And I sincerely hope that she does end up running Cerberus. I don't want her to be the woman behind the man. She's far too interesting as a protagonist in her own right.



And you are far from the first person who can only romance Miranda. Hers is the only MaleShep ME2 MaleShep romance that I've been able to complete, and I'm someone infamous for my mixed feelings toward her romance and for pairing her with Thane and Liara. And yet, except for once, when the option presents itself in game to romance her, I always take it.

[TMA LIVE]

jtav wrote...

Elyvern, I agree with 99% of what you said. Miranda's achievement is remarkable. She's the woman who literally conquered death. If the Lazarus Project can ever be repeated in any form, then she just changed organic life forever. Even if it wasn't, the philosophical and religious implications are huge. She is in every sense Shepard's equal. She'll never be a sidekick, but a partner. And I sincerely hope that she does end up running Cerberus. I don't want her to be the woman behind the man. She's far too interesting as a protagonist in her own right.

And you are far from the first person who can only romance Miranda. Hers is the only MaleShep ME2 MaleShep romance that I've been able to complete, and I'm someone infamous for my mixed feelings toward her romance and for pairing her with Thane and Liara. And yet, except for once, when the option presents itself in game to romance her, I always take it.

I'm still wondering why she isn't studying him more, to find out the side effects of him being alive, and how long he can continue living.