15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Caihn]

I think it's not the place to post this degrading picture.

I would prefer that nobody quote the picture anymore.

[fongiel24]

New topic that I've been wondering about...



I've seen a lot of discussion about what Miranda may be like when she's on other missions other than Lazarus/ME2 but I was just thinking... what do you guys think a "happy" Miranda is like? Given her upbringing and background, I'm not even sure she's ever in such a state of mind, but what would she look like in a relaxed state? Could she act genuinely flirty just for fun rather than as a means to an end?

[Prudii Aden]

I'm sure she could, post ME 2, but prior to meeting Shepard, it would take someone special for it to happen. Personally, I reckon that she'd enjoy time either alone or genuine quiet couple time, where they don't have to be The Saviours of The Galaxy ™ and can indulge themselves in whatever aspects of normal life they can get their hands on. Snuggling on the sofa and watching a movie, that sort of thing. My guess would be that she'd like being 'normal', but only in small doses. She does get a kick out of doing the difficult or seemingly impossible, after all!

[Ieldra]

@snfonseka:

I would prefer if you - and everyone - didn't post oder quote that picture or other similar ones anymore.

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...
I've seen a lot of discussion about what Miranda may be like when she's on other missions other than Lazarus/ME2 but I was just thinking... what do you guys think a "happy" Miranda is like? Given her upbringing and background, I'm not even sure she's ever in such a state of mind, but what would she look like in a relaxed state? Could she act genuinely flirty just for fun rather than as a means to an end?

Flirty may be within her range of behavior, but I think she enjoys it most if things are quiet, once she manages to get out of her workaholic mindset. Detached from the conversaition in the game, and with something nice to eat, drink and read added, maybe a scene like this:

Modifié par Ieldra2, 11 août 2010 - 11:21 .

[jtav]

I'm with Ieldra. She's happiest when she can get a quiet moment to decompress. And I don't think happiness is a usual thing for her and that her default state is low-grade misery. I've read stories where she's essentially a sociopath, but I think developing depression or anxiety disorders is more likely.



And, JK, I wasn't suggesting that that the game should have included the chip. Merely that the fanfic potential of the idea is good and shouldn't be wasted on turning Miranda into an unusually stupid Bond villain.

[nitefyre410]

jtav wrote...

I'm with Ieldra. She's happiest when she can get a quiet moment to decompress. And I don't think happiness is a usual thing for her and that her default state is low-grade misery. I've read stories where she's essentially a sociopath, but I think developing depression or anxiety disorders is more likely.

And, JK, I wasn't suggesting that that the game should have included the chip. Merely that the fanfic potential of the idea is good and shouldn't be wasted on turning Miranda into an unusually stupid Bond villain.

 

Okay that is pushing it and very far etched, did the author  at least try to give a reason for her having Sociopathic tendencies or was it just a bash fic?

The Depression and anxiety disorders  are more likely considering she keeps a lot of stuff bottled up     

Modifié par nitefyre410, 11 août 2010 - 12:46 .

[snfonseka]

fongiel24 wrote...

New topic that I've been wondering about...

I've seen a lot of discussion about what Miranda may be like when she's on other missions other than Lazarus/ME2 but I was just thinking... what do you guys think a "happy" Miranda is like? Given her upbringing and background, I'm not even sure she's ever in such a state of mind, but what would she look like in a relaxed state? Could she act genuinely flirty just for fun rather than as a means to an end?

Err.... well ... after meeting Shepard, yea... but before........ may be the time when Jacob and she were close to each other....

[jtav]

It was a bashing fic, with a side of Marty Stu Shep and Perfect Tali. I don't dispute that implanting the chip would push Miranda straight into villain territory or that she's capable of it. The tension between her admirable and less admirable qualities and the fact that she begins the game on a tipping point between hero and monster is something I love. But...She wouldn't be so stupid as to let him know he's being controlled, order him to gun down a friend for no real reason, or use a method that he can throw off as easily as he does. Me being me, I'm now mulling over how the idea could be done well. Any interest? with the caveat that Miranda would be a villain protagonist/tragic hero?

[nitefyre410]

jtav wrote...

It was a bashing fic, with a side of Marty Stu Shep and Perfect Tali. I don't dispute that implanting the chip would push Miranda straight into villain territory or that she's capable of it. The tension between her admirable and less admirable qualities and the fact that she begins the game on a tipping point between hero and monster is something I love. But...She wouldn't be so stupid as to let him know he's being controlled, order him to gun down a friend for no real reason, or use a method that he can throw off as easily as he does. Me being me, I'm now mulling over how the idea could be done well. Any interest? with the caveat that Miranda would be a villain protagonist/tragic hero?

 


you have to center around Oriana and it should before the game, when she was first working with  Cerberus.   Maybe  her first Deep cover operation. 

[jtav]

Er, I meant the idea that she got her way about the chip. And what does it say about me that I object to her being a moron more than her being evil?

[nitefyre410]

jtav wrote...

Er, I meant the idea that she got her way about the chip. And what does it say about me that I object to her being a moron more than her being evil?

 


Well  there is really  no way you  can do a Control Chip  and not fall into the Cheesy  villain area... unless you went AU for the start of the game, Shephard woke up as scheduled but he was  in feral state. 

[Caihn]

I added 4 new albums in my  Miranda screenshots collection :

- Thane recruitment mission
- Grunt loyalty mission
- Mordin loyalty mission
- Jacob loyalty mission

Some previews :

[V0luS_R0cKs7aR]

Honestly, a control chip is not that big a deal. Fail safes are standard protocol in how many different institutions? It's logical that Miranda would suggest/consider a control chip - Shepherd does have a habit of erasing Cerberus bases, and they weren't certain that the Lazarus project itself would be a success. It didn't seem like me that Miranda wanted to "control" Shepherd; rather, it seems she suggested the chip as a fail safe in case the defecation hit the fan.

Reconstructing people physically should be a joke with the tech available in the Mass Effect universe. Reconstructing people mentally is a completely different story.

In fact, it can be argued that Cerberus hasn't implemented *enough* fail safes in their "experiments."

Modifié par V0luS_R0cKs7aR, 11 août 2010 - 03:41 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Er, I meant the idea that she got her way about the chip. And what does it say about me that I object to her being a moron more than her being evil?

Perhaps it says you can admire someone who is occasionally evil, but not one who's a moron? I would also object more to her being a moron, but that doesn't come unexpectedly because I have a strong streak of consequentalism in my own morality. Evil is sometimes necessary evil.

Would I like a well-written story about Miranda using a control chip? Assuming it can be done? No idea. I'll know when I read one, I guess. Almost certainly I'd like it a lot better than the cheap romances that dominate the fanfic scene.

[nitefyre410]

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

Honestly, a control chip is not that big a deal. Fail safes are standard protocol in how many different institutions? It's logical that Miranda would suggest/consider a control chip - Shepherd does have a habit of erasing Cerberus bases, and they weren't certain that the Lazarus project itself would be a success. It didn't seem like me that Miranda wanted to "control" Shepherd; rather, it seems she suggested the chip as a fail safe in case the defecation hit the fan.

Reconstructing people physically should be a joke with the tech available in the Mass Effect universe. Reconstructing people mentally is a completely different story.

In fact, it can be argued that Cerberus hasn't implemented *enough* fail safes in their "experiments."

 


Exactly rebuilding him physically is the easy part, rebuilding him  mentally...um not so much 

[nitefyre410]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Er, I meant the idea that she got her way about the chip. And what does it say about me that I object to her being a moron more than her being evil?

Perhaps it says you can admire someone who is occasionally evil, but not one who's a moron? I would also object more to her being a moron, but that doesn't come unexpectedly because I have a strong streak of consequentalism in my own morality. Evil is sometimes necessary evil.

Would I like a well-written story about Miranda using a control chip? Assuming it can be done? No idea. I'll know when I read one, I guess. Almost certainly I'd like it a lot better than the cheap romances that dominate the fanfic scene.

 


and the horrible attempts at action 

[Ieldra]

Yannkee wrote...

This is a good one  - very nice lighting! Where is it from?

[Caihn]

It's just after Thane shoot Nassana Dantius, she's saying "Not bad".

[Ieldra]

nitefyre410 wrote...

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

Honestly, a control chip is not that big a deal. Fail safes are standard protocol in how many different institutions? It's logical that Miranda would suggest/consider a control chip - Shepherd does have a habit of erasing Cerberus bases, and they weren't certain that the Lazarus project itself would be a success. It didn't seem like me that Miranda wanted to "control" Shepherd; rather, it seems she suggested the chip as a fail safe in case the defecation hit the fan.

Reconstructing people physically should be a joke with the tech available in the Mass Effect universe. Reconstructing people mentally is a completely different story.

In fact, it can be argued that Cerberus hasn't implemented *enough* fail safes in their "experiments."

 


Exactly rebuilding him physically is the easy part, rebuilding him  mentally...um not so much 

Except that the mind essentially is part of the brain. If you can make a perfect reconstruction of his body, including all neural connections in the brain, then you'll have the same person. If not, then you won't have, and no matter of adding stuff by other methods will change that, in an absolute sense. In the latter case, it only remains to be seen if the differences are inconsequential enough that everyone would consider the reconstructed person the same as the old.

[jtav]

The entire resurrection plot gives me both the creeps and a headache. I have no idea if a control chip could be done well, or if I could do it well. I just get so sick of stories where Miranda is either a card-carrying villain or becomes completely focused in romance and needs Shepard to rescue her.

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

The entire resurrection plot gives me both the creeps and a headache. I have no idea if a control chip could be done well, or if I could do it well. I just get so sick of stories where Miranda is either a card-carrying villain or becomes completely focused in romance and needs Shepard to rescue her.

I don't have a problem with Miranda engaging in "evil" behaviour provided it serves a purpose. She's not a villain, but she's no saint either - the ends justifies the means in her case. I think she'd be willing to do some pretty nasty stuff to complete a mission but not without considering alternatives and feeling pretty torn up about it afterwards (although she'd never show it to others).

I find romance to be really difficult to write. Doubly so in Miranda's case because damsel-in-distress is problematic when you're talking about a character as resourceful and capable as Miranda is. If she needs rescuing, it's more from her own self-doubts than any physical danger.

The chip thing is really interesting. I don't think implanting a chip in Shepard would necessarily make Miranda evil, just cautious. As Volus points out, Cerberus is resurrecting a man (or woman) who in his previous life would normally be hunting them. I think it might have been interesting if Miranda HAD inserted a failsafe chip in Shepard's brain without his knowledge but deactivated it late in the game (possibly in the Collector base) as a part of her shifting loyalties from Cerberus. If they had shared a romance, I see a lot of potential in the fallout of such a revelation, Miranda having to explain to the man she loves why she did it.

[jtav]

Oh, yes. All of her morally ambiguous acts would be to a purpose and she'd only undertake them if she felt they were the most effective means of going forward. The difference for me is tha the end doesn't justify the means. There are certain acts that are wrong always and everywhere and remain so regardless of circumstance. I judge Miranda fairly harshly because of that.



Romance? No, a rescue romance isn't going to work. There are plenty of other things you can use for conflict: conflicting loyalties between Cerberus/her partner, her self-esteem issues and difficulty being emotionally intimate, etc.

[nitefyre410]

Ieldra2 wrote...

nitefyre410 wrote...

V0luS_R0cKs7aR wrote...

Honestly, a control chip is not that big a deal. Fail safes are standard protocol in how many different institutions? It's logical that Miranda would suggest/consider a control chip - Shepherd does have a habit of erasing Cerberus bases, and they weren't certain that the Lazarus project itself would be a success. It didn't seem like me that Miranda wanted to "control" Shepherd; rather, it seems she suggested the chip as a fail safe in case the defecation hit the fan.

Reconstructing people physically should be a joke with the tech available in the Mass Effect universe. Reconstructing people mentally is a completely different story.

In fact, it can be argued that Cerberus hasn't implemented *enough* fail safes in their "experiments."

 


Exactly rebuilding him physically is the easy part, rebuilding him  mentally...um not so much 

Except that the mind essentially is part of the brain. If you can make a perfect reconstruction of his body, including all neural connections in the brain, then you'll have the same person. If not, then you won't have, and no matter of adding stuff by other methods will change that, in an absolute sense. In the latter case, it only remains to be seen if the differences are inconsequential enough that everyone would consider the reconstructed person the same as the old.

 

There  has got to be some kinda of psychological damage though, emotional, etc  from the  process right? 

[Elyvern]

jtav wrote...

It was a bashing fic, with a side of Marty Stu Shep and Perfect Tali. I don't dispute that implanting the chip would push Miranda straight into villain territory or that she's capable of it. The tension between her admirable and less admirable qualities and the fact that she begins the game on a tipping point between hero and monster is something I love. But...She wouldn't be so stupid as to let him know he's being controlled, order him to gun down a friend for no real reason, or use a method that he can throw off as easily as he does. Me being me, I'm now mulling over how the idea could be done well. Any interest? with the caveat that Miranda would be a villain protagonist/tragic hero?

Actually, I believe I just read a fic like that. The author basically expressed that he/she never really liked Miranda but it's more in the case of BW presenting a potentially interesting character and not pursuing that to the logical conclusion.
 
http://www.fanfictio.../1/Interstitium

Storywise, it's heading the way of Shepard/Tali, and presents a Miri that's borderline villian, but not in a bashing way I feel.