15168 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

That reminds me. Speaking of things I don't want to see, I get the sense that some people, including some people who like her, want her "put in her place." They want her to be broken and stop challenging Shepard and become almost subservient to him/her. I don't want that.

[Nightwriter]

She mentions she knows how to read people when you're talking to her about the Illusive Man. I'd like to see that expanded on. I'd like to see her read Shepard.

[jtav]

Especially considering she seems to suck at reading people. Exhibit A: Wilson. Exhibit B: TIM. I don't count Niket because it might have been different if they weren't so close, but she still didn't pic up on obvious clues.

[kraidy1117]

jtav wrote...

Especially considering she seems to suck at reading people. Exhibit A: Wilson. Exhibit B: TIM. I don't count Niket because it might have been different if they weren't so close, but she still didn't pic up on obvious clues.

Even then Niket did't betrayal her fully. He still betrayed her, but he could have mafde it worse.

[Arhka]

While you guys are talking about Niket, random thought just popped up. If Oriana is Miranda's "twin", is she also capable of biotics?

[jtav]

Biotics aren't genetic, so it depends on if she was implanted with the nodules.

[LuxDragon]

Even if she had the 'potential' to be biotic, she needs the amps and the training. Says so in the codex.

[Arhka]

LuxDragon wrote...

Even if she had the 'potential' to be biotic, she needs the amps and the training. Says so in the codex.

That is true. However, she was on Illium, technological hub for the "most biotic" race in the galaxy. If she knew she had biotics, it wouldn't be too farfetched that she may have picked some stuff up from there.

jtav wrote...

That reminds me. Speaking of things I don't want to see, I get the sense that some people, including some people who like her, want her "put in her place." They want her to be broken and stop challenging Shepard and become almost subservient to him/her. I don't want that.

I like that about her. She does make rather tact suggestions regarding Mordin and then the decision on what to do with the IFF.

Modifié par Arhka, 13 août 2010 - 03:13 .

[Nightwriter]

jtav wrote...

Especially considering she seems to suck at reading people. Exhibit A: Wilson. Exhibit B: TIM. I don't count Niket because it might have been different if they weren't so close, but she still didn't pic up on obvious clues.

Hmm. I don't think Wilson was a traitor from the beginning; I think his loyalty deteriorated over time. In any case, Miranda found out in the end and shot him.

As for TIM, I can understand hysterical blindness. Cerberus - and TIM - were who she ran to in order to escape her father. She wants them to be good.

[Revan061]

andysilv87 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Yes, that ratio is fine, though I'd still really appreciate a friendship path and the chance to help her deal with her low self-esteem as a FemShep.

That would be a nice addition but I don't realistically see BioWare implementing a friendship path. ME3 will be all about finishing up story arcs and with so many characters to take care of I think the romance will be the main focus for any romanceable characters. =/

This, but I've been screaming about bromance options from a mountain top for the last 4 months. It just makes so much sense in a game where a lot of times the story is driven by the characters and their relationships. I'm not sure what a bromace between girls would be called, but I support that too. Also sorry for not keeping up with the thread; have been on a bfbc2 kick. it seems that there aren't enough hours in the day between that, ME, and Forza 3. And on top of that, Halo: Reach is coming out soon. Looks like I'll have to axe a couple hours of sleep from my schedule.

[Revan061]

Arhka wrote...

LuxDragon wrote...

Even if she had the 'potential' to be biotic, she needs the amps and the training. Says so in the codex.

That is true. However, she was on Illium, technological hub for the "most biotic" race in the galaxy. If she knew she had biotics, it wouldn't be too farfetched that she may have picked some stuff up from there.

jtav wrote...

That reminds me. Speaking of things I don't want to see, I get the sense that some people, including some people who like her, want her "put in her place." They want her to be broken and stop challenging Shepard and become almost subservient to him/her. I don't want that.

I like that about her. She does make rather tact suggestions regarding Mordin and then the decision on what to do with the IFF.

Yeah. I think the way she is is an excellent balance for any shep. Without that dynamic she becomes just another squadmate.

[snfonseka]

jtav wrote...

Biotics aren't genetic, so it depends on if she was implanted with the nodules.

We don't have enough information on this in codex. It won't say that the Biotics are not genetic or genetic. Please correct me if I am wrong.

[Arhka]

snfonseka wrote...

jtav wrote...

Biotics aren't genetic, so it depends on if she was implanted with the nodules.

We don't have enough information on this in codex. It won't say that the Biotics are not genetic or genetic. Please correct me if I am wrong.

A clone to Miranda's father would have to include biotics IMO. After Miranda's independence, he may have found a way to replicate her biotic potential. Otherwise, why keep going after Oriana if couldn't duplicate that other than it's potentially faster?

[fongiel24]

snfonseka wrote...

jtav wrote...

Biotics aren't genetic, so it depends on if she was implanted with the nodules.

We don't have enough information on this in codex. It won't say that the Biotics are not genetic or genetic. Please correct me if I am wrong.

Biotics are born, not made, but as for whether this is determined by genetics or environment isn't entirely clear. The codex states that all asari are biotic and that biotics are rare amongst turians and krogan, but amongst humans I suspect it's a mix of both. Genetics determine how likely a fetus can gain biotic ability but actually having that ability manifest itself depends on environmental factors (such as exposure to element zero while in the womb). Even if biotic abilities manifest themselves, humans require training and amps to actually utilize biotics.

If Orianna never received training nor had amps implanted, I doubt she'd have much biotic ability. Depending on how early she was abducted/rescued, I wouldn't be surprised if she didn't even know she was a biotic.

Modifié par fongiel24, 13 août 2010 - 04:46 .

[Pwnisher]

Interesting, Oriana as a biotic. Never thought of that.

[MadCat221]

Miranda was born in 2150.

The first big eezo contamination occurred in 2151.

Something doesn't add up....

fetal eezo exposure is the obvious determinant for biotic ability, but genetics may determine whether or not the fetus survives with no major ill effects.  Can't have mass effect generation without eezo, so it's not purely genetics.

Modifié par MadCat221, 13 août 2010 - 05:03 .

[KendallX23]

MadCat221 wrote...

Miranda was born in 2150.

The first big eezo contamination occurred in 2151.

Something doesn't add up....

ah well....what's a year....Bioware made a litle mistake..or Miranda got the biotics after

[Arhka]

KendallX23 wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

Miranda was born in 2150.

The first big eezo contamination occurred in 2151.

Something doesn't add up....

ah well....what's a year....Bioware made a litle mistake..or Miranda got the biotics after

Even though genetic modification that adds traits to a person is technically illegal, I'm not surprised if Mr. Lawson had some illegal experiments off to the side to add this trait to his clones.

[MadCat221]

Arhka wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

Miranda was born in 2150.

The first big eezo contamination occurred in 2151.

Something doesn't add up....

ah well....what's a year....Bioware made a litle mistake..or Miranda got the biotics after

Even though genetic modification that adds traits to a person is technically illegal, I'm not surprised if Mr. Lawson had some illegal experiments off to the side to add this trait to his clones.

Biotics is not entirely genetic.  Eezo is needed for ANY kind of mass effect generation.  No eezo nodules in the nervous system, no biotic ability.

Modifié par MadCat221, 13 août 2010 - 05:05 .

[Arhka]

MadCat221 wrote...

Arhka wrote...

KendallX23 wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

Miranda was born in 2150.

The first big eezo contamination occurred in 2151.

Something doesn't add up....

ah well....what's a year....Bioware made a litle mistake..or Miranda got the biotics after

Even though genetic modification that adds traits to a person is technically illegal, I'm not surprised if Mr. Lawson had some illegal experiments off to the side to add this trait to his clones.

Biotics is not entirely genetic.  Eezo is needed for ANY kind of mass effect generation.  No eezo nodules in the nervous system, no biotic ability.

True, but again, Mr. Lawson produced clones(Miranda and Oriana). Miranda could've had implanted nodules a few years after via secret project, or Oriana could've been exposed to eezo in her making. I brought up the genetic modification b/c it seems they need to grow in/provide an example of human modification.

Modifié par Arhka, 13 août 2010 - 05:12 .

[kraidy1117]

MadCat221 wrote...

Miranda was born in 2150.

The first big eezo contamination occurred in 2151.

Something doesn't add up....

fetal eezo exposure is the obvious determinant for biotic ability, but genetics may determine whether or not the fetus survives with no major ill effects.  Can't have mass effect generation without eezo, so it's not purely genetics.

Proof that she was born in 2150?

[Arhka]

kraidy1117 wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

Miranda was born in 2150.

The first big eezo contamination occurred in 2151.

Something doesn't add up....

fetal eezo exposure is the obvious determinant for biotic ability, but genetics may determine whether or not the fetus survives with no major ill effects.  Can't have mass effect generation without eezo, so it's not purely genetics.

Proof that she was born in 2150?

I think the proof came from the ME website stating her age, and then people did current time - her age = 2150. But as messed up as some of the ages are (Mordin) , her birthdate I think is in question.

[kraidy1117]

Arhka wrote...

kraidy1117 wrote...

MadCat221 wrote...

Miranda was born in 2150.

The first big eezo contamination occurred in 2151.

Something doesn't add up....

fetal eezo exposure is the obvious determinant for biotic ability, but genetics may determine whether or not the fetus survives with no major ill effects.  Can't have mass effect generation without eezo, so it's not purely genetics.

Proof that she was born in 2150?

I think the proof came from the ME website stating her age, and then people did current time - her age = 2150. But as messed up as some of the ages are (Mordin) , her birthdate I think is in question.

The website as of now because of alot of false ages is wrong. Miri is 32 to 38. Since we are not given her birthdate, we don't know how old.

[Ieldra]

MadCat221 wrote...

Miranda was born in 2150.

The first big eezo contamination occurred in 2151.

Something doesn't add up....

fetal eezo exposure is the obvious determinant for biotic ability, but genetics may determine whether or not the fetus survives with no major ill effects.  Can't have mass effect generation without eezo, so it's not purely genetics.

Miranda's biotics and the timeline:
This is an old problem. A way to get around it has been proposed in the Miranda Lawson FAQ. Miranda would have had the eezo nodules implanted in her brain through a surgical procedure adapted from the krogan. The Codex explitly mentions that krogan can become biotics by surgery. I can see no reason why that shouldn't work for humans as well.

BTW: Even if she is 32, things wouldn't add up the normal way. The first eezo expositions happened in 2151, but its effects on the human children weren't discovered until 2156. Miranda couldn't have been exposed on purpose, because the knowledge didn't exist at her latest plausible birthdate.

Miranda's age:
There is some uncertainty about it, but there is lower limit: she must have been old enough to act decisively against her father when Oriana was a small child. I'd say the age difference between her and Oriana is not less than 13 years. If Oriana was one when Miranda took her away, then Miranda would have been 14 - which is already seriously stretching it. This is why an age of 32 (Oriana's 19 plus 13) is the lowest plausible limit, and an age of at least 34 much more likely.
Miranda says her father grew Oriana when she was a teenager, that also points at the possible range.

Biotics and genetics:
Biotics aren't genetic in humans. Humans don't naturally build eezo nodules, so there can't be any genes specific to biotic ability. There may be genetic factors connected to other traits that influence how strong a biotic someone can become, but you can't make a biotic through genetic modification.

Oriana as a biotic:
I consider it unlikely. If Miranda's father has found a method of making biotics reliably through implantation of eezo nodules, as Miranda's example indicates, it's doubtful he would leave things to chance with Oriana - the eezo exposure in the womb comes with a high risk of death. The important aspect is the eezo nodules must be present before onset of puberty, so it's also unlikely Oriana would have undergone the procedure as a small child. After that, there was no more opportunity since her father lost access to her. Oriana is most likely not a biotic.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 13 août 2010 - 08:06 .

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Biotics and genetics:
Biotics aren't genetic in humans. Humans don't naturally build eezo nodules, so there can't be any genes specific to biotic ability. There may be genetic factors connected to other traits that influence how strong a biotic someone can become, but you can't make a biotic through genetic modification.

Oriana as a biotic:
I consider it unlikely. If Miranda's father has found a method of making biotics reliably through implantation of eezo nodules, as Miranda's example indicates, it's doubtful he would leave things to chance with Oriana - the eezo exposure in the womb comes with a high risk of death. The important aspect is the eezo nodules must be present before onset of puberty, so it's also unlikely Oriana would have undergone the procedure as a small child. After that, there was no more opportunity since her father lost access to her. Oriana is most likely not a biotic.

Genetics can't make a human biotic but  I think a certain combination of genes would be needed for a fetus to become a biotic. The same eezo exposure that turns some people into biotics is capable of causing cancer of death in others and I doubt this is completely random. What I want to know is whether humanity has discovered precisely what genes determine biotic potential or whether the Alliance and organizations like Cerberus are still dependent on finding biotic individuals by chance or hit-and-miss experimentation.

The point about Oriana made me wonder about something. Why did Miranda's father feel it necessary to make Miranda a biotic but not Oriana? If his daughters are being created for the purpose of leading an empire, why risk giving them biotics at all? The process of eezo exposure, biotic amps, and training are all obviously dangerous. What benefits would biotic ability have for the head of a corporate empire? If the purpose of creating Miranda and her sisters was to forge supersoldiers or superagents I could understand it, but this is clearly not the case. Miranda seems tailormade for military/paramilitary organizations like Cerberus or the Alliance, not Miranda's father.