15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Elyvern]

fongiel24 wrote...

jtav wrote...

And fongiel, I don't envision her actively seducing him as much as "You're attracted to me. I'm attracted to you. Let's not make more of it than this is." As for the loyalty mission, point taken.

I'm not saying Miranda would actively be seducing Shepard in an attempt to manipulate him. She's intelligent and capable enough that she could find a way to get him to stick to the mission without offering her body in a trade. Something like that would probably be frowned on by TIM as well, since Shepard's mind is supposed to be on stopping the Collectors, not "when do I get to bang Miranda again".
What I was getting at is that Shepard does not necessarily know this. He sees a gorgeous woman who also happens to be a highly-trained Cerberus agent and his handler offer him sex right off the bat and alarm bells immediately start going off. If he's capable of using the head on his shoulders instead of the head between his legs, he's probably already wary of any tricks Cerberus might pull, given their reputation.
Still, I really like this casual sex idea. It provides a lot of possibilities for relationship development. Do you mind if I borrow elements of it, jtav?

The romance scene in ME2 could very well be considered a casual sex encounter, although there is definitely evidence to prove otherwise as well, ahh...the beauty of ambiguity. But anyway, it always strikes me as a murky scenario especially when there's the miasma of the suicide mission hanging and foreshadowing the entire thing. How can any romantic relationship that is made possible only by the neccessity of the mission develop free of the knowledge that death could claim all of them and that either party could very well be snatching at a few moments of connection before the end?  

Anyway, just...playing devil's advocate here. And I'm not saying that the other romances don't suffer from the same ambiguity either. In fact, I'd actually love to read fic that explores what happens after the noose is removed from everyone's neck - (ie the destruction of the collector's base) assuming that that romp in the engine room wasn't a heat-of-the-moment kind of thing. Where will they find their sense of connection then now that the urgency is gone? 

Modifié par Elyvern, 14 août 2010 - 09:27 .

[Melra]

They knew, that death is more than likely, so they gave it a shot. There was nothing to lose, but a lot to gain. I never took it as: ''Oh we are gonna die, let's bang''. It depends on the Shepard the player plays, but I never played mine as ladies' man. I saw the situation as two people ( who are devoted to their duties, so much that they don't have any personal lives ), saw it as a situation where they could go more easily all in, when the emotional backfire is less likely. They were both most likely going to die.



Anyway, I am sleepy so my text might not make any sense.

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

Have at it fongiel. I'm busy with Miranda/Thane and Miranda/Liara. No interest in writing it myself. Consider anything I ever throw out about Miranda/Shep fair game. I'm curious to see what you'd do with the idea.

I'm having trouble finetuning the dynamics of Shepard and Miranda's early-game relationship. It's supposed to be more cat-and-mouse in nature than in the game (it's more interesting to me and I think it's more in-character for Miranda than her sudden friendliness after Freedom's Progress) but I'm running into pacing problems. I intend to use your idea as a "reset" button to throw a wrench in the fragile repairs they've made to their relationship so I can slow down its progression.
I'm generally terrible at relationship progression and I have a habit of letting it slide into wedding bells and white picket fences too quickly. That would absolutely destroy the concept I have in my head, as the theme of their relationship in what I'm working on is "they're more alike than they realize and they're a perfect match for each other but paranoia keeps them from realizing it". Hopefully it'll be fun!

[fongiel24]

Melrache wrote...

I saw the situation as two people ( who are devoted to their duties, so much that they don't have any personal lives ), saw it as a situation where they could go more easily all in, when the emotional backfire is less likely. They were both most likely going to die.

I agree with this. The sword hanging over their heads is a catalyst for them to open themselves up to each other, not an excuse for a casual romp in the hay.

There seems to be a lot of fiction out there exploring Shep/Miranda relationships after ME2, but I find too many of them too sweet or angsty. Too often they're this perfect match where Shepard can always say something to make Miranda smile and Miranda knows exactly what to do to brighten his day. I want to see a fic that acknowledges what you're saying Elyvern. They might be perfect for each other, but neither of them is really great longterm boyfriend/girlfriend material. I want to see a fic where they break up over the realities of their jobs but still have very deep feelings for each other and see how someone would play with that kind of tension.

[jtav]

fongiel, if you find a story like that, I want to read it. Your own story sounds interesting as well. Is it the one you're posting now? I've reached a bit of an impasse in my own story. Most;y fear of reader reaction when I make it clear that Miranda and Shepard aren't interested in each other in the slightest and never will be. I suppose I should be grateful that he isn't interested in Tali or I'd really be dealing with torches and pitchforks.

[jtav]

And I thought of another, tiny change to make to the romance. When Miranda asks you to promise not to die, give the option for Shepard to attempt to extract the same promise from her because he can no more bear the thought of losing her than she can him.

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

fongiel, if you find a story like that, I want to read it. Your own story sounds interesting as well. Is it the one you're posting now? I've reached a bit of an impasse in my own story. Most;y fear of reader reaction when I make it clear that Miranda and Shepard aren't interested in each other in the slightest and never will be. I suppose I should be grateful that he isn't interested in Tali or I'd really be dealing with torches and pitchforks.

Yeah, it's the one I'm currently posting. It's getting frustrating to work on though. I started it as a way of putting "my" Shepard's story on paper since I didn't like some of the choices the game offered and as a way of feeding my Miranda addiction but I'm quickly realizing that I don't want to novelize every second of the game. I'm trying to pick and choose what scenes I write, but even then it's a ton of material and picking what's important and what's not is hard.

Most readers are probably used to Shepard/LI X formats or stories that focus on a single character. I haven't seen a lot of great work out there that pairs up two non-Shepard characters but that shouldn't stop you, jtav. You've pretty much got the market cornered and I think what you had with Miranda/Thane was a great start.

jtav wrote...

And I thought of another, tiny change to
make to the romance. When Miranda asks you to promise not to die, give
the option for Shepard to attempt to extract the same promise from her
because he can no more bear the thought of losing her than she can
him.

This reminded me of a beef I have with Shepard in general and his relationship with Miranda in particular. Miranda seems to be the only vulnerable one in the relationship. She's the one that has to open up about her insecurities and address her fears. All Shepard seems to offer are platitudes, cheesy platitudes, and that overconfidence that I find so annoying. It would have been great to have Shepard admit to Miranda (or any of the other LIs) that the Reapers are scary, he's afraid of failure and dying sometimes, he's not bulletproof, and he needs the love and support of his LI just as much as they seem to need his.

Modifié par fongiel24, 14 août 2010 - 09:33 .

[Elyvern]

I did read a fic that was set post victory-over-reapers where Shepard & Miri got married, and Shepard kept his position as a Spectre even though it meant that he was often months away from his family for long periods of time. And I was thinking "ahh...here's a fic that at least acknowledge things cannot be all hugs and puppies." But then it went downhill. The story was never completed and the sheer number of loopholes and character assasinations that took place made it obvious that the author didn't do any planning before writing the story. Ergh, Argh.

You're absolutely right about the amount of sap out there, Fongiel, and it absolutely makes me cringe when I see "I love yous" thrown around like confetti. Another thing I can't abide, STOP with the wetworks everytime Shepard gets hurt, omg. Miri isn't the kind of person to drown in tears and disregard command of the ship just because Shepard got hurt. In fact, she'll be double-timing to take control of the situation because that's exactly what Shepard would have done.

Modifié par Elyvern, 14 août 2010 - 09:41 .

[fongiel24]

Elyvern wrote...

I did read a fic that was set post victory-over-reapers where Shepard & Miri got married, and Shepard kept his position as a Spectre even though it meant that he was often months away from his family for long periods of time. And I was thinking "ahh...here's a fic that at least acknowledge things cannot be all hugs and puppies." But then it went downhill. The story was never completed and the sheer number of loopholes and character assasinations that took place made it obvious that the author didn't do any planning before writing the story. Ergh, Argh.

You're absolutely right about the amount of sap out there, Fongiel, and it absolutely makes me cringe when I see "I love yous" thrown around like confetti. Another thing I can't abide, STOP with the wetworks everytime Shepard gets hurt, omg. Miri isn't the kind of person to drown in tears and disregard command of the ship just because Shepard got hurt. In fact, she'll be double-timing to take control of the situation because that's exactly what Shepard would have done.

I think I've read that fic. If it's what I was thinking of, I was facepalming halfway through the first page. The idea that Shepard would propose marraige, given what he knows about the nature of his job, and the idea that Miranda would accept were he to make such a ridiculous proposal felt like a character assassination in and of itself.

Miranda getting hysterical over Shepard getting a booboo is ridiculous considering the man has made a career of escaping certain death over and over (and over) again. Miranda has actually witnessed him being brought back from the dead without missing a beat for Christ's sakes. I doubt anything short of Shepard getting knocked into a coma would even give Miranda pause.

[Caihn]

jtav wrote...

I'd prefer a less sexualized image as well, and most of the time I just ignore the visual imagery. Trying to bring the fanservice elements in line with the rest of her character is a challenge. I'd be open to a more positive interpretation.

Miranda: It's just a fact. My reflexes, my strength, even my looks -- they're all designed to give me an edge. No point in hiding from it.

How Miranda could use her looks ? 
Watch this
(I have to find an example and this one was the first I remembered)

- Did she use her looks to fulfill her objective ? YES
- Did she need to have sex ? NO
- Is this behavior makes her a b*tch ? NO

Now for the fanservice elements :

Every female characters in video games have nice faces and gorgeous body.
How Bioware could highlight her looks, and make her more attractive than the other characters ?

Their solutions :

- Sexy outfit
- Attractive curves
- Camera angles

Not the things I prefer with Miranda.

Unfortunately the result is there and we have to read immature and stupid comments.

Now if you want to tie these elements to her character with casual sex, do it.
But to me it's not justified, and the character you will describe will definitely be someone else, but not Miranda.

[kraidy1117]

There is no excuse for her outfit.

[Caihn]

I didn't say I like it.

But the loyalty one is nice.

[Nightwriter]

I need to write a comedy fanfic where Miranda files sexual harassment lawsuits against Cerberus.

[Elyvern]

Nightwriter wrote...

I need to write a comedy fanfic where Miranda files sexual harassment lawsuits against Cerberus.

I'd love to read it! Your GTA style radio skits were a pure scream!

[jtav]

I'd read that fic, night. And yes, there's entirely much fluff. What really gets me is the way he seems to dominate her in a lot of fics. There's no sense she has a life outside him in these stories. I tried writing Shep/Miranda once, but it turned into an abusive relationship about 3/4 of the way through. I still get mail from people wanting to know when they'll get back together. I stay away from trying to write it now. I just wish I could focus on either of the two stories I'm working on.

[Nightwriter]

jtav, for the last time, they know you're a good writer and they want SOME Miranda/Shep from you, not necessarily that Miranda/Shep, but since it's the only one you'll give them... yes, they want the relationship to recover.

Oh and thanks Elyvern.

Modifié par Nightwriter, 14 août 2010 - 10:37 .

[jtav]

But a happy ending would be stupid or worse. And the mail I've gotten specifically mentioned "Be All..." I could probably write her with my FemShep, because she's a bit more real than Ma;eSheps who only existed for the sake of the romance in the first place.

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Hello everyone.

Probably don't remember me but I'm back!

[Grand Admiral Cheesecake]

Nobody home?

Okay I'll come back later.

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

But a happy ending would be stupid or worse. And the mail I've gotten specifically mentioned "Be All..." I could probably write her with my FemShep, because she's a bit more real than Ma;eSheps who only existed for the sake of the romance in the first place.

I don't remember this fic. Did you take it down jtav? I'd love to see it.

Night, I think I would PAY to read the transcript from Miranda's sexual harassment suit against Cerberus .

[jtav]

Link's in my sig fongiel

[fongiel24]

Oh yeah, I've read that one. When you mentioned abusive relationship I was picturing Shepard in a wifebeater kicking Miranda's ass for not making his sandwich right and I thought, "That doesn't sound familiar."

[Nightwriter]

Hello Cheesecake.

I have no idea who you are but I know it's demeaning not to be acknowledged. So I acknowledge thee!

[jtav]

Since I seem to have returned to my usual role of speculating as to how screwed up Miranda could be, let me pose a question. How damaged is she? Is it fair to even call her damaged. It'd be a hard sell to convince me she suffers from mental illness, but I think she might have a higher risk for depression and anxiety disorders.

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

Since I seem to have returned to my usual role of speculating as to how screwed up Miranda could be, let me pose a question. How damaged is she? Is it fair to even call her damaged. It'd be a hard sell to convince me she suffers from mental illness, but I think she might have a higher risk for depression and anxiety disorders.

"Damaged" probably isn't the right word. Is Miranda capable of functioning in society and amongst other people? Obviously yes. Is she "normal"? Probably not. Then again, how many people who know what she knows about the Reapers and what really goes on in the galaxy would be "normal"? If Shepard thinks he can buy her a ring and she'll stay home and bake cookies and pop out babies for him, he can forget it.

Since I'm guessing the question is in relation to her personal history though, I'll try to get back on topic. Miranda probably has some very serious self worth and daddy issues. My beta actually suggested that her past may have a major influence on her loyalty to the Illusive Man. The praise-starved environment she was raised in, combined with the ridiculous expectations of her father, would probably ingrain in her a refusal to ever accept failure, real or imagined. This could probably lead to OCD or other anxiety disorders, as you suggest. I'm not sure about depression though. If her father couldn't break her, I'm not sure there's much out there that could. Miranda may just be too strong-willed and driven to ever allow herself to start feeling depressed.

Regarding the impact her past might have on her ability to have a "normal" relationship, I think we'd have to look at her self-worth issues. Her self-worth seems to be entirely tied into what she can offer and what she can do, not who she is. If Shepard (or someone else) tried to tell her, "I love you because of who you are, not because of your gifts and accomplishemts," I have a feeling she would have a very hard time accepting that. She's likely more jaded and wary than most, maybe even bordering on paranoia when it comes to  people trying to get close to her. The incident with Niket may even exacerbate those trust issues. Her refusal to ever accept failure in herself probably extends to others, including potential romantic interests. This may explain Jacob's comment that Miranda "requires a better man than I". Does all of this make Miranda "damaged"? I don't think so. It's just that she needs a very patient, very understanding man (or woman) capable of keeping up with her and who possesses the same kind of drive and determination in everything that they pursue. If such a man is able to fight through all that, I think they'd find themself in a very rewarding relationship, with a partner who will stick by them through thick and thin, always tell them what they need to hear, and keep them motivated to always be at their best.