15168 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

I don't think she'd flaunt it, but I don't think she'd hide it. In my head, they eventually move in together and have a child that they do their best to give a normal life. That particular Shep would have a rather undemanding teaching job and is actually the primary caregiver. She's often gone on covert missions. I think she might regard the domesticity as an escape. They're private people by nature and stalkers/fans can be kept at bay by various means. The galaxy forgot him quickly last time. Depending on ME3, they may do so again.



Just did her loyalty mission. She shot Niket and didn't speak to Oriana. I always get a lump in my throat during that last part. I want to shake her and tell her the world won't end if she lets herself be happy.



The less said about her jealousy dialogue, the better. It's one of several reasons I don't like the romance.

[fongiel24]

I disliked Sheploo's face from the moment I started ME1 (can't really explain it, might be the wide-eyed expression and I think he has a huge mouth?) so I used a custom face. Since then, it requires major suspension of disbelief for me to play a Shepard that looks like anything other than mine. Hearing a woman reading Shepard's lines makes it doubly hard. I don't hate it, it just sounds "off" to me. It's unfortunate because all fanart or fan videos featuring Shepard look odd to me.

Elyvern wrote...

Slow going, so I'm gonna throw this out on the thread.

How private or public do you think Miranda would want her relationship with Shepard to be, both onboard the Normandy and the rest of the world in general?

For me personally, they would try to be discreet. Part of my rationale is they are both very professional people that care deeply about their work, and whatever romantic relationship they have will never take precedence over the job at hand. Which in itself is extremely sexy for me. That also means no perma-moving into each other's quarters onboard. My rationale about the engine room scene? Cerberus probably has bugs all over the ship and the engine room with the mass effect core playing havoc with electronics is probably the most bug-free place (Kasumi's voyeurism is another thing all together though!)

I know this runs contrary to the LI "either her or me" conflict where Miranda says she wants everyone to know Shepard is hers, but I just cannot buy it. It's so out of character for her; that line along with the betrayal speech at the collector's base are the two OOC moments I wish I can rationalise away.

Wow, I really want to dig into this one. I don't think Miranda is big into PDA, so I'm not sure how much she'd be broadcasting their relationship even if she didn't care about their image. The relationship exists alongside the rest of her life, she has other things going as well, obviously her job and the mission. She probably takes it very seriously and it's likely something she cherishes a great deal, but she's not going to be obsessed with it. 

In public, she might be willing to give him a quick kiss or a hug on occassion, but if anyone's expecting them to be making out in the middle of the CIC, they'll be disappointed. If people try to press her on the relationship, she'll fix them with a bonechilling glare that'll make them wish they were dead rather than risk her wrath. Her private life isn't open for discussion, probably much like how she hides Oriana from everyone.

On the matter of sharing a bedroom, I can see them moving in together. They're not trying to hide their relationship and on a warship where space is limited, it's both practical and convenient. They're also both busy people who likely won't get much time together in private. Sleeping together in the same bed might be the only time they get to spend with each other for long stretches.

I didn't have such a hard time with Miranda's jealousy speech. If it was just casual sex, I doubt she'd care if Shepard had something on the side, but it isn't. Miranda is actually opening herself fully to him, body and soul. Shepard may be the first person she's let past her shell since Niket, maybe even more than Niket. She takes their relationship seriously and she wants to know he realizes that and is willing to approach it with the same seriousness.

jtav wrote...

I don't think she'd flaunt it, but I don't think she'd hide it. In my
head, they eventually move in together and have a child that they do
their best to give a normal life. That particular Shep would have a
rather undemanding teaching job and is actually the primary caregiver.
She's often gone on covert missions. I think she might regard the
domesticity as an escape. They're private people by nature and
stalkers/fans can be kept at bay by various means. The galaxy forgot him
quickly last time. Depending on ME3, they may do so again.

I can see this happening, but not for a long time, maybe a few years after the conclusion of ME3. Of course this would be dependent on them even being able to stay together that long. They might love each other, but as we've discussed in this thread, neither of them are great relationship material and the relationship would be undergoing a great deal of stress from the mission and their jobs. Once the mission's over, they'd also have to deal with the inevitable onset of boredom. I'm not sure how they'd handle that.

If they were able to deal with those problems though, I think it would be a perfect happy ending for the two of them to get away, maybe find a remote colony somewhere and start a life together. Problem is, I'm a masochist who hates idyllic happy endings. In my head, if they have a child, both of them realize trying to raise it would be a mistake, given their professions and Miranda takes it to Oriana to raise.  It'd be really intriguing to see what kind of mother Miranda would be though.

[jtav]

I like happy endings as long as they're appropriate to the characters and story. I figure that I put Miranda through so much crap that she deserves at least one possible universe where the ending is "and they all lived happily ever after." Well, more or less. And this epilogue would take place fifteen or twenty years distant from ME3. Forgive my sentimentalism, but I can't get the image of her dropping to her knees to embrace her young daughter and whispering "Mommy's home" after a long and dangerous mission.

[fongiel24]

It seems that for once I'm more sadistic than you, jtav . What I see longterm is the two of them breaking off their relationship a few months after ME2, but not being able to let each other go. They go their separate ways, but every time their paths cross, passions re-ignite and they fight, argue, make up, make love, and wish things could be different and they could be together. Since ME Retribution came out (spoiler alert -






Cerberus gets raided and even TIM gets attacked), I've got this whole scenario in my head that Miranda's Cerberus cell gets raided and just as she's about to get captured, one of the Alliance soldiers massacres his own side, hijacks a ship, and gives her the keys. Guess who that soldier is? Shepard is called to account by the Alliance/Council for his actions and is put under house arrest. Miranda extracts him and asks him why he did what he did, considering rescuing her doesn't help his ultimate goal of stopping the Reapers. Shepard tells her, "I was trying to save the galaxy but I realized a galaxy without you in it isn't one I want to live in." (shades of Mordin needing to connect with his nephew to put a face on the galaxy). *cue passionate make-up sex*

[Ieldra]

Drodjan wrote...
Also, I can see how Miranda's comment about the "betrayal" if you blow the base could be seen as IOC, but that's bc it's so ambiguous. That leaves lots of room to make it fit her character though. This is how I look at it: Shepard justifies destroying the base by saying that doing so would sacrifice humanity (both literally and figuratively) to save it. Miranda always supported Cerberus bc she believes in working for humanity's interest. However, Shepard's influence and first hand seeing people made into Reaper convinced her that keeping the base would be more of a betrayal to humanity than a help. So that's how I interpret her statement, which makes it easier for me to believe, coming from her. Hope that helps.

Ah, my pet peeve again. The problem is, there is no way that the simple act of not destroying the base can be construed to be a betrayal of humanity, not for a rational mind. To sacrifice more humans in it, yes, that would be a betrayal, but to decipher its technology, no way. So her reaction can be interpreted as emotional - which would be  understandable, except that she's the kind of person who would prefer to think such a big decision through before acting. Or, I can see her make an impulsive decision here in the heat of the moment, but to doubt that decision later.

OK, enough of that....

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...

It seems that for once I'm more sadistic than you, jtav . What I see longterm is the two of them breaking off their relationship a few months after ME2, but not being able to let each other go. They go their separate ways, but every time their paths cross, passions re-ignite and they fight, argue, make up, make love, and wish things could be different and they could be together. Since ME Retribution came out (spoiler alert -






Cerberus gets raided and even TIM gets attacked), I've got this whole scenario in my head that Miranda's Cerberus cell gets raided and just as she's about to get captured, one of the Alliance soldiers massacres his own side, hijacks a ship, and gives her the keys. Guess who that soldier is? Shepard is called to account by the Alliance/Council for his actions and is put under house arrest. Miranda extracts him and asks him why he did what he did, considering rescuing her doesn't help his ultimate goal of stopping the Reapers. Shepard tells her, "I was trying to save the galaxy but I realized a galaxy without you in it isn't one I want to live in." (shades of Mordin needing to connect with his nephew to put a face on the galaxy). *cue passionate make-up sex*

I can seee a period of that, but I also want to see some kind of happy ending. My favorite is the SF equivalent of "riding off into the sunset" together. No way to know what's in the future, no way to know if they ever settle. keep wandering the stars or continue their battles until they die, if they stay within humanity's space or go off to explore the unknown to make a different future. But whatever the universe throws at them, they'll face it together.

[jtav]

I like it. They can't be together but they can't really be apart either. I just want her to be happy. I don't much care who her partner is, but I like the idea of her in a stable, committed relationship. Speaking of, do you guys mind if I post a two paragraph excerpt from my Miranda/Thane story. I want to make sure her thoughts on Shepard and the Lazarus project sound remotely plausible.

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

I like it. They can't be together but they can't really be apart either. I just want her to be happy. I don't much care who her partner is, but I like the idea of her in a stable, committed relationship. Speaking of, do you guys mind if I post a two paragraph excerpt from my Miranda/Thane story. I want to make sure her thoughts on Shepard and the Lazarus project sound remotely plausible.

I wouldn't mind having a look, although I'm pretty sure your ideas are fine.

[jtav]

This Hasn't been properly proofread yet, so I'm sure there's some very strange typos. Also, there's a bit of ship sinking going on here. She simply isn't interested in him that way for reasons that should be clear.

"Can't sleep." He flung himself into the chair in the far corner. His legs sprawled outward, and Miranda fought the urge to tell him to sit up straight. Tousled blond hair fell in front of his face. He looked, she thought, like a very untidy lion. The fingers of his left hand drummed on the armrest. A unconscious, nervous gesture—one of the many small details that she and the rest of the Lazarus team had been responsible for re-creating, along with a fondness for singing in the shower and preferring to sleep on his left side. None of this truly impacted his ability to battle the Collectors or Reapers, but the Illusive Man had wanted Shepard back exactly as he was and Miranda took pride in a job well done.

It was a curious intimacy they shared. She didn't like him, but it had been her job to understand him. She knew who his first love had been and how much he loved Liara T'Soni despite their efforts to be discreet and Liara's frustrating insistence on referring to him as her friend whenever she spoke of him to Miranda. She knew that he'd gotten blind drunk after sending Ashley Williams to her death on Virmire. She had been reconstructed his memories, both good and bad, and given them back to him. The man sitting in front of her was her creation, even if she had only been following a template laid down years ago. She was the one who had transformed a piece of decaying flesh back into a human being. Before they ever spoke, she knew that he never raised his voice when angry because she was the one who had made him that way. Michael Shepard was the closest thing to a child she would ever have.

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

This Hasn't been properly proofread yet, so I'm sure there's some very strange typos. Also, there's a bit of ship sinking going on here. She simply isn't interested in him that way for reasons that should be clear.

"Can't sleep." He flung himself into the chair in the far corner. His legs sprawled outward, and Miranda fought the urge to tell him to sit up straight. Tousled blond hair fell in front of his face. He looked, she thought, like a very untidy lion. The fingers of his left hand drummed on the armrest. A unconscious, nervous gesture—one of the many small details that she and the rest of the Lazarus team had been responsible for re-creating, along with a fondness for singing in the shower and preferring to sleep on his left side. None of this truly impacted his ability to battle the Collectors or Reapers, but the Illusive Man had wanted Shepard back exactly as he was and Miranda took pride in a job well done.

It was a curious intimacy they shared. She didn't like him, but it had been her job to understand him. She knew who his first love had been and how much he loved Liara T'Soni despite their efforts to be discreet and Liara's frustrating insistence on referring to him as her friend whenever she spoke of him to Miranda. She knew that he'd gotten blind drunk after sending Ashley Williams to her death on Virmire. She had been reconstructed his memories, both good and bad, and given them back to him. The man sitting in front of her was her creation, even if she had only been following a template laid down years ago. She was the one who had transformed a piece of decaying flesh back into a human being. Before they ever spoke, she knew that he never raised his voice when angry because she was the one who had made him that way. Michael Shepard was the closest thing to a child she would ever have.

I think Miranda's feelings and thoughts on Shepard seem fairly in-character, although I took a different approach to the Lazarus resurrection. I figured with something like memory, Cerberus would reconstruct it simply by analyzing scans taken of Shepard's brain before the Collector attack and rebuild his brain to those exact specifications, down to the smallest subatomic details, thus restoring memory that way (forgive me if my understanding of memory and biology seem embarassingly amature). My Miranda only knows what's been written and recorded about Shepard for this reason - his private thoughts and memories remain his own. There's nothing wrong with your approach from a storyline perspective, but how does Cerberus extract Shepard's memories from before the Collector attack so they can be reviewed by Miranda and restored during the course of the reconstruction?

I like your idea that Miranda thinks of Shepard as a kind of quasi-child of hers though. There are obvious similarities between Miranda's role as his handler and that of a mother and child. Miranda may even know Shepard better than most parents know their children and her dedication to his wellbeing may likewise exceed that of a mother's, given his importance to her mission.

[jtav]

Thanks fongiel. I admit I haven't the slightest idea how Lazarus works but I'm uncomfortable with reducing personality and memory to mere brain chemistry, so Miranda's knowledge is more intimate than it probably should be. I was most worried about recasting their relationship as mother-son since he's male and they're both straight in the story but there's still no romance. Some people are very attached to their preferred pairings.

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

Thanks fongiel. I admit I haven't the slightest idea how Lazarus works but I'm uncomfortable with reducing personality and memory to mere brain chemistry, so Miranda's knowledge is more intimate than it probably should be. I was most worried about recasting their relationship as mother-son since he's male and they're both straight in the story but there's still no romance. Some people are very attached to their preferred pairings.

I realize this isn't a Shepard-centric fic, but I think Miranda's quasi-mother-son relationship with Shepard presents some possibilities. You stated that Miranda doesn't even like Shepard, but will she at least respect him by the end of the fic? Maybe Miranda thinks she knows everything about Shepard because of her access to his memories and thoughts but he still somehow manages to surprise her in a way that helps them develop a stronger platonic relationship.

Unrelated to the above, but I'm curious about how you're going to approach Miranda and Thane's loyalty missions. Are you going to shift the main character role to the two of them and have Shepard take a backseat? Like having Thane defuse Miranda when she's confronting Niket and having Miranda track Kolyat. I've always thought Miranda would have been a better choice for assisting Thane in his loyalty mission because of her experience in wetwork (trailing Kolyat without being detected) and in understand psychology (for talking Kolyat down at the end).

[Caihn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

The problem is, there is no way that the simple act of not destroying the base can be construed to be a betrayal of humanity, not for a rational mind.

Again it's YOUR point of view.

And a rational mind can also think of the consequences of keeping the base.

To sacrifice more humans in it, yes, that would be a betrayal, but to decipher its technology, no way.

She knows what TIM would have done with the base. She knows he would have not just study the technology.

Or, I can see her make an impulsive decision here in the heat of the moment, but to doubt that decision later. 

The fact is she doesn't doubt. And I think she's right. What I've read from retribution confirm that TIM can't be trusted.

[jtav]

The platonic relationship is hugely important and will develop more or less along the lines you describe, coupled with Shepard and Miranda finding a middle ground between her ruthless pragmatism and his idealism. Miranda and Thane will be taking a large role in each other's loyalty missions, particularly Thane's. In at least one instance, shall be leading a team that will handle a loyalty mission while Shepard does something else.

[Spartas Husky]

Yannkee wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

The problem is, there is no way that the simple act of not destroying the base can be construed to be a betrayal of humanity, not for a rational mind.

Again it's YOUR point of view.

And a rational mind can also think of the consequences of keeping the base.

To sacrifice more humans in it, yes, that would be a betrayal, but to decipher its technology, no way.

She knows what TIM would have done with the base. She knows he would have not just study the technology.

Or, I can see her make an impulsive decision here in the heat of the moment, but to doubt that decision later. 

The fact is she doesn't doubt. And I think she's right. What I've read from retribution confirm that TIM can't be trusted.

BTW yankee, I been meaning to ask, where di you got that picture you got as your profile pic? where Miranda is holding Sheps arm? did you draw it?... coz I would like to save it 

[Elyvern]

Riding off into the sunset sounds great....except I keep thinking about human lifespans in ME. 150 is average? While Miranda can expect to live to 230 or so? Since they're both in their 30s, sunset won't be coming for a looooooooong while, I'd suspect.
I really cannot imagine them settling down for a long time yet. Not sure if female biological clocks are anywhere near the 20th century's equivalent, or if there are uterine replicators in existence then. But a totally au naturale conception would have to occur sooner than later unless its in-vitro fertilisation. Unless the speed of aging is slowed down too. Sorry, can't...stop brain...from running into tangents....Hmm..given the prolonged lifespans, you can actually live to see your great-great grand children!

Modifié par Elyvern, 16 août 2010 - 11:37 .

[jtav]

The codex mentions IVF is the usual method of concept and there;s a line in Ascension about many women waiting until ther forties or fifities to start a family. Given that Miranda ages at 2/3 the nornal speed, she may be in her 80s when she has children, if she has them.

[Caihn]

Spartas Husky wrote...

BTW yankee, I been meaning to ask, where di you got that picture you got as your profile pic? where Miranda is holding Sheps arm? did you draw it?... coz I would like to save it 

No I didn't draw it.
You can find the drawing here : http://patryk-garret...ect-2-174252065

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

The codex mentions IVF is the usual method of concept and there;s a line in Ascension about many women waiting until ther forties or fifities to start a family. Given that Miranda ages at 2/3 the nornal speed, she may be in her 80s when she has children, if she has them.

Call me old-fashioned, but if Miranda and Shepard do have kids, I like the idea of them doing it the traditional way. Something about the image of pregnant Miranda sending Shepard to the corner store for pickles and ice cream just brings a smile to my face .

[Shadow_broker]

fongiel24 wrote...

jtav wrote...

The codex mentions IVF is the usual method of concept and there;s a line in Ascension about many women waiting until ther forties or fifities to start a family. Given that Miranda ages at 2/3 the nornal speed, she may be in her 80s when she has children, if she has them.

Call me old-fashioned, but if Miranda and Shepard do have kids, I like the idea of them doing it the traditional way. Something about the image of pregnant Miranda sending Shepard to the corner store for pickles and ice cream just brings a smile to my face .

Miranda? a prego? But dat ass
Btw their baby would be a real bad ass

[cihimi]

fongiel24 wrote...

Call me old-fashioned, but if Miranda and Shepard do have kids, I like the idea of them doing it the traditional way. Something about the image of pregnant Miranda sending Shepard to the corner store for pickles and ice cream just brings a smile to my face .

Somehow I cannot, for the life of me, envision Shep living that kind of domesticated life. He'll go as all cowboys and jaded soldiers go...into the sunset...better to burn than fade away.

[Elyvern]

[quote]fongiel24 wrote...

Wow, I really want to dig into this one. I don't think Miranda is big into PDA, so I'm not sure how much she'd be broadcasting their relationship even if she didn't care about their image. The relationship exists alongside the rest of her life, she has other things going as well, obviously her job and the mission. She probably takes it very seriously and it's likely something she cherishes a great deal, but she's not going to be obsessed with it. 

In public, she might be willing to give him a quick kiss or a hug on occassion, but if anyone's expecting them to be making out in the middle of the CIC, they'll be disappointed. If people try to press her on the relationship, she'll fix them with a bonechilling glare that'll make them wish they were dead rather than risk her wrath. Her private life isn't open for discussion, probably much like how she hides Oriana from everyone.

On the matter of sharing a bedroom, I can see them moving in together. They're not trying to hide their relationship and on a warship where space is limited, it's both practical and convenient. They're also both busy people who likely won't get much time together in private. Sleeping together in the same bed might be the only time they get to spend with each other for long stretches.

I didn't have such a hard time with Miranda's jealousy speech. If it was just casual sex, I doubt she'd care if Shepard had something on the side, but it isn't. Miranda is actually opening herself fully to him, body and soul. Shepard may be the first person she's let past her shell since Niket, maybe even more than Niket. She takes their relationship seriously and she wants to know he realizes that and is willing to approach it with the same seriousness.

[/quote]

True, but mostly my view of Miranda's willingness to sacrifice personal happiness for what she considers as important is brilliantly highlighted by the fact that she was willing to see Oriana safely out of her father's hands even if it meant Oriana may never know what Miranda did for her. I'd imagine Shepard would have to constantly fight the uphill battle convincing her it's okay to ease off, and take time out for herself, like the way she brushes off Shepard's assertion that she's more than her father's creation.

[quote]
I can see this happening, but not for a long time, maybe a few years after the conclusion of ME3. Of course this would be dependent on them even being able to stay together that long. They might love each other, but as we've discussed in this thread, neither of them are great relationship material and the relationship would be undergoing a great deal of stress from the mission and their jobs. Once the mission's over, they'd also have to deal with the inevitable onset of boredom. I'm not sure how they'd handle that.

If they were able to deal with those problems though, I think it would be a perfect happy ending for the two of them to get away, maybe find a remote colony somewhere and start a life together. Problem is, I'm a masochist who hates idyllic happy endings. In my head, if they have a child, both of them realize trying to raise it would be a mistake, given their professions and Miranda takes it to Oriana to raise.  It'd be really intriguing to see what kind of mother Miranda would be though.

[/quote]

I can't for the life of me imagine how they'd stay together for the rest of their lives either. (Especially when you consider they're both extremely young by ME's lifespan standards.) For me, it seems like Shepard would likely probably go out in a blaze of glory. God knows what's his current lifespan would be now what with being brought back to life with all those cybernetic augmentations.  

As to what kind of mother Miranda would make - I think we'd first have to ask the question if she would genetically engineer her children the way her father did to her, or leave it to nature and serendipity. I'd imagine both options would make a big difference as to how she'll raise them.


[/quote]

[jtav]

The Shepard I've envisioned for the "happily ever after" ending wants that domesticated life. He lost so much at Torfan and against the Reapers. He wants not to have to lose anything ever again. All he wants is to spend the rest of his life with Miranda and his other loved ones. Since nothing except meeting her has gone right for him since Mindoir, he feels the universe owes him some peace.

[fongiel24]

It'd be interesting to see the choices Miranda would make if she did decide to have a children. On the one hand, she might be completely disgusted by the way her father created her and thus decide to go the all natural route of getting pregnant and having the bare minimum of in-utero treatments for genetic diseases/defects. Conversely, her quest for perfection might push her towards engaging in extensive genetic bioengineering, even though she obviously wouldn't treat her children the same way her father did her after they were born.

jtav wrote...



The Shepard I've envisioned for the "happily ever after" ending wants that domesticated life. He lost so much at Torfan and against the Reapers. He wants not to have to lose anything ever again. All he wants is to spend the rest of his life with Miranda and his other loved ones. Since nothing except meeting her has gone right for him since Mindoir, he feels the universe owes him some peace.

I think it'd be hard for any Shepard, no matter his alignment or background, to fully settle down. When you've spent your entire adult life on the move, I imagine you'd succumb to boredom very quickly if you attempt to live a quiet, sedentary lifestyle. I can see Shepard and Miranda thinking they want that, but quickly realizing they miss the action after a few months when the honeymoon period has ended.