15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

PTSTormgarde wrote...

jtav wrote...

I liked her from the first. I still want to shake her on occasion, mostly over the control chip and Jack. But she's also capable of breaking my heart. So I get both sides. I think the reason she's hated is that the game tries so hard to make you love her. She has sex appeal, is extremely useful in all gameplay situations, and hard to kill off. It can feel like the game is shoving her down your throat.

Didn't they do the same in Mass Effect with Liara?

They're still doing that with Liara. She gets her own DLC....

[fongiel24]

Regarding whether Miranda would make a good XO, I think Miranda is kind of like a really good backup quarterback (or backup goalie). She's a good enough leader to hold things together temporarily, but you wouldn't want her running the show forever.



Her problem is that her leadership style is that of a taskmaster or a disciplinarian - she gives orders and you're expected to follow them. This can work at first, but eventually your subordinates will tune you out or rebel. I suspect this is likely what happened with Wilson. Eventually, even the prestige of working on the most amazing medical project in human history isn't enough to keep him loyal. Money or something else may have gotten to him as well, but from his logs you get the sense he was just chafing against Miranda's authority and eventually just snapped.

ShadowJ20 wrote...



I'm a big Miranda fan and even I can't stand her at the start. She's a bit mean to Shepard right off the bat which pretty much puts people off right there. She's a bit egotistical as well in your first or second conversation. "I'm good at anything I choose to be at" or something like that. And she's a Ceberus apologist. You gotta have some tough skin or be patient in order to like Miranda.

I wish the game had extended Miranda's "****y" attitude more. Not as in make her colder, but make it take longer for her to warm up. I see the reason for Miranda's initial icy attitude as her seeing Shepard as stepping on her toes. She's used to being in charge and suddenly Shepard is parachuted in to take over from her. She might not be fully aware of how badly her disciplinarian style is for team morale so the sudden leadership change is very unwelcome.



I would have liked to have seen Miranda less susceptible to Shepard's charismatic leadership. Her character trailer stated that Shepard would have to earn her trust and respect. I would have liked this process to have taken longer.

[Ieldra]

ShadowJ20 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

PTSTormgarde wrote...

Kronner wrote...

I do not recall the exact line but she says something like "seeing it firsthand I am not sure it is good idea to keep it, it seems like betrayal" - I do not see any guidance.

I meant in the sense of embarking on the suicide mission. Would Miranda still figure out that TIM is a bloody crook without being part of the suicide mission?

I think her trust in TIM has already diminished, before the suicide mission.
But I think she make her decision because of what she see in the collector base and because she knows what TIM would do with the base.

Well let's think about it.  Imagine this.  Let say you were on Shepard's squad and you were fighting along side Shep on the sucide mission.  You save Dr.Chakwas and she tells you that the colonist were "processed".  That means they were liqueified. You see all the tubes etc.  I think Lilith was being processed by something that was acidic or whatever.  If I were walking around that base I'd puke.  Imagine actually being in the collector base with all that going on.  I'm extremely disgusted at people who sex traffic little children.  I'd be even more disgusted at a place that has claimed thousands of lives by liquefying humans.

I'd want to puke, too. But I'd still want to know the details of the Reaper technology used there. After I had milked the base of every interesting piece of data, then I'd destroy it.

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...

Regarding whether Miranda would make a good XO, I think Miranda is kind of like a really good backup quarterback (or backup goalie). She's a good enough leader to hold things together temporarily, but you wouldn't want her running the show forever.

Her problem is that her leadership style is that of a taskmaster or a disciplinarian - she gives orders and you're expected to follow them. This can work at first, but eventually your subordinates will tune you out or rebel. I suspect this is likely what happened with Wilson. Eventually, even the prestige of working on the most amazing medical project in human history isn't enough to keep him loyal. Money or something else may have gotten to him as well, but from his logs you get the sense he was just chafing against Miranda's authority and eventually just snapped.

ShadowJ20 wrote...

I'm a big Miranda fan and even I can't stand her at the start. She's a bit mean to Shepard right off the bat which pretty much puts people off right there. She's a bit egotistical as well in your first or second conversation. "I'm good at anything I choose to be at" or something like that. And she's a Ceberus apologist. You gotta have some tough skin or be patient in order to like Miranda.

I wish the game had extended Miranda's "****y" attitude more. Not as in make her colder, but make it take longer for her to warm up. I see the reason for Miranda's initial icy attitude as her seeing Shepard as stepping on her toes. She's used to being in charge and suddenly Shepard is parachuted in to take over from her. She might not be fully aware of how badly her disciplinarian style is for team morale so the sudden leadership change is very unwelcome.

I would have liked to have seen Miranda less susceptible to Shepard's charismatic leadership. Her character trailer stated that Shepard would have to earn her trust and respect. I would have liked this process to have taken longer.

Yes. I wish getting Miranda to trust Shepard had required some real effort. That would not only have been more in character, but also resulted in a more satisfying romance (not that I dislike it, but more time would have made it better). Of course, that would have increased the number of haters. Seems some people can't deal with characters who don't immediately worship the ground you've walked on.

[jtav]

I must be a contrarian. I like characters that don't immediately love me. It's so much more satisfying to feel you have earned these confidences. And more time would have improved the romance, as would better pacing.

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I'd want to puke, too. But I'd still want to know the details of the Reaper technology used there. After I had milked the base of every interesting piece of data, then I'd destroy it.

Idea just popped in my head regarding how we can possibly keep the base and have Miranda quit Cerberus as well (her resignation speech is fantastic but those of us who want to keep the base for pragmatic reasons never get it). The problem most people have with handing the base over is not the fact that people were killed there, it's that they're handing it over to Cerberus and they're concerned more people might be processed.

What Shepard needs is a guarantee against TIM using the base unethically. Hmm... if only Shepard had a means to blackmail Cerberus, maybe an ally who happened to be a very senior officer in the organization who knew all sorts of dirty little secrets and names and places and... oh wait... he does. Miranda has leverage on Cerberus that could be used to make life extremely difficult for TIM. In the time it would take TIM to build a human reaper, Miranda could provide enough information for the Alliance or the Council to put such a beating on Cerberus they'd never recover.

Regarding why Miranda would resign, well Paragon Shepard comments that TIM is completely ruthless and might try to build his own Reaper. TIM dodges this question by stating he will do whatever it takes to defend humanity. MIranda could step in here, realizing that TIM actually IS ruthless enough to try something like that. This is where she would resign and threaten him with exposure.

[jtav]

Reading certain discussions, I have half a mind to spare Miranda after all. I wonder if I can engineer things so I save her on the platform?



I must be a softie.

[PTSTormgarde]

I still have some hope Bioware will put out a romance themed DLC but I really doubt. They claimed to be looking into it and interested but..As far as I know, it could be just crowd-appeasing.

[jtav]

Since my expectations regarding ME3 and Miranda are very low indeed, I'll take closure with her father however I can find it. My hopes, however, are boundless bordering on unreasonable.

[Prudii Aden]

Indeed, one of the main reasons why I more often than not destroy the base is not because I think it's an abomination, but because that would mean handing it over to Cerberus and Tim, who I really don't trust. If there was an option to keep the base for yourself, like you can keep the data from the deep cover Cerberus agent, I'd have taken it.

[fongiel24]

PTSTormgarde wrote...

I still have some hope Bioware will put out a romance themed DLC but I really doubt. They claimed to be looking into it and interested but..As far as I know, it could be just crowd-appeasing.

What would a romance themed DLC look like though? Unless it modded the original game to add lines to improve and lengthen the preexisting romances, I wouldn't be interested. If it's just them giving us a penthouse where Shepard can take Miranda so she can profess her undying love for him, I'll need a bucket to throw up in.

[PTSTormgarde]

More dialogue, actions and a specific quest. It could also be a way to explore Shepard's background and even opening a way to visit Earth, per example.

[jtav]

I wish there was a way to have more dialogue, and not just romance. Throw the FemShep players a bone.

[fongiel24]

PTSTormgarde wrote...

More dialogue, actions and a specific quest. It could also be a way to explore Shepard's background and even opening a way to visit Earth, per example.

This would interest me. Any chance to explore Shepard's background would make for a great DLC, particularly if s/he gets to bring a LI who would comment on it. Maybe something like Jack showing Shepard around her cell would be possible?

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Reading certain discussions, I have half a mind to spare Miranda after all. I wonder if I can engineer things so I save her on the platform?

I must be a softie.

Just like everyone who likes someone else and doesn't want her to die? As for saving her, if she's not loyal and you take her with to...that unspeakably ridiculous end boss thing, then she's doomed.

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I'd want to puke, too. But I'd still want to know the details of the Reaper technology used there. After I had milked the base of every interesting piece of data, then I'd destroy it.

Idea just popped in my head regarding how we can possibly keep the base and have Miranda quit Cerberus as well (her resignation speech is fantastic but those of us who want to keep the base for pragmatic reasons never get it). The problem most people have with handing the base over is not the fact that people were killed there, it's that they're handing it over to Cerberus and they're concerned more people might be processed.

What Shepard needs is a guarantee against TIM using the base unethically. Hmm... if only Shepard had a means to blackmail Cerberus, maybe an ally who happened to be a very senior officer in the organization who knew all sorts of dirty little secrets and names and places and... oh wait... he does. Miranda has leverage on Cerberus that could be used to make life extremely difficult for TIM. In the time it would take TIM to build a human reaper, Miranda could provide enough information for the Alliance or the Council to put such a beating on Cerberus they'd never recover.

Regarding why Miranda would resign, well Paragon Shepard comments that TIM is completely ruthless and might try to build his own Reaper. TIM dodges this question by stating he will do whatever it takes to defend humanity. MIranda could step in here, realizing that TIM actually IS ruthless enough to try something like that. This is where she would resign and threaten him with exposure.

If only the scene were that way....

[jtav]

I have enough Renegade points to regain her loyalty anytime I please. The problem is that I built this character around the fact that Miranda was going to die and now I'm feeling sorry for her.

[fongiel24]

I killed Miranda once during a speed run (no loyalty on any of the companions) by taking her to face the Reaper. Having Shepard pick up that piece of metal and not have her pop up was so traumatic for me I lost three hours of gameplay going back so I could do her loyalty mission.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I have enough Renegade points to regain her loyalty anytime I please. The problem is that I built this character around the fact that Miranda was going to die and now I'm feeling sorry for her.

Then the story behind your game must change a bit. You could always interpret the last platform scene as Shepard believing she is dead for a few crucial moments, but she's not - the scene is like that, in fact. Maybe a few moments of reconsidering his attitude instead of a lifetime, if that's what you had planned.

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...

I killed Miranda once during a speed run (no loyalty on any of the companions) by taking her to face the Reaper. Having Shepard pick up that piece of metal and not have her pop up was so traumatic for me I lost three hours of gameplay going back so I could do her loyalty mission.

I was just forced to read another hate speech. It's amazing Miranda can set off so different reactions in people. I never killed Miranda, because I know very well the result would be a replay and the complete obliteration of all saved games that inevitably lead to her death. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 août 2010 - 09:09 .

[jtav]

And then she spends a long period of time post-game attempting to make up for treating Miranda shabbily. I like it. Tragedy is overrated.

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

And then she spends a long period of time post-game attempting to make up for treating Miranda shabbily. I like it. Tragedy is overrated.

As friends or more than friends? It feels like the only Miranda/Fem!Shep pairings I can find out there are clumsy attempts at lesbian erotica. It's to be expected I suppose, given that Miranda is the most overtly sexualized LI in the game, but no less disappointing.