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[Elyvern]

ShadowJ20 wrote...

raptor1906 wrote...

Hey since we're all Miranda fans here, can someone clear up what happened after Jacob's loyalty mission in the conversation between The Illusive Man, Shepard, Miranda and Jacob. What exactly did Miranda do?

Well to answer your question, Miranda forwarded  the Hugo Gernsback to Jacob since Jacob's father was there.  Miranda always keeps her promises so that's why she forwarded the info to Jacob.  They  were good friends years ago.  So they probably talked about personal stuff like Jacob's family.  But I think at this point (beginning of ME2) they really don't talk much at all anymore.  As Jacob said, "it got really far apart".  I think the only time Miranda talks to Jacob now is if it's work related. If not they don't talk much at all.

There's actually a lot more implied as to their relationship. Like how Jacob gets totally snappy if you try to find out about his relationship with her, especially if you use the line that says you find Miranda interesting. You can almost smell the jealousy rising off him when he abruptly terminates the conversation. And of course, the most telling line from Jacob is when he says she needs a better man than him.

I agree with you that somewhere along the line, they drifted apart, but there's no doubt there was something more between them at one point in time. I'm pretty curious what made them drift apart., but it doesn't seem like something we'd ever get an answer to.  

[jtav]

Oh, yes. I'm certain they were romantically involved at some point. At one point I was actually rooting for them to get back together. I'm a sucker for "second chance" romances and their interaction after his loyalty mission could be interpreted as there being feelings on both sides. He'd have to have some serious character development for me to believe it.



Finished my game. Not only did Miranda survive, we saved each other. Seems appropriate. Now I just have to decide which Shepard to do next.

[Ieldra]

Vulgus Presencia wrote...

I don't think she turned him down. They most likley had sex. It was two years on a station that they weren't allowed to leave. It deffinataly went past the friend zone. Jacob just couldn't figure her out, or what she wanted.

Heh, heh...imagine him saying "You're a hard woman to figure out...." to her :lol: Ah, I do like Jacob. If only he didn't have such an unbearable romance.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 août 2010 - 03:15 .

[Caihn]

ShadowJ20 wrote...

Elyvern wrote...
There's actually a lot more implied as to their relationship. Like how Jacob gets totally snappy if you try to find out about his relationship with her, especially if you use the line that says you find Miranda interesting. You can almost smell the jealousy rising off him when he abruptly terminates the conversation. And of course, the most telling line from Jacob is when he says she needs a better man than him.

I agree with you that somewhere along the line, they drifted apart, but there's no doubt there was something more between them at one point in time. I'm pretty curious what made them drift apart., but it doesn't seem like something we'd ever get an answer to.  

Yeah Jacob probably really did like Miranda, but he tried and failed to make it out of the friend zone.  Jacob says "Right, can't help you there commander if I knew what made her tick then I'd either be with her or dead."  He's not with her and he's not dead.  So he never know what motivated her or  what makes her function characteristically.   And right after that Shepard says "Sour grapes" which is an expression that means "denial of the desirability of something after one has found out that it cannot be reached or acquired".  This would make sense because Jacob said "she requires a better man than I".  Miranda always puts business first and Jacob and her do a lot of missions together so I think she doesn't want Jacob to be distracted.  As Miranda would say "less friction".  So that's why "it got really far apart" as Jacob said. If Jacob was ever with Miranda then he would just say so.  Jacob wants to end the convo because he doesn't want to embarrass himself.  Don't blame him either I'd feel embarrassed too if I got turned down.

I agree.

[Elyvern]

Vulgus Presencia wrote...

I don't think she turned him down. They most likely had sex. It was two years on a station that they weren't allowed to leave. It definitely went past the friend zone. Jacob just couldn't figure her out, or what she wanted.

When was it stated that they weren't allowed to leave for 2 years? I suspect their drifing apart may have something to do with her dissatisfaction at Jacob's sense of morality, it did sounded like she was exasperated or derisive when Jacob told her he'd let Shepard know they were Cerberus. Perhaps she thought he was too naive? 

[jtav]

I trust Jacob's romance really is that bad? I've never been able to get past the initial flirting. The aliens are much better. And I still haven't done Tali's or Jack's. For the life of me, I can't create a Shepard who would go for them.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...

I trust Jacob's romance really is that bad? I've never been able to get past the initial flirting. The aliens are much better. And I still haven't done Tali's or Jack's. For the life of me, I can't create a Shepard who would go for them.

Actually, the two in-between conversations are -  this was a surprise for me - very much OK. If the rest of the romance were like that I'd have no problem playing it. But the beginning is bad, as you know, it really puts you off the path, and the love scene as well with Jacob's "heavy risk....but the prize".  

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 août 2010 - 03:36 .

[jtav]

I think she was celibate for the entire two years for the reasons already mentioned and that she and Jacob had already imploded by then.

[Ieldra]

Hmm....this page is a wall of text and needs some visual upgrade. This one hasn't been posted for a very long time:

[jtav]

On the subject of Miranda/Jacob, I wonder what her reaction would be if Shepard romanced him? I can't see her being jealous, but maybe she'd be a bit wistful and surprised that he was the first one to find a new partner.

[Ieldra]

And this one:


"What do you mean I'm not a good XO?"

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
On the subject of Miranda/Jacob, I wonder what her reaction would be if Shepard romanced him? I can't see her being jealous, but maybe she'd be a bit wistful and surprised that he was the first one to find a new partner.

I don't think she even thinks about the possibility of coming close to Shepard unless he makes the first move. So no, there'd be no jealousy. Likely she's quite aware of the problem her emotional detachment poses for a relationship (and doesn't think it's a problem since she's convinced she doesn't need a relationship anyway), so no, I don't think she'd be surprised.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 août 2010 - 05:06 .

[Elyvern]

^ Great pic!



Ya know....for all the assertions that she can only take credits for her mistakes, if you choose the renegade choices preluding the kiss scene, Miri does say this along the lines of "I do damn good work". It's also interesting that she says this while being cornered and stalked by Shepard making it likely a heartfelt comment.



And I wonder if its possible that she probably has two standards for measuring competence and achievements. The first one would probably be her standing against the majority of the galaxy, of which she isn't likely to find serious competition. And then there's another benchmark, a far more personal one to her, with Shepard as her only competition and how she consistently falls short of.



I just find it hard that any person can be so capable but be so self-decrepating as to be wholly unrealistic about their personal capabilities and achievements.

[jtav]

It's not that hard to believe. She knows she's extremely competent, but it's because of the genes her father paid for. It's not something she earned. People question her competence at their peril because her self-worth is tied to how useful she is. She's a pretty textbook case of psychological abuse, actually.

[jtav]

You're not alone. Miranda/Jacob interests me far more than Miranda/Shepard. There's a lot of mystery there.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
You're not alone. Miranda/Jacob interests me far more than Miranda/Shepard. There's a lot of mystery there.

Jacob has grown on me a bit, but these two are a classic case of "definitely not made for each other". Shepard and Miranda *are* made for each other. That impression has not changed since day 1. It may also be the reason you don't find it particularly interesting, contrarian that you are

[jtav]

Guilty as charged. I don't think Shepard is particularly made for her. My usual Shep is an idealistic Paragon. Not particularly suited to Miranda. Though Jacob is a pretty distant fourth choice for me regarding Miranda. I'd rather see her with Kaidan, Thane, or Liara. Since there's no chance of any of those becoming canon, I don't even have to worry about the writers mucking it up. I find the execution of the canon romance unsatisfactorym and it's difficult for me to get past that.

Modifié par jtav, 20 août 2010 - 06:08 .

[cihimi]

Ieldra2 wrote...

And this one:


"What do you mean I'm not a good XO?"

Shep: "I sometimes wonder if you really know what you're doing."

[fongiel24]

Elyvern wrote...

^ Great pic!

Ya know....for all the assertions that she can only take credits for her mistakes, if you choose the renegade choices preluding the kiss scene, Miri does say this along the lines of "I do damn good work". It's also interesting that she says this while being cornered and stalked by Shepard making it likely a heartfelt comment.

And I wonder if its possible that she probably has two standards for measuring competence and achievements. The first one would probably be her standing against the majority of the galaxy, of which she isn't likely to find serious competition. And then there's another benchmark, a far more personal one to her, with Shepard as her only competition and how she consistently falls short of.

I just find it hard that any person can be so capable but be so self-decrepating as to be wholly unrealistic about their personal capabilities and achievements.

I don't think Miranda's "I do damn good work" line has to be overanalyzed. Miranda might be insecure about her abilities, but it's not because she thinks she's bad at her job. It's one thing for HER to deprecate herself but when Shepard starts baiting her, it's only natural for her to want to defend herself. I think most people would react that way.

jtav wrote...

On the subject of Miranda/Jacob, I wonder what her reaction would be if
Shepard romanced him? I can't see her being jealous, but maybe she'd be
a bit wistful and surprised that he was the first one to find a new
partner.

I agree that Miranda wouldn't get jealous if Shepard started flirting with her ex. She's not really the type to let her emotions guide her and I think she'd just rationalize it as "Jacob and I didn't work out. Jacob doesn't belong to me. Why should it bother me?".

That said, Miranda is still human so she might feel a bit wistful as jtav said, wondering what might have been if things had been different. I don't think she'd be surprised though.

If Miranda was looking for a casual fling, she could find a partner far more quickly than Jacob. If she doesn't have a casual partner, it's because she's not looking. If she's looking for something more serious, Miranda is a far tougher match than Jacob. Jacob is a fairly easy-going guy whereas Miranda is deeply insecure, has trust issues, and likely has ridiculously high standards. The chances of Miranda meeting a "soulmate", particularly while she's busy with Lazarus, are much smaller than Jacob meeting one. 

[Ieldra]

She doesn't have "trust issues". Why does everyone here think trusting someone is some kind of virtue? Most people are out for themselves, and only don't act against others because co-operation has more benefits in most everyday situations. So not trusting someone as a default seems a pretty reasonable attitude to me.



As for her self-esteem problems, she's confident enough in her abilities. So I don't like to play that up too much as well. It only affects her emotional side, which is a hindrance to being confident in a serious relationship. I agree she'll have a much harder time finding a serious relationship, but I'm also confident in her ability to - eventually - come to terms with herself.