15168 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

Well, Galaxy is kind of important here. An acquaintance of mine said he wanted a Miranda/Jacob story set when they were still together. I'm attempting to oblige. I think I'll make it so that Galaxy happens before Redemption.

[Melra]

jtav wrote...

Well, Galaxy is kind of important here. An acquaintance of mine said he wanted a Miranda/Jacob story set when they were still together. I'm attempting to oblige. I think I'll make it so that Galaxy happens before Redemption.

Ah, then.

*runs off praying, that he won't need to have ''The Prizeeeeee'' on his vessel, in ME3.*

Modifié par Melrache, 21 août 2010 - 09:43 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Well, Galaxy is kind of important here. An acquaintance of mine said he wanted a Miranda/Jacob story set when they were still together. I'm attempting to oblige. I think I'll make it so that Galaxy happens before Redemption.

That's the only way that makes sense. I wonder how official that timeline is....

[Fatal v1]

Prudii Aden wrote...

I think this one's slightly better

http://www.flickr.co...hoto/4912067745

Nice.

[snfonseka]

jtav wrote...

Ler me get this straight. Miranda left Lazarus Station to be Jacob's handler? My head hurts.

why? C'mon you really want to think that "Lazarus" is the only thing she did for two years....

Modifié par snfonseka, 22 août 2010 - 02:40 .

[tommyt_1994]

Just to butt in here, maybe in the early stages of Lazarus,TIM/Wilson figured out that Shep was currently in a state where Miri couldn't be of much help for a while. So TIM decides to put Miri on the project with Jacob, where she could be of more help for the time being. So she finishes the project with Jacob early and returns to Lazarus to continue helping build Shep. It's possible I guess

Modifié par tommyt_1994, 22 août 2010 - 03:07 .

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

Ler me get this straight. Miranda left Lazarus Station to be Jacob's handler? My head hurts.

Seems like Bioware got too ambitious with the expanded universe. The obvious (and more likely) one is that the "official" timeline is wrong and Galaxy happens before Redemption. If we're going to keep the official timeline though, then we can have some fun speculating on what happened.

Here's my take: Miranda is one of TIM's best field operatives (like she says, she's assigned the most difficult and technically demanding missions) so that's why she's assigned to Jacob in Galaxy and given the job of recovering Shepard's body in Redemption. Once she picks up Shepard's body though, the job is handed over to Cerberus' eggheads, possibly led by Wilson. At this point, Miranda, as a field operative and not a purebred scientist, is taken off Lazarus because her job is done. However, Wilson and the other scientists are unable to make progress so TIM decides to shake things up by sending in Miranda to shake things up and take charge of the reconstruction.

This explanation may also be able to explain Miranda's scientific side. Miranda seems to be a perfectionist in all things. If she were put in charge of a project like Lazarus, I doubt she'd be willing to simply show up and crack the whip. She'd likely want to learn as much as she could about the project so she could ensure its success. Her time in Lazarus may be when she pursued an education in the biological sciences. It sounds a little implausible, given she had only two years, but then again Miranda likely has a genius level intellect, can likely exist on little sleep, and utterly throws herself into the project.

Edit: Sorry, just realized tommyt_1994 basically suggested the same thing, but in less words.

ShadowJ20 wrote...

There are aren't really any good
references so there can be a very good chance for a mistake.  Anyone
can rearrange things in ME2 wiki.  So I wouldn't say it's reliable. 
Well at least the timeline isn't.  Makes more sense for Galaxy to
happen first then Redemption.  I really doubt TIM would send Miranda
who is the #1 scientist and the most trusted person away from a project
in which the fate of the galaxy hangs on the balance just to recruit
Jacob.  And leave Wilson to look after Shepard.  Wilson nearly gets
Shepard killed.

Do we know Miranda is a scientist? She seems to think like a scientist and see the world like a scientist, but when would she have had a chance to pursue a scientific education? She runs from her father in her mid-to-late teens. She presumably has been working for Cerberus ever since, except perhaps for a brief period when she was still on the run. It's possible she received her education while with Cerberus, but with her combat, biotic, and leadership skills, it seems like a waste to stick her in a lab.

Modifié par fongiel24, 22 août 2010 - 07:07 .

[Ieldra]

I think Miranda has a professional template similar to Mordin's: a scientist/operative, with more weight on the operative side compared to him. She's probably not as experienced in the detailed work as people like Wilson, but she must know enough to weigh the impact of scientific finds in order to make decisions and act as a scientific coordinator. You don't get there without a scientific education, although it could have been an informal one. I prefer to think that she got her formal education in her early Cerberus years, possibly combined with a covert operation.



Having said that, I don't think science as such is her primary qualification. That's tactics, planning and coordination of operations, covert operations as well as scientific projects. In addition to that, she can play any role in a covert operation, but not in a scientific project.

[Elyvern]

My thought is she probably knows enough to be called a scientist, but she probably doesn't have the paper certifications. If she's genetically engineered to be supremely intelligent, it's very likely that she could've taught herself, and/or learn it while on the job. Considering the wide range of things she knows and the sheer number of skills she has, it's credible that she'd be extremely quick on the uptake.

[Caihn]

 

Modifié par Yannkee, 22 août 2010 - 01:33 .

[PTSTormgarde]

[jtav]

Elyvern wrote...

My thought is she probably knows enough to be called a scientist, but she probably doesn't have the paper certifications. If she's genetically engineered to be supremely intelligent, it's very likely that she could've taught herself, and/or learn it while on the job. Considering the wide range of things she knows and the sheer number of skills she has, it's credible that she'd be extremely quick on the uptake.

That's what I think, as well, but Cerberus may have sent her to university at some point for advanced training.

Lots of Miranda discussion on other threads. I like it. Pity we can't have those discussions, but I can't blame people for not wanting to post criticism here. Even I don't always feel entirely comfortable. Though, for the record, I resent having to go out if my way when I want to kill her. You practically need a strategy guide.

[Ieldra]

ShadowJ20 wrote...
Well Miranda did say that she had the best education money could buy if you talk to her.  So she probably went to the best university in the galaxy.

Ah...I forgot that. So somehow she did acquire a formal education, and I'll have to disagree with those who say she doesn't have the papers. I would have to have been in her Cerberus time at least in part - her father paid until she ran away, Cerberus paid to let her finish. Considering her potential, TIM likely considered it money well spent.

In the Normandy she's probably second in intelligience behind Mordin.  I'd say her IQ points is no less than 150.

Intelligence and education are different things. Not completely separate, but still different. As for IQ, if intelligence can be genetically engineered, she'll probably be in the top percentile. Since different tests use different scaling, no numbers shoud be given. 

As for the other Miranda threads like "Miranda resigns from Ceberus" or the new one "Miranda kiled..:)"  I believe there just going into turn into hate threads so I'm not even going to waste my time with them.

Heh...I was going to post my delight at the decrease in knee-jerk hate posts (as opposed to reasonable dislike), when someone barged in with... well, it's better left unsaid as not to unwittingly propagate it. I'll follow those threads nonetheless, just in case a dislike is based on an easily corrected misperception.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 août 2010 - 02:52 .

[jtav]

My own attitude swings wildly between "Don't anybody dare hurt her ever!" to wanting to strangle her myself, depending on how fresh certain conversations are in my head and how badly the fridge logic of certain things bother me. So I'm available to play devil's advocate any time you like.

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Ah...I forgot that. So somehow she did acquire a formal education, and I'll have to disagree with those who say she doesn't have the papers. I would have to have been in her Cerberus time at least in part - her father paid until she ran away, Cerberus paid to let her finish. Considering her potential, TIM likely considered it money well spent.

Personally, I think yes, she had a formal education, and probably acquired several degrees likely in adminstration? computer engineering? logistics? Still doesn't preclude the possiblity that she could've learned bio-engineering while putting Shepard together.

[jtav]

I always assumed she had some sort of bioengineering degree. I doubt her degree is in the pure sciences. Also, she doesn't strike me as someone who is interested in knowledge for its own sale, but for what can be done with it. This is just my personal fanon, but I think she also received an "education" in picking pockets, conning people, hacking gambling terminals, etc. while on the run. And she is very, very good at killing people, and not just in combat like we see in the game.

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

I always assumed she had some sort of bioengineering degree. I doubt her degree is in the pure sciences. Also, she doesn't strike me as someone who is interested in knowledge for its own sale, but for what can be done with it. This is just my personal fanon, but I think she also received an "education" in picking pockets, conning people, hacking gambling terminals, etc. while on the run. And she is very, very good at killing people, and not just in combat like we see in the game.

In my fanon, she picks up a medical degree before she runs from her father (in my head her father's company does something involved in bioengineering and genetics). Yes, she was a teenager, but even now we see the occasional genius graduate in their teens and Miranda is not only a genius, she's a genius being constantly pushed to meet "impossible expectations" by her father.

When she joined up with Cerberus, she picked up additional degrees as she was assigned to different projects, likely by correspondence (Harvard is starting to post its lectures online, so I figure it's only a matter of time before the galaxy's top universities allow students to fulfil the requirements of their degrees online). 

As for her "nonacademic" education, I agree that Miranda is probably very capable in the field. She doesn't have formal training, but she's an excellent psychologist and can lie, cheat, and manipulate with the best of them, the last one being the most important because she has to compensate for not being the most charismatic.
She's proficient at killing when she has to be, but she generally dislikes it. It's not really a moral objection (although she is uncomfortable with the idea of unnecessary collateral damage) but rather a practical one: she's a field operative, not a soldier. While she was on the run, she quickly learned that leaving bodies behind attracts attention and for a field operative, all publicity is bad publicity.

[Elyvern]

jtav wrote...

I always assumed she had some sort of bioengineering degree. I doubt her degree is in the pure sciences. Also, she doesn't strike me as someone who is interested in knowledge for its own sale, but for what can be done with it. This is just my personal fanon, but I think she also received an "education" in picking pockets, conning people, hacking gambling terminals, etc. while on the run. And she is very, very good at killing people, and not just in combat like we see in the game.

I think she would be naturally inquisitive about general knowledge, but I also agree that when it comes to a formal education, she would choose more "pragmatic" topics of study. I'm almost certain Cerberus would've sent her for espionage training, which would include skills like hacking, interrogation, firearms and yes, killing and incapacitating.

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...
In my fanon, she picks up a medical degree before she runs from her father (in my head her father's company does something involved in bioengineering and genetics). Yes, she was a teenager, but even now we see the occasional genius graduate in their teens and Miranda is not only a genius, she's a genius being constantly pushed to meet "impossible expectations" by her father.

In my fanon, Miranda's father runs Earth's biggest defence contractor, and her first degree was computer science. My reasoning is that she must have been a first-class hacker as a teenager because she left spy programs in her father's systems that went undetected for quite some time. Genetics and medicine would interest her because of her own genetic engineering, but it's also something Cerberus is particularly interested in, so she could've learned that later.

It's possible that she studied most other things by correspondence, but in my fanon she had undercover jobs at places with universities, where she could practice her spy skills at the same time. A student is a very good cover identity, especially if it's for real.

As for her "nonacademic" education, I agree that Miranda is probably very capable in the field. She doesn't have formal training, but she's an excellent psychologist and can lie, cheat, and manipulate with the best of them, the last one being the most important because she has to compensate for not being the most charismatic.

This, I think, is a little problematic. How she acts on the Normandy seems to indicate her people skills aren't the best. On the other side, she hints that she has used her looks to gain an advantage, and you must have people skills for that, and in fact for almost any spy job like the one in ME:Galaxy. So if she is, as she hints, good at gauging people and knows how to manipulate them, why does she act as if she wanted to antagonize people at times on the Normandy, or on Lazarus Station? I do think she has those skills, but there seems to be a contradiction. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 22 août 2010 - 06:23 .

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

This, I think, is a little problematic. How she acts on the Normandy seems to indicate her people skills aren't the best. On the other side, she hints that she has used her looks to gain an advantage, and you must have people skills for that, and in fact for almost any spy job like the one in ME:Galaxy. So if she is, as she hints, good at gauging people and knows how to manipulate them, why does she act as if she wanted to antagonize people at times on the Normandy, or on Lazarus Station? I do think she has those skills, but there seems to be a contradiction. 

I think Miranda is a good faker. I think the reason why she has problems on the Normandy and on the Lazarus Project is that these are long term engagements in confined quarters and eventually she's unable to keep up the charade. In the field, she can flirt and flatter and lie and by the time the other person realizes they've been manipulated, she's gotten what she wanted and has disappeared.

On the Normandy or Lazarus, she can't use these same tactics because she sees the same people for months at a time and eventually they will be able to see through her facade. Miranda is smart enough to realize that being caught manipulating your subordinates is an excellent way to destroy a team so she doesn't bother with the trickery. Instead, she has to rely on her less-developed "real" social skills and hope her competency and force of will can keep the team moving. Sometimes it works, sometimes it goes horribly wrong, as in Lazarus.

[Elyvern]

fongiel24 wrote...

I think Miranda is a good faker. I think the reason why she has problems on the Normandy and on the Lazarus Project is that these are long term engagements in confined quarters and eventually she's unable to keep up the charade. In the field, she can flirt and flatter and lie and by the time the other person realizes they've been manipulated, she's gotten what she wanted and has disappeared.

On the Normandy or Lazarus, she can't use these same tactics because she sees the same people for months at a time and eventually they will be able to see through her facade. Miranda is smart enough to realize that being caught manipulating your subordinates is an excellent way to destroy a team so she doesn't bother with the trickery. Instead, she has to rely on her less-developed "real" social skills and hope her competency and force of will can keep the team moving. Sometimes it works, sometimes it goes horribly wrong, as in Lazarus.

I can see the possibility that  she probably knows what's required to be "sociable" intellectually, and can, as you say, "fake" it on a mission or for very short durations. Especially with men if she chooses to lock their attention down first with her physical assets. Then one possible explanation for Miranda's cold and blunt personality on board the Normandy is she doesn't care what people think, or she doesn't think it's worth her effort to be nice despite possessing those people skills. That will also mean she thinks such skills aren't an integral part of being a good leader. A bit hard to swallow, but still possible and can arguably be chalked down to different leadership styles. (for example, I still don't believe a good leader needs to be liked).

One overall factor that could play a big part is it's possible as well that she's introvert and a loner by nature, so given the choice, despite having or not having those social skills, she may be dis-inclined to be nice.

My personal opinion though is that she truly lacks those people skills. FIrst reason being her father cutting her off from peer interaction for most of her formative years. And then after she escaped, she just threw herself at her work, and never tried to address the lack of social interaction in her life. There wasn't a need to until she started getting assigned leadership roles in Cerberus, and her flaw in this respect became evident. That said, I don't see it as an irredeemable weakness. All she needs is more time, and more effort at it.

Modifié par Elyvern, 22 août 2010 - 07:32 .

[Elyvern]

Double post

Modifié par Elyvern, 22 août 2010 - 07:29 .

[Caihn]

A little photoshop edit I did :

 

She's such a beauty.