15168 réponses à ce sujet

[PTSTormgarde]

^ I agree.

[Shadow_broker]

Wall of text are all over this thread

Keep your opinions and theories short my generation has little to no attention span



Shadow broker demands it

[tommyt_1994]

Shadow_broker wrote...

Wall of text are all over this thread
Keep your opinions and theories short my generation has little to no attention span

Shadow broker demands it

By the "my generation" statement, I assume you're a teen? Yeah, telling people to cut out the extensive and in-depth conversation sure doesn't furhter people's assumptions of teens <_<.

Keep up the good discussion guys. Miranda is certainly an interesting character and there's a lot that can be discussed in detail about her.

[Nightwriter]

Guys, I'm bummed.

[fongiel24]

Nightwriter wrote...

Guys, I'm bummed.

*puts on his glasses and takes out a notepad and a pen*

Tell me why you feel that way.

[fongiel24]

Grrr... double post

Modifié par fongiel24, 23 août 2010 - 03:42 .

[Khirzask]

fongiel24 wrote...

Khirzask wrote...

I've recently been watching the first season of Chuck and I can't help but draw parallels from Sarah Walker to Miranda Lawson. Secretive, intelligent, sexy officer in a secretive organization who ends up saving everyone - except it's sorely lacking Shepard. Chuck is funny, but he's a huge nerd.

It makes me want to know more about Miranda's history. I don't have an iThing so I can't play Mass Effect Galaxy (which I'm not sure adds to Miranda's plot at all anyway), but I would love a DLC or expansion or something all about Miranda - from rescuing her sister, to living on the run, all the way up to her meeting TIM and eventually being assigned to the Normandy. Miranda is easily at the top of the list of my favorite ME characters and I'd jump at the chance to learn more about her past.

In some ways I actually prefer Chuck to Shepard. Chuck is naive, idealistic, and innocent with a huge heart. He's also loyal to a fault and is willing to take on incredible risks to protect his friends (particularly Sarah), despite being scared sh*tless. These are more admirable traits IMO than Shepard's Chuck Norris impersonation. Miranda might look down on Chuck's naivette at first, but I think Chuck would be a great guy for Miranda.

You know... I'm now midway through season 2 and I find myself agreeing completely with you. In ME2 part of the reason I really like Miranda is because she comes across as one of the only women on Shepard's level - she's powerful, confident, an excellent shot and knows when to get it done when it needs to get done. Yvonne on Chuck is similar (though appropriately adapted for the show's comedic themes), but instead of being an equal in this case her "mate" is a humble nerd. I've watched some beautiful moments take place between Chuck and Yvonne (Sarah) that just couldn't happen between Shepard and Miranda because they're too busy being strong leaders. Indeed leadership and presence are what make up Miranda and Shepard, but that energy really doesn't leave much for cute romance - which is precisely what Chuck and Sarah are capable of displaying.

If I had a nickel for every time I've said "awww!" or "Miranda!" while watching Chuck, I'd probably have enough to interest BioWare into making a Miranda-centric expansion.

[snfonseka]

Khirzask wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

Khirzask wrote...

I've recently been watching the first season of Chuck and I can't help but draw parallels from Sarah Walker to Miranda Lawson. Secretive, intelligent, sexy officer in a secretive organization who ends up saving everyone - except it's sorely lacking Shepard. Chuck is funny, but he's a huge nerd.

It makes me want to know more about Miranda's history. I don't have an iThing so I can't play Mass Effect Galaxy (which I'm not sure adds to Miranda's plot at all anyway), but I would love a DLC or expansion or something all about Miranda - from rescuing her sister, to living on the run, all the way up to her meeting TIM and eventually being assigned to the Normandy. Miranda is easily at the top of the list of my favorite ME characters and I'd jump at the chance to learn more about her past.

In some ways I actually prefer Chuck to Shepard. Chuck is naive, idealistic, and innocent with a huge heart. He's also loyal to a fault and is willing to take on incredible risks to protect his friends (particularly Sarah), despite being scared sh*tless. These are more admirable traits IMO than Shepard's Chuck Norris impersonation. Miranda might look down on Chuck's naivette at first, but I think Chuck would be a great guy for Miranda.

You know... I'm now midway through season 2 and I find myself agreeing completely with you. In ME2 part of the reason I really like Miranda is because she comes across as one of the only women on Shepard's level - she's powerful, confident, an excellent shot and knows when to get it done when it needs to get done. Yvonne on Chuck is similar (though appropriately adapted for the show's comedic themes), but instead of being an equal in this case her "mate" is a humble nerd. I've watched some beautiful moments take place between Chuck and Yvonne (Sarah) that just couldn't happen between Shepard and Miranda because they're too busy being strong leaders. Indeed leadership and presence are what make up Miranda and Shepard, but that energy really doesn't leave much for cute romance - which is precisely what Chuck and Sarah are capable of displaying.

If I had a nickel for every time I've said "awww!" or "Miranda!" while watching Chuck, I'd probably have enough to interest BioWare into making a Miranda-centric expansion.

LOL! Both Sarah and Miranda have the same face... but definitely their personalities are different from each other... Miranda is a person will do what ever necessary to get the job done who will work for the "greater good" rather than personal interests. She is also a much more realistic, practicle woman where on the other hand Sarah is somewhat naive... specially about that she is so interested about Chuck because of his "innocent mind" and lack of guts to pull a trigger when necessary. So Sarah believe that makes "Chuck" a great guy...

Do you really think that Miranda will like a guy like that? According to my opinion, by saying so (that Chuck will a more suitable guy for Miranda) you are forgetting about who is Miranda and her values completely.

I like the "Chuck" show for what it is... But comparing "Sarah and Chuck" vs. "Miri and Shep" is another thing...

[fongiel24]

Chuck/Sarah is an almost sickeningly sweet pairing (keyword being almost). It gets even better imo after Chuck gets the Intersect 2.0 downloaded into his brain. I don't want to spoil too much, but it changes the nature of their relationship drastically but not the substance of it.

There's been more than a few comparisons of Sarah and Miranda but I'll add one more. To me, Sarah is what Miranda would be if Miranda was working for a less extremist organization like the Alliance instead of Cerberus. Miranda is generally more ruthless than Sarah but I'm not convinced Miranda is a truly ruthless person on the inside. She'll do what it takes, but if there's an alternative path that may result in less carnage and collateral damage she'll take it.

snfonseka wrote...

LOL! Both Sarah and Miranda have the
same face... but definitely their personalities are different from each
other... Miranda is a person will do what ever necessary to get the job
done who will work for the "greater good" rather than personal
interests. She is also a much more realistic, practicle woman where on
the other hand Sarah is somewhat naive... specially about that she is
so interested about Chuck because of his "innocent mind" and lack of
guts to pull a trigger when necessary. So Sarah believe that makes
"Chuck" a great guy...

Do you really think that Miranda will
like a guy like that? According to my opinion, by saying so (that Chuck
will a more suitable guy for Miranda) you are forgetting about who is
Miranda and her values completely.

I like the "Chuck" show for what it is... But comparing "Sarah and Chuck" vs. "Miri and Shep" is another thing...

You're right that Miranda probably wouldn't immediately go for Chuck, but I don't think she'd look down on him either. I think she'd envy what he has and who he is in the same way Sarah does. Chuck is this pure, naive, bighearted kid who hasn't yet been ruined by all the terrible things in the universe Miranda and Sarah have been exposed to. He has friends and family who love and support him - something else Miranda and Sarah lack. I think Miranda's conversation with Shepard immediately after her loyalty mission shows how much she wants to have that kind of relationship with her own sister.

Miranda might be more ruthless than Sarah, but they're in different places in their relationships with their respective leading men. Sarah does not automatically put her own interests before the greater good - she only places her relationship with Chuck above other considerations after struggling with it for a long time. We can't really say for certain whether Miranda might do the same for Shepard because their relationship is only just beginning at the end of ME2 and is never tested in the same way. In the end, I suspect Miranda would probably sacrifice Shepard, but not without torturing herself over it first.

Miranda is portrayed as being willing to do whatever is necessary and most of the time this portrayal is accurate but she does have her limits. She may be cold on the outside, but she's not a completely callous person on the inside. She has her limits. She has less limits than Sarah, but they're still there.

Modifié par fongiel24, 23 août 2010 - 06:09 .

[snfonseka]

fongiel24 wrote...

Chuck/Sarah is an almost sickeningly sweet pairing (keyword being almost). It gets even better imo after Chuck gets the Intersect 2.0 downloaded into his brain. I don't want to spoil too much, but it changes the nature of their relationship drastically but not the substance of it.

There's been more than a few comparisons of Sarah and Miranda but I'll add one more. To me, Sarah is what Miranda would be if Miranda was working for a less extremist organization like the Alliance instead of Cerberus. Miranda is generally more ruthless than Sarah but I'm not convinced Miranda is a truly ruthless person on the inside. She'll do what it takes, but if there's an alternative path that may result in less carnage and collateral damage she'll take it.

snfonseka wrote...

LOL! Both Sarah and Miranda have the
same face... but definitely their personalities are different from each
other... Miranda is a person will do what ever necessary to get the job
done who will work for the "greater good" rather than personal
interests. She is also a much more realistic, practicle woman where on
the other hand Sarah is somewhat naive... specially about that she is
so interested about Chuck because of his "innocent mind" and lack of
guts to pull a trigger when necessary. So Sarah believe that makes
"Chuck" a great guy...

Do you really think that Miranda will
like a guy like that? According to my opinion, by saying so (that Chuck
will a more suitable guy for Miranda) you are forgetting about who is
Miranda and her values completely.

I like the "Chuck" show for what it is... But comparing "Sarah and Chuck" vs. "Miri and Shep" is another thing...

You're right that Miranda probably wouldn't immediately go for Chuck, but I don't think she'd look down on him either. I think she'd envy what he has and who he is in the same way Sarah does. Chuck is this pure, naive, bighearted kid who hasn't yet been ruined by all the terrible things in the universe Miranda and Sarah have been exposed to. He has friends and family who love and support him - something else Miranda and Sarah lack. I think Miranda's conversation with Shepard immediately after her loyalty mission shows how much she wants to have that kind of relationship with her own sister.

Miranda might be more ruthless than Sarah, but they're in different places in their relationships with their respective leading men. Sarah does not automatically put her own interests before the greater good - she only places her relationship with Chuck above other considerations after struggling with it for a long time. We can't really say for certain whether Miranda might do the same for Shepard because their relationship is only just beginning at the end of ME2 and is never tested in the same way. In the end, I suspect Miranda would probably sacrifice Shepard, but not without torturing herself over it first.

Miranda is portrayed as being willing to do whatever is necessary and most of the time this portrayal is accurate but she does have her limits. She may be cold on the outside, but she's not a completely callous person on the inside. She has her limits. She has less limits than Sarah, but they're still there.

^This. This is what I loved about Miranda's personality. But if Sarah in that kind of situation she will always choose Chuck... Besides that don't you find that her obsession with Chuck because "he cannot make his mind to kill others"... is somewhat naive? I mean she is a field agent who knows the risks of the job and who knows that others lives may depend on her action... but still he wants to see Chuck to not to kill anyone.

So because of that reason Sarah is less realistic and practicle than Miri... So what I am saying is that due to that behavious she love Chuck. But when comes to Miri she is not unrealistic and non-practicle as Sarah, which makes her to be more attracted towards Shepard rather than a man who is unwilling to kill few bad guys because of to keep his morality pure and by doing so making himself a man cannot get the job done (in most cases)....

Modifié par snfonseka, 23 août 2010 - 06:30 .

[fongiel24]

snfonseka wrote...

^This. This is what I loved about Miranda's personality. But if Sarah in that kind of situation she will always choose Chuck... Besides that don't you find that her obsession with Chuck because "he cannot make his mind to kill others"... is somewhat naive? I mean she is a field agent who knows the risks of the job and who knows that others lives may depend on her action... but still he wants to see Chuck to not to kill anyone.

So because of that reason Sarah is less realistic and practicle than Miri... So what I am saying is that due to that behavious she love Chuck. But when comes to Miri she is not unrealistic and non-practicle as Sarah, which makes her to be more attracted towards Shepard rather than a man who is unwilling to kill few bad guys because of to keep his morality pure and by doing so making himself a man cannot get the job done (in most cases)....

Sarah isn't naive. Sarah is very aware of the contradiction facing her. That's why she fights so hard to keep Chuck out of situations where he might be forced to kill and why she's so reluctant to get too close to him. Due to spoilers, I'll try not to be too specific here, but when Chuck
shows an interest in becoming a real field agent, Sarah constantly
argues against it. Sarah values Chuck's innocence so much because he represents everything she fights to protect. Sarah isn't terrified by the idea of Chuck killing in and of itself, Sarah is terrified by the thought that if Chuck kills someone he'll become like Casey. She doesn't want to ruin him. When Chuck finally does kill someone, Sarah ends up being okay with it because she realizes that it in fact didn't change him.

I wouldn't say Sarah is less realistic than Miranda. She's just more emotionally driven and less willing to sacrifice her own happiness and that of Chuck.

We can't really say that Miranda would always be more attracted to soldiers like Shepard over civilians like Chuck because Miranda is never forced into a situation where she'd get a chance to get close to somebody like Chuck. I think Miranda might actually prefer dating a civilian who isn't aware of what she does for a living. Being able to go home after a long "business trip" and leave all the horrors behind to be greeted by a partner that absolutely adores her would be a welcome escape from the hard life-and-death realities of her job with Cerberus.

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...
I think Miranda might actually prefer dating a civilian who isn't aware of what she does for a living. Being able to go home after a long "business trip" and leave all the horrors behind to be greeted by a partner that absolutely adores her would be a welcome escape from the hard life-and-death realities of her job with Cerberus.

And having to lie to him all the time? No. I think Miranda would want to tell him, and wouldn't respect someone who couldn't deal with the truth. Adoration based on a lie wouldn't sit well with her at all. It's all right with someone like Oriana who she doesn't see that often, but to live it, every day? Definitely not.

BTW, I think innocence is overrated. Either you're a child, you're too dumb to see the truth, or you're willingly closing your eyes against it. You may love such a person, but you won't respect him or her. No basis for a relationship, I say. Especially for someone like Miranda.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 août 2010 - 07:14 .

[Nightwriter]

fongiel24 wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

Guys, I'm bummed.

*puts on his glasses and takes out a notepad and a pen*

Tell me why you feel that way.

Well, you see, Doctor...

All this time I thought Miranda's plot armor indicated that BioWare had something big for her planned in ME2, and it excited me.

Recently someone has said that the only reason Miranda can't die in certain parts of the suicide mission is because she's the one who has to give you directions, evidenced by the fact that after all her dialogue is done she can die just as easily as anyone else.

And I'm bummed.

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

And having to lie to him all the time? No. I think Miranda would want to tell him, and wouldn't respect someone who couldn't deal with the truth. Adoration based on a lie wouldn't sit well with her at all. It's all right with someone like Oriana who she doesn't see that often, but to live it, every day? Definitely not.

Ugh... You're probably right, Ieldra. You just destroyed my Miranda perfect world fairy tale. I'm still wondering whether Miranda could ever be with a guy (or gal) who isn't involved in the cloak-and-dagger world though. I don't think being able to fight well is necessarily a prerequisite to getting Miranda's attention.

BTW, I think innocence is overrated. Either you're a child, you're too dumb to see the truth, or you're willingly closing your eyes against it. You may love such a person, but you won't respect him or her. No basis for a relationship, I say. Especially for someone like Miranda.

I'm not sure about this. Ignorance really is bliss and even if Miranda told someone close to her what she does, I think she might withold some of the more gristly details. Seeing too much of the truth could eventually skew someone's perspective, make them colder and more callous than they might otherwise have been. I don't think someone can go through what Miranda has gone through or see what she's seen over the course of her employment by Cerberus and remain unaffected.

That's why I think Miranda's natural impulse would be to actually withold some of her nightmares from someone she loves (whether that's a romantic relationship or a platonic one).

Nightwriter wrote...

Well, you see, Doctor...

All this time I thought Miranda's plot armor indicated that BioWare had something big for her planned in ME2, and it excited me.

Recently
someone has said that the only reason Miranda can't die in certain
parts of the suicide mission is because she's the one who has to give
you directions, evidenced by the fact that after all her dialogue is
done she can die just as easily as anyone else.

And I'm bummed.

*cries into his notepad*

Whoever said that might have a point, but I'm still holding out hope. To some degree all of the companions in ME2 are interchangeable, as evidenced by the fact you can bring any of them along on missions and each of them will always have something to say, but the fact that Miranda does so much of the talking in the final mission suggests Bioware intended for her to play a more prominent role. All the companions are equal, but some are "more equal" than others.

Also for a supposedly "squishy" character (she wears no armour and carries only light sidearms), Miranda is surprisingly tough when holding the line, falling in the second group behind only Garrus, Grunt, and Zaeed in terms of survivability. I'm really reaching here, but I think this and the fact Bioware made her the one to guide you through the base mean they have bigger plans for her.

Modifié par fongiel24, 23 août 2010 - 08:16 .

[Elyvern]

Nightwriter wrote...

Well, you see, Doctor...

All this time I thought Miranda's plot armor indicated that BioWare had something big for her planned in ME2, and it excited me.

Recently someone has said that the only reason Miranda can't die in certain parts of the suicide mission is because she's the one who has to give you directions, evidenced by the fact that after all her dialogue is done she can die just as easily as anyone else.

And I'm bummed.

Hmm..that point has been raised many times, I'm surprised you just caught it, the frequent forum poster that you are.  Anyway, take heart! You can still hold on to the fact that they needn't have made Miranda quit Cerberus before the final and only fight she can die in if they didn't have something planned for her in ME3. Having her say that line just for the sole reason of appeasing Paragon players seems rather pointless to me otherwise.

Modifié par Elyvern, 23 août 2010 - 08:20 .

[snfonseka]

fongiel24 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

And having to lie to him all the time? No. I think Miranda would want to tell him, and wouldn't respect someone who couldn't deal with the truth. Adoration based on a lie wouldn't sit well with her at all. It's all right with someone like Oriana who she doesn't see that often, but to live it, every day? Definitely not.

Ugh... I hate when you're right Ieldra. You just destroyed my Miranda perfect world fairy tale. I'm still wondering whether Miranda could ever be with a guy (or gal) who isn't involved in the cloak-and-dagger world though. I don't think being able to fight well is necessarily a prerequisite to getting Miranda's attention.

BTW, I think innocence is overrated. Either you're a child, you're too dumb to see the truth, or you're willingly closing your eyes against it. You may love such a person, but you won't respect him or her. No basis for a relationship, I say. Especially for someone like Miranda.

I'm not sure about this. Ignorance really is bliss and even if Miranda told someone close to her what she does, I think she might withold some of the more gristly details. Seeing too much of the truth could eventually skew someone's perspective, make them colder and more callous than they might otherwise have been. I don't think someone can go through what Miranda has gone through or see what she's seen over the course of her employment by Cerberus and remain unaffected.

That's why I think Miranda's natural impulse would be to actually withold some of her nightmares from someone she loves (whether that's a romantic relationship or a platonic one).

Isn't that lying? So you are saying that Miri need to lie to the person who she fall in love and hide her true self from that person. For how long? Isn't that an extra burden for her? I don't think that love will be succesful.......

[fongiel24]

snfonseka wrote...

Isn't that lying? So you are saying that Miri need to lie to the person who she fall in love and hide her true self from that person. For how long? Isn't that an extra burden for her? I don't think that love will be succesful.......

Miranda doesn't need to tell every detail to her partner for them to understand what she's been through and who she is. It should be enough for her partner simply to know that she's seen some bad things, done some things she isn't particularly proud of, and might be forced to do them again to protect everything she holds dear. It's a difficult line to walk (as evidenced by how many broken marriages there are in the military), but there are some details someone like Miranda should leave out if she really loves her partner.

As for the extra burden, it's one of the personal costs of the job. Using your partner as an emotional dumping ground for all the stresses of your job is an excellent way to destroy any relationship. Working in the kind of field Miranda does makes this doubly true. Miranda undoubtedly has some ghosts but some of them will always haunt her, whether she dumps on her partner or not.

[Khirzask]

fongiel24 wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

Isn't that lying? So you are saying that Miri need to lie to the person who she fall in love and hide her true self from that person. For how long? Isn't that an extra burden for her? I don't think that love will be succesful.......

Miranda doesn't need to tell every detail to her partner for them to understand what she's been through and who she is. It should be enough for her partner simply to know that she's seen some bad things, done some things she isn't particularly proud of, and might be forced to do them again to protect everything she holds dear. It's a difficult line to walk (as evidenced by how many broken marriages there are in the military), but there are some details someone like Miranda should leave out if she really loves her partner.

As for the extra burden, it's one of the personal costs of the job. Using your partner as an emotional dumping ground for all the stresses of your job is an excellent way to destroy any relationship. Working in the kind of field Miranda does makes this doubly true. Miranda undoubtedly has some ghosts but some of them will always haunt her, whether she dumps on her partner or not.

Agreed - lying implies that a person is conjuring new untruthful information. Simply witholding details isn't devious. However, I see the conflict - witholding details can cause a partner to be forced to create their own conclusions based on incomplete data. It's risky because said partner's conclusions can end up somewhere nearly as bad as if lies had been spread originally, but it's not impossible to at least partially have your cake and eat it too.
But, as just about every story has told us, it never lasts. Like so many things. It's sweet for a while, maybe even adventurous and dangerous to the point of being romantic, but it never lasts. That's why relationships are so bittersweet for people who bear the types of burdens that Miranda does; they come along so incredebly rarely, and yet that perfect someone can never escape being in real danger.

[snfonseka]

fongiel24 wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

Isn't that lying? So you are saying that Miri need to lie to the person who she fall in love and hide her true self from that person. For how long? Isn't that an extra burden for her? I don't think that love will be succesful.......

Miranda doesn't need to tell every detail to her partner for them to understand what she's been through and who she is. It should be enough for her partner simply to know that she's seen some bad things, done some things she isn't particularly proud of, and might be forced to do them again to protect everything she holds dear. It's a difficult line to walk (as evidenced by how many broken marriages there are in the military), but there are some details someone like Miranda should leave out if she really loves her partner.

As for the extra burden, it's one of the personal costs of the job. Using your partner as an emotional dumping ground for all the stresses of your job is an excellent way to destroy any relationship. Working in the kind of field Miranda does makes this doubly true. Miranda undoubtedly has some ghosts but some of them will always haunt her, whether she dumps on her partner or not.

This is an another reason why Shep is more suitable for Miri than Chuck... He understands, because he is similar to her.

[snfonseka]

Khirzask wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

Isn't that lying? So you are saying that Miri need to lie to the person who she fall in love and hide her true self from that person. For how long? Isn't that an extra burden for her? I don't think that love will be succesful.......

Miranda doesn't need to tell every detail to her partner for them to understand what she's been through and who she is. It should be enough for her partner simply to know that she's seen some bad things, done some things she isn't particularly proud of, and might be forced to do them again to protect everything she holds dear. It's a difficult line to walk (as evidenced by how many broken marriages there are in the military), but there are some details someone like Miranda should leave out if she really loves her partner........

Agreed - lying implies that a person is conjuring new untruthful information. Simply witholding details isn't devious.......

"A lie is a type of deception  in the form of an untruthful statement, especially with the intention to deceive others, often with the further intention to maintain a secret or reputation, protect someone's feelings or to avoid a punishment or repercussion for one's actions."

[Elyvern]

fongiel24 wrote...

I'm not sure about this. Ignorance really is bliss and even if Miranda told someone close to her what she does, I think she might withold some of the more gristly details. Seeing too much of the truth could eventually skew someone's perspective, make them colder and more callous than they might otherwise have been. I don't think someone can go through what Miranda has gone through or see what she's seen over the course of her employment by Cerberus and remain unaffected.

That's why I think Miranda's natural impulse would be to actually withold some of her nightmares from someone she loves (whether that's a romantic relationship or a platonic one).

Personally, I cannot reconcile with the idea that Miri would be able to hide something so big so long from someone she's emotionally engaged with. Her modus operandi, which is very apparently throughout the game, is to be entirely honest and blunt to the point of giving offense, even when not saying what she thinks or feels would be a far better option. Never once has she swerved from that course; from telling Shepard she wants to implant a control chip on him, to her confrontation with Jack. If she has to hide something momentuous from a close one, she wouldn't be able to do it for long, nor would she care to, I suspect. In the case of Oriana, like Ieldra has said, they don't see each other that often, so it's easy to maintain the illusion, but it would be impossible with someone she interacts on a daily basis.

Modifié par Elyvern, 23 août 2010 - 09:03 .

[snfonseka]

Elyvern wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

I'm not sure about this. Ignorance really is bliss and even if Miranda told someone close to her what she does, I think she might withold some of the more gristly details. Seeing too much of the truth could eventually skew someone's perspective, make them colder and more callous than they might otherwise have been. I don't think someone can go through what Miranda has gone through or see what she's seen over the course of her employment by Cerberus and remain unaffected.

That's why I think Miranda's natural impulse would be to actually withold some of her nightmares from someone she loves (whether that's a romantic relationship or a platonic one).

Personally, I cannot reconcile with the idea that Miri would be able to hide something so big so long from someone she's emotionally engaged with. Her modus operandi, which is very apparently throughout the game, is to be entirely honest and blunt to the point of giving offense, even when not saying what she thinks or feels would be a far better option. Never once has she swerved from that course; from telling Shepard she wants to implant a control chip on him, to her confrontation with Jack. If she has to hide something momentuous from a close one, she wouldn't be able to do it for long, nor would she care to, I suspect. In the case of Oriana, like Ieldra has said, they don't see each other that often, so it's easy to maintain the illusion, but it would be impossible with someone she interacts on a daily basis.

^This.

[fongiel24]

Khirzask wrote...

But, as just about every story has told us, it never lasts. Like so many things. It's sweet for a while, maybe even adventurous and dangerous to the point of being romantic, but it never lasts. That's why relationships are so bittersweet for people who bear the types of burdens that Miranda does; they come along so incredebly rarely, and yet that perfect someone can never escape being in real danger.

This is why as much as I want Miranda to have a happy ending, I suspect this might not be possible. Someone who's seen as much as Miranda has will never be able to sleep comfortably at night, knowing that all the things that go bump in the night are very real. People like Miranda give up the things everybody else gets to take for granted so that everyone else can continue to live in a state of ignorant bliss. I suspect that's why Miranda is so reluctant to talk to Oriana.

snfonseka wrote...

This is an another reason why Shep is more suitable for Miri than Chuck... He understands, because he is similar to her.

I think this could be both a good and a bad thing. Shepard has seen many of the same things Miranda has so he understands in a way that somebody else never could but... he's seen many of the same things Miranda has so he also likely shares many of the same nightmares. Neither can really serve as a source of stability for the other.

Every time one of them goes on a mission, the other is painfully aware of the dangers their partner will face and is viscerally aware that they might never see each other again. This in itself would be a source of considerable stress on their relationship.

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

And having to lie to him all the time? No. I think Miranda would want to tell him, and wouldn't respect someone who couldn't deal with the truth. Adoration based on a lie wouldn't sit well with her at all. It's all right with someone like Oriana who she doesn't see that often, but to live it, every day? Definitely not.

Ugh... You're probably right, Ieldra. You just destroyed my Miranda perfect world fairy tale. I'm still wondering whether Miranda could ever be with a guy (or gal) who isn't involved in the cloak-and-dagger world though. I don't think being able to fight well is necessarily a prerequisite to getting Miranda's attention.

Being able to fight, no. But I do think her SO must be able to deal with the fact that her job does occasionally involve killing, among other things. While I don't think she absolutely needs someone in the "cloak-and-dagger world", it's more likely that things will go that way. Above everything, her SO must measure up to her own considerable standards, must be and do something worthy of respect, because only then she'll give love a chance.  

BTW, I think innocence is overrated. Either you're a child, you're too dumb to see the truth, or you're willingly closing your eyes against it. You may love such a person, but you won't respect him or her. No basis for a relationship, I say. Especially for someone like Miranda.

I'm not sure about this. Ignorance really is bliss and even if Miranda told someone close to her what she does, I think she might withold some of the more gristly details. Seeing too much of the truth could eventually skew someone's perspective, make them colder and more callous than they might otherwise have been. I don't think someone can go through what Miranda has gone through or see what she's seen over the course of her employment by Cerberus and remain unaffected.

I've never believed in this old adage. Not like this, where "you're better off remaining ignorant" is implied. If you know the truth, you inevitably lose respect for those who could know, but won't, who choose to live in what is, from your point of view, a delusion. I think Miranda's SO would need the attitude "You know you can tell me everything. I can deal with it.", and the mental and emotional fortitude to actually deal with it should she choose to tell him. She would need to be sure about that. Then, yes, she'd probably choose to censor the facts a bit.

Elyvern wrote...
Her modus operandi, which is very apparently throughout the game, is to be entirely honest and blunt to the point of giving offense, even when not saying what she thinks or feels would be a far better option. Never once has she swerved from that course; from telling Shepard she wants to implant a control chip on him, to her confrontation with Jack. If she  has to hide something momentuous from a close one, she wouldn't be able to do it for long, nor would she care to, I suspect.

Very much this. Miranda may withhold things out of protectiveness, but it's not her natural impulse. And what's a relationship worth where you can't be what you are but must always pretend?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 août 2010 - 09:25 .

[snfonseka]

fongiel24 wrote...

This is why as much as I want Miranda to have a happy ending, I suspect this might not be possible. Someone who's seen as much as Miranda has will never be able to sleep comfortably at night, knowing that all the things that go bump in the night are very real. People like Miranda give up the things everybody else gets to take for granted so that everyone else can continue to live in a state of ignorant bliss. I suspect that's why Miranda is so reluctant to talk to Oriana.

Isn't this the reason we like Miranda? Well.... at least I like her because of this... Because of the inner strength of the character.....