15168 réponses à ce sujet

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Admittedly it has taken me some up to come up with a satisfying character concept for Shepard. But I have one. Mostly, it's based on the assumption that most of his public persona is a mask. Like in my fanfic (the one linked in the OP), he acts the hard-ass Renegade at times, but it tears him up inside to see an innocent suffer. So there's no contradiction between the man who leaves Jacob's father to the mercy of his erstwhile victims and the man who heals the sick Batarian on Omega, between the man who uses the Renegade responses at Grunt's trial (it's an act, he knows krogan culture) and the man who convinces Jack not to kill Aresh on Pragia. No one who isn't really close to him ever sees his thoughtful side, and there are times when he comments his own actions in his mind with "Am I really doing this?". This way, I can overlook most of his steamrolling, and I'm much more forgiving of his lack of subtlely (which is, after all, only the surface) than of his cheesy lines in the romance (which are supposed to show the real man).

Hmm... I'm a little hesitant to post this as it's a big wall of text that's not entirely Miranda-related but I'll give it a shot.

I took the same approach as Ieldra in explaining and rationalizing Shepard's somewhat Mary Sue-ish (Gary Stu?) image. I suspect my Shepard is keeping up the facade to hide something different than Ieldra's is though. Underneath the facade, my Shepard isn't much of a hero at all.

Relating this back to the discussion a few pages back, my Shepard has seen and done things that haunt him and have shaken his belief system to its very core. He's been changed. He's seen too many friends die and been forced to make too many sacrifices for him to ever be "normal" again. While he may have been idealistic at one time, all that's left of that man is his quest to stop the Reapers. He pursues it relentlessly because he sees it as a kind of atonement for past sins (if he can save the galaxy, maybe that will justify or balance out all his past deeds) but also because he fears what he will become without a purpose to drive him.

In terms of alignment, most of his actions are Renegade but he makes those decisions out of what he believes to be necessity, not callousness. Working for Cerberus and with Miranda is both easy and difficult for him. Easy because considering the cost of failure in his quest to stop the Reapers, he also has somewhat of a results-at-all-costs outlook. Difficult because he is all too aware of the costs, both to himself and others, that such an approach requires.

The reason I posted so much about the role of delusion in preserving sanity is I'm working through the dynamic of the relationship between my Shepard and Miranda. Due to the effect his experiences have had on him, he often asks himself whether ignorance really would be bliss. He may appear formidable on the outside, but underneath the shell in many ways he's not as strong as Miranda in his convictions. Where Miranda may question her worth and her accomplishments, Shepard's experiences have made him question his beliefs about what is "right" and "good" in the universe.

Edit: Finally read the fic you've got linked in the OP, Ieldra. You did an excellent job of portraying some of the hard choices Shepard and Miranda may be forced to make, given the realities of their mission. I thought Miranda's reluctance to just allow herself to escape into Shepard's arms was very realistic and IC.

Modifié par fongiel24, 24 août 2010 - 12:15 .

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

My problem is if I play Shepard as close to my heart as possible, he'd end up like 65 paragon/35 renegade which makes it impossible to resolve miri/jack, tali/legion's confrontations. Gibbed to the rescue, thankfully.

Then you probably pick a lot of neutral choices. It's not hard to get 95/65.
As for Miranda/Jack: do it early enough, and it'll be enough. recruit Jack just after Mordin, then both Miranda's and Jack's loyalty missions will come up early. Do N7 missions to trigger them instead of recruitment missions, and the needed P/R score won't rise to ruin your day in the meantime. Use my Mass Effect Persuasion Guide for the general principle and more details. Legion/Tali is difficult, though, because it's by design one of the latest decisions in the game. No way around that but cheating.

Yes, that's what happens when I try to play it close to the heart, and base on word cues, choose what I feel would be appropriate to my Shepard's character, as opposed to "I see a paragon-esque and neutral option, I should choose paragon for points." Or when I'm aiming to get certain cut scenes (like Mordin's hilarious attempt to slow down his speech) instead of the usual ones I keep going for.

Also, a big thanks to everyone who gave me tips on how to capture screenshots!

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...
The reason I posted so much about the role of delusion in preserving sanity is I'm working through the dynamic of the relationship between my Shepard and Miranda. Due to the effect his experiences have had on him, he often asks himself whether ignorance really would be bliss. He may appear formidable on the outside, but underneath the shell in many ways he's not as strong as Miranda in his convictions. Where Miranda may question her worth and her accomplishments, Shepard's experiences have made him question his beliefs about what is "right" and "good" in the universe.

Not so OT, since it relates to how our Shepards can reasonably have a relationship with Miranda.

Here's my version:
The difference between your Shepard and mine is that mine doesn't have convictions he doesn't already believe to be non-universal and bound up in the biology and psychology of what he is as a member of the human species. He does what he does not out of duty, but out of a sense of personal challenge, and because he believes that humanity's future can be assured - proven by the only possible measuring stick: survival and advancement to greater understanding and power as a species. Yes, that's compatible with Cerberus ideology, but Cyrus Shepard does also have empathy, and that limits what he's prepared to do if he's not absolutely convinced it's essential for survival. He would abandon his cause the moment he thinks humanity not worthy of his efforts, for instance by continuing to stick its collective head into the sand (That's the reason why I'm sometimes playing with a Cerberus ending to ME3 in my mind - I'm afraid the Paragon ending will make time turn back and make people go back to their comfortable delusions, and all the epic conflict will have had no meaning).

As for Miranda: Cyrus Shepard is drawn to her, among other things, because he feels that Miranda is something of a soulmate, reluctant as he would be to use that term. Apart from that, Miranda is important to him because she makes him believe in humanity. Even were he not in love with her, her very existence proves, to him, that it's all worth it in several different ways. She's not the only one with such a role, but the most important.

[LuxDragon]

@ Yankee:



You mind posting what changes you made to C.ini? I like what you did.

[jtav]

Believe it or not, I do have a character concept for one of my Shepards that romanced Miranda.

Kyle lost his whole family on Mindoir and joined the Alliance to make sure something like that never happened again. The moniker "Butcher of Torfan" really bothers him. Command said taking the base was necessary, so he took it. The loss of his men weighs heavily on him. He hates batarians, but is generally well disposed toward other species. He's mostly Paragon during ME, but he does have a pragmatic streak. He let Helena go, and sold the data to the Shadow Broker because he thought their assistance might be useful later. Wrex died on Virmire after the discussion got a little heated and Ashley killed him. It's the great regret of his life because he just knows he could have made Wrex see reason. (His death was actually an accident. I chose the wrong option by mistake but decided to run with it) He was romancing Ashley, but left her to die because the bomb had to go off no matter what. Left the Council to die because he dares not divert forces from Sovereign. ME2s all human Council was a shock and felt like a betrayal.

In Miranda, he recognizes someone who has also had to make hard choices for the greater good and who bears some of the same scars as he does. He actually doesn't find her that physically attractive except for her remarkable eyes and hair, but her intelligence and dedication draws him to her. He let her shoot Niket -- her choice -- but nudged her to speak to Oriana because somebody in the galaxy deserved a happy family situation. He's terrified of losing her. This is a suicide mission, and the last time he led one there was a 75% casualty rate. Not to mention he lost his last girlfriend to the Reapers. He refused to promise her that he wouldn't die, but he'd rather make her promise him. He destroyed the base because he doesn't trust TIM and has noticed that Cerberus has a truly abysmal track record. Miranda resigning floored him a little. Every single one of his squad and crew survived, much to his amazement. I think maybe he can let some of his personal demons go now and he and Miranda have a decent chance for a happy ending.

And, Ieldra, my dislike of the romance has more to do with the fact that I don't like how it was written than my dislike of Shepard. I can, with a decent one, as the above will show. I just resent having to mentally create a new version just so I don't feel like strangling both of them. After a certain point, I just want to throw up my hands and say "To hell with it, I'm going back to the drell." If I have to make up an entirely new romance to enjoy the idea, then I prefer to just go all the way and pair with someone else.

Modifié par jtav, 24 août 2010 - 03:19 .

[Caihn]

LuxDragon wrote...

@ Yankee:

You mind posting what changes you made to C.ini? I like what you did.

Now, I have the original coalesced.ini. I prefer not edit it anymore, I made the changes in gamersettings.ini (it's in the user/mydocument/bioware/me2/biogame/config)

In [SystemSettings] I edit or add these lines :

QualityBloom=True
FilmGrain=False
MotionBlur=True
DynamicShadows=False
LightEnvironmentShadows=True
MaxCharacterCinematicLightingPasses=3
EnableLightEnvSHLights=True
MaxAnisotropy=16
BorderlessWindow=False
DisableAudio=False
DepthOfField=False
EnableHighPolyChars=True
MaxAnisotropy=16
TEXTUREGROUP_Character_2048=(MinLODSize=1024,MaxLODSize=2048,LODBias=-1)
TEXTUREGROUP_Environment_2048=(MinLODSize=1024,MaxLODSize=2048,LODBias=-1)
MinShadowResolution=64
MaxShadowResolution=2048
DynamicLights=True
ShadowFilterQualityBias=2
Trilinear=TRUE
ModShadowFadeDistanceExponent=0.200000
 
With nhancer I use AA 16xS, Anisotropic filter 16x, and 080100C5: Unreal Engine 3 compatibility AA. 

(caution ! I recommend a powerful graphic card like nvidia series 400, and 4gb RAM minimum) 

If you want to watch graphic quality, I've just uploaded a full HD video of my main Shepard end game :

Modifié par Yannkee, 24 août 2010 - 04:49 .

[Jebel Krong]

fongiel24 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Admittedly it has taken me some up to come up with a satisfying character concept for Shepard. But I have one. Mostly, it's based on the assumption that most of his public persona is a mask. Like in my fanfic (the one linked in the OP), he acts the hard-ass Renegade at times, but it tears him up inside to see an innocent suffer. So there's no contradiction between the man who leaves Jacob's father to the mercy of his erstwhile victims and the man who heals the sick Batarian on Omega, between the man who uses the Renegade responses at Grunt's trial (it's an act, he knows krogan culture) and the man who convinces Jack not to kill Aresh on Pragia. No one who isn't really close to him ever sees his thoughtful side, and there are times when he comments his own actions in his mind with "Am I really doing this?". This way, I can overlook most of his steamrolling, and I'm much more forgiving of his lack of subtlely (which is, after all, only the surface) than of his cheesy lines in the romance (which are supposed to show the real man).

Hmm... I'm a little hesitant to post this as it's a big wall of text that's not entirely Miranda-related but I'll give it a shot.

I took the same approach as Ieldra in explaining and rationalizing Shepard's somewhat Mary Sue-ish (Gary Stu?) image. I suspect my Shepard is keeping up the facade to hide something different than Ieldra's is though. Underneath the facade, my Shepard isn't much of a hero at all.

Relating this back to the discussion a few pages back, my Shepard has seen and done things that haunt him and have shaken his belief system to its very core. He's been changed. He's seen too many friends die and been forced to make too many sacrifices for him to ever be "normal" again. While he may have been idealistic at one time, all that's left of that man is his quest to stop the Reapers. He pursues it relentlessly because he sees it as a kind of atonement for past sins (if he can save the galaxy, maybe that will justify or balance out all his past deeds) but also because he fears what he will become without a purpose to drive him.

In terms of alignment, most of his actions are Renegade but he makes those decisions out of what he believes to be necessity, not callousness. Working for Cerberus and with Miranda is both easy and difficult for him. Easy because considering the cost of failure in his quest to stop the Reapers, he also has somewhat of a results-at-all-costs outlook. Difficult because he is all too aware of the costs, both to himself and others, that such an approach requires.

The reason I posted so much about the role of delusion in preserving sanity is I'm working through the dynamic of the relationship between my Shepard and Miranda. Due to the effect his experiences have had on him, he often asks himself whether ignorance really would be bliss. He may appear formidable on the outside, but underneath the shell in many ways he's not as strong as Miranda in his convictions. Where Miranda may question her worth and her accomplishments, Shepard's experiences have made him question his beliefs about what is "right" and "good" in the universe.

my shep doesn't have a 'renegade mask', he simply is renegade (but not simply so) - growing up on the streets of earth, dreaming of his (and humanity's) future in space, whilst grubbing in the slums, eking a living by committing petty and then not-so-petty crimes, enlisting and seeing his future in the flesh & subsequently having to face up to the ugly truth of reality and risk life and limb to almost single-handedly repel the batarian slaver attack on elysium, forged him into a no-nonsense warrior, almost completely self-reliant because he had to be (i particularly think of my shep as more antihero sometimes). the renegade side partly came out because of natural affinity but also a realisation of the need to 'fight fire with fire' - only someone not afraid to do to the enemy what they would do to you could protect places like elysium (and, eventually, the galaxy); and sometimes you have to sacrifice innocent people in order to save more in the long run - it's not easy but it has to be done.  this sharpening of the edges started early because of his background, but continued because of escalating events - spectre indoctrination and hunting saren was merely a continuation along the path, but important steps because i don't think a paragon would have the resolution to actually take care of saren, under most circumstances (the game doesn't give you a choice). the relative impermanence of death (not having had time to really dwell on it), before being thrust back into the centre of things, and once again having to do all the 'heavy lifting' personally ("I guess i'm on my own. again" to the council) has left my shep with a bitter/sarcastic edge, but no lack of compassion for those in need, or those he is close to; but relative impatience for bureaucracy and a hatred of, especially, those who prey on the weak, and - especially - the universe's ultra-evils. hence being a spectre he's not afraid to use the authority to exact appropriate retribution where he sees fit (and that equates to shooting a whole lot of people). however the idealism of youth is still there, at least in part (though no more than in miranda): the future of humanity, being a spectre and part of the galactic council is still an important part of his character make-up, hence being willing to save the council during sovereign's attack, against the odds, and accepting their offer to re-join in me2.

i've mentioned before that i play a version of myself that i believe is appropriate to the situation - a bit vic mackey, but without as much self-interest i guess.

miranda is a soulmate for my shep because she balances the right mix of good/bad and is brilliant enough - in her own way - to be his equal. in some ways they are opposites - background for example, but are good examples of opposites attracting and being compatible. crucially my shep is world-wise enough to understand the more renegade aspects of miranda's character, and - to some extent - cerberus', even if if he would never agree with some of their actions, and is certainly against their (not her) xenophobia. likewise, miranda sees and understands the renegade aspects of shepards character ('a spectre not afraid to step outside of the rules'), he might have had little formal education - other than that in the military - but shep is definitely smart, and miranda is certainly equal there, though as unsubtle sometimes as the game makes him out to be, overall for all their differences they are quite alike - a match made in heaven, if you will.

a little bit cheesy at the end, i know... 

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 24 août 2010 - 08:22 .

[Ieldra]

@JK:

A little cheese can be excused where Miranda is the topic - as long as it's not in the game. If I had tried to create a character with the sole purpose of being the perfect LI for a male protagonist in an SF rpg I was playing, the result wouldn't have been very different from Miranda. It's as if she was made to my specifications.



And the mask I mentioned is not that he's Renegade, but that he's unsubtle and all action, and doesn't seem to have a thoughtful side.

[jtav]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@JK:
A little cheese can be excused where Miranda is the topic - as long as it's not in the game. If I had tried to create a character with the sole purpose of being the perfect LI for a male protagonist in an SF rpg I was playing, the result wouldn't have been very different from Miranda. It's as if she was made to my specifications.

And the mask I mentioned is not that he's Renegade, but that he's unsubtle and all action, and doesn't seem to have a thoughtful side.

I'll agree, though not in the sense you mean. I love hypercompetent female characters who don't need rescue. I suspect I would horrify you if I told you how damaged I thought Miranda was, but she never lets her personal problems affect her professional life. I love that kind of character.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

@JK:
A little cheese can be excused where Miranda is the topic - as long as it's not in the game. If I had tried to create a character with the sole purpose of being the perfect LI for a male protagonist in an SF rpg I was playing, the result wouldn't have been very different from Miranda. It's as if she was made to my specifications.

And the mask I mentioned is not that he's Renegade, but that he's unsubtle and all action, and doesn't seem to have a thoughtful side.

I'll agree, though not in the sense you mean. I love hypercompetent female characters who don't need rescue. I suspect I would horrify you if I told you how damaged I thought Miranda was, but she never lets her personal problems affect her professional life. I love that kind of character.

I don't doubt I'd find your interpretation a stretch. But the beauty of it is that much of what's going on in her mind is open to interpretation. That's been my objection to IanPolaris' claims: not that he made them, but that he presented them as The Truth.

[jtav]

Amen. That's one reason I haven't talked about it much, though you could probably piece together my thoughts well enough by now.

[Prudii Aden]

Just to add to the collection of Shep's - here's mine.
A'den grew up a service brat, moving from ship to ship, place to place with his parents, he always knew he was going to sign up with the Alliance - family tradition of service, and so on. The only constants in his life was travel (a lot) and his family. As far as he was concerned, there were four categories of people in the world - 1)family, 2)friends, 3)everyone not in 1,2 & 4 and 4)enemies. Moving up the list towards family status was ridiculously difficult, but going down was conversely very easy. If he could (or did) trust you and you kept faith with him, then you were on your way up. If you broke faith or his trust, things got complicated. In short, you did right by him, he did right by you, and if you didn't, then he was more than happy to space the rulebook
.
He used to be a lot more idealistic, but as he grew up (and after he joined the Alliance) he became more pragmatic and more of the viewpoint that there are people in the world who won't listen to reason, and someone has to be willing to do bad things to them so that others don't have to. To be the mailed fist in the velvet glove. This belief was only reinforced when the batarians struck Elysium. He's fully convinced that if word of what he did to save Elysium ever got out, he'd end up with a life sentence in jail, if he's lucky. He'd probably be very conflicted if he found out that a lot of what he did during the very nasty guerilla campaign he waged against the pirates became part of the Alliances Insurgency/Counterinsurgency training manual. It was one of a literal handful of times he spaced the rulebook and he still has nightmares about it.

The mission against Saren and his induction into the Spectres added even more weight to this belief. He enjoyed working with Wrex, and especially after helping him out with his family armour and then after Virmire, considers him a close friend. He saved the Council because they (albeit reluctantly) showed faith in him, so by saving them, he kept faith with them. Post ME2, he feels betrayed by them - to the extent that the only reason why he'd save them if he ends up having to make the choice again is if Councilor Anderson is with them. He believes Cerberus has some of the right ideas, but they're going about it in entirely the wrong way, and as an organisation are squarely sat right on the border between group 3 and group 4.

With Miranda, he feels he's met a kindred spirit (soulmate is so cliche). She's more pragmatic than he is, but the thing that initially caught his attention (beside the fact that she's drop dead gorgeous) was that she was honest with him, right from the get go. That meant he was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. Things progressed inevitably from there, but her asking him for help with her sister, and then seeing the look on her face just after she'd had a talk with Oriana pretty much squashed any internal dissenting voices. He understands why she joined Cerberus, and has no issue with it. He agrees with her views for Cerberus, and was pleasantly surprised when she told TIM where he could stick it, then handed him the timer. In many ways, they are two sides of the same coin.

Miranda knows where she stands with A'den. He might be more idealistic than she is, but he's not going to object if she has to do something nasty. She has his trust, and she knows he won't abuse her trust. That, above all, is what she treasures the most. Plus, it amuses her no end to find that comparatively speaking, she's the velvet glove to his mailed fist.

[Caihn]

It would be great if Miri fans tell what kind of alternate outfit they wish for Miranda in the official Bioware thread.
I don't want want that Bioware think the fans want bikini or blond hair. 

Modifié par Yannkee, 24 août 2010 - 05:09 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Amen. That's one reason I haven't talked about it much, though you could probably piece together my thoughts well enough by now.

You've told it at times: I gather you'd agree with IanPolaris about the level and depth of her personal self-esteem problems, while agreeing with me that whatever her self-esteem problems are, they don't affect her professional competence much. Likely we are also agreed that the latter is admirable. MOre speculatively: perhaps you think that her detachment is a result of her insecurity (do you?), while I think it's a natural trait. 

Regarding the XO thread, I was mainly concerned with the claim that Miranda wants to stand in the limelight, and that she'd risk the mission to do so. Because (1) I get the opposite impression, namely that she wants to avoid the limelight - a few months ago I wrote she has no vanity, and I still think so, and (2) that would make her both unprofessional and stupid (she'd risk her own life, too), and she is neither.

[PTSTormgarde]

Yannkee wrote...

It would be great if Miri fans tell what kind of alternate outfit they wish for Miranda in the official Bioware thread.
I don't want want that Bioware think the fans want bikini or blond hair. 

I already did, civillian-like clothing (obviously reinforced with a layer of armor and kinetic shields). Some of the recruitment missions (to my opinion) need discretion (Illium) so a perfect reason for civillian clothing.

Modifié par PTSTormgarde, 24 août 2010 - 05:49 .

[jtav]

I think the detachment is natural, though her life experience and insecurity has increased the degree. She was always an introvert, but would have naturally been freer with her affections and more inclined to trust. Other than that, you've got it. And I agree that she isn't vain. She's not in this for glory.

[Caihn]

PTSTormgarde wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

It would be great if Miri fans tell what kind of alternate outfit they wish for Miranda in the official Bioware thread.
I don't want want that Bioware think the fans want bikini or blond hair. 

I already did, civillian-like clothing (obviously reinforced with a layer of armor and kinetic shields). Some of the recruitment missions (to my opinion) need discretion (Illium) so a perfect reason for civillian clothing.

Yeah I've seen your post, thanks.
I would be disappointed if Bioware give us a lighter outfit for Miranda. And I hope they won't take seriously this stupid idea of blond hair.

edit :
Thank you Ieldra also for your post.
I completely agree with you.

Modifié par Yannkee, 24 août 2010 - 05:58 .

[jtav]

I'd like her to have a modified version of an asari commando uniform or her casual outfit from Redemption.

[PTSTormgarde]

jtav wrote...

I'd like her to have a modified version of an asari commando uniform or her casual outfit from Redemption.

This? Seems nice.

Modifié par PTSTormgarde, 24 août 2010 - 06:38 .

[jtav]

That's the one. For certain places where wearing the uniform would be stupid and post-game if she resigns.

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Regarding the XO thread, I was mainly concerned with the claim that Miranda wants to stand in the limelight, and that she'd risk the mission to do so. Because (1) I get the opposite impression, namely that she wants to avoid the limelight - a few months ago I wrote she has no vanity, and I still think so, and (2) that would make her both unprofessional and stupid (she'd risk her own life, too), and she is neither.

The idea that Miranda does anything out of vanity is absurd. Her actions are almost always driven by what she feels ie necessary to accomplish the task at hand. That example of her brusque welcome to Jack on the Normandy that Polaris and some of the others kept referring to isn't an example of her letting a personal dislike get in the way of doing her job, it's an expression of Miranda having no time for the nonsense of babying Jack.

Not all soldiers can be motivated with positive reinforcement and reason. Some are actually headcases that need a heavy hand to bring them discipline and keep them in line. Whether Jack truly qualifies as one of the latter is open for debate, but Miranda clearly believes she belongs to this category and I believe her subsequent actions show this.

However, Miranda's refusal to allow vanity to affect her professionalism doesn't mean she isn't affected by pride. Perversely, I think she takes great pride in her accomplishments but isn't willing to take credit for them. She draws self-worth but not self-esteem from her actions. Being so good at what she does helps her justify her existence but she doesn't feel it's a reflection of any of the positive character traits that she developed and possesses. She'll take offense at having her accomplishments belittled because you're attacking her raison d'etre. It's a different kind of insecurity than that which some of her critics want to accuse her of.

Modifié par fongiel24, 24 août 2010 - 07:37 .

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

@JK:
A little cheese can be excused where Miranda is the topic - as long as it's not in the game. If I had tried to create a character with the sole purpose of being the perfect LI for a male protagonist in an SF rpg I was playing, the result wouldn't have been very different from Miranda. It's as if she was made to my specifications.

And the mask I mentioned is not that he's Renegade, but that he's unsubtle and all action, and doesn't seem to have a thoughtful side.

ha! yes i guess so.... miranda is about as perfect a representation of a fully-functioning and 3-dimensional character - let alone love interest - i have seen in any media.

also nice work prudii aden, i have enjoyed all these 'shepards' - the amount of thought that goes into each one is a testament to bioware and it's audiences.

(i reworked my statement a little after some consideration to expand on a few things, too).

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 24 août 2010 - 08:05 .

[Gundar3]

fongiel24 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Regarding the XO thread, I was mainly concerned with the claim that Miranda wants to stand in the limelight, and that she'd risk the mission to do so. Because (1) I get the opposite impression, namely that she wants to avoid the limelight - a few months ago I wrote she has no vanity, and I still think so, and (2) that would make her both unprofessional and stupid (she'd risk her own life, too), and she is neither.

The idea that Miranda does anything out of vanity is absurd. Her actions are almost always driven by what she feels ie necessary to accomplish the task at hand. That example of her brusque welcome to Jack on the Normandy that Polaris and some of the others kept referring to isn't an example of her letting a personal dislike get in the way of doing her job, it's an expression of Miranda having no time for the nonsense of babying Jack.

Not all soldiers can be motivated with positive reinforcement and reason. Some are actually headcases that need a heavy hand to bring them discipline and keep them in line. Whether Jack truly qualifies as one of the latter is open for debate, but Miranda clearly believes she belongs to this category and I believe her subsequent actions show this.

However, Miranda's refusal to allow vanity to affect her professionalism doesn't mean she isn't affected by pride. Perversely, I think she takes great pride in her accomplishments but isn't willing to take credit for them. She draws self-worth but not self-esteem from her actions. Being so good at what she does helps her justify her existence but she doesn't feel it's a reflection of any of the positive character traits that she developed and possesses. She'll take offense at having her accomplishments belittled because you're attacking her raison d'etre. It's a different kind of insecurity than that which some of her critics want to accuse her of.

I think this is very true. 

I still find it amazing how easily people dismiss Miranda.  Its funny how probably the number one thing people want to see in AP2 is Miranda in armor bcause Im fairly certain its bcause they couldnt take the character seriously, which is their own flaw, not the characters.  I mean sure, I suppot Miranda in some cool armor but not because I dislike what she already wears.  If Bioware wants to stylize the outfit of any character they are more than welcome to do so.  It is their universe.

Im not around often and just wanted to vent. thanks!

[tommyt_1994]

Prudii Aden wrote...

Just to add to the collection of Shep's - here's mine.
A'den grew up a service brat, moving from ship to ship, place to place with his parents, he always knew he was going to sign up with the Alliance - family tradition of service, and so on. The only constants in his life was travel (a lot) and his family. As far as he was concerned, there were four categories of people in the world - 1)family, 2)friends, 3)everyone not in 1,2 & 4 and 4)enemies. Moving up the list towards family status was ridiculously difficult, but going down was conversely very easy. If he could (or did) trust you and you kept faith with him, then you were on your way up. If you broke faith or his trust, things got complicated. In short, you did right by him, he did right by you, and if you didn't, then he was more than happy to space the rulebook
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He used to be a lot more idealistic, but as he grew up (and after he joined the Alliance) he became more pragmatic and more of the viewpoint that there are people in the world who won't listen to reason, and someone has to be willing to do bad things to them so that others don't have to. To be the mailed fist in the velvet glove. This belief was only reinforced when the batarians struck Elysium. He's fully convinced that if word of what he did to save Elysium ever got out, he'd end up with a life sentence in jail, if he's lucky. He'd probably be very conflicted if he found out that a lot of what he did during the very nasty guerilla campaign he waged against the pirates became part of the Alliances Insurgency/Counterinsurgency training manual. It was one of a literal handful of times he spaced the rulebook and he still has nightmares about it.

The mission against Saren and his induction into the Spectres added even more weight to this belief. He enjoyed working with Wrex, and especially after helping him out with his family armour and then after Virmire, considers him a close friend. He saved the Council because they (albeit reluctantly) showed faith in him, so by saving them, he kept faith with them. Post ME2, he feels betrayed by them - to the extent that the only reason why he'd save them if he ends up having to make the choice again is if Councilor Anderson is with them. He believes Cerberus has some of the right ideas, but they're going about it in entirely the wrong way, and as an organisation are squarely sat right on the border between group 3 and group 4.

With Miranda, he feels he's met a kindred spirit (soulmate is so cliche). She's more pragmatic than he is, but the thing that initially caught his attention (beside the fact that she's drop dead gorgeous) was that she was honest with him, right from the get go. That meant he was willing to give her the benefit of the doubt. Things progressed inevitably from there, but her asking him for help with her sister, and then seeing the look on her face just after she'd had a talk with Oriana pretty much squashed any internal dissenting voices. He understands why she joined Cerberus, and has no issue with it. He agrees with her views for Cerberus, and was pleasantly surprised when she told TIM where he could stick it, then handed him the timer. In many ways, they are two sides of the same coin.

Miranda knows where she stands with A'den. He might be more idealistic than she is, but he's not going to object if she has to do something nasty. She has his trust, and she knows he won't abuse her trust. That, above all, is what she treasures the most. Plus, it amuses her no end to find that comparatively speaking, she's the velvet glove to his mailed fist.

Did I invade your mind with mine, log onto your forum account, and type out my Shepard's character, personality, why his personality was the way it was, and his feelings towards Miranda and post it here? . I haven't given my Shepards much in-depth thought as you have, but our Shepards are almost identical

Modifié par tommyt_1994, 24 août 2010 - 08:05 .

[jtav]

I assure you I despise her default outfit and appreciate her character despite it. Bioware miscaculated severely. I wish they'd tone down the sexualization.