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Miranda Lawson - our favorite woman in the galaxy (III)


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#4576
Caihn

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fongiel24 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...
Even if we drop the reference to her body, the reference to Miranda's mind can still be interpreted as referring to something bequeathed to her by her father, and thus not something she can take credit for.


Yeah, he gave you gifts, but you can be proud of what you've done with them.

Shepard want to show Miranda that he admires her, not because she has genetic superior abilities, but because of what she has done with them.


Yeah, and my point is that his complimenting her mind can be interpreted as having nothing to do with anything she's done.


It's not how I interpret this. And considering what Shepard says after, I don't understand how it could be interpreted that way.

#4577
jtav

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Her body and mind were both given to her by her father, so the compliment falls a bit flat. Only a bit.

#4578
Caihn

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If you want someone to be proud of something, you're not going to compliment him/her on something else.

He wants Miri to be proud of what she has done with her abilities, but he knows she won't, until she stops considering them only as her father's gift.

#4579
fongiel24

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Yannkee wrote...

It's not how I interpret this. And considering what Shepard says after, I don't understand how it could be interpreted that way.


I just think that conversation could have done without the reference to Miranda's body and mind because they're not really what make her unique. Given the way she was created, that's doubly true because every one of Miranda's "sisters" would share the same body and mind.

Edit:

Yannkee wrote...

If you want someone to be proud of something, you're not going to compliment him/her on something else.
He
wants Miri to be proud of what she has done with her abilities, but he
knows she won't, until she stops considering them only as her father's
gift.


The problem is that Miranda's body and mind (if we're talking about her tremendous intelligence and not the way in which she has developed it) really are just her father's gifts. Shepard is saying he admires Miranda for things she had no control over. It seems strangely out of place in a conversation where he's trying to get her to take pride in things she does have control over - everything she accomplished with her gifts and her unique personality and drive that allowed her to escape her father's shadow.

jtav wrote...

Permission to indulge in my sentimental side and say what I would have said?


I'd like to hear an alternative.

Modifié par fongiel24, 24 août 2010 - 11:01 .


#4580
jtav

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"Yes, you're hot. Yes, you're brilliant. Funny thing, though. I was propositioned by women who are more beautiful and brilliant than you after I stopped Saren. I didn't want any of them. Ever consider that the best thing about you--the reason I'm making an ass of myself right now--has nothing to do with your genes?"

#4581
fongiel24

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jtav wrote...

"Yes, you're hot. Yes, you're brilliant. Funny thing, though. I was propositioned by women who are more beautiful and brilliant than you after I stopped Saren. I didn't want any of them. Ever consider that the best thing about you--the reason I'm making an ass of myself right now--has nothing to do with your genes?"


I like the substance of this a lot better than what we've got now. I'm just trying to read it in my head with Mark Meer's voice and "hot" sounds a little off.

Geez... I'm in a really picky mood today.

#4582
jtav

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"Beautiful" makes for better parallel structure anyway.



I spend more time reworking the romance than playing it.

#4583
Caihn

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fongiel24 wrote...
 

Yannkee wrote...

If you want someone to be proud of something, you're not going to compliment him/her on something else.
He
wants Miri to be proud of what she has done with her abilities, but he
knows she won't, until she stops considering them only as her father's
gift.


The problem is that Miranda's body and mind (if we're talking about her tremendous intelligence and not the way in which she has developed it) really are just her father's gifts. Shepard is saying he admires Miranda for things she had no control over. It seems strangely out of place in a conversation where he's trying to get her to take pride in things she does have control over - everything she accomplished with her gifts and her unique personality and drive that allowed her to escape her father's shadow.
 


It's not the way I interpret this.

Shepard wants Miri to stop considering her superior abilities (body, mind or something else) only as her father's gift, but also as a part of herself. And to do so, he compliments her for what she has done with her abilities.

#4584
Caihn

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About Liara DLC :


Michael Gamble wrote...

This is our biggest DLC yet, period.

It also marks the real beginning where we expand the ME2 story in preparation for ME3.


So it's the first post suicide mission DLC, I suppose.
Too bad I will have to play it with Miranda with a Cerberus uniform <_<

As time gets closer to release, we'll have coverage on more of the awesome things you can expect out of LotSB


Squadmates dialogues ?
:whistle:
 

Modifié par Yannkee, 25 août 2010 - 12:18 .


#4585
PTSTormgarde

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They are taking their sweet time so I imagine they actually got the main actors (and actresses) to record.

#4586
fongiel24

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Yannkee wrote...

Squadmates dialogues ?
:whistle:
 


I hope so but I'm guessing probably not. They'd have to track down 12 voice actors just for a few minutes worth of dialogue.

#4587
jtav

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I doubt it, but I hope so. I have reason to believe Liara will temporarily join your squad. Liara and Miranda fighting side by side! Feron! The conclusion of the SB plot. I'm hoping Liara becomes the new SB and is the ME3 quest giver and mission control. After Tali/Garrus, I think she'll have more dialogue that way.



Now if we could just get Miranda to usurp TIM and take over Cerberus.

#4588
fongiel24

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I'm probably in the minority here, but I actually like Cerberus the way it is. I don't mean it as in I approve of everything Cerberus does, but Cerberus with TIM at the helm is an interesting unknown in the ME universe. They're ruthless, amoral, and couldn't define the word ethical if you handed them a dictionary but they're also sometimes right. I like that they're constantly straddling the line between friend and foe for Shepard and I'd be disappointed if we lost that ambiguity.



I can see Miranda taking on a role like TIM's, but I'd rather she start her own network. Maybe she could even work with Liara to create a shadow organization like Cerberus but without the human superiority angle and the ethically questionable projects.

#4589
Khirzask

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fongiel24 wrote...

I'm probably in the minority here, but I actually like Cerberus the way it is. I don't mean it as in I approve of everything Cerberus does, but Cerberus with TIM at the helm is an interesting unknown in the ME universe. They're ruthless, amoral, and couldn't define the word ethical if you handed them a dictionary but they're also sometimes right. I like that they're constantly straddling the line between friend and foe for Shepard and I'd be disappointed if we lost that ambiguity.

I can see Miranda taking on a role like TIM's, but I'd rather she start her own network. Maybe she could even work with Liara to create a shadow organization like Cerberus but without the human superiority angle and the ethically questionable projects.


I also like Cerberus [chain of command] they way it is. As you said, despite how ruthless the organization can be, the times they've been right have been critical. TIM makes for an interesting ambuguous presence, plus I doubt he'd go quietly into the night if someone were to challenge his leadership. Maybe they'll be useful in ways we haven't considered in the future...

I think (well... hope) that Miranda will in follow through with leaving Cerberus and stay on with Shepard and the rest of the crew. Maybe she'll be XO, maybe not, or maybe it won't be as structured as that. At the very least I hope that her's and Shepard's relationship gets some screen time before ME3.

#4590
PseudoEthnic

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fongiel24 wrote...

I'm probably in the minority here, but I actually like Cerberus the way it is. I don't mean it as in I approve of everything Cerberus does, but Cerberus with TIM at the helm is an interesting unknown in the ME universe. They're ruthless, amoral, and couldn't define the word ethical if you handed them a dictionary but they're also sometimes right. I like that they're constantly straddling the line between friend and foe for Shepard and I'd be disappointed if we lost that ambiguity.

I can see Miranda taking on a role like TIM's, but I'd rather she start her own network. Maybe she could even work with Liara to create a shadow organization like Cerberus but without the human superiority angle and the ethically questionable projects.

I like this idea. I like Cerberus for being able to get the job, and not allow silly politics get in the way. However, my biggest problem with them was their Human-centric agenda and anti-alien reputation. I'm not asking them to be kissing the aliens' asses like the Alliance, but acknowledge that we all must live and work together in this unforgiving galaxy. You understand what I'm saying?

#4591
snfonseka

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Instead of posting a pic of Miranda... I feel like, that I need to post the "real face"...

Posted Image

Modifié par snfonseka, 25 août 2010 - 03:09 .


#4592
snfonseka

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PseudoEthnic wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

I'm probably in the minority here, but I actually like Cerberus the way it is. I don't mean it as in I approve of everything Cerberus does, but Cerberus with TIM at the helm is an interesting unknown in the ME universe. They're ruthless, amoral, and couldn't define the word ethical if you handed them a dictionary but they're also sometimes right........


I like this idea. I like Cerberus for being able to get the job, and not allow silly politics get in the way. However, my biggest problem with them was their Human-centric agenda and anti-alien reputation. I'm not asking them to be kissing the aliens' asses like the Alliance, but acknowledge that we all must live and work together in this unforgiving galaxy. You understand what I'm saying?


People think that they are "anti-alien" because of the "human-centric" agenda... Otherwise I don't think Cerberus is purposely acting as a "anti-alien" group. That's just a side efffect of their actual goal.

#4593
VivaLaNES

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Honestly? The real face is more beautiful than the animated one. Just my thoughts anyway. It would be totally amazing to meet Yvonne, heck even just to hear her talk!!

Sorry I'm geeking out a bit. haha

#4594
fongiel24

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Cerberus itself isn't anti-alien but like Miranda says, they do tend to draw that kind of a crowd. The line between human-centric and anti-alien can also be a very thin one, particularly if you're looking at Cerberus' actions and attitudes from a non-human perspective. This is why Cerberus isn't particularly well-suited to lead the charge against the Reapers, even with their considerable resources and willingness to do whatever it takes.



This is why I don't think Miranda should be attempting to usurp control of Cerberus from TIM. It's reputation would make it too hard to find allies. Better to start off fresh with a new organization than risk people getting the wrong idea by retaining the Cerberus' name and personnel.

#4595
Elyvern

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I must really be the odd one out....

I just don't see the resemblance between Miranda & Strahovski. It's only particular moments with dynamic lighting that the similarities jump out, but those moments are very rare. In fact, when I first saw MIri, I thought she looked like Denise Richards, whom I absolutely can't stand. Posted Image Their voices...I think Bioware also tweaked the recordings, cos Miranda's voice sounds slightly deeper, more into the alto range.

@fongiel - Cerberus & TIM keeps things interesting. As an audience to the universe, I don't hate either persay, although their consistent failures makes it very exasperating and hard to see them as proper antagonists. The world order will definitely be shaken up at the end of ME3, and things are likely going to change drastically.

I do honestly think the Alliance needs a black ops & intelligence division again (which was the role Cerberus fulfilled before it went rogue) for narrative possibilities in the future of the ME universe if nothing else. And I think Miri would be the perfect person for the head of an organisation like that.

#4596
snfonseka

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fongiel24 wrote...

Cerberus itself isn't anti-alien but like Miranda says, they do tend to draw that kind of a crowd. The line between human-centric and anti-alien can also be a very thin one, particularly if you're looking at Cerberus' actions and attitudes from a non-human perspective. This is why Cerberus isn't particularly well-suited to lead the charge against the Reapers, even with their considerable resources and willingness to do whatever it takes.

This is why I don't think Miranda should be attempting to usurp control of Cerberus from TIM. It's reputation would make it too hard to find allies. Better to start off fresh with a new organization than risk people getting the wrong idea by retaining the Cerberus' name and personnel.


How can she do that? When my Shepard is planing to do that in ME3...;).

#4597
snfonseka

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Elyvern wrote...

I must really be the odd one out....

I just don't see the resemblance between Miranda & Strahovski. It's only particular moments with dynamic lighting that the similarities jump out, but those moments are very rare. In fact, when I first saw MIri, I thought she looked like Denise Richards, whom I absolutely can't stand. Posted Image Their voices...I think Bioware also tweaked the recordings, cos Miranda's voice sounds slightly deeper, more into the alto range.

@fongiel - Cerberus & TIM keeps things interesting. As an audience to the universe, I don't hate either persay, although their consistent failures makes it very exasperating and hard to see them as proper antagonists. The world order will definitely be shaken up at the end of ME3, and things are likely going to change drastically.

I do honestly think the Alliance needs a black ops & intelligence division again (which was the role Cerberus fulfilled before it went rogue) for narrative possibilities in the future of the ME universe if nothing else. And I think Miri would be the perfect person for the head of an organisation like that.


Somewhat agree with you... There are some differences between Miranda & Strahovski. I wonder how that has happened :huh:....

#4598
fongiel24

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Elyvern wrote...

I must really be the odd one out....

I just don't see the resemblance between Miranda & Strahovski. It's only particular moments with dynamic lighting that the similarities jump out, but those moments are very rare. In fact, when I first saw MIri, I thought she looked like Denise Richards, whom I absolutely can't stand. Posted Image Their voices...I think Bioware also tweaked the recordings, cos Miranda's voice sounds slightly deeper, more into the alto range.


I think Miranda obviously resembles Yvonne but like you, the similarities aren't always that obvious to me. Switching her from blonde to brunnette made a huge difference IMO. Bioware did a lot more than just recolour her hair brown I think. Miranda's fairer skin tone also provides a great contrast because Yvonne has that nice California tan going.

On a somewhat related note, I wish Bioware had also used Yvonne Strahovski's body as a model for Miranda. Yvonne has that lean, athletic body I would expect from a secret agent whereas Miranda is a bit too curvy.

@fongiel - Cerberus & TIM keeps things interesting. As an audience to the universe, I don't hate either persay, although their consistent failures makes it very exasperating and hard to see them as proper antagonists. The world order will definitely be shaken up at the end of ME3, and things are likely going to change drastically.

I do honestly think the Alliance needs a black ops & intelligence division again (which was the role Cerberus fulfilled before it went rogue) for narrative possibilities in the future of the ME universe if nothing else. And I think Miri would be the perfect person for the head of an organisation like that.


I agree with all of this. TIM and Cerberus don't make great primary antagonists because they're far too nuanced. They're sinister but calling them evil is a bit of a stretch.

I'm reminded of when Miranda compares Cerberus to STG and the asari commandos. Shepard raises a really good point when he points out that STG and the commandos are accountable to a government. Cerberus and the Alliance both really need each other. I suspect if Cerberus had to answer to someone the number of regular f-ups that seem to happen with alarming regularity in their operations would decrease dramatically.

The Alliance seems to lack any kind of an equivalent to real world organizations like the CIA or SIS. When the sh*t hit the fan in Revelation (the first novel), the Alliance sent in a regular naval officer to check it out. That just doesn't cut it. If humanity wants to be one of the big boys, it's going to need its own group of troubleshooters and fixers.

The one thing that might hold Miranda back is her old Cerberus connections. She'd likely be politically unacceptable to head any Alliance intelligence agency that has any chance of seeing the light of day. A black ops unit that can be hidden from the media and humanity's allies maybe. I think it would be ideal if Miranda ran the day-to-day behind the scenes and let someone else be the public face that handles the media and the politicians.

Modifié par fongiel24, 25 août 2010 - 03:57 .


#4599
Khirzask

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VivaLaNES wrote...

Honestly? The real face is more beautiful than the animated one. Just my thoughts anyway. It would be totally amazing to meet Yvonne, heck even just to hear her talk!!
Sorry I'm geeking out a bit. haha


Check out the TV series "Chuck". You'll like it :innocent:

Modifié par Khirzask, 25 août 2010 - 05:12 .


#4600
Ieldra

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Khirzask wrote...

VivaLaNES wrote...

Honestly? The real face is more beautiful than the animated one. Just my thoughts anyway. It would be totally amazing to meet Yvonne, heck even just to hear her talk!!
Sorry I'm geeking out a bit. haha

Check out the TV series "Chuck". You'll like it :innocent:

Not a given. I appreciate Yvonne Strahovski, how she voiced Miranda and her skills as an actress as far as I've been able to witness them, but I dislike "Chuck". Very much so. 

Posted Image