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[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Not a given. I appreciate Yvonne Strahovski, how she voiced Miranda and her skills as an actress as far as I've been able to witness them, but I dislike "Chuck". Very much so. 

The plot is silly and the relationship between Chuck and Sarah sickeningly sweet at times, but that's actually why I like it.

I think I've asked you this before Ieldra, but in case I haven't, what part of Chuck don't you like?

[snfonseka]

fongiel24 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Not a given. I appreciate Yvonne Strahovski, how she voiced Miranda and her skills as an actress as far as I've been able to witness them, but I dislike "Chuck". Very much so. 

The plot is silly and the relationship between Chuck and Sarah sickeningly sweet at times, but that's actually why I like it.

I think I've asked you this before Ieldra, but in case I haven't, what part of Chuck don't you like?

Its a comedy / action... so plot won't be realistic... Besides as I pointed before in this thread, the characters are also somewhat silly... then again I think that's the point of this show, been silly and funny.

[Elyvern]

I've only seen scattered episodes here and there, but the exaggerated "frathouse" atmosphere at the Best Buy is unmistakable. It's like a group of pre-puberscent kids egging and parroting each other because they have no worthwhile opinions of their own.

And despite how much I like Adam Balwin, Agents Walker and Casey have to got be two of the most incompetent secret agents I've ever seen on television. The sheer carelessness in the way they go about their operations, the countless of times they get caught offguard just makes me cringe. It boils down to bad writing, and kudos to Baldwin for being able to project a menacing air despite it all, but the poor actor can only do so much.

The writers seem to spend an inordinate amount of time on the relationship between Chuck and Sarah, but when the entire plot and treatment borders on farcical, I just can't take them seriously even though Levi and Strahovski actually try and play it subtle most of the time.

But mostly, I see Chuck and I just feel that I'm definitely out of the age group they are aiming at. The puerile humour, that kind of slapstick comedy just doesn't work for me anymore. My two cents.

Modifié par Elyvern, 25 août 2010 - 06:26 .

[Caihn]

I love Chuck. It's the most entertaining show I've ever seen, the perfect mix of comic, drama and action.
Yvonne, Adam, Zac and Joshua are just amazing. 1 month to wait before season 4, and I'm really impatient.
I'm also a churah fan so I can't wait to see them together in the next season. There is a chemistry between Chuck and Sarah that cannot be undone.

And of course one of the main reasons of why I watch the show :

fongiel24 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

Squadmates dialogues ?

 

I hope so but I'm guessing probably not. They'd have to track down 12 voice actors just for a few minutes worth of dialogue.

The DLC have been planned by Bioware before ME2 release, so actors could have recorded some dialogues. Yvonne was one of the last VA to record her voice, so we can hope something for Miranda.


 

[Khirzask]

Yannkee wrote...


I'm also a churah fan so I can't wait to see them together in the next season. There is a chemistry between Chuck and Sarah that cannot be undone.

And of course one of the main reasons of why I watch the show :





 

Heh. Churah. I like that. Stealing it and using it from now on.

EDIT: Indeed, I agree too about undeniable chemistry. It's part of what makes the show so likeable. I spent 8 long [days] years punching plot holes in 24, but still enjoying the hell out of watching Bauer kick the ass of every terrorist on the planet. As much as I loved it, sometimes it's refreshing to see the upside of an espionage world. If everything's real all the time... it just goes flat.

Plus, Yvonne.

Modifié par Khirzask, 25 août 2010 - 09:33 .

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...
I think I've asked you this before Ieldra, but in case I haven't, what part of Chuck don't you like?

Please note that as opposed to Yvonne Strahovski, I consider "Chuck" off-topic for this thread, but nonetheless I'll answer you at length. Once. If there's to be more discussion about it, perhaps it would be best to move it to some group (or to the OT forum, where I would continue to participate in the discussion - the group discussion interface isn't so good). 

Several things I don't like come together:
(1) The overbearing silliness. As a rule, I don't like comedy as a genre. I like occasional elements of comedy within other stories - after all, life is like that and not always to be taken seriously - but IMO humor for its own sake loses its point almost all the time. I just don't find it funny any more. The same, btw, goes for romance. If it becomes the main plot, I tend to lose interest. But at least with romance, there is a core of something I can connect to mentally and emotionally. Most comedy leaves me completely bored, and "Chuck" goes over my dosage limit.
(2) Chuck (the character) makes me cringe. I have no sympathy for him at all. Maybe he's changed - I wouldn't know, since I only watched the first season. But I suspect he didn't, which would compound my initial dislike (see point 3). And he's not the only one who makes me cringe, only the worst. If I recall season 1 correctly, I'd just want to hit about every other character who gets to say anything.
(3) There is no point to the story. It never goes anywhere, nothing really seems to happen, and if something does, it doesn't change anything, and the situation becomes exactly as if was before, maybe with one or two unimportant figures changed, or a semi-important one if one of the actors loses interest. Why the hell should I watch a story that bites itself in the tail ad infinitum? The same, btw, goes for all other episodic shows with pretensions to continuity but without a real overarching plot. Either make self-contained episodes, or tell one bigger story, but don't lie to me and pretend there was a point to the continuity. I always wait for something that's not inconsequential to happen, and it never does. At some point I just give up.

I have the first season on DVD - I wanted to know what people were so excited about. And let me tell you, to continue watching after the first episode was work. Very hard work. I don't understand how anyone can bear to watch hours and hours of this stuff.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 25 août 2010 - 10:51 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
"Yes, you're hot. Yes, you're brilliant. Funny thing, though. I was propositioned by women who are more beautiful and brilliant than you after I stopped Saren. I didn't want any of them. Ever consider that the best thing about you--the reason I'm making an ass of myself right now--has nothing to do with your genes?"

I get what you want to say, but you make it sound as if women both more beautiful and more brilliant than Miranda are rather common. I suspect that won't go down well with her. If I wrote Miranda, Shepard would've put his foot in it with this one. Perhaps not seriously - she might answer with an ironic smile and something like "And you didn't even notice how much of an ass..."

[Breakdown Boy]

Ieldra2 wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...
I think I've asked you this before Ieldra, but in case I haven't, what part of Chuck don't you like?

Please note that as opposed to Yvonne Strahovski, I consider "Chuck" off-topic for this thread, but nonetheless I'll answer you at length. Once. If there's to be more discussion about it, perhaps it would be best to move it to some group (or to the OT forum, where I would continue to participate in the discussion - the group discussion interface isn't so good). 

Several things I don't like come together:
(1) The overbearing silliness. As a rule, I don't like comedy as a genre. I like occasional elements of comedy within other stories - after all, life is like that and not always to be taken seriously - but IMO humor for its own sake loses its point almost all the time. I just don't find it funny any more. The same, btw, goes for romance. If it becomes the main plot, I tend to lose interest. But at least with romance, there is a core of something I can connect to mentally and emotionally. Most comedy leaves me completely bored, and "Chuck" goes over my dosage limit.
(2) Chuck (the character) makes me cringe. I have no sympathy for him at all. Maybe he's changed - I wouldn't know, since I only watched the first season. But I suspect he didn't, which would compound my initial dislike (see point 3). And he's not the only one who makes me cringe, only the worst. If I recall season 1 correctly, I'd just want to hit about every other character who gets to say anything.
(3) There is no point to the story. It never goes anywhere, nothing really seems to happen, and if something does, it doesn't change anything, and the situation becomes exactly as if was before, maybe with one or two unimportant figures changed, or a semi-important one if one of the actors loses interest. Why the hell should I watch a story that bites itself in the tail ad infinitum? The same, btw, goes for all other episodic shows with pretensions to continuity but without a real overarching plot. Either make self-contained episodes, or tell one bigger story, but don't lie to me and pretend there was a point to the continuity. I always wait for something that's not inconsequential to happen, and it never does. At some point I just give up.

I have the first season on DVD - I wanted to know what people were so excited about. And let me tell you, to continue watching after the first episode was work. Very hard work. I don't understand how anyone can bear to watch hours and hours of this stuff.

That's why this world is so interesting, we're all different.

[Jebel Krong]

Yannkee wrote...

I love Chuck. It's the most entertaining show I've ever seen, the perfect mix of comic, drama and action.
Yvonne, Adam, Zac and Joshua are just amazing. 1 month to wait before season 4, and I'm really impatient.
I'm also a churah fan so I can't wait to see them together in the next season. There is a chemistry between Chuck and Sarah that cannot be undone.

And of course one of the main reasons of why I watch the show :

fongiel24 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

Squadmates dialogues ?

 

I hope so but I'm guessing probably not. They'd have to track down 12 voice actors just for a few minutes worth of dialogue.

The DLC have been planned by Bioware before ME2 release, so actors could have recorded some dialogues. Yvonne was one of the last VA to record her voice, so we can hope something for Miranda.


 

some of the initial dlcs were planned before launch, but all of the later ones were done post me2 (check the dev posts in the liara/shadowbroker announcement thread), so any additional VA requires them getting people back. for big (and expensive ones) like this upcoming one it's perhaps more likely, but i wouldn't hold my breath, unfortunately.

was going to post that yvonne pic and the other one the other day but i forgot - absolutely stunning.

 

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 25 août 2010 - 11:43 .

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...
I'm probably in the minority here, but I actually like Cerberus the way it is. I don't mean it as in I approve of everything Cerberus does, but Cerberus with TIM at the helm is an interesting unknown in the ME universe. They're ruthless, amoral, and couldn't define the word ethical if you handed them a dictionary but they're also sometimes right. I like that they're constantly straddling the line between friend and foe for Shepard and I'd be disappointed if we lost that ambiguity.

I agree with this. I'm reading Retribution now, and TIM is written better than in Ascension so far. No less ruthless, but more ambiguous and less the stereotypical villain. He also shows some personal courage. Karpyshyn still paints characters with a broad brush, but his writing did improve.

I can see Miranda taking on a role like TIM's, but I'd rather she start her own network. Maybe she could even work with Liara to create a shadow organization like Cerberus but without the human superiority angle and the ethically questionable projects.

I don't want that. I think the Alliance needs a secret organization that works mostly for humanity's interests, and I'm not sure if including Liara would be possible there. Also, some ethically questionable projects will remain by necessity - while the "we don't care at all about individual humans" attitude will be mostly gone, such an organization cannot remain morally clean. Also I like Miranda's moral ambguity, her element of consequentialism. A mostly Paragon Miranda wouldn't be the person I've come to like anymore.
 

[jtav]

Point taken Ieldra. Apparently writing romantic speeches isn't my strong suit.



I wish they'd been closer to Strahovski in some ways. Miranda spends to much time in the Uncanny Valley. She's supposed to be stunning, but she looks like she was designed by someone who'd been given a list of features but no sense of how to put them together to make a whole.

[Caihn]

Jebel Krong wrote...

some of the initial dlcs were planned before launch, but all of the later ones were done post me2 (check the dev posts in the liara/shadowbroker announcement thread), so any additional VA requires them getting people back. for big (and expensive ones) like this upcoming one it's perhaps more likely, but i wouldn't hold my breath, unfortunately.
 

The difference is this DLC will be the first to expand ME2 story in preparation of ME3. So I think writers already worked on the scenario before the post production of ME2. . Bioware could have anticipated the need to record additional dialogues.

[Elyvern]

jtav wrote...

I wish they'd been closer to Strahovski in some ways. Miranda spends to much time in the Uncanny Valley. She's supposed to be stunning, but she looks like she was designed by someone who'd been given a list of features but no sense of how to put them together to make a whole.

I'm rather fine with Miranda looking distinctively different from Strahovski, regardless of whether it was intentional or not. Personally, I'm not comfortable with projecting and building assumptions onto real people, or their close facsimiles, so this is better in my opinion. 

I feel Miranda's tendency to fall into the uncanny valley doesn't have to do so much with how she looks. She looks pretty okay most of the time. I think it comes about more from a combination of the lighting in the game, the difficulty of animating emotions and the rule of thumb that since we interact with human beings on a daily basis, we're extremely sensitive to subtle wrongness with human faces. All the humans in the game suffer from this to different extents, but it's more problematic with human women. For example, no real life woman would have eyelashes like the women in the game . So even if they manage to make her truly look like Strahovski, the total effect would be even more eerie when she smiles or emotes (creepy Shepard grin, anyone?)

Modifié par Elyvern, 25 août 2010 - 12:58 .

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't want that. I think the Alliance needs a secret organization that works mostly for humanity's interests, and I'm not sure if including Liara would be possible there. Also, some ethically questionable projects will remain by necessity - while the "we don't care at all about individual humans" attitude will be mostly gone, such an organization cannot remain morally clean. Also I like Miranda's moral ambguity, her element of consequentialism. A mostly Paragon Miranda wouldn't be the person I've come to like anymore.
 

Interestingly enough, this is how I imagine my Shepard's professional relationship with Miranda. He has to be humanity's poster boy to the rest of the galaxy, which confines him to a limited choices because of the political repercussions of his actions. And he has to depend on her moral strength (and it is moral strength) to do what needs to be done, to enter the grey zone and accomplish things he cannot even though he may want to. Without anyone wiser. It's gradually becoming my impression that even if she has to stay in the shadow of Shepard, it's only because she chooses to, and not because she's easily overshadowed. Rather, she's pragmatic and driven enough if that her work demands it, so be it.

Modifié par Elyvern, 25 août 2010 - 12:49 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Point taken Ieldra. Apparently writing romantic speeches isn't my strong suit.

I wish they'd been closer to Strahovski in some ways. Miranda spends to much time in the Uncanny Valley. She's supposed to be stunning, but she looks like she was designed by someone who'd been given a list of features but no sense of how to put them together to make a whole.

It's an artifact of the game's lighting, mostly. Still, it is surprising how stunningly beautiful Yvonne Strahovski is, and how so much less of it is in evidence in Miranda most of the time. Not that I don't find her beautiful in the right lighting, but she's still far from the original.
(It may just be that YS looks so stunningly beautiful all the time because in all the photos and TV scenes, the lighting is very carefully controlled, which is not possible in a game where the player controls where the characters go).

As for romantic speeches, here's an early version of what I plan to use in my alternative romance. It's said by an Earthborn Shepard. Probably a bit on the cheesy side as well, but I hope not too much:

"Look at what you did. You had all material comforts in your life, and you threw it all away rather than remain under your father's control. You rescued your sister. I know what life on the streets is like, but I grew up to it, and had no choice in the matter. You risked it. And didn't only survive, but made a life for yourself where you make a difference. That wasn't your father, that was you. Your courage and determination. It's not the only thing I see and admire when I look at you, but without it, everything your father gave you wouldn't mean anything. To humanity. And to me."

Modifié par Ieldra2, 25 août 2010 - 01:05 .

[Ieldra]

Elyvern wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I don't want that. I think the Alliance needs a secret organization that works mostly for humanity's interests, and I'm not sure if including Liara would be possible there. Also, some ethically questionable projects will remain by necessity - while the "we don't care at all about individual humans" attitude will be mostly gone, such an organization cannot remain morally clean. Also I like Miranda's moral ambguity, her element of consequentialism. A mostly Paragon Miranda wouldn't be the person I've come to like anymore.
 

Interestingly enough, this is how I imagine my Shepard's professional relationship with Miranda. He has to be humanity's poster boy to the rest of the galaxy, which confines him to a limited choices because of the political repercussions of his actions. And he has to depend on her moral strength (and it is moral strength) to do what needs to be done, to enter the grey zone and accomplish things he cannot even though he may want to.

Nice to see another one who recognizes that.

Without anyone wiser. It's gradually becoming my impression that even if she has to stay in the shadow of Shepard, it's only because she chooses to, and not because she's easily overshadowed. Rather, she's pragmatic and driven enough if that her work demands it, so be it.

Definitely. But I think Miranda may make an extremely good figure as the leader of a mysterious secret organization that does shadowy work for humanity, with very limited, but not non-existent media presence. The fact that she's a beautiful woman will add greatly to the organization's aura of mystery. There will be so many rumors that the truth will be totally obscured by them. Every time some inconsequential fact becomes public, there will be a new round of baseless speculation in the tabloids, and the extranet will teem with fake "unauthorized biographies" of her. No one will, of course, deny anything.   

[Jebel Krong]

heh. once again: it's my shep who lives in the darkness and does the things no other person should to protect the rest. shep was only the poster boy insofar he was the first human spectre, no more. in miranda there is a kindred spirit who will cross the line if necessary, but who understands the consequences - all of them - for doing so. and yes there needs to be an alliance "STG" or whatever - cerberus patently isn't it, but everyone has black ops/intelligence - hell the spectres are the ultimate example.

[Jebel Krong]

btw quick question: is there a way to easily duplicate a savegame profile on the 360 like you can on pc? (i don't want to have to do another run-through with the same choices to try out a different ending, for example).

[Caihn]

A new wallpaper :

 

[Jebel Krong]

great cutout, terrible background yannkee - too busy, colourful and blurred (especially in comparison with the nice miranda model detail).

[Caihn]

I have the original "purified" version if you want.

 

[Ieldra]

I prefer the first one. The second looks sterile in comparison. The green is not the best color, though, for the background. Did you consider "biotic blue"?

Modifié par Ieldra2, 25 août 2010 - 03:31 .

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Definitely. But I think Miranda may make an extremely good figure as the leader of a mysterious secret organization that does shadowy work for humanity, with very limited, but not non-existent media presence. The fact that she's a beautiful woman will add greatly to the organization's aura of mystery. There will be so many rumors that the truth will be totally obscured by them. Every time some inconsequential fact becomes public, there will be a new round of baseless speculation in the tabloids, and the extranet will teem with fake "unauthorized biographies" of her. No one will, of course, deny anything.   

The veritable "Illusive Woman", but with an emphasis on the "covert" rather than "shady" aspect. 

Very much so, hence my pet scenario where she would be an ideal person to run the Alliance's black ops & intel agency and can therefore provide Shepard off-the-book support for his work as a Spectre, an Alliance ship captain or whatever he chooses to do. Fongiel did mention that if such an organisation is anywhere as public as the Salarian STG, Miranda's Cerberus' past may pose a problem. But if the officials deny the existence of such an agency, her checkered reputation may actually enhance the veracity of such an organisation.

Damn, I swore never to write another fanfic. Stop putting ideas into my head!

Modifié par Elyvern, 25 août 2010 - 03:51 .

[Caihn]

Ieldra2 wrote...
Did you consider "biotic blue"?

[VivaLaNES]

Khirzask wrote...

VivaLaNES wrote...

Honestly? The real face is more beautiful than the animated one. Just my thoughts anyway. It would be totally amazing to meet Yvonne, heck even just to hear her talk!!
Sorry I'm geeking out a bit. haha

Check out the TV series "Chuck". You'll like it :innocent:

I have, and om my goodness its the most amazing comedy/action show I have ever seen. I actually got into it afte playing ME2.