15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Caihn]

lazuli wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
Jacob is the last person I would imagine to have a romantic story with Miranda.
Saying that Miranda requires a better man than him is probably the most intelligent thing he said during the whole game.

Why, if I may ask?  I didn't play Mass Effect: Galaxy, so I can't speak for their relationship in that game.  But Jacob and Miranda are different enough to fulfill the "opposites attract" cliché.  Or maybe Miranda just has a thing for protagonists.

To sum up, if Jacob's behavior with Miranda is the same than his behavior with Female Shepard, the only priiiiize he could receive is a kick in his face.
To me, Jacob is absolutely not the kind of man for Miranda.
I have no problem to imagine them as good friends, but not as lovers.

[shinobi602]

Yannkee wrote...

shinobi602 wrote...

Link to trailer? =D

http://masseffect.bi...m/media/videos/

the first one

Wow sweet! Looks great

[Jebel Krong]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Ah, I see it hasn't been posted yet here. For those of you who are unaware, I'm the guy who created that "Miranda Full Body" render that was posted a couple pages back. I got a lot of positive feedback on a Tali'Zorah wallpaper I made a couple weeks ago, so I made one of Miranda as well. I hope you guys (and gals) enjoy!

yup i knew it was yours from a while ago, nice to see it in wallpaper form, thanks!

[shinobi602]

WOW what a picture! Beauty =D

[lazuli]

Yannkee wrote...
To sum up, if Jacob's behavior with Miranda is the same than his behavior with Female Shepard, the only priiiiize he could receive is a kick in his face.
To me, Jacob is absolutely not the kind of man for Miranda.
I have no problem to imagine them as good friends, but not as lovers.

One current analysis of the Jacob romance is that he's not the one at fault.  Rather, it's Shepard's half of the romance that seems so off.  I'm not sure if you subscribe to that philosophy or not, but I think Jacob does warrant a second glance.  It's a knee jerk reaction on these boards to dismiss him outright due to his cringe-worthy prize line.

[Ieldra]

JeanLuc761 wrote...

Ah, I see it hasn't been posted yet here. For those of you who are unaware, I'm the guy who created that "Miranda Full Body" render that was posted a couple pages back. I got a lot of positive feedback on a Tali'Zorah wallpaper I made a couple weeks ago, so I made one of Miranda as well. I hope you guys (and gals) enjoy!

I almost overlooked this. The expression on her face is so Miranda-like. This subtle smile that hints at things she might hide, reveals nothing of what she really thinks of feels and makes you curious at the same time. I love it.  

[Caihn]

lazuli wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
To sum up, if Jacob's behavior with Miranda is the same than his behavior with Female Shepard, the only priiiiize he could receive is a kick in his face.
To me, Jacob is absolutely not the kind of man for Miranda.
I have no problem to imagine them as good friends, but not as lovers.

One current analysis of the Jacob romance is that he's not the one at fault.  Rather, it's Shepard's half of the romance that seems so off.  I'm not sure if you subscribe to that philosophy or not, but I think Jacob does warrant a second glance.  It's a knee jerk reaction on these boards to dismiss him outright due to his cringe-worthy prize line.

I don't judge him only because of this line. To me, Jacob is not a guy for Miranda. The only one I could imagine to have something more than a friendship with her is Kaidan (but not without some difficulties).

To me Miranda has turned down Jacob. I interpreted the discussion between Jacob and Shepard this way, and his line after his loyalty mission definitely convinced me. I won't blame Jacob for trying to hide it, nobody is proud to have been turned down by someone.

Modifié par Yannkee, 01 septembre 2010 - 08:16 .

[Ieldra]

lazuli wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
To sum up, if Jacob's behavior with Miranda is the same than his behavior with Female Shepard, the only priiiiize he could receive is a kick in his face.
To me, Jacob is absolutely not the kind of man for Miranda.
I have no problem to imagine them as good friends, but not as lovers.

One current analysis of the Jacob romance is that he's not the one at fault.  Rather, it's Shepard's half of the romance that seems so off.  I'm not sure if you subscribe to that philosophy or not, but I think Jacob does warrant a second glance.  It's a knee jerk reaction on these boards to dismiss him outright due to his cringe-worthy prize line.

I agree he deserves a second look. His in-between romance scenes are actually quite good, but the first scene with femShep's heavy-handed come-hither and the last scene with "heavy risk....but the priiize", they spoil the rest beyond redemption. Too bad, really. I would've liked a human option for my femSheps.

As for Miranda and Jacob, she's beyond him. They may have had their time together, it may have been good while it lasted, but in the long run Jacob would never be able to keep up. Miranda's too driven, and Jacob not the man to convince her she needn't be. Thane could do that if you can imagine a relationship between them, and possibly Kaidan - he's driven as well, but more at peace with himself. But not Jacob.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 01 septembre 2010 - 08:15 .

[jtav]

I agree about Kaidan and Thane. Kaidan is her perfect match, really. Liara could work as well. The woman is nothing if not determined and she shares with Miranda a willingness to do anything for those she loves. Miranda/Jacob was always doomed, but I find it interesting despite, nay because of that. Just consider me the local Miranda/anyone but Shepard shipper.

[Ieldra]

Uh, oh....I just noticed "Lair of the Shadow Broker" and DAO's "Witch Hunt" come out on the same day. This is getting awkward....

[Caihn]

To me, her perfect match is Shepard.

Kaidan could work.

Thane, maybe.

Jacob, never.

[lazuli]

Do you think Jacob was just a one night stand, then?  Miranda strikes me as the kind of woman who knows exactly what she wants.

[jtav]

Yankee doesn't think they had a relationship. I believe it was brief, but they intended it to be serious. It just didn't work out.



I wonder if I'll get my dream of Miranda and Liara fighting side by side?

[Caihn]

lazuli wrote...

Do you think Jacob was just a one night stand, then?  Miranda strikes me as the kind of woman who knows exactly what she wants.

No. I think there was absolutely nothing more than friendship.

Here is an another quote from ShadowJ20 who analyzed the discussion between Shepard and Jacob :

ShadowJ20 wrote...

I still don't think they got together. If they were together then Jacob would just flat out say so (no embarrassment for Jacob). He tried to get something going and got turned down by Miranda. If Jacob said "she turned me down" or something like that then he'd feel embarrassed (I'd be too) so that's why he says "it got a little close". Jacob is probably one of the most disliked characters in ME2 so Bioware won't degrade him any further. No offense Jacob fans.

They were good friends and talked about personal stuff (like Jacob's father) that's how they were "a little close" and how it got "really far apart" was when he got turned down because I think Miranda didn't want to give Jacob the wrong idea and she probably wanted Jacob to stay focused on the missions. So she reverts back to the ice cold women we see in ME2 who doesn't smile and talks nothing else but business.

When asked for insight on her character Jacob hardly knew anything. "Can't help you there commander, If I knew what made her tick then I'd either be with her or dead." Which would imply he didn't get really far. If they had a relationship then it would be reasonable for Jacob to know something. He's obviously not with her or dead. Then Shepard says "sour grapes" which is an idiom meaning denial of the desirability of something after one has found out that it cannot be reached or acquired. If I used it in a sentence, Jacob wanted Miranda, but she didnt like him so Jacob had a clear case of sour grapes. Which would fit with Jacob saying "she requires a better man than I".

I'm basing it on dialogue.

[jtav]

They slept together. Nothing will convince me otherwise. When the last shot is a woman bringing champagne to a gentleman's private quarters, the assumption that sex is imminent is entirely reasonable. I don't find Shadow's counterarguments convincing. Doesn't bother me. The relationship is over. She likely has numerous exes. Jacob's just the only one we see.

[Caihn]

jtav wrote...

They slept together. Nothing will convince me otherwise. When the last shot is a woman bringing champagne to a gentleman's private quarters, the assumption that sex is imminent is entirely reasonable.  

Not for me.
First I was thinking the same, but then I watched a long video of the game and the conclusion and I realized that Miranda is bringing the champagne for the success of the mission, and probably not for something else.

Modifié par Yannkee, 01 septembre 2010 - 08:56 .

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

I think I'm the only one here who likes that she had something with Jacob. I love it when characters have romantic histories that extend beyond the protagonist.

I  like to think she had an actual romantic history with Jacob as well. In my mind, they were much more than "just friends" and there were more than just a few dates. With what we know of Miranda, I believe the relationship would have been very intense but also ended relatively quickly when Miranda realized Jacob wasn't what she was looking for. This would explain Jacob's "it got very close, then it got really far" comment (I don't remember the exact line).

There's really no reason why Jacob couldn't have been a short-term candidate as Miranda's love interest. He's intelligent (they don't put you in special forces, particularly deep cover ones like the Corsairs if you're an idiot), he's relatively driven, he's not bad looking, and he's far from common. In addition, they work together, making him extremely convenient for someone like Miranda who basically lives to work.

In my head, the reason it didn't work out is that as driven as Jacob is, he's still a bit naive when it comes to his expectartions. He actually thinks that someday relatively soon(5-10 years at most), his job will be finished and he can get that house with the white picket fence and settle down. He never really understood that for Miranda, her job will never really end because it she sees her job as justification for her existence. Miranda (at least in the beginning of ME2) will never stop fighting the enemies of humanity and can't "settle down".

In the end, Jacob's idea of a relationship is too "normal" and as many people have speculated, he may have been asking more than Miranda can provide. Jacob isn't common, but he's far less exceptional than Miranda first thought. At heart he's just a regular guy who wants to make a difference but eventually get on with life. This lets me tie my version into Jacob's "she requires a better man than I" comment.

[lazuli]

jtav wrote...

They slept together. Nothing will convince me otherwise. When the last shot is a woman bringing champagne to a gentleman's private quarters, the assumption that sex is imminent is entirely reasonable. I don't find Shadow's counterarguments convincing. Doesn't bother me. The relationship is over. She likely has numerous exes. Jacob's just the only one we see.

I agree.  To me, this is something Miranda would be very comfortable doing and is well within the bounds of her character.

[Caihn]

fongiel24 wrote...


I  like to think she had an actual romantic history with Jacob as well. In my mind, they were much more than "just friends" and there were more than just a few dates. With what we know of Miranda, I believe the relationship would have been very intense but also ended relatively quickly when Miranda realized Jacob wasn't what she was looking for. This would explain Jacob's "it got very close, then it got really far" comment (I don't remember the exact line).
 

If I have to explain that I had a short romantic story with someone I wouldn't use these words.

To me the relationship never started.

[fongiel24]

Yannkee wrote...

To me, her perfect match is Shepard.
Kaidan could work.
Thane, maybe.
Jacob, never.

I think this would really depend on what kind of Shepard we're talking about. IMO, really Paragon or really Renegade Shepards wouldn't work that well because Miranda herself is a pragmatic character that falls somewhere in the grey area when it comes to morality. She has good intentions, but she's willing to do very bad things to see them fulfilled. A Shepard with similarly nuanced morality would probably work best.

Shepard also couldn't be the type to expect the two of them to settle down and live happily ever after. Miranda doesn't need someone to "rescue" her from the life she lives - she needs a partner she can rely on who's capable of being as independent as she is. An overly clingy Shepard who leaves fifty messages on her phone a day isn't going to last long.

BTW, what is the equivalent of a phone in the ME world? I've been struggling with it in my writing. I've tried using "omnitool" as a catch-all for phone, PDA, and everything else but the codex entry seems to suggest omnitools are quite specialized.

[Caihn]

fongiel24 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

To me, her perfect match is Shepard.
Kaidan could work.
Thane, maybe.
Jacob, never.

I think this would really depend on what kind of Shepard we're talking about. IMO, really Paragon or really Renegade Shepards wouldn't work that well because Miranda herself is a pragmatic character that falls somewhere in the grey area when it comes to morality. She has good intentions, but she's willing to do very bad things to see them fulfilled. A Shepard with similarly nuanced morality would probably work best.

Shepard also couldn't be the type to expect the two of them to settle down and live happily ever after. Miranda doesn't need someone to "rescue" her from the life she lives - she needs a partner she can rely on who's capable of being as independent as she is. An overly clingy Shepard who leaves fifty messages on her phone a day isn't going to last long. 

I played Paragon and Paragade and I think both can fit.
I RP my Shep, because the game doesn't give enough elements about Shepard. And all of them are the perfect match for Miranda.

[Caihn]

About this we'll never agree because we doesn't have the same opinion on Miranda. You consider Miranda more pragmatic than I do.
I think that's also why I don't have a problem to accept a softer Miranda, or her opinion about keeping or not the collector base.

Modifié par Yannkee, 01 septembre 2010 - 09:19 .

[jtav]

Yes, but you had to create that Shepard and fill in those blanks. In-game Shep is designed to be an absolutely perfect match for all available LIs. And there are certain character concepts that simply don't work, even if the game lets you romance her anyway. For example, if Shepard does want a perfectly conventional happy ending or expects her to stop being a bit of a workaholic, we've got trouble.

[fongiel24]

Yannkee wrote...

About this we'll never agree because we doesn't have the same opinion on Miranda. You consider Miranda more pragmatic than I do.
I think that's also why I don't have a problem to accept a softer Miranda, or her opinion about keeping or not the collector base.

This is true. I suspect my view of the ME world (galaxy?) is much darker than that of most. It's hard to judge a character completely by the five or six conversations we get to have with Miranda.

[jtav]

I've noticed I seem to be unusually comfortable for this thread with the idea that Miranda has had past lovers and serious romantic relationships. I'm not sure what makes me different. But I do consider it a point in her favor as a character.