15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Caihn]

fongiel24 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

About this we'll never agree because we doesn't have the same opinion on Miranda. You consider Miranda more pragmatic than I do.
I think that's also why I don't have a problem to accept a softer Miranda, or her opinion about keeping or not the collector base.

This is true. I suspect my view of the ME world (galaxy?) is much darker than that of most. It's hard to judge a character completely by the five or six conversations we get to have with Miranda.

The characters in Mass Effect are deeply developed, but there are still some blanks.
Miranda is such a complex character that it's even more difficult to have the same point of view.

[Caihn]

jtav wrote...

I've noticed I seem to be unusually comfortable for this thread with the idea that Miranda has had past lovers and serious romantic relationships. I'm not sure what makes me different. But I do consider it a point in her favor as a character.

We have absolutely no hints about this in the game, so everyone has his own theory.
Personally, I think she had some serious relationship in the past. I even think she had more serious relationships than flings.

Modifié par Yannkee, 01 septembre 2010 - 09:40 .

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

I've noticed I seem to be unusually comfortable for this thread with the idea that Miranda has had past lovers and serious romantic relationships. I'm not sure what makes me different. But I do consider it a point in her favor as a character.

I think the objections in this thread are more towards Jacob being a past lover than past lovers in general. Miranda's a beautiful woman in her 30s so expecting her to be perfect, unpicked fruit is a little unreasonable.

Like some others have said (you in particular), I suspect Miranda doesn't really have a particularly traditional or conservative view of sex. If she sees something she likes, she'll go after it.

[Nightwriter]

I wonder who her first boyfriend was and what that was like. Did she spot him herself? Did her dad shove her at the son of a businessman he was trying to win over? Did she care for the guy? Did she just act the way she was expected to, becoming ever more disgusted at how easily and eagerly he fell for her act? When did she have time for him, with her father dictating her whole schedule? Did she sneak to see him? Was it against the rules? Did it happen after she'd already run away?

[jtav]

I, ah, have put some thought into that for my current story. Her first serious relationship was before she ran away with the daughter of an employee of her dad's. They were two intellectual peas in a pod and talked about going to university together since they were both smart enough to qualify earlier. Dad didn't like that and paid for her to go to the equivalent of Stanford without Miranda. She tool the money and ran and Miranda learned a valuable lesson about trust. Swap the gender of her partner if that pleases you.

[fongiel24]

Nightwriter wrote...

I wonder who her first boyfriend was and what that was like. Did she spot him herself? Did her dad shove her at the son of a businessman he was trying to win over? Did she care for the guy? Did she just act the way she was expected to, becoming ever more disgusted at how easily and eagerly he fell for her act? When did she have time for him, with her father dictating her whole schedule? Did she sneak to see him? Was it against the rules? Did it happen after she'd already run away?

I wonder if Ieldra has something cooking like that in his fic.

If we're talking about when she first started dating, I do see it unfolding somehwat like how you described, Night but if we're talking about first real relationship and when she lost her virginity, I suspect it didn't happen until she ran away. I see Miranda as a relatively late bloomer but learning and making up for lost time quickly.

[jtav]

Yes, I imagine that her father kept a tight leas on her and she didn't lose her virginity until after she ran away but lost it quickly after that. Probably mostly so she could get it over with.

[Nightwriter]

It's funny how we all have different versions of this, lol.

Myself, I envision Miranda as becoming increasingly more disappointed that there are no men around her who can see past her facade or really connect with her on her level. I always imagined that early on she began experimenting with boys, flirting, what have you, and discovered that the men around her were easy, which began to define her whole take on relationships in general: give people what they want and they'll gobble it up; people are selfish.

She honed her manipulation skills to perfection, more than likely encouraged by her father, all the while becoming a bit cold about love and romance. I don't think she really cared for anyone because she makes it clear her father didn't let her have friends or be close to anyone. If she had a close lover I think it came after she ran away.

[Caihn]

Too much text, not enough pictures.
To stay on topic :

 

[Pwnisher]

Miranda's father was quite controlling of Miranda's early life and I don't think that he would want his perfect daughter to be fooling around and possibly get an STD or become pregnant.

[Nightwriter]

... We were off topic?

Anyway, I wouldn't be surprised if her dad genetically modified her to resist STDs, lol.

[jtav]

I'm going to be insufferable when the DLC comes out. I don't expect it, but I'll pretend Liara and Miranda have lots of interaction while Shepard does his thing, if that's all right.

[Shadow_broker]

200 PAGES

almost...

Modifié par Shadow_broker, 02 septembre 2010 - 02:09 .

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

I'm going to be insufferable when the DLC comes out. I don't expect it, but I'll pretend Liara and Miranda have lots of interaction while Shepard does his thing, if that's all right.

I have a bad feeling in my gut that the Liara DLC is going to have very little interaction between Liara and Shepard's teammates, other than maybe Garrus and Tali. Although, given that Liara and Miranda have crossed paths in Redemption, I might be pleasantly surprised.

Nightwriter wrote...

It's funny how we all have different versions of this, lol.

Myself,
I envision Miranda as becoming increasingly more disappointed that
there are no men around her who can see past her facade or really
connect with her on her level. I always imagined that early on she
began experimenting with boys, flirting, what have you, and discovered
that the men around her were easy, which began to define her whole take
on relationships in general: give people what they want and they'll
gobble it up; people are selfish.

She honed her manipulation
skills to perfection, more than likely encouraged by her father, all
the while becoming a bit cold about love and romance. I don't think she
really cared for anyone because she makes it clear her father didn't
let her have friends or be close to anyone. If she had a close lover
I think it came after she ran away.

I can see this. I wouldn't be all that surprised if her relationship with Shepard was the first one she's ever invested herself emotionally in on a significant level. It might explain why in her romance she sometimes acts a bit OOC - Miranda being in a serious romantic relationship at all is OOC.

Modifié par fongiel24, 02 septembre 2010 - 02:42 .

[Caihn]

Nightwriter wrote...

... We were off topic?
 

No it's me who wanted stay on topic with my pictures.

fongiel24 wrote...

I can see this. I wouldn't be all that surprised if her relationship with Shepard was the first one she's ever invested herself emotionally in on a significant level. It might explain why in her romance she sometimes acts a bit OOC - Miranda being in a serious romantic relationship at all is OOC.

I disagree.
To me, it's not her first one, and Miranda being in a serious romantic relationship is not OOC.

Modifié par Yannkee, 02 septembre 2010 - 03:51 .

[snfonseka]

Pwnisher wrote...

Miranda's father was quite controlling of Miranda's early life and I don't think that he would want his perfect daughter to be fooling around and possibly get an STD or become pregnant.

Besides... he invested a great deal of money on her, so he won't be happy to see that...

[snfonseka]

Miri and Tim.....

Modifié par snfonseka, 02 septembre 2010 - 04:02 .

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

To me, her perfect match is Shepard.
Kaidan could work.
Thane, maybe.
Jacob, never.

I think this would really depend on what kind of Shepard we're talking about. IMO, really Paragon or really Renegade Shepards wouldn't work that well because Miranda herself is a pragmatic character that falls somewhere in the grey area when it comes to morality. She has good intentions, but she's willing to do very bad things to see them fulfilled. A Shepard with similarly nuanced morality would probably work best.

Shepard also couldn't be the type to expect the two of them to settle down and live happily ever after. Miranda doesn't need someone to "rescue" her from the life she lives - she needs a partner she can rely on who's capable of being as independent as she is. An overly clingy Shepard who leaves fifty messages on her phone a day isn't going to last long.

I agree. Saying "Shepard is the perfect match for her" is simplistic. I happen to envision my Shepards that way, but what the game shows me is more often a hindrance rather than a help. You need to find your path between the jerk - who Miranda wouldn't like - on one side and the naive - who she wouldn't respect - on the other.

BTW, what is the equivalent of a phone in the ME world? I've been struggling with it in my writing. I've tried using "omnitool" as a catch-all for phone, PDA, and everything else but the codex entry seems to suggest omnitools are quite specialized.

The main objection is that not everyone has an omnitool. But though it can be programmed for specialized tasks, it is very much a multipurpose device. It can't be that limited if both civil engineers (see ME1: Bring Down the Sky) and military hackers use it.
Wireless communication devices, as I see it, are such minor additions that I imagine you can use phone functionality with pretty much anything. If you don't need vidcom or data projections, you could integrate the device in things you carry with you every day. Possibly you won't even have personalized devices, since they're common as sand. Personalized would be the headsets rather than the devices themselves. But they're miniaturized as well. In my fanfic, I have Miranda using her omnitool for vidcom, but otherwise treat wireless communication devices as so omnipresent and small that I assume anyone can use one at any time without a need to explain what exactly they're using.The hard thing when writing these things is the need to show the switch between normal face-to-face conversation and speaking phone-to-phone, because as a rule you won't see the switch.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 02 septembre 2010 - 05:59 .

[Breakdown Boy]

I believe that Miranda would have had multiple physical relations in her lifetime, whether there was actual romantic feelings involved is another matter. Her lack of connection with a father figure and the fact that she never had a mother could cause the need for physical intimacy as a replacement for her lack of connection.



What I'm saying is that she would have no problem with casual sex. That's why the relationship with Shep confuses her and makes her feel different, she never felt that way before.

So I do believe she slept with Jacob, but she treated it casualy as where Jacob thought there could be more and then Miranda most likely ended it there.

[snfonseka]

Breakdown Boy wrote...

I believe that Miranda would have had multiple physical relations in her lifetime, whether there was actual romantic feelings involved is another matter. Her lack of connection with a father figure and the fact that she never had a mother could cause the need for physical intimacy as a replacement for her lack of connection.

What I'm saying is that she would have no problem with casual sex. That's why the relationship with Shep confuses her and makes her feel different, she never felt that way before.
So I do believe she slept with Jacob, but she treated it casualy as where Jacob thought there could be more and then Miranda most likely ended it there.

Agreed. I never imagined otherwise regarding her. But, what I think is that she won't treat "casual sex" so casualy as Jack. If we taking about "the possibility of having STD".... Jack is in the top of the list !

[SweetPuff]

My first post...

THAT wink!

Modifié par SweetPuff, 02 septembre 2010 - 07:29 .

[Breakdown Boy]

snfonseka wrote...

Breakdown Boy wrote...

I believe that Miranda would have had multiple physical relations in her lifetime, whether there was actual romantic feelings involved is another matter. Her lack of connection with a father figure and the fact that she never had a mother could cause the need for physical intimacy as a replacement for her lack of connection.

What I'm saying is that she would have no problem with casual sex. That's why the relationship with Shep confuses her and makes her feel different, she never felt that way before.
So I do believe she slept with Jacob, but she treated it casualy as where Jacob thought there could be more and then Miranda most likely ended it there.

Agreed. I never imagined otherwise regarding her. But, what I think is that she won't treat "casual sex" so casualy as Jack. If we taking about "the possibility of having STD".... Jack is in the top of the list !

I son't think human STD/ STI's even exist in ME2 as the codex desrcibed 'genetic deseases' being eliminated in human gene. That would suggest that those type of infections just aren't carried around anymore.

But besides that, I don't believe Miri would be that irisponsible.

[snfonseka]

Breakdown Boy wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

Breakdown Boy wrote...

I believe that Miranda would have had multiple physical relations in her lifetime, whether there was actual romantic feelings involved is another matter. Her lack of connection with a father figure and the fact that she never had a mother could cause the need for physical intimacy as a replacement for her lack of connection.

What I'm saying is that she would have no problem with casual sex. That's why the relationship with Shep confuses her and makes her feel different, she never felt that way before.
So I do believe she slept with Jacob, but she treated it casualy as where Jacob thought there could be more and then Miranda most likely ended it there.

Agreed. I never imagined otherwise regarding her. But, what I think is that she won't treat "casual sex" so casualy as Jack. If we taking about "the possibility of having STD".... Jack is in the top of the list !

I son't think human STD/ STI's even exist in ME2 as the codex desrcibed 'genetic deseases' being eliminated in human gene. That would suggest that those type of infections just aren't carried around anymore.

But besides that, I don't believe Miri would be that irisponsible.

You probably right about STD. I just brought it up because someone mentioned about that earlier. As for "sex", it's all about our own ideas, imaginations.... Isn't it.

Anyway my idea about the topic is... Miranda probably have used her attractiveness / sex... as a tool for "get the job done", when it is necessary to do so.

[fongiel24]

Breakdown Boy wrote...

I son't think human STD/ STI's even exist in ME2 as the codex desrcibed 'genetic deseases' being eliminated in human gene. That would suggest that those type of infections just aren't carried around anymore.

But besides that, I don't believe Miri would be that irisponsible.

When the codex talks about genetic diseases being eliminated, it's referring to conditions like autism and Down's syndrome. These are relatively easy to tackle because they result from harmful recessive mutations in the human genome. All you have to do is find the defective gene early on in embryonic development and fix it (easier said than done, but very possible with 22nd century technology).

HIV and other STDs would be much more difficult to completely eliminate because they're "moving targets". Highly survivable bacteria and viruses like HIV have proven as resilient as they are because they mutate at a ridiculous rate (due to their short lifespan). By the 22nd century, it may be possible to treat STDs like HIV very effectively but I doubt they could ever be completely eliminated. They can find a cure for AIDS, but that doesn't mean you can't get it again.

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

The hard thing when writing these things is the need to show the switch between normal face-to-face conversation and speaking phone-to-phone, because as a rule you won't see the switch.

This is the hard part. I just don't know what to refer to. In ME2 Shepard and other characters are often shown pressing something to their ears, probably some sort of comm bead but I doubt everyone wears that sort of thing around all the time (my guess is that the comm bead is for some sort of military-grade tactical communications network). I've read some people suggesting it's an implant, but this isn't really satisfactory either because that would require everyone to undergo invasive surgery to use the 22nd century equivalent of a cellphone.

While we're on the subject, what would you guys call the console Miranda is always working on in her office? "Computer" would be the most obvious but it sounds so... bland. I've tried simply "console" but that's too unspecific.