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Miranda Lawson - our favorite woman in the galaxy (III)


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#26
Ieldra

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Pacifien wrote...
Hey, I don't romance Miranda. Our professional relationship requires a little effort.

Well yes, Miranda is not an easy woman to relate to. But whether professional or romantic - it's worth it.

I like Miranda, but I do have a difficult time trying to describe what I like about her because my Shepard comes from a different place than her. Her loyalty to Cerberus is understandable, but it's misplaced in my mind. She seems to have a very strong moral ethic, and feels like the Illusive Man will fight for his operatives so long as they do right by him. That's why she's shocked the Illusive Man would send the Normandy crew into a trap with the Collector Ship. And I figure it's her moral ethic that causes her to oppose keeping the Collector Base. Unlike the Illusive Man, she does have limits on what she's willing to do to see humanity succeed.

The problem is to define "a strong ethic". We all have moral intuitions and values, and they tend to overlap in certain areas, but the differences are still enough to cause wars. So if you say she has a strong ethic, then qualify: what kind of ethic? Her morality is certainly not of the conventional type, IMO she's more consequentialist than most, but it does have limits, as you say. I think her opposing the decision to keep the base, particularly the way she expresses it ("It feels like a betrayal"), is very much out-of-character for her. I can see one or two reasons why she would be wary, but she'd back it up with real arguments instead of unsupported intuition. But really I think she'd support keeping the base, though with some reservations.

I suppose what Miranda learns most from Shepard, regardless of whether your romance her, is someone who will fight for his crew rather than use them as resources. She was treated as just a resource by her father. She thought she was treated as human being by the Illusive Man, but after the Collector Ship, she realizes he doesn't.

I wish this part was more clear. Her decision to resign at the end comes a bit sudden. We only have this little piece of doubt creeping into her voice after the Collector Ship. It's easily overlooked.

#27
VampireCommando

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Page two already!, well thats cool we did have alot of 'visitors' wishing us luck in our new endevour, on that note are all the regulars that aren't already here informed of our new thread?

#28
Ieldra

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VampireCommando wrote...
Page two already!, well thats cool we did have alot of 'visitors' wishing us luck in our new endevour, on that note are all the regulars that aren't already here informed of our new thread?

I'm still busy editing the OP - the embedded video code vanishes every time I go into edit mode. That's annoying.

Are there any left who must be informed? The only one absent is kraidy, and he's followed the discussion enough to know what's happening. 

#29
Ieldra

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I'll put the sigs here... some of them are dead links. I'll deal with that later.

Show Your Support
Put Banners in your sig to show your support!

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(Credits: Aris Ravenstar, andysilv87 and Maviarab for the Banners)

#30
VampireCommando

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Ieldra2 wrote...

VampireCommando wrote...
Page two already!, well thats cool we did have alot of 'visitors' wishing us luck in our new endevour, on that note are all the regulars that aren't already here informed of our new thread?

I'm still busy editing the OP - the embedded video code vanishes every time I go into edit mode. That's annoying.

Are there any left who must be informed? The only one absent is kraidy, and he's followed the discussion enough to know what's happening. 


True enough it does look like were all here and acounted for , i might PM it him though, just to be on the safe side of things, and good luck with the Video code, your the Threads OP now, its one of the burdens i guess lol. Talking about the OP, do you think we have the best one (OP) out of all of the support threads, you know, our Miri memerandum and all?

#31
Caihn

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Hey, I don't romance Miranda. Our professional relationship requires a little effort.

Well yes, Miranda is not an easy woman to relate to. But whether professional or romantic - it's worth it.

I like Miranda, but I do have a difficult time trying to describe what I like about her because my Shepard comes from a different place than her. Her loyalty to Cerberus is understandable, but it's misplaced in my mind. She seems to have a very strong moral ethic, and feels like the Illusive Man will fight for his operatives so long as they do right by him. That's why she's shocked the Illusive Man would send the Normandy crew into a trap with the Collector Ship. And I figure it's her moral ethic that causes her to oppose keeping the Collector Base. Unlike the Illusive Man, she does have limits on what she's willing to do to see humanity succeed.

The problem is to define "a strong ethic". We all have moral intuitions and values, and they tend to overlap in certain areas, but the differences are still enough to cause wars. So if you say she has a strong ethic, then qualify: what kind of ethic? Her morality is certainly not of the conventional type, IMO she's more consequentialist than most, but it does have limits, as you say. I think her opposing the decision to keep the base, particularly the way she expresses it ("It feels like a betrayal"), is very much out-of-character for her. I can see one or two reasons why she would be wary, but she'd back it up with real arguments instead of unsupported intuition. But really I think she'd support keeping the base, though with some reservations.

I suppose what Miranda learns most from Shepard, regardless of whether your romance her, is someone who will fight for his crew rather than use them as resources. She was treated as just a resource by her father. She thought she was treated as human being by the Illusive Man, but after the Collector Ship, she realizes he doesn't.

I wish this part was more clear. Her decision to resign at the end comes a bit sudden. We only have this little piece of doubt creeping into her voice after the Collector Ship. It's easily overlooked.



 I don't agree with you on this, Ieldra. But it's because I see Miranda a little bit differently.
I don't think it's out of character.
To me it's a good conclusion to the character's evolution, especially on the Paragon way.

It's maybe the only thing we do not agree on, but I like the idea to have a character who could be understood differently.

#32
Ieldra

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Yannkee wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Pacifien wrote...
Hey, I don't romance Miranda. Our professional relationship requires a little effort.

Well yes, Miranda is not an easy woman to relate to. But whether professional or romantic - it's worth it.

I like Miranda, but I do have a difficult time trying to describe what I like about her because my Shepard comes from a different place than her. Her loyalty to Cerberus is understandable, but it's misplaced in my mind. She seems to have a very strong moral ethic, and feels like the Illusive Man will fight for his operatives so long as they do right by him. That's why she's shocked the Illusive Man would send the Normandy crew into a trap with the Collector Ship. And I figure it's her moral ethic that causes her to oppose keeping the Collector Base. Unlike the Illusive Man, she does have limits on what she's willing to do to see humanity succeed.

The problem is to define "a strong ethic". We all have moral intuitions and values, and they tend to overlap in certain areas, but the differences are still enough to cause wars. So if you say she has a strong ethic, then qualify: what kind of ethic? Her morality is certainly not of the conventional type, IMO she's more consequentialist than most, but it does have limits, as you say. I think her opposing the decision to keep the base, particularly the way she expresses it ("It feels like a betrayal"), is very much out-of-character for her. I can see one or two reasons why she would be wary, but she'd back it up with real arguments instead of unsupported intuition. But really I think she'd support keeping the base, though with some reservations.

I suppose what Miranda learns most from Shepard, regardless of whether your romance her, is someone who will fight for his crew rather than use them as resources. She was treated as just a resource by her father. She thought she was treated as human being by the Illusive Man, but after the Collector Ship, she realizes he doesn't.

I wish this part was more clear. Her decision to resign at the end comes a bit sudden. We only have this little piece of doubt creeping into her voice after the Collector Ship. It's easily overlooked.



I don't agree with you on this, Ieldra. But it's because I see Miranda a little bit differently. I don't think it's out of character. To me it's a good conclusion to the character's evolution, especially on the Paragon way.

It's maybe the only thing we do not agree on, but I like the idea to have a character who could be understood differently.


I admit my opinion may be clouded by personal aspects. ME2 is. dare I say it, tainted by using one of the tropes I hate with a passion, with an extra level of viciousness if it's used, mostly in a hypocritical way, in speculative fiction: Science is Bad. The decision about the base, about Reaper tech in general, Cerberus experiments etc.. all shout "Don't research Things Man Was Not Meant to Know" at the player in high volume. Well, I don't subscribe to it. Understanding things, not destroying things you don't understand, is the way out of the problems. And I refuse to believe that Miranda, who is, after all, a scientist, would subscribe to it. If she decided to destroy the base because TIM can't be trusted, she would do it with tears in her eyes.

#33
Ieldra

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Polls and meme/event pictures. Stored here for reference, linked in the OP. If anyone thinks the polls should stay in the OP, tell me, but I think the high time for polls is over. Any differring opinions about "outsourcing" action pics? Maybe three or four could go back into the OP, but most of them are just a waste of valuable OP space these days.

Vote for Miranda in these polls:
http://social.biowar...700/polls/1994/
http://social.biowar...685/polls/1887/
http://social.biowar...435/polls/2013/
http://social.biowar...975/polls/2074/
http://social.biowar...267/polls/1815/
http://social.biowar...017/polls/1731/
http://social.biowar...975/polls/2091/
http://social.biowar...697/polls/2143/
http://social.biowar...5/index/1159949
http://social.biowar...984/polls/2781/

Miranda ACTION Pics

Miranda wants you to stop smiling, damnit.
http://social.biowar...284/album/2153/
http://img3.imagesha...irobamacon2.jpg
http://i867.photobuc...randadammit.jpg
http://i867.photobuc...ilingRScene.jpg
http://i867.photobuc...umans/18720.jpg

Really, she meant that.
http://img508.images.../niketcopy.jpg/

Miss a thread?
i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/TJRumans/Mirimissthread.jpg

Jealous?
i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/TJRumans/mirajealous.jpg

Disapprove?
i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/TJRumans/mirandadisapp.jpg
http://social.biowar...41637/18997.jpg

For shame on you!
http://social.biowar...41637/19445.jpg

Need a battlecry?
i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/TJRumans/MiriFloor.jpg

Night, Night?
i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/TJRumans/NightNight2.jpg
i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/TJRumans/NightNight.jpg

Night, Night--when it's not bedtime!?!?
i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/TJRumans/NightNightST.jpg

Scanning planets?
i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/TJRumans/Scanning.jpg

Wish Shepard could L2Jump?
i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/TJRumans/MiriRescue.jpg

Like Miranda from the very start of the game?
i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/TJRumans/wakeup.jpg

Look, don't touch.
i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/TJRumans/Looknottouch.jpg

In this thread, we follow orders.
img203.imageshack.us/img203/3952/mirorders.jpg
http://social.biowar...41637/19054.jpg

Facepalm.
http://social.biowar...41637/19186.jpg

EPIC FAIL!
http://social.biowar...41637/21653.jpg

Got a troll problem?
http://social.biowar...41637/19608.jpg

Valentine's Day Cards
i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/TJRumans/valcard1.jpg
i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/TJRumans/valcard2.jpg
i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/TJRumans/valcard3.jpg
i867.photobucket.com/albums/ab239/TJRumans/valcard4.jpg

Bearbeitet von Ieldra2, 11 Juni 2010 - 06:53 .


#34
VampireCommando

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The polls are a waste of space if i'm honest, keep the pics though, some guests might wanna look at the fan art when they visit.

#35
jtav

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I see most of my recs met with your approval, Ieldra. Phew.



I should be getting my copy of Redemption Monday or so. I'll let you guys know what I think of Miranda's role. Might even have an excerpt for you. Miranda, Liara, and Tai are great for my creativity. Not so great for my focus.

#36
Ieldra

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jtav wrote...
I see most of my recs met with your approval, Ieldra. Phew.

Phew indeed - changes are mostly done. I haven't read them all yet btw, but I trust you to only recommend reasonably good ones.

I should be getting my copy of Redemption Monday or so. I'll let you guys know what I think of Miranda's role. Might even have an excerpt for you. Miranda, Liara, and Tai are great for my creativity. Not so great for my focus.

Thanks for reminding me to order it....

@all:
OP changes are done for now. Tell me what you think of it. Hope I haven't introduced any dead links.

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BTW, this is one of my personal "iconic" Miranda pics. Which are yours?

#37
Prudii Aden

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I see the thread has moved.

As far as qualifications goes, I can see Miranda having advanced degrees in whatever she chose to study. I wouldn't be surprised if bio-engineering featured in there.

#38
jlb524

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I'm shocked Miranda is beating Tali in some of those polls...I thought Tali won everyone by a landslide.

#39
VampireCommando

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jlb524 wrote...

I'm shocked Miranda is beating Tali in some of those polls...I thought Tali won everyone by a landslide.


Not everyone loves Tali you know.:devil:

#40
jtav

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Though some of use do love them both. It can be done.

#41
Ieldra

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jlb524 wrote...
I'm shocked Miranda is beating Tali in some of those polls...I thought Tali won everyone by a landslide.

:D Just shows that those who shout the loudest don't necessarily also have the numbers. I'm very glad Bioware doesn't have to depend on the forums to judge popularity.

BTW, does anyone know what exactly our games send to Bioware if we activate "game feedback"?

#42
VampireCommando

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Ieldra2 wrote...
Phew indeed - changes are mostly done. I haven't read them all yet btw, but I trust you to only recommend reasonably good ones.


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The  is looking great, you did a real good job of cleaning it up well done, although i dread to think how long it took you to do all of it, and the most Iconic one for me is probbly when you first see her whilst your on the operating table, everyone knows it so theres no reason for me to stick it in this post.


Left Ieldra's pic in for good measure, as you can never have enough Miri in you post i suppose.

#43
VampireCommando

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jtav wrote...

Though some of use do love them both. It can be done.


Yep you yourself are living evidence, and a greater man that i for resisting Miri's charms.

#44
Ieldra

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I've just run into another comment saying that Miranda's face looks like a potato....can you believe someone can look at the picture I've posted above and then make a comment like that? I recall some said that of Ashley, too....




#45
VampireCommando

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Ieldra2 wrote...

jlb524 wrote...
I'm shocked Miranda is beating Tali in some of those polls...I thought Tali won everyone by a landslide.

:D Just shows that those who shout the loudest don't necessarily also have the numbers. I'm very glad Bioware doesn't have to depend on the forums to judge popularity.

BTW, does anyone know what exactly our games send to Bioware if we activate "game feedback"?


Could be anything really, but its most likely Technical feedback, something along those lines, i figure that info would be the most useful, in making patches, fixing glitches so on so fourth.

#46
TheSixthghoul

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Here a question, why is it that Miranda,tali,and Jack only have two photos,yet Thane has four?

#47
Ieldra

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VampireCommando wrote...

jtav wrote...

Though some of use do love them both. It can be done.

Yep you yourself are living evidence, and a greater man that i for resisting Miri's charms.

Were you unaware that jtav is a woman?

#48
VampireCommando

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Ieldra2 wrote...

I've just run into another comment saying that Miranda's face looks like a potato....can you believe someone can look at the picture I've posted above and then make a comment like that? I recall some said that of Ashley, too....


Okay normally i'd be offended by anyone trying to insult Miri, but this one has me just plaom confused, i mean whats with a potato?:blink:

#49
jtav

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It helps that I'm a girl. Miranda's charms are intellectual for me. Though I don't think the Tali thread approves of my expression of love.

#50
Ieldra

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Sixth Goul wrote...
Here a question, why is it that Miranda,tali,and Jack only have two photos,yet Thane has four?

??? What are you talking about ???