15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Andaius20]

[Andaius20]

[Andaius20]

[Ieldra]

Ah...the resignation scene. Haven't seen that one for quite some time. I guess my opinion of Miranda's comment is well know by now

And I agree with Vulgus Presentia, Sleepy Buddha and Yankee about the engine room scene. It's not flawless, but I do prefer it completely without any spoken dialogue. It's appropriate IMO, and apart from that, spoken dialogue tends to trigger my analytical mind, which is not so appropriate here...
My problem with it is that it's so unconvincing as a sex scene, because of the location and a few other details. And it could be a bit longer - couldn't it always?. But still without dialogue.

[Ieldra]

Updated the Miranda Lawson FAQ.

[Ieldra]

Freelancer rook wrote...

I actually like this group. Its better than the Tali fan group.

Nice to hear we're appreciated. Have a Miranda picture:

[Ieldra]

Darth Cheesecake wrote...
Miranda thread is very loyal.

Are we more loyal than other threads? In which way?

[Ieldra]

Darth Cheesecake wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Darth Cheesecake wrote...
Miranda thread is very loyal.

Are we more loyal than other threads? In which way?

Consistent would probably be more accurate.
I've yet to see RP spam here.

"RP spam"? What's RP?

[Ieldra]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...
- Her romance is my favorite in ME2. But what doesn’t make sense is that in one conversation you end up sharing a kiss and then the next one immediately gets so emotional. What the hell?
Couldn’t Bioware have at least added a few more normal conversations or flirts before the latter one takes place?

That's a common complaint. Some people want more scenes between the kiss and the next scene, other more between the "promise" scene and the love scene. Whichever it is, one more scene would have gone a long way. I guess it's a result of too many characters.

- Her turning against Cerberus in the end seems completely random to me. I don’t see anywhere throughout the game where she starts doubting Cerberus and its goals. At the beginning she’s a real space n a z i, a loyal Cerberus operative and throughout the game you can see that she keeps her view unchanged. What makes it even odder to me is that if you don’t do her loyalty mission she still resigns when TIM orders her to stop Shepard from destroying the Collector base.
Bioware should have at least made a conversation where Miranda and Shepard have a debate about Cerberus and their different viewpoints.

(1) She never questions Cerberus' goals. You can interpret her resignation that way, but IMO it's a stretch. She questions its methods, and probably questions that Cerberus does indeed work for the good of humanity and not just the good of TIM.
(2) Miranda's doubts about Cerberus are foreshadowed on the Collector Ship mission - when you discover that TIM had lied about certain aspects of the situation, she says "The Illusive Man wouldn't do that....would he?" and it's clear that she has her doubts. It's impossible to make her doubts stronger because in the end, it's possible for her to stay, and that must be convincing as well.
(3) You have the option to talk with her about what happened in ME1 in one of the conversations (option: I saw your monsters). It's not much, but at least it's there. The only thing that needed to be addressed, and isn't, is Akuze for the Sole Survivor background. That you can't talk about that seems implausible, for a Sole Survivor Shepard would would talk about that in preference over any other Cerberus activities.
Apart from its methods, any debates about Cerberus' goals are difficult because it's not clear what exactly people mean when they talk about the "preservation and advancement" of humanity. I guess TIM's picture and Miranda's would differ significantly. It would be interesting to talk about details, but I have the impression that this was kept vague by intention so players were free to put their own interpretation on it.

Having said all that, I do think her speaking about against keeping the base is out-of-character (yes, there is some disagreement about that). This has to do with my interpretation of what keeping the base means. It does not necessarily mean that TIM will go and grind humans to grey goo from now on. For me, it means that we will have the opportunity to gain understanding of our enemy's capabilities. I can't see Miranda rejecting that opportunity.
I see this situation as Bioware trying to deal with the problem of keeping Miranda while rejecting Cerberus. The whole thing is unconvincing, but it makes it plausible for players to destroy the base while keeping their relationship with Miranda. It would have been nice to have a more convincing process, but I guess that was too complicated.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 juin 2010 - 11:04 .

[Ieldra]

Believe it or not, Darth Cheesecake, but jtav has memorized more about Miranda than I have... I just post more.

[Caihn]

AwesomeEffect2 wrote...

For me there were two flaws about Miranda

- Her romance is my favorite in ME2. But what doesn’t make sense is that in one conversation you end up sharing a kiss and then the next one immediately gets so emotional. What the hell?
Couldn’t Bioware have at least added a few more normal conversations or flirts before the latter one takes place?

- Her turning against Cerberus in the end seems completely random to me. I don’t see anywhere throughout the game where she starts doubting Cerberus and its goals. At the beginning she’s a loyal Cerberus operative and throughout the game you can see that she keeps her views unchanged. What makes it even odder to me is that if you don’t do her loyalty mission she still resigns when TIM orders her to stop Shepard from destroying the Collector base.
Bioware should have at least made a conversation where Miranda and Shepard have a debate about Cerberus and their different viewpoints.

To me, Miranda doesn't resign because she doupt cerberus and its goals. She resigns because she has learn something with shepard: she discovered she can be consider as a person, not as tool. TIM doesn't care about Miranda's opinions and only consider her as his puppet who can be replaced when he wants.
To me Miranda resigns from TIM, not from Cerberus. OK it's the same thing because TIM is cerberus, but she still believe in cerberus (original) goals.

[TheSixthghoul]

Yannkee wrote...
To me, Miranda doesn't resign because she doupt cerberus and its goals. She resigns because she has learn something with shepard: she discovered she can be consider as a person, not as tool. TIM doesn't care about Miranda's opinions and only consider her as his puppet who can be replaced when he wants.
To me Miranda resigns from TIM, not from Cerberus. OK it's the same thing because TIM is cerberus, but she still believe in cerberus (original) goals.

That really ruins the paragon/renegade choices? SO if you renegade the base you're a Creberus tool. If you paragon it you're party tool? Whatever happened to you're decision? Because you want to.

[Ieldra]

Sixth Goul wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
To me, Miranda doesn't resign because she doupt cerberus and its goals. She resigns because she has learn something with shepard: she discovered she can be consider as a person, not as tool. TIM doesn't care about Miranda's opinions and only consider her as his puppet who can be replaced when he wants.
To me Miranda resigns from TIM, not from Cerberus. OK it's the same thing because TIM is cerberus, but she still believe in cerberus (original) goals.

That really ruins the paragon/renegade choices? SO if you renegade the base you're a Creberus tool. If you paragon it you're party tool? Whatever happened to you're decision? Because you want to.

You misunderstand. Yankee's post implies nothing about your reason for your decision, only about Miranda's reason for her decision to resign or to stay.

[Caihn]

Sixth Goul wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
To me, Miranda doesn't resign because she doupt cerberus and its goals. She resigns because she has learn something with shepard: she discovered she can be consider as a person, not as tool. TIM doesn't care about Miranda's opinions and only consider her as his puppet who can be replaced when he wants.
To me Miranda resigns from TIM, not from Cerberus. OK it's the same thing because TIM is cerberus, but she still believe in cerberus (original) goals.

That really ruins the paragon/renegade choices? SO if you renegade the base you're a Creberus tool. If you paragon it you're party tool? Whatever happened to you're decision? Because you want to.

The Paragon/Renegade choice is Shepard's choice not Miranda's choice.
If Shepard choose to destroy the base, Miranda doesn't have to confront TIM, so she doesn't have to make this decision. But I won't be surprised if she resign between ME2 and ME3.

[TheSixthghoul]

I understood it, I was making a segue to the over all point view. See, I could understand the aliens wanting it destroyed and out of Cerberus hands. I understand Jacob,Kasumi,and Jack you know what? I find all of those opinions invalided and poor arguments.

Now, on to Miranda. I can understand her being on the fence. The problem I have is way she is on the fence. She clams it a "betrayal", I'm not sure how, the goal was to destroy the collectors and stop the alien abductions. For the most part it was a assumed it was planet until you get there. I can understand she still has human has empathy, but I feel it's a little over board with empathy way too soon  and way too late. Like I said on another thread, it seems they didn't want her to turn on paragon Shepard(you know,you got to make Shep look good).

What does all this have to do with Shepard being a tool, because of the last two choices? Pretty much Miranda, the paragon ending when Miranda leaves Cerberus. Because of the lack of logic in Miranda turning and what she said. Pretty much made the renegade in to a tool to Cerberus, which in turn made paragon a tool to his crew.

Miranda is so great, when she acts out of character Mass Effect logic breaks.

Modifié par Sixth Goul, 15 juin 2010 - 02:07 .

[jtav]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Believe it or not, Darth Cheesecake, but jtav has memorized more about Miranda than I have... I just post more.

I use gutty's tool and the wiki and only have a few lines memorized. And I'd definitely agree with the "heart and soul" comment. You were a big part of the reason I didn't run away ver quickly. In retrospect, I suppose speculating that Miranda is an abuse survivor and writing a story that turned her into a war criminal were not perhaps the best introduction.

[Andaius20]

Hey folks how's it going in here? whats the topic?