15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Nightwriter]

Aw, you guys always know how to make me feel better.

It was just kind of troubling for me to find out she was still looking for guys on iPartners. I was having traumatic flashbacks to Morrigan in DA:O, when my favorite LI was also the one whose character leaned the most toward unfaithfulness.

[fongiel24]

Nightwriter wrote...

I'm just trying to avoid the "she accepts nothing but the best, even for sex" explanation, as that would crush me.

Was anyone else hoping for some romance-specific information in her dossier? Like, I don't know, finding out her iPartners subscription had gotten canceled? Maybe Oriana asking Miranda if she was still with that cute commando guy? A "don't act like you don't like him" line or two? Maybe I'm just being silly hoping for that...

For casual, one-night sex I imagine Miranda would assume an "accept nothing but the best" attitude. If you were her, wouldn't you? She's a physically gorgeous woman without a lot of time on her hands - why should she just accept any random guy on iPartners for casual sex?

That doesn't mean that Shepard has to be physically and genetically perfect for her to love him and be with him though. I think Miranda strongly differentiates the physical act of sex from emotional relationships. She loves Shepard because she knows the kind of person he is. She doesn't know the kind of people she's casually hooking up with, so the physical bar is higher. I realize this is still a very flimsy explanation, but it's the only one I can think of.

Regarding the idea of Oriana bringing up Shepard in her exchange with Miranda, I agree it would have been a neat thing to see but the problem is that Ashley's sister did the exact same thing in ME1. Doing the exact same thing with Miranda would just be blantantly plagiarizing the first game and the Ashley fans would be out for blood.

Nightwriter wrote...

Aw, you guys always know how to make me feel better.

It was just kind of troubling for me to find out she was still looking for guys on iPartners. I was having traumatic flashbacks to Morrigan in DA:O, when my favorite LI was also the one whose character leaned the most toward unfaithfulness.

The iPartners entries have no date stamps, only locations - Illium, Omega, and the Citadel. While it seems suspicious, considering these are all places Shepard has visited, that doesn't necessarily mean Miranda was off having meaningless sex with strangers while Shepard was on missions. These are also all locations Miranda would have good reason to have operated in even before Lazarus.

Illium is the "gateway to the traverse" where anything and everything can be bought or sold. Miranda also seems to have extensive contacts there. It wouldn't be surprising if Cerberus business had taken her to Illium on a regular basis in the past. Ditto for Omega, except here Miranda explicitly acknowledges having travelled there in the past on missions. We know she's operated on the Citadel in the past from ME Galaxies. We shouldn't automatically jump to the conclusion that Miranda's dalliances happened over the course of ME2.

Modifié par fongiel24, 12 septembre 2010 - 02:24 .

[jtav]

She isn't being unfaithful. I wouldn't call it an actual relationship where either had any right to expect monogamy until "So don't, die, etc." The romance isn't locked in until after that, which is pretty late in story terms. The encounter on Illium probably happened around the time of her loyalty mission. Before you can so much as flirt.

fongiel, the SR2 in her sn is very strong evidence this happened during ME2.

Modifié par jtav, 12 septembre 2010 - 02:26 .

[atheelogos]

Guys the iPartners thing probably happened way before shepard was brought back. I wouldn't worry about it.

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

fongiel, the SR2 in her sn is very strong evidence this happened during ME2.

Dammit - never noticed that. Guess that throws my theory out the window.

[jtav]

Like I said, I don't have a problem with it. It clearly doesn't affect her job, and Shepard's in no position to demand she not have other partners until well after these likely took place.



And aren't I thread contrarian?

[Collider]

I don't think it's something to be taken seriously. It's clear to me that Bioware poked fun in some cases at itself and the characters in this DLC. Many of the dossiers are divided into funny and sad segments. I would take the more serious things as something to ponder, while the more humorous things as something simply to laugh at.

[Caihn]

fongiel24 wrote...

jtav wrote...

fongiel, the SR2 in her sn is very strong evidence this happened during ME2.

Dammit - never noticed that. Guess that throws my theory out the window.

No it doesn't.
SR2 was the code name of the ship before Shepard decided to name it "Normandy SR2".
The ship was finished before Shepard woke up, and I think it took months to build it, so it doesn't mean it happened during ME2. 

[LuxDragon]

SR-2 is firmly stamped on the ship when he first saw it. Normandy was added later.

[fongiel24]

The problem remains that Miranda wasn't affiliated with the SR-2 project. The SR-2 was built by a different cell than Miranda's Lazarus team. I wouldn't be surprised if Shepard's first time seeing the completed SR-2 was Miranda's first as well.

[Arijharn]

Either way, it's not as if Shephard can claim 'ownership' of Miranda's love life before they're actually a couple... otherwise I may as well claim ownership on Yvonne Strahovski's right now.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I do get the sense that hardcore Miranda fans are mostly male, though not overwhelmingly. And I appreciate the lack of "there are no girls on the internet" posts. I suspect the reason you don't see much Miranda fic is that the writers are mostly female.

There was a time when I thought the best professional writers were also mostly female. Things appear more balanced these days.
What I'd be really interested in is whether the readers of romance stories are mostly female. It's a stereotype I have the impression is based on truth.

fongiel, there was going to be a sex scene, remember? I'd have kept it if it had added anything to the story. If I ever do that Liara/Miranda story, there will be a sex scene.

I'm planning a sex scene in "Masks and Mirrors". It does serve a purpose, but I'm still unsure if I can really write it. What I fear most is that it will be perceived as cheap and gratuitous.

And yes, I'm online again. Nice place here. I can actually write and enjoy the scenery at the same time.

jtav, I added your fanfic to the OP. Funny review btw, "sir" ***LOL***

[Caihn]

fongiel24 wrote...

The problem remains that Miranda wasn't affiliated with the SR-2 project. The SR-2 was built by a different cell than Miranda's Lazarus team. I wouldn't be surprised if Shepard's first time seeing the completed SR-2 was Miranda's first as well.

If you remember the scene when Shepard, Miranda and Jacob mount on board, it's obvious Miranda and Jacob already know the Normandy. It's them who present the ship to shepard, and they seem to know the ship very well.
Miranda was aware of the project long time before shepard woke up, and I think TIM already told her she would be Shepard's XO on the ship.

[Ieldra]

atheelogos wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

atheelogos wrote...

..... So I broke up with Miranda. The deciding factor was when I found out she couldn't have kids. I know that sounds horrible, and trust me it wasn't easy, but I want to know if anyone did the same?

why do people place so much emphasis on having kids as the important factor in a relationship? boggles the mind... <_<

because a large number of people want Sheps line to continue. The ability to have children is important to a majority of people out there.

It's no reason to break up. None at all. Even for those people who find important. They haven't thought it through, and for that reason alone they don't deserve her. For there are always ways around these problems, as Miranda herself shows.
But I guess I'm in the minority that wants Miranda's line to continue.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...

I don't care if Shepard can have children. I care that Miranda wants a child but can't conceive. It's a tragedy. At the same time, it shouldn't be wiped away so easily that it trivializes the problem. An element of risk/time/expense in the treatment would be welcome.

I think we can agree there. To introduce as problem as a problem and then handwave it away is bad storytelling. I'd still take the cheap cure over none at all, but much better to make something of it story-wise.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
True Night, but the point still stands. If she was trying to conceive, she was going about it in a very stupid way. There's no guarantee even a fertile woman would conceive after one encounter. A sperm bank would give her more information. Not to mention, she's on a suicide mission. Not the time to have kids.

I think it's a Bioware screwup again. They *intended* to make it appear as she wanted to conceive a child - for she would have care not *only* about medical records if she was looking for casual sex - but yet again, didn't get it right.
I think the dates were supposed to have taken place some years ago, but then they put the SR2 reference in the name and everything was ruined. Really, Bioware and ME space/time considerations. Epic fail.

[Ieldra]

Collider wrote...
I don't think it's something to be taken seriously. It's clear to me that Bioware poked fun in some cases at itself and the characters in this DLC. Many of the dossiers are divided into funny and sad segments. I would take the more serious things as something to ponder, while the more humorous things as something simply to laugh at.

I'm inclined to believe that as well, as I've already posted when this discussion began. The only problem with it is that infertility is not a joke, whichever way you look at it. You can wave the other dossiers away as funny tidbits detailing characters' personalities a bit more but in no major way, but you can't do that with Miranda's.

[Dave of Canada]

One thing about the Miranda romance that always bothers me... Why the engineering deck?

[Collider]

I'm inclined to believe that as well, as I've already posted when this discussion began. The only problem with it is that infertility is not a joke, whichever way you look at it. You can wave the other dossiers away as funny tidbits detailing characters' personalities a bit more but in no major way, but you can't do that with Miranda's.

My perspective that is that portions of the Miranda dossier can be waved away. The dating segment was obviously intended to be humorous. The infertility part was something serious in tone, so in that respect I take it as something serious. Most of the other dossiers have this divide of segments of humorous and serious/sad. The former I can accept as the writers poking fun at the characters, the latter I consider to be canonical or something to be pondered over.

Modifié par Collider, 12 septembre 2010 - 07:47 .

[snfonseka]

Yannkee wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

The problem remains that Miranda wasn't affiliated with the SR-2 project. The SR-2 was built by a different cell than Miranda's Lazarus team. I wouldn't be surprised if Shepard's first time seeing the completed SR-2 was Miranda's first as well.

If you remember the scene when Shepard, Miranda and Jacob mount on board, it's obvious Miranda and Jacob already know the Normandy. It's them who present the ship to shepard, and they seem to know the ship very well.
Miranda was aware of the project long time before shepard woke up, and I think TIM already told her she would be Shepard's XO on the ship.

But remember that each cell is independent and isolated from each other. I think the higher probability is, TIM will tell what Miranda wants to know at the correct time, not before.... basicaly, in "need to know basis".

[t3HPrO]

I just spent 5 minutes on wikipedia reading up about poor Miri's condition, and after just one minute, I realized the d!ckhead writer at bioware DIDN'T even bother to research the problem he/she was giving Miranda. Because it's clearly stated on wikipedia that benign neoplasms resulting in tumors are easily cured by today's surgery. Let med tech improve for another 200 years and it's a forgone conclusion that Miri can and will be cured easily. Treatment is expensive, sure, but the fact remains that there is a cure, and Miri CAN be fertile again.



@Ieldra2

I agree with you. During the months where you were getting everything ready to hit the Collectors, almost everyone, especially Miranda, were so frigging busy that nobody really had time for a one nighter. Thus Miri's one nighter(only one according to the messages, as she cut off the other three) had to be BEFORE the events of ME2 and the Lazarus project. Besides, Miri gave the guy an address, which would be impossible during ME2 given that everyone lived on the Normandy.



So yes, bioware epic fails at both time/event continuity and research on topics. Bioware, please start proofreading your plots and start doing your research.

[snfonseka]

t3HPrO wrote...

I just spent 5 minutes on wikipedia reading up about poor Miri's condition, and after just one minute, I realized the d!ckhead writer at bioware DIDN'T even bother to research the problem he/she was giving Miranda. Because it's clearly stated on wikipedia that benign neoplasms resulting in tumors are easily cured by today's surgery. Let med tech improve for another 200 years and it's a forgone conclusion that Miri can and will be cured easily. Treatment is expensive, sure, but the fact remains that there is a cure, and Miri CAN be fertile again.

@Ieldra2
I agree with you. During the months where you were getting everything ready to hit the Collectors, almost everyone, especially Miranda, were so frigging busy that nobody really had time for a one nighter. Thus Miri's one nighter(only one according to the messages, as she cut off the other three) had to be BEFORE the events of ME2 and the Lazarus project. Besides, Miri gave the guy an address, which would be impossible during ME2 given that everyone lived on the Normandy.

So yes, bioware epic fails at both time/event continuity and research on topics. Bioware, please start proofreading your plots and start doing your research.

Busy? doing what?

Nobody said that address is Mirandas residence address. It can be a temporary place... or Miris personal safe house etc.

[Caihn]

snfonseka wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

The problem remains that Miranda wasn't affiliated with the SR-2 project. The SR-2 was built by a different cell than Miranda's Lazarus team. I wouldn't be surprised if Shepard's first time seeing the completed SR-2 was Miranda's first as well.

If you remember the scene when Shepard, Miranda and Jacob mount on board, it's obvious Miranda and Jacob already know the Normandy. It's them who present the ship to shepard, and they seem to know the ship very well.
Miranda was aware of the project long time before shepard woke up, and I think TIM already told her she would be Shepard's XO on the ship.

But remember that each cell is independent and isolated from each other. I think the higher probability is, TIM will tell what Miranda wants to know at the correct time, not before.... basicaly, in "need to know basis".

The SR2 project is not so independant, and Miranda is a high rank officier who was in charge of the lazarus project. TIM wouldn't hide this to Miranda, she doesn't to know everything but, as she has to be the XO she needs to know a lot of informations about the ship. The name "SR2" : she already knew it, it's certain.

Modifié par Yannkee, 12 septembre 2010 - 08:20 .

[Elyvern]

I'm very curious, and this has been raised in another thread regarding Miranda's dossiers. How many of you find it hard to accept the ipartner thing and the fact that she indulges in casual sex? There was a lot of argument about the timeline, aliases, and details to the point that I felt some people were very adverse to it, and I wonder why.

To me, it's entirely within character, and it seems that people's disapproval stems from the possibility that she could be unfaithful to Shepard (there is absolutely no evidence), or that in having casual sex, she spoils their image of her as a/their LI. But then this ends up becoming an issue about Miranda's compatibility with Shepard, or even with the player, and not about her at all.

@Ieldra - I'm with you. I definitely want Miranda to have kids. Although I do find it quite a slap in the face that LotSB has Shep talk to Liara about blue babies and in the same DLC, take away Miranda's ability to have children. 

@Jebel, fongiel, Arijharn:

Thanks for the feedback. That excerpt is basically just one flashback out of many in the main story. I strongly believe that in many fanfics, the character that has the least character development is actually Shepard. It's fine to play him whatever way you want in-game, but when writing a story, you can't expect to throw in your version of Shepard, and gloss over him and expect that every reader knows how you interpret his character. And it wouldn't be much of a fic if Shep is poorly written. The Shep I'm writing is nothing like the ones I play, I basically look through options and events in the game, and choose the ones that personify the characterisation I want best, make him default (looks & name) so more people can identify with him. 
 
The other thing I was pretty tired of how women fall down at Shep's feet like he's a gift from god. Some things like Tali's infatuation are too obvious to be brushed away, but in my fic, Shep will really have to work to win over Miranda.

Modifié par Elyvern, 12 septembre 2010 - 08:44 .

[Jebel Krong]

Arijharn wrote...

Either way, it's not as if Shephard can claim 'ownership' of Miranda's love life before they're actually a couple... otherwise I may as well claim ownership on Yvonne Strahovski's right now.

Hey! I claimed her in the name of france* years ago - I even brought a flag...




*is not French or affiliated with France in any way.