15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Dave of Canada]

Nightwriter wrote...

But I can't! Not again! The last relapse almost turned me into a Han Olar!

Don't make me do the Han Olar stare.

*stare*

[fongiel24]

Nightwriter wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

Regarding the idea of Oriana bringing up Shepard in her exchange with Miranda, I agree it would have been a neat thing to see but the problem is that Ashley's sister did the exact same thing in ME1. Doing the exact same thing with Miranda would just be blantantly plagiarizing the first game and the Ashley fans would be out for blood.

There are no words to describe how little this matters to me.

It would've been awesome. I could care less whether it's been done before or who it would upset. Everything upsets someone. I don't care. I want some romance-specific dossier content. Everyone should get that.

I think it would have been interesting (and funny) if LotSB had included another entry for Miranda (if she was Shepard's LI), where she's awkwardly soliciting her sister for advice on her relationship.

ML: Ori, does the 'don't call until three days after the first date' rule still apply if the two people are on the same ship?

OL: Um... probably? I don't know. You were on a date?

ML: No, I was just asking a hypothetical question.

OL: ... It was Shepard, wasn't it.

ML: I'm just asking hypothetically! Do you think the first date is too soon to give it up?

OL: ...

[LuxDragon]

^ This is good. I like this.

[HK-90210]

fongiel24 wrote...

The letter from the doctor proves nothing other than the fact that Miranda has a condition that makes her infertile, a condition that may or may not be curable. There's no concrete link between the letter and the iPartner transcripts other than the conclusions we draw from Miranda's screening of health records.

I agree, there is no concrete link. But the fact that the message from the doctor comes after the correspondence(which were ordered from oldest to newest), that seems to imply that she found out she was infertile after her iPartner escapades. There aren't any hard dates on any of the correspondence, so it is impossible to be certain. As I stated in my original message, I believe the iPartner escapades took place during ME2. So a lot of my opinions are based around that assumption, which could very well prove false.

fongiel24 wrote...

Even if they are linked and Miranda was indeed looking for a sperm donor via iPartner (this idea itself also being somewhat implausible considering she could just go to an actual sperm bank), the notion that "rich and successful" automatically equals "best of the best" is flawed.

Becoming rich and successful could mean the candidate was intelligent and capable, but it could also mean they were conscientous, knew the right people, were born into wealth, or were just plain lucky. More ominously, they might be more ruthless, cutthroat, and willing to bend (or break) the law than their competition. None of these traits (other than intelligence) can be passed through DNA. Finding the "ideal" sperm donor on a dating site is as much a case of finding a needle in the proverbial haystack as bringing a DNA scanner into a bar and grabbing the first eligible male.

Part of the reason I think this whole unable-to-conceive thing is such an issue with Miranda is that it is simply another way in which she is not normal. If Miranda was to try to have a child(which I think is the case), I think she would try to do it in the most natural way possible. IMO, she wouldn't want to go to a sperm bank or try other forms of having children because it would be too close to how Miranda's father made her. She would want to do it naturally. It would make her feel better about the whole process, and the child wouldn't have to grow up believing that they were not 'natural'.

I think she would know that the actual medical problem would not be that serious. Miranda is a very intelligent woman, and I think she would call the doctor back and ask all the right questions, and would understand the medical jargon. If us Mass Effect fans can find flaws in the small message from the Illium doctor, I don't think Miranda would have any issue in dismissing the idea that she could never have children.

The logical side of her would dismiss any medical concerns. But IMO, the human side of her would look at it very differently. I think that Miranda would feel like there was something wrong with her as a person, whether that makes sense or not. The feelings of the heart never have to make sense, and if having a child naturally was a big deal to Miranda, I can see her reacting very sensitively.

Also, I was not trying to imply that 'rich and successful' meant 'best of the best'. Just that Miranda would try to narrow the pool of potential 'father candidates. And she would chose the candidates for her child's father carefully. As the chat she has with Oriana implies, she can do background checks be reflex, and the idea that she wouldn't do the same for any man that would be her child's biological father would be very out of character for her. She would eliminate candidates that were ruthless, cutthroat, etc.(and predispositions for that kind of behavior can be passed on to offspring, according to some studies. But this is not the place to get into that debate.)

Modifié par CastonFolarus, 13 septembre 2010 - 05:14 .

[Nightwriter]

ADLegend21 wrote...

I agree with all of nightwriters theories. She'd make sure everyone on the ship knew that She and Shepard were together so ther there were no mistakes or slip ups by anyone.

I'm warning you. I will hurt you. I have a disturbing picture of David Bowie. I will use it. Stop agreeing with the territorial b*tch theory. Stop it right now.

Look at how they have all turned on me, my fellow Mirimancers. And I called them friend. Et tu, Brute? Et tu?

[HK-90210]

fongiel24 wrote...

If Miranda was seeking to conceive, there are far more efficient and less risky ways of doing so. The aforementioned sperm banks would be the most ideal. Even sperm banks in our time screen donors and can often provide very detailed medical records to their customers. As a bonus, it can all be done discretely without Miranda ever having to meet face-to-face with the "father", thus avoiding any awkward questions about her line of work or future visitation rights. The "prowling dating sites because she wants to conceive" idea just makes very little sense. "Prowling dating sites because she was looking for a one-nighter to blow off stress" is far more likely, IMO.

Respectfully, I disagree.

If she were really looking for a 'one-nighter to blow off stress', why wouldn't she just go with Jacob? As he says to Shepard in his romance, he 'likes it light'. And since the two were in a relationship from before that didn't work out, this implies that Miranda wanted something more from him than simply sex. A child, maybe? Jacob was certainly physically healthy enough for her standards. And that is the only thing that the iPartner messages clearly show is a priority for her sexual partners.

t3HPrO wrote...

And also, it's obvious she's going for one-nighters just for the sex because she constantly thinks that everyone's going to die on the suicide mission, and thus it won't make sense that she wants to get pregnant because it takes 9 months for a baby to go full term, and she doesn't have 9 months. At best, she has about 5/6 months.

I would say even less than that. 4 months tops. And I think Miranda would be thinking a lot about her life, and the things she's missed, and the things she hasn't done. As the most 'mature' of all the female LIs in ME, I think she is the only one who would think of children as something she wished she had. And if she figured that she was working with such limited time, what did she have to lose? If she dies on the suicide mission, its all over anyway.

Maybe this is part of the reason why she isn't focused on the mission if you haven't done her loyalty mission. Until she has dealt with Oriana, and has someone to protect, she would want a child. A reason to live, and get through the suicide mission alive. IMO

[Nightwriter]

fongiel24 wrote...

I think it would have been interesting (and funny) if LotSB had included another entry for Miranda (if she was Shepard's LI), where she's awkwardly soliciting her sister for advice on her relationship.

ML: Ori, does the 'don't call until three days after the first date' rule still apply if the two people are on the same ship?

OL: Um... probably? I don't know. You were on a date?

ML: No, I was just asking a hypothetical question.

OL: ... It was Shepard, wasn't it.

ML: I'm just asking hypothetically! Do you think the first date is too soon to give it up?

OL: ...

Not even Han Olar's stare could ruin the nerdgasm this gave me.

[snfonseka]

fongiel24 wrote...

I think it would have been interesting (and funny) if LotSB had included another entry for Miranda (if she was Shepard's LI), where she's awkwardly soliciting her sister for advice on her relationship.

ML: Ori, does the 'don't call until three days after the first date' rule still apply if the two people are on the same ship?

OL: Um... probably? I don't know. You were on a date?

ML: No, I was just asking a hypothetical question.

OL: ... It was Shepard, wasn't it.

ML: I'm just asking hypothetically! Do you think the first date is too soon to give it up?

OL: Err...Anyway I don't think I am the best person who can give any dating advices.

ML: Who asked for dating advices ? I just asked an question...
OL: Realy? I wasn't born yesterday, sis! So how was the date :innocent:?

ML: How many times do I have to tell you? NOTHING HAPPENED !!!!
OL: OK. So nothing happened in the first date and you are frustrated about that. Now I understand .....

ML: SIS !!!!!!!

Modifié par snfonseka, 13 septembre 2010 - 05:25 .

[Nightwriter]

CastonFolarus wrote...

If she were really looking for a 'one-nighter to blow off stress', why wouldn't she just go with Jacob?

He is her subordinate, she is strict about professional lines, their relationship went down in flames and it would be more awkward and painful than enjoyable.

[Dave of Canada]

Nightwriter wrote...

CastonFolarus wrote...

If she were really looking for a 'one-nighter to blow off stress', why wouldn't she just go with Jacob?

He is her subordinate, she is strict about professional lines, their relationship went down in flames and it would be more awkward and painful than enjoyable.

... but the prrriiize.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 13 septembre 2010 - 05:35 .

[fongiel24]

CastonFolarus wrote...

Respectfully, I disagree.

If she were really looking for a 'one-nighter to blow off stress', why wouldn't she just go with Jacob? As he says to Shepard in his romance, he 'likes it light'. And since the two were in a relationship from before that didn't work out, this implies that Miranda wanted something more from him than simply sex. A child, maybe? Jacob was certainly physically healthy enough for her standards. And that is the only thing that the iPartner messages clearly show is a priority for her sexual partners.

t3HPrO wrote...

And also, it's obvious she's going for one-nighters just for the sex because she constantly thinks that everyone's going to die on the suicide mission, and thus it won't make sense that she wants to get pregnant because it takes 9 months for a baby to go full term, and she doesn't have 9 months. At best, she has about 5/6 months.

I would say even less than that. 4 months tops. And I think Miranda would be thinking a lot about her life, and the things she's missed, and the things she hasn't done. As the most 'mature' of all the female LIs in ME, I think she is the only one who would think of children as something she wished she had. And if she figured that she was working with such limited time, what did she have to lose? If she dies on the suicide mission, its all over anyway.

Maybe this is part of the reason why she isn't focused on the mission if you haven't done her loyalty mission. Until she has dealt with Oriana, and has someone to protect, she would want a child. A reason to live, and get through the suicide mission alive. IMO

The problem with Jacob is that, well, he's Jacob. I don't mean this to put down Jacob, I mean she has to work with him and see him everyday. They also have history. Miranda might be confident that she can keep it at a strictly physical relationship, but can she be confident that Jacob will be able to do the same? Sleeping with Jacob could throw a wrench in teamwork and distract him when he can least afford to be distracted.

Trying to conceive while on the suicide mission doesn't make much sense, considering Miranda is well-aware of the stakes. She would want to be at her best and prepared for anything. How's she supposed to do that when she's suffering from morning sickness, cramps, and all the other joys of pregnancy?

Regarding why she would want to have a child, there aren't very many good reasons. "Having something to live for" seems an unlikely reason because she states that she doesn't expect to survive anyways. Completing the mission is the priority - survival is just an afterthought. Being the most "mature" isn't great either because Miranda really isn't that old by ME standards. In the novels it's stated that women can conceive into their 70s and 80s. Miranda might even be able to hold off until later since she ages 50% slower. Her biological clock isn't exactly ticking down.

[Nightwriter]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

CastonFolarus wrote...

If she were really looking for a 'one-nighter to blow off stress', why wouldn't she just go with Jacob?

He is her subordinate, she is strict about professional lines, their relationship went down in flames and it would be more awkward and painful than enjoyable.

... but the prrriiize.

I think this has something to do with why the relationship went down in flames.

Tell a woman who has been objectified all her life and treated like a trophy horse that she's "the priiize", and I'm thinking it won't go down so well.

What am I saying? Tell it to any woman and it won't go down so well.

[fongiel24]

Nightwriter wrote...

I think this has something to do with why the relationship went down in flames.

Tell a woman who has been objectified all her life and treated like a trophy horse that she's "the priiize", and I'm thinking it won't go down so well.

What am I saying? Tell it to any woman and it won't go down so well.

What?! But that approach always seemed to work on the girls in Fornax! What about that one where the omnitool repair guy tells the bondmate how much he admires her azure, cueing the steamy music and the sexytime?

[Dave of Canada]

Nightwriter wrote...

What am I saying? Tell it to any woman and it won't go down so well.

Worked well for Jacob to the 3-4 people who romanced him legit.

Modifié par Dave of Canada, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:04 .

[HK-90210]

fongiel24 wrote...

The problem with Jacob is that, well, he's Jacob.

Touché, fongiel, touché.

fongiel24 wrote...


Trying to conceive while on the suicide mission doesn't make much sense, considering Miranda is well-aware of the stakes. She would want to be at her best and prepared for anything. How's she supposed to do that when she's suffering from morning sickness, cramps, and all the other joys of pregnancy?

Regarding why she would want to have a child, there aren't very many good reasons. "Having something to live for" seems an unlikely reason because she states that she doesn't expect to survive anyways. Completing the mission is the priority - survival is just an afterthought. Being the most "mature" isn't great either because Miranda really isn't that old by ME standards. In the novels it's stated that women can conceive into their 70s and 80s. Miranda might even be able to hold off until later since she ages 50% slower. Her biological clock isn't exactly ticking down.

I wasn't talking about maturity as in physical age. I'm talking about where she is on a mental/emotional level. If you compare Miranda with Liara, Tali, Jack and Ashley, Ashley is the only one who comes close to Miranda's maturity level. And Miranda is the only one of the bunch that I can see seriously thinking about children at the beginning of ME2.

While I do agree with you that conceiving while on the suicide misison would be a bad idea, if one accepts that Miranda was engaging in the iPartner escapades during ME2, and she hears about her infertility afterward(which are my assumptions, which may, as I've said, turn out to be wrong), it is hard to see sex as being her only motive. 

Miranda could get most any man she wanted, and if she didn't want to disrupt the team, there are... other methods for that kind of stress relief that do not require the assistance of others. Not a full substitute for the real thing, but they can work in a pinch.

Especially when she turns down a guy for having "Shintonial Abraxas". Which as far as I can tell has something to do with his shins and a fictional cosmic entity in the Marvel Comics' universe. If sex were her motive, that condition would have to be a form of STD or communicable desease, which we can never verify based on the wording alone. Only context.

DAMN YOU BIOWARE FOR YOUR AMBIGUOUSNESS!

Modifié par CastonFolarus, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:30 .

[Arijharn]

Hmm, I do see the correlation between the sexcapades and the events of ME2, I mean, nothing concrete of course but what is it called? 'circumstancial' evidence? It's written in such a way that it's natural to conclude that Miranda was getting attention at the time, and maybe she was concerned that she would get pregnant.



Now I feel slightly inadequate in that Miranda didn't immediately think of my maleshep...



I don't know why people argue that this couldn't be the case because this isn't rational, Miranda herself says 'what stupid bunch of hormones thought that this was a good time to fall in love?' which flies in the face of her objective mind and lets be brutually honest here; in a male's experience who a woman falls in love with is hardly an intellectual decision. (I'm better looking than him, I have a decent job and he's an ****!)



BioWare writers are cruel, they just knew this would cause discussion, and those bastards ( ) have purposely put us in a position to write pages upon pages of speculation about it and whether it has any deeper meaning knowing full well that if there are any answers it would have to wait till the next post-suicide mission dlc however many months down the line, or for ME3 itself which will be many more.



Frustration! (I guess)



I hope Miranda does manage to conceive later though, it would be awesome in the sense of making the stakes more personal for them both.

[HK-90210]

Arijharn wrote...

BioWare writers are cruel, they just knew this would cause discussion, and those bastards ( ) have purposely put us in a position to write pages upon pages of speculation about it and whether it has any deeper meaning knowing full well that if there are any answers it would have to wait till the next post-suicide mission dlc however many months down the line, or for ME3 itself which will be many more.

My God, we've already fallen into their trap. It's too late for us. But maybe, just maybe, the Jacob fans can be saved.

Edit: Oh wait... I'm one of those too! I've got to get out of here! Too much serious irrational discussion!

Modifié par CastonFolarus, 13 septembre 2010 - 06:43 .

[Ieldra]

snfonseka wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
As I've said, I interpret this dating to have taken place before the SR2 mission, and the SR2 in the online name a f*uckup on Bioware's part. Problem circumvented - for those for whom this is an issue. It's not,
for me.

But we can't have our own imaginations about this... We can have our own imaginations/ fictions for the areas that have not described in the game. Whether BW f*ckup or not, ones any detail is given in the game about any character then that detail automaticaly becomes part of that characters story. We may don't like this idea, but BW writers have authority to do what ever things they want to do (That I don't like myself, given what they have done to Miri), but that is the bitter truth.

Actually, that's not correct. Because of the simple fact that (a) in-game information can be incorrrect or misleading if it is given by in-game characters, and ( if things don't make sense, all bets are off. Sometimes you can work around it, as with Miranda being a biotic even though she couldn't be given the info in the Codex, but sometimes the most reasonable choice is to ignore a piece of information.

Bioware is something like a flawed god in this. They have the authority to do whatever they like, but the results are still under the constraints of logic and consistency, and Bioware has failed the checks on seveeral counts. There are any number of scenarios that fit the information we're given, and we try to integrate it by using Occam's Razor and everything we've already accepted as knowledge - about the world and its creators - before. And one of the pieces we have is that Bioware isn't that good - in fact, is notably bad - at anything having to do with space/time consistency in the ME universe.

The result: if any scenario with major inconsitencies can be made plausible by moving events in time, we are justified in giving this solution preferential treatment, even if it results in minor inconsistencies in other places.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 13 septembre 2010 - 07:23 .

[t3HPrO]

Nightwriter wrote...

3. Vibrations from the engine core. Great for sex.

The fourth theory is the one that is not supported by Mirimancers: namely, that she was marking her territory and shoving it in everyone's faces, including Tali's.

LMAO I agree with these two. Eat it, you immature schoolgirl crusher in a tin bucket.

[Ieldra]

Nightwriter wrote...

Dave of Canada wrote...

One thing about the Miranda romance that always bothers me... Why the engineering deck?

You realize we ignored this because it has been brought up to us so often it is now mildly traumatizing.

It's either ignore it or spend five hours in the fetal position. How we loathe going back to the fetal position.

Or you could just point him to....

The Miranda Lawson FAQ
"Vulnerable", by jtav

BTW: Updated the FAQ with the rationalization of selecting the engine room presented in jtav's FAQ. Still not sure about how to deal with the fertility issue, so that will have to wait.

[Ieldra]

Nightwriter wrote...

ADLegend21 wrote...

I agree with all of nightwriters theories. She'd make sure everyone on the ship knew that She and Shepard were together so ther there were no mistakes or slip ups by anyone.

I'm warning you. I will hurt you. I have a disturbing picture of David Bowie. I will use it. Stop agreeing with the territorial b*tch theory. Stop it right now.

Look at how they have all turned on me, my fellow Mirimancers. And I called them friend. Et tu, Brute? Et tu?

I don't have an armament of pictures, but I'm prepared to use the biggest verbal cannon that won't get me banned to disintegrate the "territorial b*tch" theory and anyone who supports it.

[Ieldra]

snfonseka wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

I think it would have been interesting (and funny) if LotSB had included another entry for Miranda (if she was Shepard's LI), where she's awkwardly soliciting her sister for advice on her relationship.

ML: Ori, does the 'don't call until three days after the first date' rule still apply if the two people are on the same ship?

OL: Um... probably? I don't know. You were on a date?

ML: No, I was just asking a hypothetical question.

OL: ... It was Shepard, wasn't it.

ML: I'm just asking hypothetically! Do you think the first date is too soon to give it up?

OL: Err...Anyway I don't think I am the best person who can give any dating advices.

ML: Who asked for dating advices ? I just asked an question...
OL: Realy? I wasn't born yesterday, sis! So how was the date :innocent:?

ML: How many times do I have to tell you? NOTHING HAPPENED !!!!
OL: OK. So nothing happened in the first date and you are frustrated about that. Now I understand .....

ML: SIS !!!!!!!

This had me ROTFL. Almost literally. Can't...write.....:lol:

Modifié par Ieldra2, 13 septembre 2010 - 07:36 .

[kraidy1117]

Dave of Canada wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...

What am I saying? Tell it to any woman and it won't go down so well.

Worked well for Jacob to the 3-4 people who romanced him legit.

People romanced Jacob?

[KendallX23]

yes kraidy..people romanced Jacob..all my single female Sheps did that..not a fan of thane or Garrus romance...

[kraidy1117]

KendallX23 wrote...

yes kraidy..people romanced Jacob..all my single female Sheps did that..not a fan of thane or Garrus romance...

Romance Kai or Liara