15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Caihn]

I can easily imagine my Shepard also saying something like that.

And also this :

Modifié par Yannkee, 13 septembre 2010 - 07:13 .

[jtav]

Mine's currently rocketing through the five stages of grief. He really wants kids. I have vague ideas for a story, but it's depressing enough that I doubt my ability to write it.

[Ieldra]

Yannkee wrote...
The only thing about Miranda I take seriously in LotSB, is this :
[embedded video of Liara talking with Shepard about Miranda in LotSB snipped]

That has to be one of my favorite moments in the Miranda romance, even though it isn't part of it.

As for the dossiers, you said you had an opinion. Let's hear it.

@all:
It seems more and more people here are disinclined to take the dossier seriously, just as I am. Good. Very good.

[jtav]

I take the basic fact of her infertility seriously. I just changed the reason. I admit to throwing out the iPartners bit because it was so odd however I looked at it. The Miranda-Oriana coversation I keep unaltered.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Broke down and actually played LotSB.

Why did you have to break down to play LotSB?

Wow. I think I'm in love with Liara now. I'd hate to have to choose between her and Miranda. We've picked over the dossiers, so I won't say much about that except to note that she was targeted as a possible recruitment candidate once TIM was assassinated. I don't think she would have ever accepted, not after Redemption. I did like the short scene with Liara. Shepard's thoughts on Miranda are very sweet and put to rest any niggling doubts that this is just a fling. I think it actually plays better in terms of Miranda's romance if you do LotSB after walking in her romance but before the suicide mission. Shepard has read the dossier and he doesn't care. It brings a new meaning to "Oh I'm definitely interested."

Now that you say it, I can only agree. I have to try this - I have still one maleShep to replay because I deleted all saved games, annoyed by some decisions I made, if you can believe that.

Can't wait to do it with my Shepard that romanced Liara. Miranda isn't the only LI who comes close to being Shepard's equal anymore.

I'm not sure if I should be glad that Miranda has got a worthy rival , but I do agree LotSB has done a lot for Liara, not only in terms of plot power but also in character. I like that there's a deep friendship between Shepard and Liara, and in a completely plausible way after all that's happened, even if you romance someone else.

[jtav]

I was trying to wait until after the suicide mission, but I couldn't resist. Once I confirmed that locking in the romance was sufficient to trigger the conversation, I gave up. And I'm glad Miranda has a worthy rival because I now have two characters I can fangirl shamelessly.

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

Mine's currently rocketing through the five stages of grief. He really wants kids. I have vague ideas for a story, but it's depressing enough that I doubt my ability to write it.

Mine is the opposite. He actually really doesn't want kids (he doesn't think he would make a good father, considering the things he's seen and done). If Miranda wants kids, he's willing to consider it to make her happy, but he still has a lot of doubts. He would never admit it to her and he hates to admit it to himself, but the revelation of possibly incurable infertility is a relief for him.

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...
The only thing about Miranda I take seriously in LotSB, is this :
[embedded video of Liara talking with Shepard about Miranda in LotSB snipped]

That has to be one of my favorite moments in the Miranda romance, even though it isn't part of it.

As for the dossiers, you said you had an opinion. Let's hear it.

@all:
It seems more and more people here are disinclined to take the dossier seriously, just as I am. Good. Very good.

I take all the dossiers seriously, with the caveat that I'm reserving the right to retcon parts that don't fit/are implausible/illogical/OOC/etc. For Miranda's, I'm changing her iPartner username and moving all of the transcripts to years before Lazarus. I'm not sure where I want to put the doctor's letter, although I will be altering the cause of Miranda's infertility to something less easily curable. I might put the doctor's letter after Miranda's loyalty mission, with the rationale being that seeing Oriana and her family made her start thinking about life outside of her work.

[Jebel Krong]

frankly my shep has no intention of having kids, and hasn't even considered it. personally i play games to get away from that kind of stuff, so if it's brought up again i won't be pleased, but will deal with it accordingly (i guess like real life, too - ha),

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...
frankly my shep has no intention of having kids, and hasn't even considered it. personally i play games to get away from that kind of stuff, so if it's brought up again i won't be pleased, but will deal with it accordingly (i guess like real life, too - ha),

That's basically how I'm usually playing games. I actually tend to be allergic to too much family stuff coming up in games, because it often buries interesting plotlines under a heap of inconsequential personal conflicts which should have no business interfering with the plot. ME2 isn't exactly innocent in this regard - the Reapers are coming and Shepard wastes time solving everyone's personal problems, most of which are completely unrelated to the plot.

On the other side, doing personal stuff for someone you love is completely natural, even, perhaps even especially, in dark times such as these. That's why I like romances added to the story, as long as they don't dominate it (heh, I'm one to talk, but I'm actually concerned with Miranda as a character. The romance is just an added bonus)

So I started out with my Shepards who didn't want a family, and that basic fact hasn't changed. But it's very obvious to me that Miranda would want children, and if I take my romances seriously, I must think about whether or not my Shepards will change their minds, and if they do, when and why.

[Elyvern]

Ieldra2 wrote...
On the other side, doing personal stuff for someone you love is completely natural, even, perhaps even especially, in dark times such as these. That's why I like romances added to the story, as long as they don't dominate it (heh, I'm one to talk, but I'm actually concerned with Miranda as a character. The romance is just an added bonus)

Relevant for ME1 and 2, and in actual fact, Bioware has done a brilliant job in not letting the romances overwhelm the storyline (or you can argue that there is in actual fact, too little romance). But once the path to the conclusion of ME3 and a victory over the reapers is decided upon, there is a lot of leeway to delve into the characters. Like if Shepard will live or die, the different epilogues with various LIs. They could be extremely sappy, with kids in tow, Shep dying without knowing he has a child coming, and all that, and it wouldn't detract from the quality of the game at all.

In fact, it wouldn't be hard to control the outcome of the epilogue with your LI with some decision you make earlier in the game, so the saps among us can get our kicks, while the rest can opt for a *ahem* more respectable and proper ending.

I'd be inclined to agree that the romance is an added bonus, if not for the inability to progression a relationship, friendship or othewise, with various LIs unless you're the opposite gender to them putting a wrench to that notion. It's like half-way into the game, these characters have nothing left to say to you. I wish they'd written more dialogue for people like Jacob, Thane and Garrus especially if I was maleshep for example. Something along the line of Mordin's wealth of dialogue would help immensely. 

Modifié par Elyvern, 13 septembre 2010 - 09:47 .

[jtav]

I find the personal-scale conflicts much more interesting than the main plot, which I find dull and am only putting up with for the sake of the personal plots. I'm much more interested in how Mordin deals with his guilt or Miranda coming to terms with her creation. The SB plot was the only thread tha interested me and then, mostly for Liara's sake.

[Aedan_Cousland]

jtav wrote...

Mine's currently rocketing through the five stages of grief. He really wants kids. I have vague ideas for a story, but it's depressing enough that I doubt my ability to write it.

Does Shepard even survive to have kids?

[jtav]

Aedan_Cousland wrote...

jtav wrote...

Mine's currently rocketing through the five stages of grief. He really wants kids. I have vague ideas for a story, but it's depressing enough that I doubt my ability to write it.

Does Shepard even survive to have kids?

In my story? It's worse than that. He's outwardly the supportive boyfriend, but inwardly devastated. He and Miranda get a tip that her father has made another daughter, and they head off to rescue her. When they get there, they find Lawson has changed the DNA template. He's borrowed substantial DNA from Shepard. The daughter is in essence Shepard's biological daughter. She's what Shepard and Miranda would get if they could have children. But, of course, they can't keep her because the Reapers are still out there.

[jtav]

Shepard is actually more or less irrelevant to my dream epilogue of Miranda taking over and reforming Cerberus. I tend to fob him off on Tali when I try to imagine a future or go with my "canon" FemShep. Miranda gets either Kaidan or Liara. There's a child in there at some point. She and her partner are very happy.

[fongiel24]

Miranda's my favourite character in the ME series but I never pair her off with anybody other than Shepard because Shepard is the prism through which I see her. I get to mould Miranda's relationship by moulding Shepard - something I can't do as much with other characters without being accused of writing them OOC.

If I had to pair her though, the only character I'd pair her with is Liara. I would consider Kaidan except I have this deep hatred for Carth Onasi that I can't entirely explain. If it wasn't for his being voiced by Raphael Sbarge, I would probably like Kaidan a lot more.

[jtav]

fongiel24 wrote...

Miranda's my favourite character in the ME series but I never pair her off with anybody other than Shepard because Shepard is the prism through which I see her. I get to mould Miranda's relationship by moulding Shepard - something I can't do as much with other characters without being accused of writing them OOC.

If I had to pair her though, the only character I'd pair her with is Liara. I would consider Kaidan except I have this deep hatred for Carth Onasi that I can't entirely explain. If it wasn't for his being voiced by Raphael Sbarge, I would probably like Kaidan a lot more.

I'm used to shipping characters with fixed personalities. Shepard, as a blank slate, is harder to get attached to, and therefore harder to ship with anyone in the way I'm used to. He usually ends up a plot device, or I take him pretty far outside what the game permits. It's actually fun to use characters to bring out different aspects of her. Her Cerberus affiliation is much more dominant necause that's where the conflict would lie. With Liara, I focus more on her difficulty forming personal connections and the way they tend to blow up in her face (Niket) when she does. And I have more freedom when I'm not doing a canon romance. The downside is that I need to do the development myself, which means the stories are long and intimidating. It's much easier, if less satisfying, to write Shep/Miranda.

Modifié par jtav, 14 septembre 2010 - 12:57 .

[t3HPrO]

SPOILER ALERT FOR MY FIC:

Oriana wasn't created, and Miranda made a mistake about that and she finds out about it the hard way. This will be a few chapters down the road. Ever wondered why Oriana didn't have Miranda's assets? That's why.

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

I'm used to shipping characters with fixed personalities. Shepard, as a blank slate, is harder to get attached to, and therefore harder to ship with anyone in the way I'm used to. He usually ends up a plot device, or I take him pretty far outside what the game permits. It's actually fun to use characters to bring out different aspects of her. Her Cerberus affiliation is much more dominant necause that's where the conflict would lie. With Liara, I focus more on her difficulty forming personal connections and the way they tend to blow up in her face (Niket) when she does. And I have more freedom when I'm not doing a canon romance. The downside is that I need to do the development myself, which means the stories are long and intimidating. It's much easier, if less satisfying, to write Shep/Miranda.

Your last point is interesting because I actually find it to be the opposite for me - it's more challenging for me to write Shepard/Miranda than Miranda/character x. Writing Shepard for me means starting from scratch from the blank slate Bioware has given me, almost like creating a completely original character. I can't assume the reader knows anything so Shepard has to be fully fleshed out before I can even begin to throw him together with Miranda. In a way it's frustrating because I have to establish a lot of the groundwork before I get to the good bits but it's also incredibly satisfying to put together a three-dimensional Shepard myself.

[t3HPrO]

jtav wrote...

I take the basic fact of her infertility seriously. I just changed the reason. I admit to throwing out the iPartners bit because it was so odd however I looked at it. The Miranda-Oriana coversation I keep unaltered.

The infertility IS a farce. 5 minutes on wikipedia'll tell you that it's easily curable even with today's med tech. But you could make it expensive to cure for good, and Miranda is reluctant to spend so much on herself, but Shepard insists on helping Miranda get better. Or something like that. In my fic's next chapter, Miranda gets cured by good ol' Doc Mordin, but she balks at the cost.

[t3HPrO]

snfonseka wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

I think it would have been interesting (and funny) if LotSB had included another entry for Miranda (if she was Shepard's LI), where she's awkwardly soliciting her sister for advice on her relationship.

ML: Ori, does the 'don't call until three days after the first date' rule still apply if the two people are on the same ship?

OL: Um... probably? I don't know. You were on a date?

ML: No, I was just asking a hypothetical question.

OL: ... It was Shepard, wasn't it.

ML: I'm just asking hypothetically! Do you think the first date is too soon to give it up?

OL: Err...Anyway I don't think I am the best person who can give any dating advices.

ML: Who asked for dating advices ? I just asked an question...
OL: Realy? I wasn't born yesterday, sis! So how was the date :innocent:?

ML: How many times do I have to tell you? NOTHING HAPPENED !!!!
OL: OK. So nothing happened in the first date and you are frustrated about that. Now I understand .....

ML: SIS !!!!!!!

ML: So...have you ever been on a date before?

OL: OF COURSE...duh. I'm not a nun.

ML: Ok...so did you...um...you know...on the first date?

OL: OMG you got plowed by COMMANDER SHEPARD on your FIRST DATE! OMGLOL You're AWESOME! Commander SHEPARD and you...wow.

ML: NO!! SIS I DID NOT GET PLOWED OR WHATEVER ON MY FIRST DATE!!!

OL: Riiighhtttt...come on. I wasn't born yesterday. I KNOW you and Shepard got dirty

ML: NONONONO I DID NOT!

OL: Liar liar pants on fire!

ML: Okay fine...we made love. Happy?

OL: OOOOHHH you and Shepard made passionate love all night long! OMG I'm SO jealous! Miri and Shepard sitting on a tree, K-I-S-S-I-N-G! And then they M-A-D-E P-A-S-S-I-O-N-A-T-E L-O-V-E on the tree!

ML: STOP IT!!!

OL: Aww c'mon...that's so sweet!

ML: And you're totally juvenile.

OL: ,,l,,

ML: What is that?

OL: Nevermind.

ML: ...WHAT THE!

OL: Oops gotta go!

ML: ORIANA LAWSON I AM GOING TO KICK YOUR BUTT WHEN I SEE YOU AGA-

[OL has disconnected]

[t3HPrO]

jtav wrote...

I think I've decided what to do about the dossiers, at least for fanfic. I'll try to keep to the spirit of the information, but change the details. She's infertile, but because the same set of operations that gave her biotics also damaged her eggs. I'm scrapping iPartners altogether and replacing it with a few people she has an arrangement with, supplemented with the occasional picking people up in upscale places like Eternity. Saves me a few headaches.

And here's one for the FAQ: "Using a dating service for casual sex makes her a sl*t." *seethes*

Numero Uno: I prefer your explanation for why Miranda's infertile. But, with Mordin around...EVERYTHING'S curable.

Numero 2: It isn't so much her use of the dating service, it's how bioware puts her down as going about it.

[Minbari12]

I think it would be interesting if Miranda’s LotSB dossier
is a part of her spy trade.  Perhaps
there is hidden data in the medical files she asks for.  She could also use iPartners to arrange a meeting
with an informant or send them a coded message. 
Finally, she could be trying to trick her father into thinking that
there is a latent genetic defect with his cloned daughters so he won’t attempt
to make any more.

Of course, I could just be giving BioWare too much
credit here…

[jtav]

Not everything is curable, or curable easily, even with 22nd century tech. If Miranda's eggs have been damaged, that's it. She isn't going to naturally create more. In a strange way, I wish it had been a malignant tumor that she'd had removed. It would be much easier to accept she's infertile. As I said, I accept the basic fact of her infertility. I rather like it actually, (From a narrative standpoint. On a more emotional level, I want the galaxy to give her a break)

[t3HPrO]

Minbari12 wrote...



I think it would be interesting if Miranda’s LotSB dossier
is a part of her spy trade.  Perhaps
there is hidden data in the medical files she asks for.  She could also use iPartners to arrange a meeting
with an informant or send them a coded message. 
Finally, she could be trying to trick her father into thinking that
there is a latent genetic defect with his cloned daughters so he won’t attempt
to make any more.

Of course, I could just be giving BioWare too much
credit here…

Yeah! Why didn't we think of that! It could've been coded messages, given how ridiculous most of it is. After all, it's been done IRL, so why not here?

[t3HPrO]

jtav wrote...

Not everything is curable, or curable easily, even with 22nd century tech. If Miranda's eggs have been damaged, that's it. She isn't going to naturally create more. In a strange way, I wish it had been a malignant tumor that she'd had removed. It would be much easier to accept she's infertile. As I said, I accept the basic fact of her infertility. I rather like it actually, (From a narrative standpoint. On a more emotional level, I want the galaxy to give her a break)

Remember, Mordin loves challenges. And if he could make birth rates an ENTIRE race drop through the floor, I don't see why he couldn't cure Miranda, who is ONE PERFECT WOMAN. And besides, if you can raise a man from the dead, who's to say you can't cure infertility?