15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

The question is how. Artificial gametogenesis should be no problem at all for 22nd century tech, but the fact would remain that Miranda is not *naturally* fertile. I think that would matter to her. For people like me who care about the transhumanism angle, the important aspect would be that Miranda is genetically fertile, i.e. that her condition isn't genetic. From that angle, it would be enough for the bigger picture if Oriana is naturally fertile, but since I do like Miranda (surprise), I want her to be happy with whoever she chooses to be with, lead a life that gives her the challenge she craves, including having children if she wants, or not, and have the role as a symbol for humanity's future at the same time. Once she's come to terms with how she was created, I think she'd appreciate the irony thereof.

coming from a transhumanist angle - part of transhumanism is overcoming biological shortages with technology or biological engineering, from that side of it it doesn't matter if she's (or anyone for that matter) naturally fertile as long as they can be made to be so that viable reproduction can continue. it's not ideal but then technology is always improving.

I know, but my take on transhumanism is a bit different. The problem is that it's usually not a good idea for a species to entirely depend on advanced technology for procreation. For that reason it is desirable to incorporate any improvements into the genetic template if possible and remain naturally fertile. Also, Miranda is a symbol. Her existence proves to everyone that applying genetic engineering to humans can result in a genetically feasible human V2.0 with very desirable traits. An infertile Miranda couldn't do that.

[Caihn]

 Found on deviant art :




http://velvetrue.dev...awson-179371121

[jtav]

Very nice. I wish I could draw.



It's not quite ready, but would there be any interest in a Miranda/Liara teaser in the coming days? I've started work again. Maybe this time I can produce something publishable. I don't get it. Shepard/Miranda is easy for me to write, despite the fact that I'm ambivalent at best. This is hell, despite the fact that I love the idea of these two together.

Modifié par jtav, 15 septembre 2010 - 10:43 .

[Ieldra]

Chapter 3 of "Promethean Legacy" is up. Wherein, among other things:

*Miranda displays some ruthlessness
*She sees her sister, as the result of which she attempts some high-tech smuggling
*She says farewell to Niket
*CAE's computers exhibit some strange behaviour, as the result of which Miranda jumps from a 2km-high tower...

In Chapter 4, tentatively titled "Crossing the Styx", Miranda will make a deal with a Cerberus agent and leave Earth. Interference by other interested parties seems likely.

(At the time I'm posting this, it's possible there are two mistakes left in Chapter 3 since the corrected version has been published, but doesn't show yet - §$%-delay)

Edit:
A lot of fanfic coming up these days. Nice. Yes, jtav, I'd like to read a Miranda/Liara excerpt. And please tell if your Miranda/Shepard story is published.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 15 septembre 2010 - 11:07 .

[Andysilv]

Yannkee wrote...

 Found on deviant art :




http://velvetrue.dev...awson-179371121

That is lovely.

[Arijharn]

I hope this doesn't come off as incredibly hostile because that isn't my intent, but I have to get this off my chest. I don't like fanfiction that totally destroys the established soul, for a want of a better word, of a character. If this is your fanfiction, then you may as well just make an entirely new character and insert it into the world.



A fanfiction that centres on Miranda would have, as I'd expect, established traits of Miranda's identity and character. To be honest, the concept of Miranda falling for someone like Thane or Liara, or Garrus of hell an Elcor diplomat (Xeltan?) for example is just so bizarre to what I've come to expect from interacting with Miranda during the game then you may as well just call her Shelly instead.



As I see it, Miranda doesn't hate aliens at all, but I don't see her as someone who falls in love and sleeps with them either (although I admit that this is just as much conjecture as the other way around... but Miranda doesn't strike me as being as... loving, as Kelly either). I may be guilty of projecting here though because while I would totally have my Shephard take bullets for my bromance that is Garrus, a loving relationship with intimacy with an alien species is, well, an alien concept to me if you'd pardon the pun.



For much the same reason, the idea of Miranda being absolutely full of 'puppy dog love' in regards to Shephard to the point of outwardly displaying it at all times is something I also have trouble relating to her character. She strikes me personally as someone who keeps her cards close to her chest. Willing and able to show intimacy and her degree of care to Shephard periodically but may actually hesitate with just coming out and say: "I love you" to him.



I have a lot of respect for those who do write fan fiction though (I've entertained the notion, but honestly I'm probably to much of a self profectionist and probably insist on reading a draft or two before sendign it to a friend or two for them to check before publishing it) it's just, I sometimes get the feeling that I'm not reading a story necessarily about Miranda, but about someone's idealized version of her, which quite frankly isn't as interesting to me personally.

[Arijharn]

Wow... dare I say it saying all that was cathartic.

[t3HPrO]

jtav wrote...

Very nice. I wish I could draw.



It's not quite ready, but would there be any interest in a Miranda/Liara teaser in the coming days? I've started work again. Maybe this time I can produce something publishable. I don't get it. Shepard/Miranda is easy for me to write, despite the fact that I'm ambivalent at best. This is hell, despite the fact that I love the idea of these two together.

I'm in. Although Miranda/Samara would be a lot hotter, Liara'll do just fine.

[t3HPrO]

Yannkee wrote...

 Found on deviant art :




http://velvetrue.dev...awson-179371121

+++Repped so hard it ain't funny anymore. And how do you put pics on your posts and sig? Haven't figured it out yet.

[t3HPrO]

sniper1250 wrote...

I have a question, why do so many people think that Miranda desperately wants kids?

Miranda WANTS kids, that much we know. However, how BADLY she wants kids is where it starts to get fuzzy, and personal conjectures come in. And no, we didn't base it off the iPartner bulls#!t, given that the iPartner was so stupid and OOC that we threw it aside like the infertility bullcrap. Like I've said dozens of times before, Miranda's condition is so easily cured even with today's med science it isn't even a problem to begin with. Bioware should ask its writers to research before they put somthing ingame. 5 mins wiki-ing about Miri's problem will tell you that the writers don't do their research, and the ME timeline is even more proof the damn writers are slacking off.

[jtav]

I'm not tossing anything aside. Miranda is infertile and used a dating service at some point. This we know (despite what I said earlier about no taking the dating service as canon, mea culpa). I'm much more comfortable massaging the time line than disregarding events entirely.



As for non-canon pairings, they are not, on their face, implausible. I'm working very hard to make sure Miranda is still Miranda: cold, ruthless, and brilliant. These things don't change because she's sleeping with Liara or Thane. I have to ask myself what draws the two characters together and come up with an answer that satisfies me. "It's hot" isn't good enough. If I'm doing my job right, my readers will believe the characters will make a good couple just as much as I do.

[Throw_this_away]

Arijharn wrote...

I hope this doesn't come off as incredibly hostile because that isn't my intent, but I have to get this off my chest. I don't like fanfiction that totally destroys the established soul, for a want of a better word, of a character. If this is your fanfiction, then you may as well just make an entirely new character and insert it into the world.

A fanfiction that centres on Miranda would have, as I'd expect, established traits of Miranda's identity and character. To be honest, the concept of Miranda falling for someone like Thane or Liara, or Garrus of hell an Elcor diplomat (Xeltan?) for example is just so bizarre to what I've come to expect from interacting with Miranda during the game then you may as well just call her Shelly instead.

As I see it, Miranda doesn't hate aliens at all, but I don't see her as someone who falls in love and sleeps with them either (although I admit that this is just as much conjecture as the other way around... but Miranda doesn't strike me as being as... loving, as Kelly either). I may be guilty of projecting here though because while I would totally have my Shephard take bullets for my bromance that is Garrus, a loving relationship with intimacy with an alien species is, well, an alien concept to me if you'd pardon the pun.

For much the same reason, the idea of Miranda being absolutely full of 'puppy dog love' in regards to Shephard to the point of outwardly displaying it at all times is something I also have trouble relating to her character. She strikes me personally as someone who keeps her cards close to her chest. Willing and able to show intimacy and her degree of care to Shephard periodically but may actually hesitate with just coming out and say: "I love you" to him.

I have a lot of respect for those who do write fan fiction though (I've entertained the notion, but honestly I'm probably to much of a self profectionist and probably insist on reading a draft or two before sendign it to a friend or two for them to check before publishing it) it's just, I sometimes get the feeling that I'm not reading a story necessarily about Miranda, but about someone's idealized version of her, which quite frankly isn't as interesting to me personally.

1. I agree: make it plausable, and based/influenced by known facts or make a new character.
2. I disagree: Why not be creative and be different.  Build on a character.  They can change so why not.  Don;t like it, don't read it. 

[t3HPrO]

Throw_this_away wrote...

1. I agree: make it plausable, and based/influenced by known facts or make a new character.
2. I disagree: Why not be creative and be different.  Build on a character.  They can change so why not.  Don;t like it, don't read it. 

Agreed, and I love your sigs. ME WANT YER SIGS NAO!!!

[Arijharn]

Throw_this_away wrote...
1. I agree: make it plausable, and based/influenced by known facts or make a new character.
2. I disagree: Why not be creative and be different.  Build on a character.  They can change so why not.  Don;t like it, don't read it. 

Isn't 1 and 2 sort of a contradiction?

I'm not saying that Miranda shouldn't necessarily be suddenly unable to use her biotics for reason X (because that could add to her character). I'm saying that because Miranda hasn't necessarily shown prior romantic interest in an alien species up to now (that I'm aware of) then I would find it highly unlikely that she would later.

Suddenly being unable to tap into her biotic abilities for some mysterious reason would be basically a cosmetic change (mainly because I fail to see how it could be permanent) but an intimate relationship with an alien (or even as a lesbian character) just doesn't seem to be Miranda because we've never been given a hint that this is how she may behave.

Maybe I'm not making any sense.

[t3HPrO]

Arijharn wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...
1. I agree: make it plausable, and based/influenced by known facts or make a new character.
2. I disagree: Why not be creative and be different.  Build on a character.  They can change so why not.  Don;t like it, don't read it. 

Isn't 1 and 2 sort of a contradiction?

I'm not saying that Miranda shouldn't necessarily be suddenly unable to use her biotics for reason X (because that could add to her character). I'm saying that because Miranda hasn't necessarily shown prior romantic interest in an alien species up to now (that I'm aware of) then I would find it highly unlikely that she would later.

Suddenly being unable to tap into her biotic abilities for some mysterious reason would be basically a cosmetic change (mainly because I fail to see how it could be permanent) but an intimate relationship with an alien (or even as a lesbian character) just doesn't seem to be Miranda because we've never been given a hint that this is how she may behave.

Maybe I'm not making any sense.

*Swings fob watch in front of Arijharn*
You are not making sense...you are not making sense...you are not making sense...

[Arijharn]

I mean if you're writing a fanfiction that is 'based/influenced by known facts' for an established character, then you can't by its very nature be fully 'creative and different' because you are still constrained by that characters pre-existing identity.



For example, by making Miranda suddenly a lesbian you are doing as much a disservice to the Miranda that people know now than if you suddenly made Miranda a man. You can make Miranda a lesbian probably very well and probably very intelligently, but you are still making an idealized Miranda, but not BioWare's Miranda (i.e., the one that people have experience with). This is what I mean when I said: "You may as well just make a new character and call her Shelly."

[fongiel24]

Arijharn wrote...

I mean if you're writing a fanfiction that is 'based/influenced by known facts' for an established character, then you can't by its very nature be fully 'creative and different' because you are still constrained by that characters pre-existing identity.

For example, by making Miranda suddenly a lesbian you are doing as much a disservice to the Miranda that people know now than if you suddenly made Miranda a man. You can make Miranda a lesbian probably very well and probably very intelligently, but you are still making an idealized Miranda, but not BioWare's Miranda (i.e., the one that people have experience with). This is what I mean when I said: "You may as well just make a new character and call her Shelly."

Making Miranda a lesbian who only forms romances exclusively with other females violates canon because we have evidence in ME2 that she romances men.

Making Miranda bisexual isn't a disservice nor is it violating canon because there's no evidence that Miranda isn't bisexual.

Regarding attraction to aliens, I don't see a huge problem with this either. While we haven't seen any ingame evidence that Miranda has engaged in interspecies romance before, we also don't have any ingame evidence that she hasn't. It's not OOC either because again, Miranda has never said anything about refusing to engage in interspecies romance. Pairing Miranda with Liara is no more OOC than having her take over Cerberus - nothing Bioware has published/produced has ever mentioned anything that would preclude her from doing either.

Modifié par fongiel24, 16 septembre 2010 - 04:54 .

[Nightwriter]

Some would prefer the fanfic focus on what you know about a character - namely, that the character is attracted to the opposite sex - than what you do not know about a character, which can feel fake or invalid or contradictory simply because it is a total non-presence in the canon and thus does not feel quite right.

[Arijharn]

Nightwriter wrote...

Some would prefer the fanfic focus on what you know about a character - namely, that the character is attracted to the opposite sex - than what you do not know about a character, which can feel fake or invalid or contradictory simply because it is a total non-presence in the canon and thus does not feel quite right.

How can you be so eloquent and say in one paragraph what it took me like six?

[t3HPrO]

Fear not my brethren, for I come in peace and bearing MOAR fic.
www.fanfiction.net/s/5986661/15/Reunited

I know, slightly OOC, but I'm tired of Miranda being portrayed as a stone goddess even though she's hooked up with Shep. Who's to say she ain't a freak in bed?

[t3HPrO]

Nightwriter wrote...

Some would prefer the fanfic focus on what you know about a character - namely, that the character is attracted to the opposite sex - than what you do not know about a character, which can feel fake or invalid or contradictory simply because it is a total non-presence in the canon and thus does not feel quite right.

Some people are resistant to change, and some want an OOC character that explores the side of the character that wasn't revealed in canon. It's hard to please everyone, so just go with whatever makes you happy to write. That's what I did.

[Jebel Krong]

t3HPrO wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

 Found on deviant art :




http://velvetrue.dev...awson-179371121

+++Repped so hard it ain't funny anymore. And how do you put pics on your posts and sig? Haven't figured it out yet.

nice pic and thanks for the artist link too.

for pics in sig use the direct link to the image you've uploaded, but put [ img ] [ / img ] tags round it (without spaces). and don't use anything more than 50 px tall because it'll get shrunk.

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...
A fanfiction that centres on Miranda would have, as I'd expect, established traits of Miranda's identity and character. To be honest, the concept of Miranda falling for someone like Thane or Liara, or Garrus of hell an Elcor diplomat (Xeltan?) for example is just so bizarre to what I've come to expect from interacting with Miranda during the game then you may as well just call her Shelly instead.

Personally, I agree with you. I'd not write such a fanfic. But things like a Miranda/Liara romance don't contradict what we know, they're an extension of the universe, not an alternate universe. When I read such fanfics, I do treat them as alternate universes, because I find inter-species romances silly and prefer to take my fictional worlds somewhat seriously, but otherwise, if they're well written, it's OK with me. I'm easy with switching between my interpretation of the ME universe and others'.  

I may be guilty of projecting here though because while I would totally have my Shephard take bullets for my bromance that is Garrus, a loving relationship with intimacy with an alien species is, well, an alien concept to me if you'd pardon the pun.

Very much this. Basically, as long as things stay platonic anything goes, but anything involving sex should be a no-go between species, except as a bizarre minority taste. But Bioware chose to ignore this when designing the ME universe, and if fan appreciation is any indication, they were right. I don't understand it, but I must live with it. Minimizing the impact of this design decisions in my games (never do any quest with interspecies relationships, avoid the topic in conversations, only romance humans with Shepard) and to ignore it in my fanfic.

For much the same reason, the idea of Miranda being absolutely full of 'puppy dog love' in regards to Shephard to the point of outwardly displaying it at all times is something I also have trouble relating to her character. She strikes me personally as someone who keeps her cards close to her chest. Willing and able to show intimacy and her degree of care to Shephard periodically but may actually hesitate with just coming out and say: "I love you" to him.

Here, I don't think you'll find much disagreement in this thread. There's a lot of fanfic out there guilty of what you describe, but none of the regulars here have written such.

I sometimes get the feeling that I'm not reading a story necessarily about Miranda, but about someone's idealized version of her, which quite frankly isn't as interesting to me personally.

Would you mind giving a few examples of where things start to go wrong for you? We all interpret Miranda's character somewhat. I feel lucky because Miranda and my idealized version of her are rather close. The only major change I'd make is her opinion about keeping the base (IMO it's OOC in the first place). Everything else is interpretation rather than change. For instance, some play her emotional insecurity up, I tend to play it down a bit. Neither is wrong, as long as I don't pretend it doesn't exist at all and the other doesn't make it adversely affect her competence.

[Ieldra]

t3HPrO wrote...
+++Repped so hard it ain't funny anymore. And how do you put pics on your posts and sig? Haven't figured it out yet.

To put pictures into your post, use IMG tags like this (remove the spaces):

[ img ] (image source url) [ /img ]

To put them into your sig, the same. Only that image height in sigs is limited to 52 pixels (two stacked images) or less if you have one picture. Bigger ones will be resized by the forum software. That's why the bigger sigs like mine consist of split pictures.

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Chapter 3 of "Promethean Legacy" is up. Wherein, among other things:

*Miranda displays some ruthlessness
*She sees her sister, as the result of which she attempts some high-tech smuggling
*She says farewell to Niket
*CAE's computers exhibit some strange behaviour, as the result of which Miranda jumps from a 2km-high tower...

In Chapter 4, tentatively titled "Crossing the Styx", Miranda will make a deal with a Cerberus agent and leave Earth. Interference by other interested parties seems likely.

(At the time I'm posting this, it's possible there are two mistakes left in Chapter 3 since the corrected version has been published, but doesn't show yet - §$%-delay)

Edit:
A lot of fanfic coming up these days. Nice. Yes, jtav, I'd like to read a Miranda/Liara excerpt. And please tell if your Miranda/Shepard story is published.

really enjoyed it - perhaps a bit too much emphasis on niket or niket's importance, and i don't know that anyone could go undetected in subversion of computer systems for so long (because when breeding someone genetically/intellectually superior - as her father wanted - that's exactly the sort of thing you'd be looking for), but i really liked the way you handled getting oriana out and then miranda's escape herself.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 16 septembre 2010 - 08:47 .