15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

t3HPrO wrote...
Miranda WANTS kids, that much we know.

Actually, we do not know that. She hasn't told us or anyone else that she wants children. There is some evidence she might, but it's not conclusive. Because of that, a Miranda who doesn't want children is not uncanonical.

[Nightwriter]

Arijharn wrote...

How can you be so eloquent and say in one paragraph what it took me like six?

Lol, it has nothing to do with eloquence on my part or lack of eloquence on yours. Newcomers to a debate simply have the advantage of seeing it from a condensed perspective.

[Nightwriter]

Anyway guys, I want to talk about Miranda.

Have you seen the surveillance vid of her and Jacob talking during the Lazarus Project? I'd kill to know what they're saying. I want to know the words that go with that body language.

And look at her extranet history. It's most curious.

"Extranet Message: Image results for 'Shepard Saren Spectre'." That's a very odd combination. Why would she search that? Images for Shepard and Saren?

"Extranet Message: News summary for 'Eldfell-Ashland Energy'." I know it's a long shot, but I wonder if this is her father's company.

[Ieldra]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Chapter 3 of "Promethean Legacy" is up. Wherein, among other things:

*Miranda displays some ruthlessness
*She sees her sister, as the result of which she attempts some high-tech smuggling
*She says farewell to Niket
*CAE's computers exhibit some strange behaviour, as the result of which Miranda jumps from a 2km-high tower...

In Chapter 4, tentatively titled "Crossing the Styx", Miranda will make a deal with a Cerberus agent and leave Earth. Interference by other interested parties seems likely.

(At the time I'm posting this, it's possible there are two mistakes left in Chapter 3 since the corrected version has been published, but doesn't show yet - §$%-delay)

Edit:
A lot of fanfic coming up these days. Nice. Yes, jtav, I'd like to read a Miranda/Liara excerpt. And please tell if your Miranda/Shepard story is published.

really enjoyed it - perhaps a bit too much emphasis on niket or niket's importance,

He was her oldest, and perhaps only real friend. I thought that deserved some more depth. As for his importance, well, what 16-year-old Miranda thinks of it may not be exactly how it would appear to an unbiased observer. I admit that I didn't want to go as far as to cast him as something of a lover at first, but a story which focuses so much on one character can use every bit of emotion-driven interaction it's plausible to add, and except for the point jtav made in her review (which I mostly agree with in hindsight) I think it's turned out OK.

and i don't know that anyone could go undetected in subversion of computer systems for so long (because when breeding someone genetically/intellectually superior - as her father wanted - that's exactly the sort of thing you'd be looking for)

I've been using a canonical fact as a hook: the fact she still had spy programs in her father's systems after 19 years of absence. The fact that Miranda did escape with her sister also indicates that everyone may have underestimated her. Even so, it did take three elements to make things plausible: Miranda needs less sleep but nobody knows how little, so she can learn and do more than her schedule allows for without anyone knowing about it, she has improved mental acuity in the first place, and as the designated heiress she needed high-level systems access.

Anyway, thanks for reading and for your feedback

[Ieldra]

Nightwriter wrote...
"Extranet Message: News summary for 'Eldfell-Ashland Energy'." I know it's a long shot, but I wonder if this is her father's company.

LOL. It seems it's impossible for her father to stay in the background unconnected to any other facts. As soon as the hypothesis he's the Shadow Broker has been laid to its well-deserved rest by otSB, another one pops up. At least this time, its not based on nothing at all. It's possible, though I won't like it if it turned out to be true. It would make my fanfic uncanonical.

BTW, you know what really bugs me? That Miranda never uses a cover identity. You'd think with her being on the run from her father AND being an operative of a super-secret organization classified as terrorist be the Council would make her be somewhat more careful. I've barely begun my exploration of Miranda in my fanfics and it's already been necessary to give her three different identities.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 16 septembre 2010 - 09:32 .

[Arijharn]

First of all @Ieldra2, how can you be against alien species romance such as with Garrus but not extend that general rule with the Asari? Or is it because all species find the Asari attractive?

Ieldra2 wrote...
Would you mind giving a few examples of where things start to go wrong for you? We all interpret Miranda's character somewhat. I feel lucky because Miranda and my idealized version of her are rather close. The only major change I'd make is her opinion about keeping the base (IMO it's OOC in the first place). Everything else is interpretation rather than change. For instance, some play her emotional insecurity up, I tend to play it down a bit. Neither is wrong, as long as I don't pretend it doesn't exist at all and the other doesn't make it adversely affect her competence.

Hmm, this is actually a pretty difficult question to answer; but here's some bullet points of what I think would be rather OOC (heh, my interpretation!). Obviously I'll ignore things that I've already covered.
• Giving advanced weapon designs to another species -- to further balance the conflict at such time the Reapers arrive (personally I think doing so would make a lot of sense, but I'm not totally sure if Miranda herself would do this -- example; say Cerberus boffins increased the capability of the Thanix weapon systems. Cerberus would make that technology available to the Alliance but would use legal basis (for example; making licensing or export controls so difficult to circumvent) to preserve human dominance in this regard prior to the Reaper arrival on the assumption that after the dust clears, the Alliance would have an unassailable military position).
• Giving up her sister (to her father) despite any benefit for doing so (if you remember my Mr. X post in either one of the earlier  versions of this thread)
• Selling out Cerberus (I agree, the collector base just seemed left field)
• Selling out Shephard
Hmm, those are the things I thought up in the space of probably 2 minutes, maybe there'd be more, maybe not if I thought about it at any length. At a lesser degree, I would imagine any situation where she'd let her emotions override her intelligence would be OOC except for where Oriana is concerned (and maybe Shephard)  because as far as I can see, Oriana sort of represents her humanity.

[Nightwriter]

I think her trying to get pregnant is a little OOC, but I'm told this is wrong.

Especially considering we don't know she was trying - just looking to see if she could.

Ieldra2 wrote...

BTW, you know what really bugs me? That Miranda never uses a cover identity. You'd think with her being on the run from her father AND being an operative of a super-secret organization classified as terrorist be the Council would make her be somewhat more careful. I've barely begun my exploration of Miranda in my fanfics and it's already been necessary to give her three different identities.

How do you know the name Lawson isn't already a cover identity?

That name will appear in public advertisements on the Citadel, for Pete's sake. It can't be her real name.

[Arijharn]

Nightwriter wrote...
"Extranet Message: News summary for 'Eldfell-Ashland Energy'." I know it's a long shot, but I wonder if this is her father's company.

You know, I've put this theory out there before only to be told that this idea is old news.

Personally, I think it's kinda interesting. We know of course that Miranda's 'father' is incredibly wealthy and Eldfell-Ashland is a human company that does seem to get mentioned quite a bit. I personally think it's importance (or more accurately our attention is drawn to it ) is being foreshadowed slightly to further increase it's importance in ME3 (or its just one great big red herring.

1) It's the first human corporation that successfully demonstrates Helium-3 extraction from the gravity well of Saturn
2) It's refinery is Zaeed's loyalty mission
3) In a strange way; it figures a lot in the Cerberus Network daily news, although only through comic Paris Hilton send ups in Aish Ashland.
4) I can't really think of a reason why Miranda would otherwise check up on it in her extranet terminal searches.

[Arijharn]

Nightwriter wrote...

That name will appear in public advertisements on the Citadel, for Pete's sake. It can't be her real name.

Or perhaps Cerberus is quite good at removing sensitive data from computer networks? Or perhaps Miranda Lawson isn't actually known as a Cerberus agent?

[Nightwriter]

It's also the the company of the freighter that exploded over Yandoa, which created an eezo incident that created many biotic children that Cerberus exploited. 

Damn, now that I remember Cerberus orchestrated that whole thing, it could just be she's checking up on the company for Cerberus reasons.

That's not the only snag. The founder of Eldfell-Ashland, Jonah Ashland, already has a daughter (well, granddaughter) who's a celebrity and a red sand addict.

[Nightwriter]

Arijharn wrote...

Or perhaps Cerberus is quite good at removing sensitive data from computer networks? Or perhaps Miranda Lawson isn't actually known as a Cerberus agent?

It's not Miranda's Cerberus affiliations that need to be protected, it's her very identity. If her father hears the name Lawson (assuming that's her real name) he's going to be able to track her easily.

[Arijharn]

Nightwriter wrote...
Damn, now that I remember Cerberus orchestrated that whole thing, it could just be she's checking up on the company for Cerberus reasons.

Possible, but why? Miranda's attention would surely be solely on Commander Shephard.... err I mean the Lazarus Cell's activity's.

[Arijharn]

Nightwriter wrote...
It's not Miranda's Cerberus affiliations that need to be protected, it's her very identity. If her father hears the name Lawson (assuming that's her real name) he's going to be able to track her easily.

We've been told though that for all her father's importance and connections he still wouldn't move against Cerberus. I think for the large part this is true, but since Niket sells her out perhaps he was willing to make a gamble because he wasn't against Miranda strictly speaking.

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...
First of all @Ieldra2, how can you be against alien species romance such as with Garrus but not extend that general rule with the Asari? Or is it because all species find the Asari attractive?

I haven't written any Liara (or other asari) fanfic, so why do you think I don't extend it to the asari? Because I said I'd read jtav's Miranda/Liara fanfic? I read and appreciate any well-written fanfic. Repeating every time such a fanfic comes up that as a rule I don't like interspecies romance would be an insult to the writer.
On the worldbuilding level, the asari are the worst offenders. That they're attractive to all species is so implausible that trying to wrap my mind around the concept almost makes my head explode.

Hmm, this is actually a pretty difficult question to answer; but here's some bullet points of what I think would be rather OOC (heh, my interpretation!). Obviously I'll ignore things that I've already covered.
• Giving advanced weapon designs to another species -- to further balance the conflict at such time the Reapers arrive (personally I think doing so would make a lot of sense, but I'm not totally sure if Miranda herself would do this -- example; say Cerberus boffins increased the capability of the Thanix weapon systems. Cerberus would make that technology available to the Alliance but would use legal basis (for example; making licensing or export controls so difficult to circumvent) to preserve human dominance in this regard prior to the Reaper arrival on the assumption that after the dust clears, the Alliance would have an unassailable military position).

I think she would do this if she thought it necessary to defeat the Reapers. Apart from that, did you read something like that in any fanfic?

• Giving up her sister (to her father) despite any benefit for doing so (if you remember my Mr. X post in either one of the earlier  versions of this thread)

Yes. But I haven't read any fanfic where she does that.

• Selling out Cerberus (I agree, the collector base just seemed left field)

Unfortunately, it's canonical she does exactly that. Limit it to selling out Cerberus to a non-human species and I'm with you.

• Selling out Shephard

Really? I can see several scenarios where she'd do that. Some of the more plausible speculations in this thread were about the possibility of her betraying Shepard at some point. It may be uncanonical, but it's certainly within the range of Miranda's personality. The only problem I have with such a scenario is that the writers of fanfic where Miranda does that tend to hate her.

At a lesser degree, I would imagine any situation where she'd let her emotions override her intelligence would be OOC except for where Oriana is concerned (and maybe Shephard)  because as far as I can see, Oriana sort of represents her humanity.

I'm with you here, only I think this is major aspect. Letting her emotions override her intellect in any very important decision (like at the Collector base) not regarding Oriana (and maybe Shepard, but that's debatable) is something I would avoid when writing about present-day Miranda. My 16-year-old version is a bit different because she is a teenager after all.

[Arijharn]

@Ieldra2; I didn't think you asked for specific examples in fanfiction where I thought things went 'wrong,' just examples where I personally think it would hence my responses. To be frank though, I haven't read specific examples though because if I think it is an OOC example of Miranda as I know her, then I don't read it.

[Nightwriter]

Arijharn wrote...

Nightwriter wrote...
Damn, now that I remember Cerberus orchestrated that whole thing, it could just be she's checking up on the company for Cerberus reasons.

Possible, but why? Miranda's attention would surely be solely on Commander Shephard.... err I mean the Lazarus Cell's activity's.

Lol. Sentences like these are Mirimancer catnip.

I agree, I bet TIM would want her completely focused on Shepard and the mission. But Eldfell-Ashland worked with Cerberus; we know this. Miranda says her father no longer endorses Cerberus. So logically, his company wouldn't either.

It's possible Miranda ran away after the Yandoa incident, though...

[Ieldra]

Nightwriter wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

BTW, you know what really bugs me? That Miranda never uses a cover identity. You'd think with her being on the run from her father AND being an operative of a super-secret organization classified as terrorist be the Council would make her be somewhat more careful. I've barely begun my exploration of Miranda in my fanfics and it's already been necessary to give her three different identities.

How do you know the name Lawson isn't already a cover identity?

That name will appear in public advertisements on the Citadel, for Pete's sake. It can't be her real name.

Of course it isn't her real name. But it's a cover deep enough that even Cerberus people use it - possibly only TIM knows her real name - and at the same time everyone else also knows her under that name, so the name connects her to Cerberus and has lost its function as a cover for Cerberus activities. Second, if it's a deep cover, you don't compromise it by using it for activities of lesser importance. Third, Oriana shares the surname. If you want to hide your sister, this is so stupid it doesn't bear thinking about. Fourth, if I were to use an extranet chatroom and hide my ID, I wouldn't use a username that could be connected to *any* of my identities.

(Yeah, it might just be I'm too fond of spy stories. But that doesn't make my points less valid)

[Arijharn]

That's true, I'm not sure what age she ran away but probably at least between 17-19 years ago, depending on what age Oriana was stolen as a baby.



We also don't know if she's right that her father withdrew support from Cerberus because they harboured Miranda because while they could be assured that Miranda would benefit Cerberus, if Eldfell-Ashland (or just her father) was a supplier of the moolah at some level, it'd be pretty generous.



I think Miranda is guilty of hubris in all honesty. As much as I love her character, there are cases where she overestimates herself and I think in a story perspective it would be delicious if her own father proves that maybe, just maybe, there is someone else who is as smart as her, or maybe she doesn't know things as much as she wants too, because just how knowledgeable could Miranda possibly be about Cerberus' bank accounts?



I would imagine Cerberus' fiscal capabilities would be the most classified information Cerberus could possibly have. If Miranda is in the dark about TIM's personal history, I think she'd be swimming in a black hole in regards to how much money the organization would have.

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...
3) In a strange way; it figures a lot in the Cerberus Network daily news, although only through comic Paris Hilton send ups in Aish Ashland.

You know what makes this implausible: the idea that Aish Ashland may be related to Miranda.
I think it's a red herring.

[Arijharn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...
3) In a strange way; it figures a lot in the Cerberus Network daily news, although only through comic Paris Hilton send ups in Aish Ashland.

You know what makes this implausible: the idea that Aish Ashland may be related to Miranda.
I think it's a red herring.

Lol, she may not be related to Aish Ashland, but she may be related to Eldfell.

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...
@Ieldra2; I didn't think you asked for specific examples in fanfiction where I thought things went 'wrong,' just examples where I personally think it would hence my responses. To be frank though, I haven't read specific examples though because if I think it is an OOC example of Miranda as I know her, then I don't read it.

Perhaps I think there's not much point to your criticism if what you criticize is mostly hypothetical. There's a lot of OOC fanfic out there, yes, but most of it is about sex and relationships. We've covered that angle and I think we mostly agree..

[Arijharn]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...
@Ieldra2; I didn't think you asked for specific examples in fanfiction where I thought things went 'wrong,' just examples where I personally think it would hence my responses. To be frank though, I haven't read specific examples though because if I think it is an OOC example of Miranda as I know her, then I don't read it.

Perhaps I think there's not much point to your criticism if what you criticize is mostly hypothetical. There's a lot of OOC fanfic out there, yes, but most of it is about sex and relationships. We've covered that angle and I think we mostly agree..

You're more the welcome to disagree with me, but you asked for my thoughts. Frankly whether they meet your criterion is to me irrelevant just as I'm sure the opposite is true. 

My major beef was with the sex and relationships that were with aliens though, because I've been given no hint that could be the case in the game. It could add to her character of course, but to me that isn't Miranda.

[Nightwriter]

I find her being attracted to aliens easier to swallow than her being gay or bisexual.

[Ieldra]

Nightwriter wrote...
It's possible Miranda ran away after the Yandoa incident, though...

Not possible. Oriana was born in 2166 (she is 19 in 2185), possible even one year earlier. Miranda took her when she was a baby. I take that not to mean a four-year-old child. Conclusion: Eldfell-Ashland continued to work with Cerberus after Miranda ran away

Which means: IF Eldfell-Ashland continued to work with Cerberus after Miranda ran away AND Miranda's father cut connections with Cerberus after she ran away THEN Miranda's father cannot be head of Eldfell-Ashland.

Of course, all this is info given by in-game characters or the Codex and can be wrong.

[Arijharn]

I'm reading your story Ieldra, I like it. Reminds me that if I ever become a super successful corporate magnate of a defence conglomerate and I feel the need to genetically engineer a super daughter, then I would make sure that even as a heiress she wouldn't have executive level clearances...