15168 réponses à ce sujet

[jtav]

I meant the banter from the car chase. One of my favorite parts of the mission.



Having stories suddenly rendered AU is the risk you take, though I admit to abandoning Atonement because of LotSB.I'm not sure how best to deal with her father in ME3, other than I don't want it to be romance dependent.

[jtav]

Just finished LotSB with my FemShep. Liara's romabce path is fantastic. I want something of similar quality for Miranda in ME3. The way you can confide in her andd share both of your fears for the future. The way you have to break down her barriers made me feel like I'd earned my happy ending and was what I wanted from Miranda's romance.



And now I feel like I should resign my officer's position or something.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I'm not sure how best to deal with her father in ME3, other than I don't want it to be romance dependent.

Hmm. I think it should depend on a special relationship you have with her. Unfortunately, the romance are the only special relationship we have so far. Perhaps, if we get a DLC or ME3 mission about Miranda similar to LotSB, it could depend on finishing that. Usually I don't like character development being dependent on DLC, but LotSB has shown it can work really well. I'd be willing to pay for it.

Just finished LotSB with my FemShep. Liara's romabce path is fantastic.

I also have a femShep with a Liara romance. I'm looking forward to it, but first I need to replay my second maleShep.

I want something of similar quality for Miranda in ME3. The way you can confide in her andd share both of your fears for the future. The way you have to break down her barriers made me feel like I'd earned my happy ending and was what I wanted from Miranda's romance.

QFT. Bioware, you read this?

And now I feel like I should resign my officer's position or something.

???

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 septembre 2010 - 06:13 .

[jtav]

Sorry. I mean I feel Liara blows Miranda's romances out of the water and it feels disloyal to say that. At least before I could trustfully say she was my favorite MaleShep option. It's all right to have two characters tied for the position of favorite, right?



I'd buy Miranda DLC. Do you even need to ask? I doubt they'd commit the resources, but she and Tali/Legion have the best chance.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Sorry. I mean I feel Liara blows Miranda's romances out of the water and it feels disloyal to say that. At least before I could trustfully say she was my favorite MaleShep option. It's all right to have two characters tied for the position of favorite, right?

Why not? If I weren't dead set against xenophilia, I'd count her among my favorites as well, and I'm very glad we have a believable friendship angle in LotSB. She'd still be second after Miranda, but Miranda's special - I wish I could play as her, she'd be the character I've always wanted to play in an SF game.  

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 septembre 2010 - 07:29 .

[ISpeakTheTruth]

I have a feeling that if you romanced her in ME2 than in the next game her possible infertility might be a very big part of the emotions of the relationship. I saw ME2 as showing that there was a person under the buisness like exterior and ME3 will leave alot fo the buisness personality behind and focus on the woman.

[jtav]

ISpeakTheTruth wrote...

I have a feeling that if you romanced her in ME2 than in the next game her possible infertility might be a very big part of the emotions of the relationship. I saw ME2 as showing that there was a person under the buisness like exterior and ME3 will leave alot fo the buisness personality behind and focus on the woman.

Depends. If you mean that she'll be warm to Shep in private then I agree. If you mean that she'll lose her introversion, professionalism, or pragmatic streak, then I sincerely hope not. She will never be the type to wear her heart on her sleeve. I don't want her to become the type to let the galaxy burn for Shepard's sake or cry at the drop of a hat.

[Ieldra]

I have compiled the information about Miranda's infertility for incorporation into the FAQ. Due to the ambivalent phrasing and the inconsistencies in the dossier, it will take up several questions. Here is what I have so far:

Part IV: Miranda's infertility

Is Miranda really infertile? Where do we get that information?
The information comes from a dossier in the DLC "Lair of the Shadow Broker". The dossier contains, among other things, a copy of a mail message Miranda gets from a doctor, informing her that a "benign neoplasm […] renders [her] progressively unable to conceive a child". Due to the inconsistent content and phrasing, that message is widely open to interpretation. There are two distinct possibilities:
(I) The whole dossier, with the exception of the chat between her and Oriana, is phrased so over-the-top silly, inconsistent within itself and with the level of technology we see throughout the game that it can only be interpreted as satirical. Ignore it.
(II) In spite of the inconsistencies, the dossier has to be taken seriously. It we take it seriously, then the inconsistencies have to be resolved. See the other questions in this section for that. If taken seriously, Miranda's situation seems best described by the following statements:
(II-1) At the end of Mass Effect 2, Miranda is unable to have children naturally, i.e. to conceive a child by having sex, to become pregnant and to give birth.
(II-2) 22nd century reproductive medicine can create a child that is biologically of her and whoever she wants to be the father (i.e. Shepard). That child would be indistinguishable from one conceived naturally. Depending on the kind of infertility, the process is more or less complicated.
(II-3) The difference between (1) and (2) matters to Miranda emotionally, because it is another part of normal human life denied her.

If Miranda is infertile, is that infertility curable?
I take "curable" to mean reverse her condition so that she will be able to conceive and carry a child to term naturally. See the next question for circumventing the problem.
Opinions on this also vary widely. The description of her medical condition ("benign neoplasm") suggests it is easily curable, the doctor's recommendation for adoption as a "solution" suggests it is not. The phrasing "progressive damage renders you unable to conceive a child" is also open to the interpretation "She isn't yet completely infertile, and a medical intervention can still prevent it from becoming irreversible". It also tells us she is "unable to conceive", which may mean she can still carry a child to term.

If Miranda's infertility is not curable, aren't there still ways she can have a child?
Yes. The doctor's recommendation of adoption as the "solution" presented in preference of any other is not believable. There are the following non-exclusive options:
(1) If Miranda's egg cells are damaged, new eggs would have to be created by artificial gametogenesis. Artificial gametogenesis is the process of being researched by present-day biologists (though not yet for humans), so it's plausible to assume 22nd century medicine can do it. This would also be consistent with the general level of biotechology present in the ME universe.
(2) If Miranda cannot conceive, i.e. the sperm cannot reach the egg, fertilization can be done in-vitro. In-vitro fertilization is a routine procedure in present-day reproductive medicine.
(3) If Miranda cannot become pregnant, i.e. not carry out a child, either a surrogate mother or an artificial womb is required to circumvent the problem. Given Okeer's research, it seems plausible that artificial wombs exist in the ME universe, though they may be cutting-edge technology. Surrogate mothers are always possible, but pose the question of whether the true mother of the child isn't the one who carries it to term.
(4) If Miranda's condition is genetic, genetic engineering should be able to repair the condition in her eggs, so that her children will become fully functional humans. (1) to (3) still applies.

I think this about the complete information. Anything to add, anything wrong?

@jtav:
I fully agree with your reply to ISpeakTheTruth.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 septembre 2010 - 08:50 .

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Why not? If I weren't dead set against xenophilia, I'd count her among my favorites as well, and I'm very glad we have a believable friendship angle in LotSB. She'd still be second after Miranda, but Miranda's special - I wish I could play as her, she'd be the character I've always wanted to play in an SF game.  

I'd want any DLC or game featuring Miranda as the playable character to be more espionage-based than pure combat like ME2 was, something with more dialogue and puzzles and less fighting. I know she's capable of taking care of herself, but it always looked a bit odd to me seeing Miranda in combat. It just doesn't seem her style. I always envisioned her role in Cerberus as her being the agent TIM sent when he wanted an operation completed without drawing attention. When he wants things blown up and people killed, he has agents like Kai Leng for that.

[Melra]

fongiel24 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Why not? If I weren't dead set against xenophilia, I'd count her among my favorites as well, and I'm very glad we have a believable friendship angle in LotSB. She'd still be second after Miranda, but Miranda's special - I wish I could play as her, she'd be the character I've always wanted to play in an SF game.  

I'd want any DLC or game featuring Miranda as the playable character to be more espionage-based than pure combat like ME2 was, something with more dialogue and puzzles and less fighting. I know she's capable of taking care of herself, but it always looked a bit odd to me seeing Miranda in combat. It just doesn't seem her style. I always envisioned her role in Cerberus as her being the agent TIM sent when he wanted an operation completed without drawing attention. When he wants things blown up and people killed, he has agents like Kai Leng for that.

Same here, though biotic mayhem would work as well. It never seemed right to have her in a firefight. Seeing her walk calmly into a room and throw people around like ragdolls, would fit better in my opinion. 

[fongiel24]

The FAQ looks pretty complete. I'm in a grammar nitpicking mood right now though and I noticed a few mistakes.

"I take "curable" to mean reverse her condition so that she will be able to conceive and carry out a child naturally."

"It also tells us she is "unable to conceive", which may mean she can still carry a child out."

"Surrogate mothers are always possible, but pose the question of whether the true mother of the child isn't the one who carries it out."

The term is "carry a child (or pregnancy) to term", not "carry out a child" or "carry a child out".

Opinions on this also vary widely. The description of her medical condition ("benign neoplasm") suggests it is easily curable, the doctor's recommendation for adoption as a "solution" suggests it is not or not easily curable.

You don't need the "or not easily curable" at the end of the sentence. Your "it is not" is already referring to the "easily curable" earlier in the sentence.

In addition, I might also add a brief explanation as to what a "benign neoplasm" is so people can draw their own conclusions as to how serious Miranda's medical problem is. Other than that and my nitpicks, it looks fine .

Modifié par fongiel24, 19 septembre 2010 - 08:38 .

[jtav]

I'm not sure the phrasing of the dossier is that ambiguous."progressive damage renders you unable to conceive a child" suggests it has already done so. If she wasn't yet completely infertile, "is rendering" would convey the meaning better.



I think her father might have done it deliberately. He doesn't want the next generation created the usual way. He intends for all future Lawsons to be grown in a manner similar to Miranda.

[Ieldra]

@fongiel:

I like your grammar and language nitpicking - no kidding. Corrections and Wikipedia link for "benign neoplasm" are incorporated into the text. I'll be off now, so it will make it into the FAQ tomorrow.



I also agree with you and Melrache in that a Miranda DLC should be more espionage-based.

[t3HPrO]

Honestly I don't understand the obsession with keeping things canonical. If bioware screws up your story so be it. Besides, if you AU it a little, you'll have more room to work with, and thus more chance to display your writing skills. And yes, I WANT AND NEED a Miri mission/DLC.



@jtav

honestly speaking I'd prefer it if Miranda changed quite a lot emotionally after becoming Sheps girl. A Miranda who isn't afraid to show emotions would be nice.

[Melra]

t3HPrO wrote...

Honestly I don't understand the obsession with keeping things canonical. If bioware screws up your story so be it. Besides, if you AU it a little, you'll have more room to work with, and thus more chance to display your writing skills. And yes, I WANT AND NEED a Miri mission/DLC.

@jtav
honestly speaking I'd prefer it if Miranda changed quite a lot emotionally after becoming Sheps girl. A Miranda who isn't afraid to show emotions would be nice.

But that isn't the woman that many got interested in, if they wanted a weeping girl, they would've picked Tali. I don't have problems with people showing emotions, but I prefer it if it remains between Shep and Miri, at least while on duty. Off duty, while walking around the Citadel, I think it would alright to some affection. 

I don't think there's too high chance for BioWare to screw up the character in a way, that I would be unable to like her.:innocent:

[t3HPrO]

@Ieldra2

My bad, forgot that Miri paid the guard to teach her hand-hand combat.

Also, the fact that Miranda has a benign neoplasm means that there should NOT be any 'progressive damage'. If it's benign, it shouldn't grow. If it does, it's malignant. So bioware epic failed once more in that aspect. I'm still sticking with my guns that Miri's infertility is easily curable, but it may have something to do with her genes, and that is where the problem lies. This'll be covered in the next chapter of my fic.

[Ieldra]

t3HPrO wrote...
Honestly I don't understand the obsession with keeping things canonical. If bioware screws up your story so be it. Besides, if you AU it a little, you'll have more room to work with, and thus more chance to display your writing skills.

It's no obsession. I want the universe in which I write and the one in which I play to be the same. It's OK for others' fanfics to be AU, but the ME universe powers my imagination, and integrating stuff is something I do automatically. That's the reason, BTW, why major inconsistencies and contradictions drive me up the wall.
(If I want more freedom, I create new characters or use characters less defined than Shepard and his team members)

honestly speaking I'd prefer it if Miranda changed quite a lot emotionally after becoming Sheps girl. A Miranda who isn't afraid to show emotions would be nice.

"Isn't afraid to show emotions" and "being more emotional all in all" are very different things. I'd like the former, but could only stand a small dose of the latter. In particular, I'd hate it if she made more (non-private) decisions and suggestions based on emotions (like at the Collector base,grrr).

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 septembre 2010 - 09:09 .

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

I'm not sure the phrasing of the dossier is that ambiguous."progressive damage renders you unable to conceive a child" suggests it has already done so. If she wasn't yet completely infertile, "is rendering" would convey the meaning better.

I think her father might have done it deliberately. He doesn't want the next generation created the usual way. He intends for all future Lawsons to be grown in a manner similar to Miranda.

My science might be a bit shaky here, but as I see it the problem with the "Miranda's father did it deliberately theory" is that this is a neoplasm we're talking about, ie. an uncontrolled or uncoordinated abnormal growth of cells. While Miranda's father could trigger the growth of a neoplasm, predicting exactly what will happen after that is impossible because mutation is by definition unpredictable. If he wanted to create sterile heirs, there's got to be much easier and safer ways of doing it.

[t3HPrO]

@Melrache

Actually when got me interested in Miri was the fact that she was clearly a wounded woman who was burying her emotions by playing an ice queen. Given that Shep saw through her act, it's only logical that she loosens up and shows emotion. Of course, while on duty, she'll be somewhat aloof once more, but when not on a mission, I see her letting her hair down, even infront of the crew.

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...

jtav wrote...

I'm not sure the phrasing of the dossier is that ambiguous."progressive damage renders you unable to conceive a child" suggests it has already done so. If she wasn't yet completely infertile, "is rendering" would convey the meaning better.

I think her father might have done it deliberately. He doesn't want the next generation created the usual way. He intends for all future Lawsons to be grown in a manner similar to Miranda.

My science might be a bit shaky here, but as I see it the problem with the "Miranda's father did it deliberately theory" is that this is a neoplasm we're talking about, ie. an uncontrolled or uncoordinated abnormal growth of cells. While Miranda's father could trigger the growth of a neoplasm, predicting exactly what will happen after that is impossible because mutation is by definition unpredictable. If he wanted to create sterile heirs, there's got to be much easier and safer ways of doing it.

To add to that, his scheme wouldn't be less crazy. It'd take only one stolen genetic template and a geneticist who knows what he's doing to reverse the problem for the next generation.

[Ieldra]

t3HPrO wrote...

@Melrache
Actually when got me interested in Miri was the fact that she was clearly a wounded woman who was burying her emotions by playing an ice queen. Given that Shep saw through her act, it's only logical that she loosens up and shows emotion. Of course, while on duty, she'll be somewhat aloof once more, but when not on a mission, I see her letting her hair down, even infront of the crew.

In my interpretation, Miranda's naturally detached and doesn't show her emotions to those she doesn't trust. The "ice queen" isn't entirely an act. I do think, however, that being in a happy relationship might cause her to be more open. The important thing is that it doesn't impair her competence and her willingness to make strategic (Renegade) decisions in favor of those driven by emotions (Paragon). I'd hate it if she became too idealistic.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 19 septembre 2010 - 09:17 .

[t3HPrO]

@Ieldra2

Some emotion on duty is kosher, while lots OFF duty is also kosher. However, I don't think Miranda would let her love for Shep influence any decision that involves thousands or the whole galaxy.



...or would she?



Anyways, I don't want and don't think Miranda would be a weepy girl like tali(yawn), but I think she'll readily say 'i love you' to Shep even in public (it would be hilarious if Shepard constantly PDAs his love for Miri, and she squeals and squirms but she actually enjoys it a lot). After all, Shepard may be her only true love, and not someone she had to seduce for a mission or her father for once. I'm using my iPhone to forum, so there's a screwup with the quote function, and now I'm doing this. Goddamn you Steve Job-less.

[jtav]

Some people aren't naturally demonstrative. It's not a matter of being afraid to show emotion. Falling in love doesn't turn you into a different person. If she doesn't remain Miranda, there's no point. As for keeping things canonical, I'm interested in reading and writing about Miranda. I might wrote an AU where she and Shep had a previous romance, but she should still be the same character except for things caused by that romance. I am writing her as a bisexual, but she's still emotionally guarded, discriminating, and focused on her job. I don't have a license to write her any way I please, even when I'm inventing details. I have to be plausible.

[Caihn]

t3HPrO wrote...

honestly speaking I'd prefer it if Miranda changed quite a lot emotionally after becoming Sheps girl. A Miranda who isn't afraid to show emotions would be nice.

I agree.
But Miranda already started to show her emotions.
She has changed. And personally I prefer the new Miranda : when she shows her emotions she's even more interesting.

[t3HPrO]

@jtav

Uh...it does actually. True, it may be a little unlike Miranda, but a Miranda unafraid to show emotions would be a crapload better than the ****y ice queen we got at Lazarus who interestingly became your polite secretary on the Normandy. And I don't get why people think that Miri is emotionless or doesn't show any emotions. On her sister's rescue trip, all sorts of emotions (all negative) were pouring out like water through a tap. It would only be logical that Miranda would be showing more emotion in front of the people she loves, given ghat she was that emotional during her loyalty mission.



And as for the obsession with keeping things canonical, I get it now. But it is kinda creativity-snuffing and you'd have to abandon a fic everytime bioware dictates something in your fic is NC. bleargh, I'll take an AU anyday thankyouverymuch.