15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Jebel Krong]

Melrache wrote...

t3HPrO wrote...

Honestly I don't understand the obsession with keeping things canonical. If bioware screws up your story so be it. Besides, if you AU it a little, you'll have more room to work with, and thus more chance to display your writing skills. And yes, I WANT AND NEED a Miri mission/DLC.

@jtav
honestly speaking I'd prefer it if Miranda changed quite a lot emotionally after becoming Sheps girl. A Miranda who isn't afraid to show emotions would be nice.

But that isn't the woman that many got interested in, if they wanted a weeping girl, they would've picked Tali. I don't have problems with people showing emotions, but I prefer it if it remains between Shep and Miri, at least while on duty. Off duty, while walking around the Citadel, I think it would alright to some affection. 

I don't think there's too high chance for BioWare to screw up the character in a way, that I would be unable to like her.:innocent:

i agree with this - Miranda would always keep the "exterior shell"/cool detachment for dealing with most people, but be completely different with shepard off-duty or alone, if you romanced her. her fundamental personality wouldn't shift though - people don't change from being morally flexible to straight paragon/renegade btw - she'd still be the same person (and if she wasn't you'd maybe not be romancing her, right?).

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 20 septembre 2010 - 08:57 .

[Jebel Krong]

t3HPrO wrote...

@jtav
Uh...it does actually. True, it may be a little unlike Miranda, but a Miranda unafraid to show emotions would be a crapload better than the ****y ice queen we got at Lazarus who interestingly became your polite secretary on the Normandy. And I don't get why people think that Miri is emotionless or doesn't show any emotions. On her sister's rescue trip, all sorts of emotions (all negative) were pouring out like water through a tap. It would only be logical that Miranda would be showing more emotion in front of the people she loves, given ghat she was that emotional during her loyalty mission.

And as for the obsession with keeping things canonical, I get it now. But it is kinda creativity-snuffing and you'd have to abandon a fic everytime bioware dictates something in your fic is NC. bleargh, I'll take an AU anyday thankyouverymuch.

trouble is you only see her really interact with shepard - with jacob's loyalty mission you do get to see a bit of how she acts with other "familiar" people, but not much, and she's not as cold then. also when you first interact on lazarus she's not sure how you'll react, so is naturally suspicious, that changes by the time you've done the next mission together (life-or-death combat will do that for you) - and that is where the barometer for behavious should be taken, after lazarus but before any romance.

[Jebel Krong]

jtav wrote...

Yes, I always took her views to be "how can we make humanity better?" not "how can we crush aliensunder our heel?" She's a patriot, not a jingoist. I can see her having close alien friends. Even lovers, if we grant ME its ridiculous biology.

yes human advancement, not dominance (like TIM wants).

[Jebel Krong]

i, for one, really hope they keep the notion of 'kids' out of any LI conversation in any mass effect game in the future, being forced to deal with 'revelations' from one joke dossier from a DLC are, perhaps unlikely (thankfully) but would be incredibly disappointing to canonise and then expand upon.

[Arijharn]

I don't even think TIM wants human dominance to the extent of crushing all others under the iron heel of humanity.

[Ieldra]

Melrache wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Btw, did anyone else come across this paper on artificial gametogenesis, by one Andrew Lawson no less? Somehow I don't quite think that's a coincidence.

And now we know who the father is. :innocent:

At least we can now suspect that Bioware does *some* research. Though it begs the question of who perpetrated the dossier.

[t3HPrO]

snfonseka wrote...

By reading the SB dossiers I understand one thing... That those dossiers were made without thinking deeply, without considering repercussions etc. Basically BW has made a mess with those dossiers. I hope BW will find a way to cleanup their own mess.

I'll be more than happy to toss kitchen towels at them, along with a generous serving of 'you idiots, think before you do anything next time.'

[t3HPrO]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Melrache wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Btw, did anyone else come across this paper on artificial gametogenesis, by one Andrew Lawson no less? Somehow I don't quite think that's a coincidence.

And now we know who the father is. :innocent:

At least we can now suspect that Bioware does *some* research. Though it begs the question of who perpetrated the dossier.

Some but it ain't enough...given how much writers are paid. Does anyone think I should drop my architecture diploma and become a writer instead?

[t3HPrO]

I need a break from LotSB dossiers...goddamn jokes, the entire lot of it.

[t3HPrO]

t3HPrO wrote...

I need a break from LotSB dossiers...goddamn jokes, the entire lot of it.

Well, except for Jack's and Thane's. Grunt jacking off to Fornax while chowing down on Fishdog Food Shack grub? And Legion pwning like crazy in a rip off of both Medal of Honor and Call of Duty? Please.

[Arijharn]

Those dossiers are evil. I guess I consider their 'canonicity' to be on a sliding scale offset by its degree of hilarity.

[Ieldra]

t3HPrO wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Melrache wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Btw, did anyone else come across this paper on artificial gametogenesis, by one Andrew Lawson no less? Somehow I don't quite think that's a coincidence.

And now we know who the father is. :innocent:

At least we can now suspect that Bioware does *some* research. Though it begs the question of who perpetrated the dossier.

Some but it ain't enough...given how much writers are paid. Does anyone think I should drop my architecture diploma and become a writer instead?

A writer for games, perhaps. A writer of books, that's a different story... The good ones do quite a lot of research as a rule. Really, I wish Bioware would take inspiration for their worldbuilding from books rather than TV. There's a reason I almost never watch SF TV shows.

[Throw_this_away]

I thought that the dossiers were great. Miranda included. Added a lot of realism.

I really, really enjoyed reading them all. Miranda's added a lot to her character if you ask me, even if it is a side of her that fans may not like. Not being able to have kids, and "sleeping around" (even if for business, not pleasure) really tests the fanbase of Miranda. Those seeking a "wholesome" "traditional virginal romantic love" with a "dog and kids" ending with Miranda will have their loyalty put to the test. But this is a good thing. If everything was perfect with Miranda, she would become Tali. I like characters like Miranda because they are challenging, and realistic, not easy and throwing themselves at you. In real life people have been around the bend... often in "questionable circumstances". Who hasn't? Answer: the type of person that likes Tali (now depicted as a horny young virgin... which makes her popularity creepy given the age of many gamers).

In the end the Dossier for Miranda adds a lot to the character because it reinforces the changes Shep can have on her personality if you pursue a LI with her. It also highlights how sad her existence is otherwise (although improved with the loyalty mission). She goes from being cold and heartless and calculating (and approaching relationships in the same way) to being a much different person. Her conversation with her sister shows that her growth is something that will take time. For someone who is so well put together (pun intended) on the surface, she has a lot of weaknesses and vulnerabilities.

This makes her character more endearing in my eyes.

Modifié par Throw_this_away, 20 septembre 2010 - 12:48 .

[snfonseka]

Throw_this_away wrote...

I thought that the dossiers were great. Miranda included. Added a lot of realism.

I really, really enjoyed reading them all. Miranda's added a lot to her character if you ask me, even if it is a side of her that fans may not like. Not being able to have kids, and "sleeping around" (even if for business, not pleasure) really tests the fanbase of Miranda. Those seeking a "wholesome" "traditional virginal romantic love" with a "dog and kids" ending with Miranda will have their loyalty put to the test. But this is a good thing. If everything was perfect with Miranda, she would become Tali. I like characters like Miranda because they are challenging, and realistic, not easy and throwing themselves at you. In real life people have been around the bend... often in "questionable circumstances". Who hasn't? Answer: the type of person that likes Tali (now depicted as a horny young virgin... which makes her popularity creepy given the age of many gamers).

In the end the Dossier for Miranda adds a lot to the character because it reinforces the changes Shep can have on her personality if you pursue a LI with her. It also highlights how sad her existence is otherwise (although improved with the loyalty mission). She goes from being cold and heartless and calculating (and approaching relationships in the same way) to being a much different person. Her conversation with her sister shows that her growth is something that will take time. For someone who is so well put together (pun intended) on the surface, she has a lot of weaknesses and vulnerabilities.

This makes her character more endearing in my eyes.

"Sleeping around" - OK for me, anyway I don't think anyone should hope that Miri is a virgin. Plus she is older than Shepard so it is (been a virgin) totaly unrealistic. Actualy I am for one who like to see Miranda as someone who used "sex" as a tool to get the job done "when it is necessary" (Some may disagree :innocent:)....

"Having Kids" - The problem lies here, because she supporse to be "the perfect woman" (literally) and this is going against ME own codex info regarding diseases etc, according to my understanding.

Off topic: Regarding the sisters conversation, can someone please tell me whether this conversation appear even Miranda didn't meet her sister at the end of her loyality mission?

Modifié par snfonseka, 20 septembre 2010 - 01:16 .

[Jebel Krong]

i don't like any of the dossiers not because they give any one character "imperfections", but because they are jokey and OOC and cheapen what is, generally, a universe that deals with serious issues in a mature way and takes itself (mostly) very seriously.

[Throw_this_away]

Jebel Krong wrote...

i don't like any of the dossiers not because they give any one character "imperfections", but because they are jokey and OOC and cheapen what is, generally, a universe that deals with serious issues in a mature way and takes itself (mostly) very seriously.

admitadly, ME2 from the getgo was a far more humor filled game than ME1.  I enjoy the humor, but it does hurt the "darker atmosphere" that was advertised for ME2.  ME1 felt far more "empty and dark" than ME2. 

[Jebel Krong]

Throw_this_away wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

i don't like any of the dossiers not because they give any one character "imperfections", but because they are jokey and OOC and cheapen what is, generally, a universe that deals with serious issues in a mature way and takes itself (mostly) very seriously.

admitadly, ME2 from the getgo was a far more humor filled game than ME1.  I enjoy the humor, but it does hurt the "darker atmosphere" that was advertised for ME2.  ME1 felt far more "empty and dark" than ME2. 

yes but there's a difference between humour and silliness. these dossiers are definitely the latter. whilst there are some very funny moments in the game, they fit within the context of the universe and provide some brevity, where appropriate. the dossiers do not : we are supposed to believe that grunt is subscribing to fornax whilst they are all on a suicide mission? or that Legion is playing thinly-veiled contemporary multiplayer games? that stuff doesn't wash.

plus there's also the fact they don't take into account *your* choices in-game with reference to their events.

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 20 septembre 2010 - 01:53 .

[Throw_this_away]

Jebel Krong wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...

Jebel Krong wrote...

i don't like any of the dossiers not because they give any one character "imperfections", but because they are jokey and OOC and cheapen what is, generally, a universe that deals with serious issues in a mature way and takes itself (mostly) very seriously.

admitadly, ME2 from the getgo was a far more humor filled game than ME1.  I enjoy the humor, but it does hurt the "darker atmosphere" that was advertised for ME2.  ME1 felt far more "empty and dark" than ME2. 

yes but there's a difference between humour and silliness. these dossiers are definitely the latter. whilst there are some very funny moments in the game, they fit within the context of the universe and provide some brevity, where appropriate. the dossiers do not : we are supposed to believe that grunt is subscribing to fornax whilst they are all on a suicide mission? or that Legion is playing thinly-veiled contemporary multiplayer games? that stuff doesn't wash.

plus there's also the fact they don't take into account *your* choices in-game with reference to their events.

I think that the dossiers are appropriate because many of the dossiers dossier reflect the character, and thus the stereotypical demographic that their were intended to appeal to.  I also like the mix of silliness and serious (Samara and Garrus). 

I guess it all depends on what you expect to get out of them.  I am happy effort was made to keep it at least partially light.  I foud it to be more interesting that way.  

Modifié par Throw_this_away, 20 septembre 2010 - 02:08 .

[Ieldra]

Throw_this_away wrote...
I really, really enjoyed reading them all. Miranda's added a lot to her character if you ask me, even if it is a side of her that fans may not like. Not being able to have kids, and "sleeping around" (even if for business, not pleasure) really tests the fanbase of Miranda. Those seeking a "wholesome" "traditional virginal romantic love" with a "dog and kids" ending with Miranda will have their loyalty put to the test. But this is a good thing. If everything was perfect with Miranda, she would become Tali. I like characters like Miranda because they are challenging, and realistic, not easy and throwing themselves at you. In real life people have been around the bend... often in "questionable circumstances". Who hasn't? Answer: the type of person that likes Tali (now depicted as a horny young virgin... which makes her popularity creepy given the age of many gamers).

Most of us here have no problem with Miranda's sex life, as has been posted so often that I'm feeling bad for having to repeat it. As for her infertility: Miranda is not mentally perfect, we all know that and like her the more for it, but her infertility is a problem as it clashes with the phyisical perfection she's supposed to embody. I take that aspect rather rather seriously.

In the end the Dossier for Miranda adds a lot to the character because it reinforces the changes Shep can have on her personality if you pursue a LI with her.

It would, if the dossier wasn't so over-the-top and silly, and the facts presented therein not so inconsistent among themselves and with aspects of the ME universe at large. If this is the kind of "humor" we can expect in ME3, Bioware can keep it. I like the occasional funny interlude, but hate it (and I don't use that term lightly) if the humor destroys immersion.

[jtav]

I'm glad the flurry of "What do you mean Miranda's had one night stands?" posts have died down. The love scene presents her as someone who knows what she wants and how to get it, and she's a gorgeous 35-year-old woman who's been all over the galaxy. Come on. If you want pure and virginal, look elsewhere. For that matter, if your happy ending is two kids, a dog, and the LI baking cookies, look elsewhere. I will never understand why someone would say they like Miranda and then turn her into a completely different person.

[Throw_this_away]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Throw_this_away wrote...
I really, really enjoyed reading them all. Miranda's added a lot to her character if you ask me, even if it is a side of her that fans may not like. Not being able to have kids, and "sleeping around" (even if for business, not pleasure) really tests the fanbase of Miranda. Those seeking a "wholesome" "traditional virginal romantic love" with a "dog and kids" ending with Miranda will have their loyalty put to the test. But this is a good thing. If everything was perfect with Miranda, she would become Tali. I like characters like Miranda because they are challenging, and realistic, not easy and throwing themselves at you. In real life people have been around the bend... often in "questionable circumstances". Who hasn't? Answer: the type of person that likes Tali (now depicted as a horny young virgin... which makes her popularity creepy given the age of many gamers).

Most of us here have no problem with Miranda's sex life, as has been posted so often that I'm feeling bad for having to repeat it. As for her infertility: Miranda is not mentally perfect, we all know that and like her the more for it, but her infertility is a problem as it clashes with the phyisical perfection she's supposed to embody. I take that aspect rather rather seriously.

In the end the Dossier for Miranda adds a lot to the character because it reinforces the changes Shep can have on her personality if you pursue a LI with her.

It would, if the dossier wasn't so over-the-top and silly, and the facts presented therein not so inconsistent among themselves and with aspects of the ME universe at large. If this is the kind of "humor" we can expect in ME3, Bioware can keep it. I like the occasional funny interlude, but hate it (and I don't use that term lightly) if the humor destroys immersion.

I don't frequent the thread... so I am sure I am repeating someone, somewhere. 

In regards to the physical perfection, I think the infertility is an interesting ironic twist.  It is symbolic that she is not perfect, and again, it puts her in her fathers shoes if she wishes to reproduce.   

On the down side, I did feel it fed the stereotype of a "35 year old desperate for kids before it is too late."  Mind you, 35 in the future is more like 25 today.  

Modifié par Throw_this_away, 20 septembre 2010 - 02:15 .

[Throw_this_away]

Ieldra2 wrote...
 I like the occasional funny interlude, but hate it (and I don't use that term lightly) if the humor destroys immersion.

for me, the the talking Space Dinosaurs shooting lazers killed the immersion way back in ME1. 

Modifié par Throw_this_away, 20 septembre 2010 - 02:24 .

[Melra]

Throw_this_away wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
 I like the occasional funny interlude, but hate it (and I don't use that term lightly) if the humor destroys immersion.

for me, the the talking Space Dinosaurs shooting lazers killed the immersion way back in ME1. 

The immersion wasn't destroyed for me by the dossiers, some of them were alright. Miranda's was good, in my opinion. Legion's was bit weird, but I could see it happening. 

Immersion in ME2 was destroyed by the numerous loading screens and the mission report screens.

[Throw_this_away]

Throw_this_away wrote...

I think that the dossiers are appropriate because many of the dossiers dossier reflect the character, and thus the stereotypical demographic that their were intended to appeal to.  I also like the mix of silliness and serious (Samara and Garrus). 

I guess it all depends on what you expect to get out of them.  I am happy effort was made to keep it at least partially light.  I foud it to be more interesting that way.  

I just want to add that I can see why some fans of Miranda may not like her dossier (or dossiers in general) in that in some ways... they appeal to the common fan (the 80% malesheps, the majority that are Soldiers, the 50% that do not finish the game, the types that don't frequent the forums and that went for Miranda as a LI for T+A, the people that have Black ops on special order.) 

Thus we get a lot of humor (base at times).  But I liked it. 

But then in the last week I have been playing and fully enjoying COD4:MW.  Multiplayer included.  Maybe I am ME2's target demographic now.  (Ironically I started as a RPG fan, and did not play shooters... and after ME2 I am rather enjoying shooters.  At least for one playthrough).  

[Caihn]

snfonseka wrote...

"Sleeping around" - OK for me, anyway I don't think anyone should hope that Miri is a virgin. Plus she is older than Shepard so it is (been a virgin) totaly unrealistic. Actualy I am for one who like to see Miranda as someone who used "sex" as a tool to get the job done "when it is necessary" (Some may disagree :innocent:)....

I don't agree. I don't think she used sex as a tool, her attractiveness yes, not sex.

And people should read the dossiers one more time before saying bull****s.
She didn't slept with everyone, she selected only one guy among all the guys she talked with in the dossiers.