15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

Throw_this_away wrote...
In regards to the physical perfection, I think the infertility is an interesting ironic twist.  It is symbolic that she is not perfect, and again, it puts her in her fathers shoes if she wishes to reproduce.

It's ironic, yes, still I don't like it. If Bioware came out and said, here, she's infertile, deal with it, well, I would like it even less. But the absolute worst is what we've got: this silly, over-the-top, stereotypical, crude, inconsistent and insulting way to present it.

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Btw, did anyone else come across this paper on artificial gametogenesis, by one Andrew Lawson no less? Somehow I don't quite think that's a coincidence.

Where'd you find this? It seems so... random.

t3HPrO wrote...

Some but it ain't enough...given how much writers are paid.../../../images/forum/emoticons/blushing.png Does anyone think I should drop my architecture diploma and become a writer instead?

Writers make decent money, but not nearly as much as you seem to think.

http://www.gamecaree...vey_.php?page=4

Miranda's dossier could have been handled better, but overall the entire LotSB DLC pack was very polished and extremely well done - including the writing on most of the dossiers. The content of the dossiers might not have been what we'd hoped, but it's obvious whoever wrote them put a lot of time and effort into them (at least the writing aspect, if not the research aspect).

I don't even think Miranda's dossier makes that big a difference for fan fiction writers. It's vague enough in its details that we can get around the parts we don't like with some creativity. The infertility problem can be construed as either easily curable if you don't like it, and twisted into something virtually incurable if you do like it (the neoplasm itself can be fixed but the cause for it and the damage it caused may not, depending on how you write it). Regarding the iPartners transcripts, the only people it really doesn't work for is those who saw Miranda as a perfect virginal ideal of femininity. For everyone else, again it can be construed into business, pleasure, business with pleasure, or a search for a sperm donor (unfortunately this one seems to be the "default" explanation due to the health checks, despite also being the most headscratchingly odd option).

Throw_this_away wrote...

I just want to add that I can see why some fans of Miranda may not like her dossier (or dossiers in general) in that in some ways... they appeal to the common fan (the 80% malesheps, the majority that are Soldiers, the 50% that do not finish the game, the types that don't frequent the forums and that went for Miranda as a LI for T+A, the people that have Black ops on special order.) 

Thus we get a lot of humor (base at times).  But I liked it. 

But then in the last week I have been playing and fully enjoying COD4:MW.  Multiplayer included. Maybe I am ME2's target demographic now. (Ironically I started as a RPG fan, and did not play shooters... and
after ME2 I am rather enjoying shooters.  At least for one playthrough).
 

I've yet to complete a fem!Shep playthrough, almost all of my playthroughs are with soldiers (Shepard as an "ordinary" human is my canon), I was first attracted to Miranda for T&A, and I have both COD:Black Ops and MoH on special order. I also fall well into ME2's target demographic.

Modifié par fongiel24, 20 septembre 2010 - 08:10 .

[jtav]

I'm far outside the target demographic. Female, love playing engineers, don't like shooters. I am very aware that Miranda wasn't targeted towards me. I managed to love her anyway, though the differing demographic is what I blame my lack of interest in the romance on.

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Btw, did anyone else come across this paper on artificial gametogenesis, by one Andrew Lawson no less? Somehow I don't quite think that's a coincidence.

Where'd you find this? It seems so... random.

I was searching for articles on artificial gametogenesis, to get an idea of the present state of things.

Miranda's dossier could have been handled better, but overall the entire LotSB DLC pack was very polished and extremely well done - including the writing on most of the dossiers. The content of the dossiers might not have been what we'd hoped, but it's obvious whoever wrote them put a lot of time and effort into them (at least the writing aspect, if not the research aspect).

No, that's not at all obvious to me, at least not for Miranda's dossier. The only part where some effort was made was with the chat between Miranda and Oriana. As I said, I have no problems with Miranda's sex life, but the iPartners thing was over-the-top, silly and crude in style, and the medical report inconsistent in itself.   

Regarding the iPartners transcripts, the only people it really doesn't work for is those who saw Miranda as a perfect virginal ideal of femininity. For everyone else, again it can be construed into business, pleasure, business with pleasure, or a search for a sperm donor (unfortunately this one seems to be the "default" explanation due to the health checks, despite also being the most headscratchingly odd option).

I have no issues with the content, but consider the style. It's so stereotypical, and insulting to an intelligent character like Miranda. She sounds like a sociopath in these excerpts. Were she like that, she'd never been successful as a Cerberus operative. Again, if that's Bioware's idea of humor, they can keep it.

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I have no issues with the content, but consider the style. It's so stereotypical, and insulting to an intelligent character like Miranda. She sounds like a sociopath in these excerpts. Were she like that, she'd never been successful as a Cerberus operative. Again, if that's Bioware's idea of humor, they can keep it.

I don't know if it makes her a sociopath. Completely separating sex from romance, as Miranda seems to be doing, requires a different way of looking at both, but I don't think it necessarily implies sociopathic tendencies. I actually think Miranda's ability to separate physical pleasure from emotional dependency and understand the difference between them would make her a better operative. After all, spies in fiction are always fed that stereotypical line about not allowing themselves to get emotionally close to their marks. If Miranda practices this idea even in her sex life, I have no problem with it. If she's just looking for sexual release, she doesn't really need to know what your hobbies are, does she?

Modifié par fongiel24, 20 septembre 2010 - 08:55 .

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I'm far outside the target demographic. Female, love playing engineers, don't like shooters. I am very aware that Miranda wasn't targeted towards me. I managed to love her anyway, though the differing demographic is what I blame my lack of interest in the romance on.

Not quite as far away here, being male, but likely I make up for it by being an outlier in age. Also I never play soldiers and prefer the "caster" classes, I don't like shooters as a rule, and if not for Miranda, I'd be playing almost exclusively femSheps.

I wonder if Miranda did actually attract a significant part of that supposed "target demographic". If forum behaviour is any indication, most of them are drawn to Tali.

[Ieldra]

fongiel24 wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

I have no issues with the content, but consider the style. It's so stereotypical, and insulting to an intelligent character like Miranda. She sounds like a sociopath in these excerpts. Were she like that, she'd never been successful as a Cerberus operative. Again, if that's Bioware's idea of humor, they can keep it.

I don't know if it makes her a sociopath. Completely separating sex from romance, as Miranda seems to be doing, requires a different way of looking at both, but I don't think it necessarily implies sociopathic tendencies. I actually think Miranda's ability to separate physical pleasure from emotional dependency and understand the difference between them would make her a better operative. After all, spies in fiction are always fed that stereotypical line about not allowing themselves to get emotionally close to their marks. If Miranda practices this idea even in her sex life, I have no problem with it. If she's just looking for sexual release, she doesn't really need to know what your hobbies are, does she?

No, but she's like a machine in the dossier. I'd except her to know that sexual attraction is not completely independent from behaviour. Also, if sexual release is all she cares about, why bother with a partner in the first place? If it was for a child, there are better places to go that a dating service. It all doesn't fit together, it looks like it's written with a one-dimensional over-the-top stereotype in mind rather than a character.
.

[jtav]

I think she's more popular among the casual gamers who don't visit the forums, those who play the game once before moving on. Miranda doesn't seem to have attracted the passionate fan base that Tali, Garrus, or even Thane has.

[Caihn]

Miranda also has a passionate fan base, but most of them left the forum. And I understand why.

[t3HPrO]

Why'd they leave the forum?

[jtav]

The iPartners exchanges are... strange. If if it weren't for the "SR2" in her screen name, then I would pass it off as her being obsessed with conceiving a child naturally, i.e. not using a sperm bank or other methods. The timeline issues are what's making it bizarre. She'll be dead before she can even give birth. And she knows it.

[t3HPrO]

@jtav

Actually, Miranda has a very passionate and large fanbase consisting of hardcore(and professional) gamers. And no, Miranda is targeted ( and hit dead on) towards the more mature crowd (ie 15-25), while talinutters are generally 9-14 years old according to some polls here.

[Ieldra]

Yannkee wrote...
Miranda also has a passionate fan base, but most of them left the forum. And I understand why.

Why do you think? Because of character hate? Sure, I don't like it, but it has lessened significantly and wouldn't intimidate me into leaving anyway.

[Caihn]

t3HPrO wrote...

Why'd they leave the forum?

Because they don't feel comfortable here anymore. (on the forums, and even on this thread)

[t3HPrO]

@jtav

The iPartners is a farce. Ignore it. And even if it were canon, she was just looking for a good lay. Miranda, being as smart as she is, would know better than anyone that she doesn't have time to conceive a baby. And besides, the iPartners is a regular bioware timeline SNAFU because during the time she ran round the universe in the SR2, she would constantly be on duty in case the collectors hit another colony or something new collector related came up. So the hookups had to be before she resurrected shep. Besides, it wouldve taken cerberus at least 3 years to build a ship like the Normandy.

[Ieldra]

Yannkee wrote...

t3HPrO wrote...

Why'd they leave the forum?

Because they don't feel comfortable here anymore. (on the forums, and even on this thread)

What is there on this thread that makes people go away? I think we'd all like to attract more Miranda fans to this thread.

[jtav]

Miranda seems to have been targeted at males aged 15-30, give or take a few years. On the forums, I'd say that Tali was more successful at reaching the under-25s. There also seems to be significant overlap between people like Liara and people who like Miranda, though they may not be interested in actually romancing her.

[t3HPrO]

I'm currently working on the LotSB chapter of my fic, an I'll do the logical take on Miri's iPartners hookups, and also I'll explain the reason why it's not that easy to cure Miranda. But she is already cured but she doesn't know it because of some mysterious nanotechnology (muahahahaha) that is healing and improving every part of her.

[fongiel24]

The only parts of the iPartners transcripts that bug me if the health checks and the SR2 username, the health checks because they seem to suggest Miranda is searching for a donor (which as I've already explained makes very little sense to me), and the SR2 username because the idea that Miranda was chasing tail during ME2 seems a little ridiculous. Clinically searching for casual sex on the extranet doesn't seem any worse to me than going to a bar to pick up drunk girls. I think it just seems strange because in this case it's a female character doing it.

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

t3HPrO wrote...

Why'd they leave the forum?

Because they don't feel comfortable here anymore. (on the forums, and even on this thread)

What is there on this thread that makes people go away? I think we'd all like to attract more Miranda fans to this thread.

I sometimes wonder if there's some sort of closed-off community of Miranda fans out there that I've just been left out of , kind of like Tali's Migrant Fleet in Exile community.

t3HPrO wrote...

@jtav
Actually, Miranda has a very passionate and large fanbase consisting of hardcore(and professional) gamers. And no, Miranda is targeted ( and hit dead on) towards the more mature crowd (ie 15-25), while talinutters are generally 9-14 years old according to some polls here.

The box on my copy of ME2 says "Mature 17+". I'd really like to see these polls because I highly doubt there's many 9-14 year-olds playing ME2, considering there's so many better pure shooters out there for them to get their kicks in. Also I never really considered 15-25 to be the more "mature" crowd.

Modifié par fongiel24, 20 septembre 2010 - 09:33 .

[jtav]

Ieldra, I believe Yankee may be referring to our occasional rounds of discussions about the morality of keeping the base and arguments over whether the romance is any good, though I seem to be the only one here who doesn't like it.

[t3HPrO]

And no, she doesn't know about the nanotechnology inside of her.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Miranda seems to have been targeted at males aged 15-30, give or take a few years. On the forums, I'd say that Tali was more successful at reaching the under-25s. There also seems to be significant overlap between people like Liara and people who like Miranda, though they may not be interested in actually romancing her.

It certainly seems as if Liara and Miranda fans get along better than some other groups. As for the age, I guess the over 35-group isn't worth considering... *grumbles*

[t3HPrO]

@jtav

The romance is the best(tied with Jack). What's not to like?

[t3HPrO]

@Ieldra2

Relax dude...have a budweiser...and I'm 17. And like many in my age group, I didn't go for tali.

[t3HPrO]

@fongiel24

The 9-14 year olds are in it for the talisexing. Bleargh.