15168 réponses à ce sujet

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Miranda seems to have been targeted at males aged 15-30, give or take a few years. On the forums, I'd say that Tali was more successful at reaching the under-25s. There also seems to be significant overlap between people like Liara and people who like Miranda, though they may not be interested in actually romancing her.

It certainly seems as if Liara and Miranda fans get along better than some other groups. As for the age, I guess the over 35-group isn't worth considering... *grumbles*

Most of the blockbuster games seem to be aimed at the male 18-30 demographic, probably because they're still the biggest group of customers. Given how saturated the market currently is and how so many game companies are going through financial difficulties though, I can see them trying to branch out more to reach more demographics. The success of ME and DA:O suggest there's money to be made outside the traditional demographic, considering these are long 40+ hour games with relatively detailed storylines (compared to the 4-5 hour campaign for MW2 and its paper-thin plot).

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
Ieldra, I believe Yankee may be referring to our occasional rounds of discussions about the morality of keeping the base and arguments over whether the romance is any good, though I seem to be the only one here who doesn't like it.

That may be, but I don't understand it. For a significant part, we're here for debate, not just for endlessly agreeing with each other about how great Miranda is (though we likely will agree on that) and how everything about her and her romance is perfect. If this thread devolved into endless spamming of :wub:s *I* would leave - though Yankee, if you read this, I like that you occasionally post them. Perhaps we're at fault for taking that for granted too much. 

In that spirit: Miranda....

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 septembre 2010 - 10:00 .

[jtav]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Miranda seems to have been targeted at males aged 15-30, give or take a few years. On the forums, I'd say that Tali was more successful at reaching the under-25s. There also seems to be significant overlap between people like Liara and people who like Miranda, though they may not be interested in actually romancing her.

It certainly seems as if Liara and Miranda fans get along better than some other groups. As for the age, I guess the over 35-group isn't worth considering... *grumbles*

Or the girls. I'm still boggling that they apparently thought that the Jacob romance would be irresistible. I complain about Miranda's occasionally, but it's out of frustration with something I really want to enjoy. Jacob's is just bad. Not least because he appears to be still carrying a torch for Miranda.

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Miranda seems to have been targeted at males aged 15-30, give or take a few years. On the forums, I'd say that Tali was more successful at reaching the under-25s. There also seems to be significant overlap between people like Liara and people who like Miranda, though they may not be interested in actually romancing her.

It certainly seems as if Liara and Miranda fans get along better than some other groups. As for the age, I guess the over 35-group isn't worth considering... *grumbles*

Or the girls. I'm still boggling that they apparently thought that the Jacob romance would be irresistible. I complain about Miranda's occasionally, but it's out of frustration with something I really want to enjoy. Jacob's is just bad. Not least because he appears to be still carrying a torch for Miranda.

Yes. It boggles the mind. Whoever wrote Jacob's romance must be the king of the clueless, and that with him being not altogether uninteresting without the romance. Strange in comparison that they did rather well with Kaidan. At least it's my impression he's popular with the girls, though I came to like him late (not being a girl may have had something to do with that). 
 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 20 septembre 2010 - 09:59 .

[jtav]

I think it may be that we have such differing views of Miranda. I play up the superspy femme fatale angle, as well as the emotional abuse and difficulty opening up. The Miranda in my head is capable of torture and seduction to complete the mission. She tends to be on a tipping point between hero and villain, capable of either. She's less overtly emotional than some people's, and she isn't suited for a "marriage, kids, and a 9-to-5 job" happy ending. She also tends to be comfortable with her sexuality but is more uncertain within a romance and terrified that the other person will abandon or betray her. Also, I pair her with characters other than Shep, but I don't think that affects things too much except for driving Ieldra crazy.

Modifié par jtav, 20 septembre 2010 - 10:12 .

[fongiel24]

jtav wrote...

I think it may be that we have such differing views of Miranda. I play up the superspy femme fatale angle, as well as the emotional abuse and difficulty opening up. The Miranda in my head is capable of torture and seduction to complete the mission. She tends to be on a tipping point between hero and villain, capable of either. She's less overtly emotional than some people's, and she isn't suited for a "marriage, kids, and a 9-to-5 job" happy ending. She also tends to be comfortable with her sexuality but is more uncertain within a romance and terrified that the other person will abandon or betray her. Also, I pair her with characters other than Shep, but I don't think that affects things too much except for driving Ieldra crazy.

That sounds quite similar to "my" Miranda, only I don't emphasize the effects of the emotional abuse as much. It's still there, but it's largely something she's dealt with and is trying to leave behind. The femme fatale angle and the moral ambiguity are really things I wish Bioware had emphasized in her character.

[Spectre4hire]

I mostly follow different forums and rarely post, but I was drawn in by this group's discussion, so I thought I would reveal myself...

I think that it is disappointing that companies are after pure dollars and not the substance (story, characters, plot). Especially when you compare the sales of Mass Effect 1 and 2 to the popular shooter games. I guess that I am an old fashion customer who prefers stories and character development then simple point and shoot games...

I am a Miranda supporter, I find her independence, her array of skills and talents, her past, (I could continue for awhile) all compelling especially her loyalty mission. So +1 Miranda fan to this forum.

Modifié par Spectre4hire , 20 septembre 2010 - 10:39 .

[jtav]

Nice to have you Spectre4hire . I agree with you.



fongiel, I don't think she thinks about the abuse more than she has to, but it's always in the back of my mind, even if rarely deal with it directly. I attribute her low self esteem almost entirely to that. "My" Miranda tends to unconsciously believe she doesn't deserve to be happy. In the story I'm working on now, Liara has to tell her directly that she wants her before Miranda will believe it and a very long time before she believes she isn't going to be tossed aside. She's learned she never gets to keep the things she most wants.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

Liara, now? Exactly how many people have you paired her up with?

Personally don't like since these romance come off imo as cheesier than the one with Shepard, but I'm curious nonetheless.

[Liec]

fongiel24 wrote...

The only parts of the iPartners transcripts that bug me if the health checks and the SR2 username, the health checks because they seem to suggest Miranda is searching for a donor (which as I've already explained makes very little sense to me), and the SR2 username because the idea that Miranda was chasing tail during ME2 seems a little ridiculous. Clinically searching for casual sex on the extranet doesn't seem any worse to me than going to a bar to pick up drunk girls. I think it just seems strange because in this case it's a female character doing it.

The way I see it, Miranda didn't have many options if she wanted the healthiest child possible. She could have gone to a sperm bank, but then she would have to go through tests and leave a paper trail that could put her child at an unnecessary risk if Miranda's father's men were to find that information (and sure she got tested for sterility, but it was on Illium under request for privacy, probably with a contract involved and when she could no longer avoid it). She didn't date and if she got 'help' from one of her coworkers she'd have to deal with the father. Guys at bars don't carry their medical histories with them for some reason, so that's out. At least with iPartner she could keep her anonymity while also getting medical information about her partner. It's the lesser evil.
I don't think the 'SR2' necessarily means that the chats happened during ME2. The ship wasn't built in a day, she could have chosen that nick at any time while working on the Lazarus project.

Modifié par Liec, 20 septembre 2010 - 11:24 .

[Throw_this_away]

Ieldra2 wrote...

I have no issues with the content, but consider the style. It's so stereotypical, and insulting to an intelligent character like Miranda. She sounds like a sociopath in these excerpts. Were she like that, she'd never been successful as a Cerberus operative. Again, if that's Bioware's idea of humor, they can keep it.

I think that it is this kind of cold calculated approach that made her sucessful at what she does.  It was interesting to see her use the ssame approach for relationships/reproduction. 

I also love the chatting  and supposed "hookup" part it because it is poking fun at the red blooded man.  The same guys that Miranda was marketed to appeal to with her "assets."  Presumably the guy knew what she looked like (or maybe not).  Even after her acting like a sociopath, he presumably met up with her.  What red blooded single man would not?  So full of truth. 

[jtav]

DarthCyclopsRLZ wrote...

Liara, now? Exactly how many people have you paired her up with?

Personally don't like since these romance come off imo as cheesier than the one with Shepard, but I'm curious nonetheless.

Yes, Liara. It's pretty close to my OTP. There's a fic sample on page 233.  I ship her with Kaidan, Thane, and Liara. I like Miranda/Jacob in a doomed way. Don't care for Shepard/Miranda that much, though I've stopped frothing at the mouth.

[DarthCyclopsRLZ]

I remember your... 'not caring much' for Shepard/Miranda, lol.

That being said, I think my interest for the game and pairing has been somewhat rekindled by going through the game as Default Shepard (finally got the xbox version, went through an achievement-gaining speed run).

A neutral, hard-assed, intenseand focused Bauer-esque persona who doesn't leave things to chance seems like a perfect match, really

Modifié par DarthCyclopsRLZ, 21 septembre 2010 - 12:15 .

[snfonseka]

fongiel24 wrote...

The only parts of the iPartners transcripts that bug me if the health checks and the SR2 username, the health checks because they seem to suggest Miranda is searching for a donor (which as I've already explained makes very little sense to me), and the SR2 username because the idea that Miranda was chasing tail during ME2 seems a little ridiculous. Clinically searching for casual sex on the extranet doesn't seem any worse to me than going to a bar to pick up drunk girls. I think it just seems strange because in this case it's a female character doing it.

Actually it won't make any sense at all.

Because she is not a "standard" female character. Lets just think in this way, a girl goes to a bar/ club and hook-up with a total stranger for a one night stand. Miranda, on the other hand doing the same thing by staying at her own room.

Modifié par snfonseka, 21 septembre 2010 - 03:27 .

[Caihn]

Firefox users, I made a Miranda personas if you are interested :

 

http://www.getperson.../persona/298600


I will make new ones soon.


And for those who like Yvonne Strahovski : Chuck Season 4 has just started. 
The first episode is amazing !

Modifié par Yannkee, 21 septembre 2010 - 04:13 .

[Axestone]

Yannkee, nice theme, thanks =)

[Jebel Krong]

Ieldra2 wrote...

jtav wrote...
Miranda seems to have been targeted at males aged 15-30, give or take a few years. On the forums, I'd say that Tali was more successful at reaching the under-25s. There also seems to be significant overlap between people like Liara and people who like Miranda, though they may not be interested in actually romancing her.

It certainly seems as if Liara and Miranda fans get along better than some other groups. As for the age, I guess the over 35-group isn't worth considering... *grumbles*

he i was going to complain about not being included by being 32 in 2 months... 

oh and - just so i don't feel left out - :wub: Miranda :wub:

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:05 .

[ComTrav]

t3HPrO wrote...

Why'd they leave the forum?

To pwn n00bs in Starcraft II.

People's interest in different games (and posting on forums about those games) ebbs and flows. I myself was just looking for some DA2 info when I thought, "hey, I should go say hi to the Miranda thread." I suspect there'll be a lot more activity in all the chracter threads once some news about ME3 is officially announced. (Which I'm personally surprised hasn't happened yet...)

But, fanbase on teh internets is, after all, only one measurement of a character's popularity. Most of my IRL friends who have played ME and ME2 are surprised to learn that Tali is far and away the most popular character on the forums. 






FURTHER:

[Ieldra]

Throw_this_away wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...
I have no issues with the content, but consider the style. It's so stereotypical, and insulting to an intelligent character like Miranda. She sounds like a sociopath in these excerpts. Were she like that, she'd never been successful as a Cerberus operative. Again, if that's Bioware's idea of humor, they can keep it.

I think that it is this kind of cold calculated approach that made her sucessful at what she does.  It was interesting to see her use the ssame approach for relationships/reproduction.

Here's the catch: The coldly calculated approach in social situations doesn't work if you show it. What I meant was that Miranda couldn't be a successful operative if she couldn't avoid showing how calculated her approach is. I imagine if you met Miranda in a social situation, you'd see anything between a polite and delightful woman, depending on the situation, even a coquettish one, while from her POV you'd see how she's calculating how to act in a way that she gets what she wants. 
The second point is that I think it's not all an act, that Miranda can be somewhat more sociable for real if she wants to, only she doesn't care to be most of the time because she doesn't care for company with the exception of those she loves and trusts, and because she believes it doesn't matter in the long run.

I also love the chatting  and supposed "hookup" part it because it is poking fun at the red blooded man.  The same guys that Miranda was marketed to appeal to with her "assets."  Presumably the guy knew what she looked like (or maybe not).  Even after her acting like a sociopath, he presumably met up with her.  What red blooded single man would not?  So full of truth. 

Really, you think so? I say it depends on the alternatives. Sex acted out as nothing more but a business transaction isn't enjoyable, and you might actually prefer a slightly less perfect appearance paired with a slightly more approachable personality. Really, Miranda's acting extreme - not even a short goodbye or "see you there" for politeness' sake for the man she's going to meet. That's not coldly calculating, that's a caricature.

@ComTrav:
Nice of you to pop in. And thanks for re-posting one of my favorite Miranda pictures.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:21 .

[Breakdown Boy]

I really feel sorry for the poor lady gamers as they don't have great LI dialogues in ME2. I mean take the Garrus LI for instance; this guy is your buddy, your best friend in the game and you would be willing to comprimise that by giving a line like "We could work out stress together." I mean come on! And when Thane is like talking about his dead wife and you being the only friend he has in years you want to say "I want you Thane." I mean come on!



I did not do any of those LI's just because of the poor dialogue and because I didn't want to bone my best friend or Thane (his story is really boring to me, I always skip his story), even Jacob, I mean you bearley know the guy for 5 minutes and you are given the option to hit on him. What is that about?



At least the male LI options (Miri, Jack, Tali) takes you a while to get there. I still think the Miri LI story is the best then it would be the new Liara option and then Tali and Jack.



Anyway, a new chapter of my fanfic is up, check it out.

[Jebel Krong]

thane and garrus are cool (not that i have done a femshep run in me2 as i can't stand hale's voice) - i found them interesting as characters, especially garrus now is like chewie to your han, but everything about jacob's content is creepy and ill-thought out.

mind you apart from miranda, the male romances are not much better - tali is as annoying as ever (and i recruit her last because of it), kelly is....weird and jack is possibly the worst-conceived character in a game. ever. and if she wasn't mandatory i'd never have gone near her, or - given the option - flushed her straight out the airlock (especially after the confrontation with miranda, i'd have gone inflitrator and killed her on the spot).

Modifié par Jebel Krong, 21 septembre 2010 - 08:42 .

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Really, you think so? I say it depends on the alternatives. Sex acted out as nothing more but a business transaction isn't enjoyable, and you might actually prefer a slightly less perfect appearance paired with a slightly more approachable personality. Really, Miranda's acting extreme - not even a short goodbye or "see you there" for politeness' sake for the man she's going to meet. That's not coldly calculating, that's a caricature.

I see it as nothing more than a "friends with benefits" arrangement, only without the "friends" part. I don't interpret it as either "coldly calculating" or as a "caricature", I see it as Miranda emphasizing (both to herself and her partner) that their encounter is to be strictly physical with no emotional entanglements to get in the way. The less details they exchange, the less risk to Miranda of being found out or having her terminal traced.

[Breakdown Boy]

Jebel Krong wrote...

thane and garrus are cool (not that i have done a femshep run in me2 as i can't stand hale's voice) - i found them interesting as characters, especially garrus now is like chewie to your han, but everything about jacob's content is creepy and ill-thought out.

mind you apart from miranda, the male romances are not much better - tali is as annoying as ever (and i recruit her last because of it), kelly is....weird and jack is possibly the worst-conceived character in a game. ever. and if she wasn't mandatory i'd never have gone near her, or - given the option - flushed her straight out the airlock (especially after the confrontation with miranda, i'd have gone inflitrator and killed her on the spot).

When Jack threatens Miri I can see Shepard pulling a Ripley (Aliens): "Get away from her you ****!"  and blam!!!

[fongiel24]

Jebel Krong wrote...

mind you apart from miranda, the male romances are not much better - tali is as annoying as ever (and i recruit her last because of it), kelly is....weird and jack is possibly the worst-conceived character in a game. ever. and if she wasn't mandatory i'd never have gone near her, or - given the option - flushed her straight out the airlock (especially after the confrontation with miranda, i'd have gone inflitrator and killed her on the spot).

I think this is a bit subjective. I'm not a huge fan of Tali's romance either (I'm on the fence regarding the character) but it resonated with a large part of the hardcore fanbase. I can't explain why and I doubt I'll ever understand the appeal, but obviously it was written well enough to appeal to a lot of people. As for Jack, I find the romance creepy, but the character is quite interesting, even if I find Jack's reasoning for her views on life to be bullsh*t a lot of the time.

Finding her in Miranda's office was over the line though. I'm not saying this as a Miranda fan, but rather the obvious detrimental effect she has on team unity. As the commanding officer, Shepard has a responsibility to either deal with problem cases or excise them. Obviously he wasn't able to deal with Jack effectively and integrate her properly into the team. I might not have flushed her out an airlock then, but I would have seriously considered dropping her off at a secure detention facility on my next stop.

Modifié par fongiel24, 21 septembre 2010 - 09:03 .

[ComTrav]

fongiel24 wrote...


I think this is a bit subjective. I'm not a huge fan of Tali's romance either (I'm on the fence regarding the character) but it resonated with a large part of the hardcore fanbase. I can't explain why and I doubt I'll ever understand the appeal, but obviously it was written well enough to appeal to a lot of people. As for Jack, I find the romance creepy, but the character is quite interesting, even if I find Jack's reasoning for her views on life to be bullsh*t a lot of the time.

I've always personally felt 'she's the cute dorky girl with the glasses' is the most succinct way to explain Tali's appeal.

But yes, I tend to agree that I liked almost all of the ME male romance options better then the female ones. I acknowledge, though, that I'm probably not the target audience for some of the LIs; although there are plenty of guys who play a female Shepard. (ME is unusual is it's one of the only games I play a human male...I usually pick a female, or a non-human character, idk why.)