15168 réponses à ce sujet

[Ieldra]

t3HPrO wrote...
Also, Miranda is the 'go out and do things herself' kind of woman, so I don't see her whacking out TIM and giving orders to agents like he did. It would be more likely that she stays on as your XO as she knows she is directly making an impact on situations. And that is another thing she craves. To have a direct impact on events greater than her, so that she won't feel so much like a tool to be used by others.

That's not quite true. She is/was a Cerberus cell leader, one step down from TIM himself. There also can be no doubt that TIM has so far had a greater impact on the bigger picture than Miranda. Shepard will do his thing with or without her help, but taking over from TIM would be something entirely her own. She'd also have the chance to change some of the less desirable things about Cerberus. I cannot see her not being thrilled by such a task.

Please note: I do want to see her as a team member in ME3, but not necessarily for the whole of the game. My favorite scenario is that Shepard helps her take down TIM, after which she's absent for some time to reorganize things. She'll then come back some time later with something that helps against the Reapers in a big way.

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 septembre 2010 - 07:45 .

[Ieldra]

t3HPrO wrote...
Basically put, Miranda's wish to blow the base to hell is completely in character, especially since she's seen Shepard helping people out. And it may also have something to do with her not wanting to be a mere tool, and she applied that to the thousands of colonists turned into soup.

The problem is that destroying the base doesn't help anyone, and keeping it definitely doesn't betray anyone, as implied by what she says if you select the lower option in the first step of the dialogue with TIM. If it did, then I'd agree with you her actions could be interpreted that way.
That she's changed her opinion of TIM seems obvious, and I don't have a problem with it. It's consistent with that change of opinion that she'd want to deny him the base. But not at the price of destroying it altogether, at a point where the knowledge contained in it might be so very useful in the fight against the Reapers. That's the part I see as OOC.

OK, enough about that. This dead horse has been beaten to pulp...

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 septembre 2010 - 07:49 .

[Arijharn]

Actually, what I disliked the most about the character commentary about your decision to save the base isn't that they thought it was a bad idea and that I was obviously backing the wrong horse, is that no one offered me an alternative. They just said 'twas bad and that they didn't trust the Illusive Man.' but there is no middle ground really so essentially it was criticism, but without any constructiveness.



Ieldra2, when can I expect a new chapter?

[Ieldra]

Arijharn wrote...
Ieldra2, when can I expect a new chapter?

The next chapter of "Promethean Legacy" will have to wait. I'm at work on "Masks and Mirrors", which takes priority because I have a deadline for it. It will probably be published as one, so there will be a time with not much output, excepting maybe excerpts. 

[Caihn]

t3HPrO wrote...

Also, Miranda is the 'go out and do things herself' kind of woman, so I don't see her whacking out TIM and giving orders to agents like he did. It would be more likely that she stays on as your XO as she knows she is directly making an impact on situations. And that is another thing she craves. To have a direct impact on events greater than her, so that she won't feel so much like a tool to be used by others.

I agree, but she can also replace TIM. 
She doesn't have to lead the organization like TIM do. She could reorganize Cerberus.
I don't want a cameo : Miranda, new leader of Cerberus. I want her to be at Shepard side, fighting the reapers, and providing help with Cerberus resources.

t3HPrO wrote...

Basically put, Miranda's wish to blow the base to hell is completely in character, especially since she's seen Shepard helping people out. And it may also have something to do with her not wanting to be a mere tool, and she applied that to the thousands of colonists turned into soup.

I agree.
I even find this completely logical, considering her character development.

Modifié par Yannkee, 23 septembre 2010 - 09:03 .

[Aedan1992]

I know everyone has a different opinion about miranda and i respect that. But in the end bioware decide if things are within her character or not.

[snfonseka]

I am not so eager to see Miranda as the new leader of Cerberus.

[Caihn]

snfonseka wrote...

I am not so eager to see Miranda as the new leader of Cerberus.

I like the idea, but it's not my first wish for Miranda in ME3.

[Ieldra]

Aedan1992 wrote...
I know everyone has a different opinion about miranda and i respect that. But in the end bioware decide if things are within her character or not.

...yes, but fictional characters are open to problems of perceived inconsistency, especially if a character expresses behaviour never seen before in an important situation, with not even a hint that that character would think/act that way. Unfortunately, unlike in RL, we can't go and ask Miranda: "That's not like you, why did you do it?" Then there's the problem that Bioware likely doesn't want to shape its characters in a too narrow way, in order to broaden their appeal to different players. Last but not least, there's the limit of the medium - were ME a book, we could possibly expect some insight into Miranda's thinking, the part she doesn't show anyone. That would answer a lot of questions. As it is, we're left with nothing but speculation about her motives - see, for instance, the various ways her use of a dating service can be interpreted.

To come back to the eternal controversy: for some us, Miranda's statement "...it feels like a betrayal" goes beyond the interpretable into the realm of the unbelievable. That's when people start to consider it OOC. 

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 septembre 2010 - 09:48 .

[Ieldra]

snfonseka wrote...
I am not so eager to see Miranda as the new leader of Cerberus.

I think neither jtav or I, who are AFAIR the main proponents of this idea, want Miranda to lead Cerberus in the same way TIM did. An organization like Cerberus always operates in morally grey areas, but it needs to have its excesses curbed. I don't think we'd see something like the Teltin facility under Miranda's leadership.  

Modifié par Ieldra2, 23 septembre 2010 - 09:54 .

[Caihn]

Aedan1992 wrote...

I know everyone has a different opinion about miranda and i respect that. But in the end bioware decide if things are within her character or not.

I completely agree with you

Also, if you are interested, I made a video of the end game of my last playthrough.
 
My "perfect" ending. 

Modifié par Yannkee, 23 septembre 2010 - 09:58 .

[Aedan1992]

To me it seems that miranda don't trust the TIM using. Do you really think he is going to give up all that power and technology after the reapers are destroyed.

[Aedan1992]

Yannkee wrote...

Aedan1992 wrote...

I know everyone has a different opinion about miranda and i respect that. But in the end bioware decide if things are within her character or not.

I completely agree with you

Also, if you are interested, I made a video of the end game of my last playthrough.
 
My "perfect" ending. 

My favorite ending^_^

[Caihn]

This page need pictures ...

[Caihn]

Aedan1992 wrote...

To me it seems that miranda don't trust the TIM using. Do you really think he is going to give up all that power and technology after the reapers are destroyed.

I don't think he will have the opportunity to keep it. To me, it would be a surprise if the current Cerberus with his leader still exist after the reapers destruction (if it's possible to destroyed the reapers).

Modifié par Yannkee, 23 septembre 2010 - 10:19 .

[snfonseka]

Ieldra2 wrote...

snfonseka wrote...
I am not so eager to see Miranda as the new leader of Cerberus.

I think neither jtav or I, who are AFAIR the main proponents of this idea, want Miranda to lead Cerberus in the same way TIM did. An organization like Cerberus always operates in morally grey areas, but it needs to have its excesses curbed. I don't think we'd see something like the Teltin facility under Miranda's leadership.  

I rather prefer if BW gives a chance to Shep to become the leader of the Cerberus, because without a doubt Shep is a better leader than Miranda.

[Caihn]

snfonseka wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

snfonseka wrote...
I am not so eager to see Miranda as the new leader of Cerberus.

I think neither jtav or I, who are AFAIR the main proponents of this idea, want Miranda to lead Cerberus in the same way TIM did. An organization like Cerberus always operates in morally grey areas, but it needs to have its excesses curbed. I don't think we'd see something like the Teltin facility under Miranda's leadership.  

I rather prefer if BW gives a chance to Shep to become the leader of the Cerberus, because without a doubt Shep is a better leader than Miranda.

He's better to lead people in combat, but I don't think he could lead an organization as efficient as Miranda could.

Modifié par Yannkee, 23 septembre 2010 - 10:23 .

[Aedan1992]

Yannkee wrote...

Aedan1992 wrote...

To me it seems that miranda don't trust the TIM using. Do you really think he is going to give up all that power and technology after the reapers are destroyed.

I don't think he will have the opportunity to keep it. To me, it would be a surprise if the current Cerberus with his leader still exist after the reapers destruction (if it's possible to destroyed the reapers).

I guess your right but i still don't trust TIM with all that power.

[snfonseka]

Aedan1992 wrote...

To me it seems that miranda don't trust the TIM using. Do you really think he is going to give up all that power and technology after the reapers are destroyed.

He won't and my Shep won't encourage Miranda to take power from TIM. Because the last thing Shep needs, is an internal power struggle within Cerberus.

[snfonseka]

Yannkee wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

snfonseka wrote...
I am not so eager to see Miranda as the new leader of Cerberus.

I think neither jtav or I, who are AFAIR the main proponents of this idea, want Miranda to lead Cerberus in the same way TIM did. An organization like Cerberus always operates in morally grey areas, but it needs to have its excesses curbed. I don't think we'd see something like the Teltin facility under Miranda's leadership.  

I rather prefer if BW gives a chance to Shep to become the leader of the Cerberus, because without a doubt Shep is a better leader than Miranda.

He's better to lead people in combat, but I don't think he could lead an organization as efficient as Miranda could.

Just because he never done this before?

[Ieldra]

Aedan1992 wrote...
To me it seems that miranda don't trust the TIM using. Do you really think he is going to give up all that power and technology after the reapers are destroyed.

Of course he isn't. Unfortunately, that doesn't change the fact that the information contained in the base is too valuable to destroy. It might mean the difference between survival and extinction (except it won't because Bioware won't do that, but that's meta-reasoning I prefer to avoid). 

OK, you can always interpret the scenes after the escape from the base, where some of Shepard's team handle datapads with Reaper information, to mean they already got everything they needed. I think it's a stretch, but it's the reasoning I use in the one game where I destroyed the base. If you interpret things that way, Miranda's recommendation to destroy the base becomes understandable, though the (fortunately avoidable) phrasing "it seems like a betrayal" doesn't seem like anything Miranda would say (I recall even Yannkee agreeing with the latter - or do I misremember?).

@Yannkee:
Thanks for the screenshots. Nice, as always. 

[snfonseka]

Yannkee wrote...

Aedan1992 wrote...

I know everyone has a different opinion about miranda and i respect that. But in the end bioware decide if things are within her character or not.

I completely agree with you

Also, if you are interested, I made a video of the end game of my last playthrough.
 
My "perfect" ending. 

Two characters died in the perfect ending ......

[Ieldra]

snfonseka wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

snfonseka wrote...
I am not so eager to see Miranda as the new leader of Cerberus.

I think neither jtav or I, who are AFAIR the main proponents of this idea, want Miranda to lead Cerberus in the same way TIM did. An organization like Cerberus always operates in morally grey areas, but it needs to have its excesses curbed. I don't think we'd see something like the Teltin facility under Miranda's leadership.  

I rather prefer if BW gives a chance to Shep to become the leader of the Cerberus, because without a doubt Shep is a better leader than Miranda.

He's better to lead people in combat, but I don't think he could lead an organization as efficient as Miranda could.

Just because he never done this before?

No, because he's portrayed as a commander, not a coordinator like Miranda. Patience, subtlely and quiet perseverance are definitely not his strength.

[Aedan1992]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Aedan1992 wrote...
To me it seems that miranda don't trust the TIM using. Do you really think he is going to give up all that power and technology after the reapers are destroyed.

Of course he isn't. Unfortunately, that doesn't change the fact that the information contained in the base is too valuable to destroy. It might mean the difference between survival and extinction (except it won't because Bioware won't do that, but that's meta-reasoning I prefer to avoid). 

OK, you can always interpret the scenes after the escape from the base, where some of Shepard's team handle datapads with Reaper information, to mean they already got everything they needed. I think it's a stretch, but it's the reasoning I use in the one game where I destroyed the base. If you interpret things that way, Miranda's recommendation to destroy the base becomes understandable, though the (fortunately avoidable) phrasing "it seems like a betrayal" doesn't seem like anything Miranda would say (I recall even Yannkee agreeing with the latter - or do I misremember?).

@Yannkee:
Thanks for the screenshots. Nice, as always. 

I see your point but for me its just part of miranda's character development. 

[Caihn]

snfonseka wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

snfonseka wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

snfonseka wrote...
I am not so eager to see Miranda as the new leader of Cerberus.

I think neither jtav or I, who are AFAIR the main proponents of this idea, want Miranda to lead Cerberus in the same way TIM did. An organization like Cerberus always operates in morally grey areas, but it needs to have its excesses curbed. I don't think we'd see something like the Teltin facility under Miranda's leadership.  

I rather prefer if BW gives a chance to Shep to become the leader of the Cerberus, because without a doubt Shep is a better leader than Miranda.

He's better to lead people in combat, but I don't think he could lead an organization as efficient as Miranda could.

Just because he never done this before?

Miranda also, she never did this before. But it's obvious that with her experience and her career profile, she's more competent than Shepard to lead a company / an organization.