15168 réponses à ce sujet

[fongiel24]

Arijharn wrote...

If we relied on subterfuge the way out I would wager the level would eventually become boring.

Thane's loyalty was, dare I say it, awesome because it was different, but not really that long either. Variance in mission structure is fun but it might not be an efficient usage of resources to put in a real stealth element like something from conviction or whatever for the sake of only a couple of levels.

I guess it's one of those things that are relegated to the backburner for the sake of gameplay in all honesty.

I understand this, but I wish the level displayed Kasumi's talents as a thief and hacker more. Instead of bringing the Hock's entire security force down on my head, maybe Kasumi could have been shown hacking communications or finding an alternate exfiltration route so that Shepard could avoid the majority of Hock's security. Shepard would still have to fight, but instead of facing an epic battle, there'd be a series of short, brutal encounters.

The way the DLC depicted it made it appear to me that Kasumi's only plan was to hack her way in, then allow Shepard to blow away everybody on the way out. Hardly the kind of approach I'd expect from a so-called master thief.

[Ieldra]

Pacifien wrote...
Miranda always struck me as someone who worked on her missions for the Illusive Man alone, using her brain to strategize how to achieve her goal. As time went on, that analytical nature lent itself to being a good manager of various projects by the Illusive Man. Now, I personally don't think that being a good project manager translates to a good military leader, but I do give Miranda props for being a quick thinker, to calculate the best scenarios as fast as a human could.

That's absolutely correct IMO. Combat is not her primary focus, intelligence, science and management is.

Actually, I think of Miranda much like the character of the Black Widow from the Avengers comics (or more like you see in Iron Man 2). She is precise, she is quick, she is deadly. And while she can work with others in combat scenarios, it's not her forte.

@jtav:
I recall you making that comparison. I didn't disagree with you. IIRC, I said I couldn't say because I don't know those comics. From what I read on Wikipedia, the comparison seems apt.

Anyway, I also felt that Miranda was given the Lazarus Project because of not only her project management skills, but a likely background specifically in medical science, and, most of all, her complete agreement with the Illusive Man on Shepard's importance. For some reason, the Illusive Man believed no other human could fill Shepard's role in this critical time with the Reaper threat. Did Miranda share such devotion to that belief or what it devotion to the Illusive Man's beliefs whatever they may be?

From the ME2, it seems she shares the belief. "But Shepard, he's a symbol, a bloody icon. If we lose Shepard, humanity may well follow." (the phrasing might be slightly incorrect)

[Ieldra]

Spectre4hire wrote...
@Ieldra2: sounds like a really good story. Is up to read? Or are you still working on it?

Not up yet. As I said, I have a deadline.

[Jebel Krong]

LuxDragon wrote...

Besides the fact that getting and getting the grey box was the easy part. Getting out required shooting everything up and blowing a gunship. That required Shepard's skillset.

best. post. evar. (because it's so true). 

[Arijharn]

fongiel24 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

If we relied on subterfuge the way out I would wager the level would eventually become boring.

Thane's loyalty was, dare I say it, awesome because it was different, but not really that long either. Variance in mission structure is fun but it might not be an efficient usage of resources to put in a real stealth element like something from conviction or whatever for the sake of only a couple of levels.

I guess it's one of those things that are relegated to the backburner for the sake of gameplay in all honesty.

I understand this, but I wish the level displayed Kasumi's talents as a thief and hacker more. Instead of bringing the Hock's entire security force down on my head, maybe Kasumi could have been shown hacking communications or finding an alternate exfiltration route so that Shepard could avoid the majority of Hock's security. Shepard would still have to fight, but instead of facing an epic battle, there'd be a series of short, brutal encounters.

The way the DLC depicted it made it appear to me that Kasumi's only plan was to hack her way in, then allow Shepard to blow away everybody on the way out. Hardly the kind of approach I'd expect from a so-called master thief.

That's true, but I think the real issue is that a 'Master Thief' doesn't really have a place in a suicide mission against an entire species.

If there was something that highlighted Kasumi's capabilities as a sneaky thief in game like you suggest, it would probably be reasonable to assume that she should be able to use these abilities in the game proper as well. Unless we're talking about something really subtle like as long as Kasumi is in your party, you will automatically bypass or hack any security system you interact with (actually... that sounds pretty darn awesome)

[Jebel Krong]

jtav wrote...

Unedited, as per usual. I appreciate you guys being my guinea pigs. This story is a blast to do. First third is almost done, but I don't know if I'll serialize or post in one go.

Miranda took an involuntary step back. Liara was planning on doing what? No. No. No one in their right mind would attempt to eliminate the Shadow Broker. He was the most powerful man in the galaxy. Cerberus
wielded considerable influence, but even the Illusive Man had only spoken of thwarting the occasional scheme when the Broker's plans would prove particularly troubling. The rest of the time, he had been a necessary evil that they had used while trying to give up as few of their own secrets as possible. And then he tried to hand Shepard's body  to the Collectors. Miranda would have dearly loved to see his head on a pike, but Cerberus didn't possess the resources to take on the Shadow Broker directly, even before the Lazarus Project. What chance did one person have? There were rumors of assassins and mercenaries who had tried to kill the Broker for one reason or another. No one had ever seen them again. And now Liara was joining their number. "And you called me insane. What is this? Some twisted form of asari nobility? Feron is dead because of you, so you're honor bound to throw your life away avenging him?"

Liara turned away. She clutched her arms, as if to ward off the cold. "I had a choice, Miranda. I could either save Feron or I could save Shepard. I chose the dead body. I've condemned Feron to either a slow death or something worse. And all because I couldn't let  one human go." Her voice cracked. "The least I can do is make sure the Shadow Broker never makes another bargain with the Collectors. The Shadow Broker claims to be neutral, but all he's done is spread more  death and misery throughout the galaxy. I can stop him. Shepard will never forgive me for handing him to you, but perhaps I can forgive myself. Besides, if I don't stop him, who will?"

"Look at me." Miranda seized Liara by the shoulders and spun her so that they were once again facing each other. Liara's eyes glittered, either with anger or unshed tears. It didn't matter which. She had to make Liara understand. The girl was too brilliant and driven to throw her life away. "I've been with Cerberus for over half my life. I've tortured people for information. I've had to kill people who didn't particularly deserve it because that was the most efficient way of accomplishing the task at hand. That's the world you're walking into. You'll be killed."

"And there's a very good chance you'll be killed if I give you Shepard's memories."

"I know." She shrugged. Sometimes sacrifices had to be made for the greater good. "I'm willing to risk it."

Liara's lips quirked upward slightly, and for a moment she looked precisely as Miranda had remembered her. Her chest jolted. "It seems we both have a death wish." Her eyes darkened, and the spell was broken. "Though I would prefer we both survived."

"So would I." And perhaps there was a way for Liara, at least to survive. Miranda felt herself trembling slightly. Yes, there was a way. "Let's make a deal, T'Soni. If you give me Shepard's memories, then I'll teach you everything I know about acquiring information. I assure you that I know a great deal: the proper way to bribe an official without giving offense, when to use charm and when to use force, how to find someone who can hack into the databases of a prominent salarian family and steal copy of their genetic data..." She let the last few words hang in the air. Liara remained silent. "You say you want to survive this? Then let me help you."

Liara bit her lip, thinking. "No," she said at last.

"No?" Her voice felt hollow. She felt hollow. It was one thing to be thwarted when she wanted something. It was quite another to fail in a vital mission. She'd thought Liara was better than this, that she would do what she had to to ensure that Feron's sacrifice meant something. She wasn't supposed to be stupid and selfish. She wasn't supposed to be anything like Gail.

"No. I don't want you to tell me how to find someone to get the data for me. I want you to teach me how to get the data myself."

"Y-you do?" Her voice wavered, and Miranda silence cursed herself. She should not be sounding like an overeager schoolgirl. And yet... Liara will help. Liara will help. I wasn't wrong. "I can do that."

Liara held up a hand. "One memory for one lesson. After that, we'll see how it goes. If I think the strain is proving too much for you, then I'll stop the transfer then and there. Understood?"

"Perfectly." This wouldn't be too much for her. The mission was too important. She would teach Liara. She would be either acquire the tools to survive on her insane quest and learn how to succeed as an information broker or she would give up after learning she had to get her hands dirty. Either way, she wouldn't die. Not soon. "We can start this evening. I have an apartment here in Nos Astra. More of a safehouse really." She tapped another
button on her omni-tool. "My address. Is 8:30 acceptable?"

"Fine." Liara sounded a little dazed, as if she couldn't quite believe she had agreed to this. "You do realize that, even if this does work, and I don't accidentally kill you, that I will take time. Perhaps as much as a month. "

A month. A month with Liara. "I think you'll find I can be a very patient woman."

i've bolded the parts i think are in error/could be changed if you wanted:

miranda's skill-set would be self-evident to Liara, even at this point, she wouldn't need to qualify it with an "i assure you i do know a great deal.." - she'd just launch right into it.

grammar and spelling in the next sentence.

i don't think Miranda would be surprised by that request given Liara's personality and the conversation up to that point - her determination and self-reliance is quite clear (and similar to Miranda's own), so i doubt you'd hear any wavering in her voice, both have made up their minds already.

overall pretty good excerpt.

[Jebel Krong]

actually miranda's combat abilities as mentioned are mirrored in-game. her power-set is great against all enemies, but she isn't the best combat specialist (mainly hindered by weapon selection) - grunt, zaeed, samara and legion are more hardy than her, as you'd expect.



as for kasumi, she obviously had a plan for getting in, but not out - it's obvious she didn't know what to expect in the actual vault and was explicitly relying on shepard's abilities to handle anything that came up (as well as her own). it would have been nice to see Miranda react to Shepard first wearing the new suit before the mission, though.

[snfonseka]

fongiel24 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

If we relied on subterfuge the way out I would wager the level would eventually become boring.

Thane's loyalty was, dare I say it, awesome because it was different, but not really that long either. Variance in mission structure is fun but it might not be an efficient usage of resources to put in a real stealth element like something from conviction or whatever for the sake of only a couple of levels.

I guess it's one of those things that are relegated to the backburner for the sake of gameplay in all honesty.

I understand this, but I wish the level displayed Kasumi's talents as a thief and hacker more. Instead of bringing the Hock's entire security force down on my head, maybe Kasumi could have been shown hacking communications or finding an alternate exfiltration route so that Shepard could avoid the majority of Hock's security. Shepard would still have to fight, but instead of facing an epic battle, there'd be a series of short, brutal encounters.

The way the DLC depicted it made it appear to me that Kasumi's only plan was to hack her way in, then allow Shepard to blow away everybody on the way out. Hardly the kind of approach I'd expect from a so-called master thief.

+ Kasumi doesn't know that she needs to avoid the detection of the camera, while hacking the camera. Staying infront of a camera while hacking it won't be helpful for a stelth mission.

Modifié par snfonseka, 24 septembre 2010 - 10:32 .

[snfonseka]

Arijharn wrote...

.......

That's true, but I think the real issue is that a 'Master Thief' doesn't really have a place in a suicide mission against an entire species.

If there was something that highlighted Kasumi's capabilities as a sneaky thief in game like you suggest, it would probably be reasonable to assume that she should be able to use these abilities in the game proper as well. Unless we're talking about something really subtle like as long as Kasumi is in your party, you will automatically bypass or hack any security system you interact with (actually... that sounds pretty darn awesome)

This one supports this idea!

Jebel Krong wrote...

actually miranda's combat abilities
as mentioned are mirrored in-game. her power-set is great against all
enemies, but she isn't the best combat specialist (mainly hindered by
weapon selection) - grunt, zaeed, samara and legion are more hardy than
her, as you'd expect.

as for kasumi, she obviously had a plan for
getting in, but not out - it's obvious she didn't know what to expect
in the actual vault and was explicitly relying on shepard's abilities to
handle anything that came up (as well as her own). it would have been nice to see Miranda react to Shepard first wearing the new suit before the mission, though.

I think you are refering to the female Shep , because for male Shep there is no major difference between that outfit and Cerberus commanding officer outfit....

Modifié par snfonseka, 24 septembre 2010 - 10:31 .

[Jebel Krong]

nope, i was referring to maleshep - it's not amazingly different, no but it is different (enough for kasumi to notice/comment - why wouldn't your LI?).

[Arijharn]

Mainly for fiscal reasons I'd suspect.



I'm inclined to believe that they don't necessarily pre-plan DLC's so far as to record their lines during VO casting.



It would be nice to hear her say: "Wow, you look hot in that suit" but I don't think it's all that important tbh.

[Caihn]

Found on deviantart :



http://kryxia.devian...randa-180328499

[Jebel Krong]

yeah this one appeared also:



cr: here

[Ieldra]

@Yannkee, Jebel Krong:
Nice finds

Modifié par Ieldra2, 24 septembre 2010 - 04:03 .

[jtav]

I almost through with my FemShep game. Miranda is one of the few characters I feel like I can become friends with and who doesn't lose much by not being romanced. The chat in the CIC is a better conclusion to your relationship than the sex scene. She was dismissive, even contemptuous, of you after Lazarus, and now she's saluting you. Real character growth there.

[SgtPotato]

snfonseka wrote...

fongiel24 wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

If we relied on subterfuge the way out I would wager the level would eventually become boring.

Thane's loyalty was, dare I say it, awesome because it was different, but not really that long either. Variance in mission structure is fun but it might not be an efficient usage of resources to put in a real stealth element like something from conviction or whatever for the sake of only a couple of levels.

I guess it's one of those things that are relegated to the backburner for the sake of gameplay in all honesty.

I understand this, but I wish the level displayed Kasumi's talents as a thief and hacker more. Instead of bringing the Hock's entire security force down on my head, maybe Kasumi could have been shown hacking communications or finding an alternate exfiltration route so that Shepard could avoid the majority of Hock's security. Shepard would still have to fight, but instead of facing an epic battle, there'd be a series of short, brutal encounters.

The way the DLC depicted it made it appear to me that Kasumi's only plan was to hack her way in, then allow Shepard to blow away everybody on the way out. Hardly the kind of approach I'd expect from a so-called master thief.

+ Kasumi doesn't know that she needs to avoid the detection of the camera, while hacking the camera. Staying infront of a camera while hacking it won't be helpful for a stelth mission.

Well, you took out the security room in the first place and removed the guards? right?  

[Ieldra]

jtav wrote...
I almost through with my FemShep game. Miranda is one of the few characters I feel like I can become friends with and who doesn't lose much by not being romanced. The chat in the CIC is a better conclusion to your relationship than the sex scene. She was dismissive, even contemptuous, of you after Lazarus, and now she's saluting you. Real character growth there.

Going from contemptuous and dismissive to respectful isn't a sign of character growth. That she's learned things about Shepard that makes her respect her says nothing about her own personality, except that she is able to learn. Also, I'm not particularly fond of the salute, don't ask me why, it just rubs me the wrong way.

[t3HPrO]

If it were me who designed Kasumi's loyalty, Shep, Miri and Kasumi wouldve gone in. Kasumi would hack and disable anything while Miranda would seduce Hock into showing her the graybox under the pretext of her being impressed by his vast wealth. Then Kasumi would grab the box and all three would gtfo before Hock knew anything. Shepard would be the plan b in case the s#it hit the fan.



@jtav

Good excerpt, but I still can't see Miri going for anyone other than Shepard. Only she/he can stand up to Miranda in a relationship and take the lead. Liara couldn't, and neither could Kaidan. They're too 'nice'.

[t3HPrO]

@Ieldra2

I quite liked Miri's salute. How'd it ****** you off?

[jtav]

Point taken Ieldra. I still like the salute.



@t3HPrO



Nice is not weak. Kaidan and Liara are two of the strongest characters in the series. They both have the capacity to be Miranda's equal. And, as I have said, I don't like Shepard/Miranda.

[Caihn]

t3HPrO wrote...
Good excerpt, but I still can't see Miri going for anyone other than Shepard. Only she/he can stand up to Miranda in a relationship and take the lead. Liara couldn't, and neither could Kaidan. They're too 'nice'.

I can see Miri going for Kaidan, but I think (my) Shepard is her perfect match. 

[Ieldra]

t3HPrO wrote...
I quite liked Miri's salute. How'd it ****** you off?

I guess it reminds me too much of things I don't like - like military etiquette and behaviour. I can't imagine how anyone can get through boot camp without shooting the drill sergeant.

[Ieldra]

Yannkee wrote...

t3HPrO wrote...
Good excerpt, but I still can't see Miri going for anyone other than Shepard. Only she/he can stand up to Miranda in a relationship and take the lead. Liara couldn't, and neither could Kaidan. They're too 'nice'.

I can see Miri going for Kaidan, but I think (my) Shepard is her perfect match. 

Let's say I have Shepards I play as being her perfect match, though it's not easy. Regarding Kaidan, he is a perfect match personality-wise, he only lacks Shepard's presence and superhuman competence in blowing things up. Actually, now that I think of it, I play my main Shepard as one who has some of Kaidan's attributes.

[fongiel24]

Ieldra2 wrote...

t3HPrO wrote...
I quite liked Miri's salute. How'd it ****** you off?

I guess it reminds me too much of things I don't like - like military etiquette and behaviour. I can't imagine how anyone can get through boot camp without shooting the drill sergeant.

Lol, because they'd immediately line you up against the wall the next day? Military discipline isn't for everyone, but the idea of serving your country and being a part of something bigger than yourself is appealing to some people. I can't say I'm crazy about the salute either. Jacob saluting makes sense because he's ex-Alliance but Miranda isn't. A handshake or a hug would seem more appropriate for her, I think. Does anybody have a link to video of the salute btw? I've never played through ME2 and not romanced Miranda so I've yet to see it.

[jtav]

Ieldra2 wrote...

Let's say I have Shepards I play as being her perfect match, though it's not easy. Regarding Kaidan, he is a perfect match personality-wise, he only lacks Shepard's presence and superhuman competence in blowing things up. Actually, now that I think of it, I play my main Shepard as one who has some of Kaidan's attributes.

Me, too. Kaidan is one of those men who knows exactly who he is and what he stands for. He's more idealistic, but he isn't irrational, nor does he have a tendency to go off half-cocked. That would appeal to her. He is also very intelligent and knows how to read people. They'd complement each other beautifully.