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Miranda Lawson - our favorite woman in the galaxy (III)


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#6351
LuxDragon

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

I have a question.
I'm thinking of making a new version, with some little enhancements, of my Miranda tribute video (the one on the OP).

But, I would like to know which version of the song I used in the romance part, you prefer.
- The one I used in the video : Two Steps from Hell - Undying Love (Choir Extended Mix)
- Or this one : Two Steps from Hell - Undying Love

The first one is considerably more epic. Stick to that one.
BTW: has this music been used in a movie anywhere? It sounds like that...


I like the first as well. Way more dramatic. I can barely listen to the second one after listening to the first.

#6352
Spectre4hire

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LuxDragon wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

I have a question.
I'm thinking of making a new version, with some little enhancements, of my Miranda tribute video (the one on the OP).

But, I would like to know which version of the song I used in the romance part, you prefer.
- The one I used in the video : Two Steps from Hell - Undying Love (Choir Extended Mix)
- Or this one : Two Steps from Hell - Undying Love

The first one is considerably more epic. Stick to that one.
BTW: has this music been used in a movie anywhere? It sounds like that...


No brainer, it has to be the first song.

I like the first as well. Way more dramatic. I can barely listen to the second one after listening to the first.



#6353
Spectre4hire

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Hmmm sorry for the double post.

Modifié par Spectre4hire , 26 septembre 2010 - 06:41 .


#6354
Nightwriter

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Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

Ieldra2 wrote...

Yannkee wrote...

Arijharn wrote...

True, but a little bit of mystery builds attraction.


There is a difference between being mysterious, and acting like a jerk.

Now you're overdramatizing things. That line may not be your preferred response, and I recognize why, but Shepard's not a jerk in that conversation.

Sorry, but I have no respect for a guy who would tell something like that to Miranda at that particular moment.

Reminder: this is not meant to be taken seriously, and it isn't taken seriously. You make too much of things. For me, this light response, coming right after "I care about you, Miranda", is going a step back, telling her she's free to interpret things as not going too deep if she prefers, but he'd rather have it otherwise (as he said before). It gives her the freedom to make her decision based on how she feels herself, without any influence by Shepard, while the other response builds pressure to accept what he and she feel.


I think we can all agree the line is interpretive. Different people will get different impressions from it.

I mean I've talked to people who took the "I can't promise I won't die" dialogue option as a dirty blackmail to get Miranda to have sex. "We're going to die soon so you have to have sex with me." Yeah, totally not how I took it.

Gotta say though, the line in question struck me as awful. However, it doesn't matter because you don't have to say it. The neutral option is much better. My only beef is that the "I wanna get you into bed" comment is upper right.

#6355
Arijharn

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Here's a flipside argument. Everyone assumes and has reasoned that Miranda hooked up with NoGames411 at some point prior to your romance or prior to the resurrection of Shephard (and I agree) but, purely as a thought experiment what would you think however, as you romanced her, that she did cheat on you? Just go the whole curve ball thought thing and suppose that she did. Assume that she tearfully confessed (even if you think this is terribly OOC). Would that change anything for you? Would you have your Shephard forgive her?



You know what, I wouldn't... I just couldn't. I haven't thankfully been in a situation where my RL partner has cheated on me, but to me the whole idea of it could strike too close to home for me. I would have my Shephard get angry but absolutely emotionally draw away from her, maintaining contact purely for maintaining a sense of professionalism. In short, I'd think: "You know what, I'm saving the galaxy, I am so not going to put up with this crap at the same time."



I just couldn't trust her honestly... and somehow an ultimatum just doesn't seem like it goes far enough.



Feel free to disregard this if this is a too uncomfortable topic, although hopefully I can get some thoughts about this.

#6356
Nightwriter

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I would forgive her.

Part of it's that I'm a woman. For some reason it makes me see it differently.

Part of it's that for some reason that behavior would be easy to understand for me. True feelings are scary for her. I could see her meeting this guy just to reestablish some kind of control. Out of fear.

Part of it's that it's so painfully obvious that she doesn't care about these men and her relationship with Shepard occupies a whole other league of emotion for her.

Part of it's the "you have no idea how much you've changed her" comment, which was just... so awesome. Really, no matter what happened, you're the guy who changed her, and no guy before you can claim the same. So what's the big deal, and what's to feel threatened about? 

Modifié par Nightwriter, 26 septembre 2010 - 08:51 .


#6357
Arijharn

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Hmm, because I can't understand the sentiment that if she loves me how could she sleep with someone else. It just doesn't make sense to me personally, that's why I couldn't forgive her. I mean, doesn't she think about it: "I love Shephard, but I feel so confused, so I better sleep with someone else. Would Shephard mind?"

It's not like I'd go out of my way to sabotage her life out of some pathetic personal vendetta, but I would feel that she doesn't respect me in any way. Does that make sense?

EDIT: I also think there's the whole Ego thing involved as well. I'm supposed to be enough for her, yet she does this?

Modifié par Arijharn, 26 septembre 2010 - 09:04 .


#6358
Caihn

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My opinion is that the idating and infertility dossier were created to hurt Miranda fan base (especially those who romanced her). They probably wanted to make sure some players would leave Miranda for Liara (and I'm sure they succeeded).
They could not do this to Tali because her fan base is very active, and we all know how virulent some Tali fans are.
Miranda was the easy choice, she's already hated by a lot of players, and it's not the few fans who remain on the forum who could do something.

Personally, I prefer to interpret the dossiers my way, and I hope Bioware won't create something worse for Miranda in the next DLCs.

But now I'm very pessimistic, I wouldn't be surprised if they kill Miranda between ME2 and ME3. (but If they do this, I don't think I will buy and play ME3)

#6359
Ieldra

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Arijharn wrote...
Here's a flipside argument. Everyone assumes and has reasoned that Miranda hooked up with NoGames411 at some point prior to your romance or prior to the resurrection of Shephard (and I agree) but, purely as a thought experiment what would you think however, as you romanced her, that she did cheat on you? Just go the whole curve ball thought thing and suppose that she did. Assume that she tearfully confessed (even if you think this is terribly OOC). Would that change anything for you? Would you have your Shephard forgive her?

I tend to take the occasional sexual adventure lightly. I might not exactly like the thought, and I'd certainly would like to know why and expect some "reparation", but in the end it doesn't matter much as long as she's careful about it and doesn't make a long-term emotional connection to that other guy. Note that I'd take the same freedom for myself in principle, though I don't think I'd be much tempted to act on it. No tearful confession, though. That would make me angry because it reeks of dishonesty.

(Don't get me wrong: it *would* hurt. I only think it doesn't matter much in the long run, so I'd rather deal with being hurt and trying to repair the damage. And I don't know if I'd be able to forgive her sleeping with Jacob even if I wanted to - that would hit too close to home)

Modifié par Ieldra2, 26 septembre 2010 - 09:26 .


#6360
Ieldra

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Yannkee wrote...
My opinion is that the idating and infertility dossier were created to hurt Miranda fan base (especially those who romanced her). They probably wanted to make sure some players would leave Miranda for Liara (and I'm sure they succeeded).

If there was any serious thought about it, I think they wanted to "take her down a notch" to make her appear more human, and from what I hear, they did succeed. Many people are much more sympathetic to her and started to think about her more after reading the dossier. Probably they thought her fanbase could deal with it. Well, we can, but we're certainly not leaving this uncommented.

Considering how Liara reacted to Shepard romancing Miranda, I doubt it was a coordinated serious attempt at getting people away from her. Possibly the writer of the dossier hates Miranda, but I don't think it's more than that.

Miranda was the easy choice, she's already hated by a lot of players, and it's not the few fans who remain on the forum who could do something.

I'd say we few fans who remain on the forum are doing quite a lot.

Personally, I prefer to interpret the dossiers my way, and I hope Bioware won't create something worse for Miranda in the next DLCs.

As do we all, I think.

#6361
fongiel24

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Arijharn wrote...

Here's a flipside argument. Everyone assumes and has reasoned that Miranda hooked up with NoGames411 at some point prior to your romance or prior to the resurrection of Shephard (and I agree) but, purely as a thought experiment what would you think however, as you romanced her, that she did cheat on you? Just go the whole curve ball thought thing and suppose that she did. Assume that she tearfully confessed (even if you think this is terribly OOC). Would that change anything for you? Would you have your Shephard forgive her?

You know what, I wouldn't... I just couldn't. I haven't thankfully been in a situation where my RL partner has cheated on me, but to me the whole idea of it could strike too close to home for me. I would have my Shephard get angry but absolutely emotionally draw away from her, maintaining contact purely for maintaining a sense of professionalism. In short, I'd think: "You know what, I'm saving the galaxy, I am so not going to put up with this crap at the same time."


Hmm, this is an interesting hypothetical. I guess my (me being my conception of Shepard) reaction would depend on a number of factors.

First, are we actually exclusive? I don't consider Shepard and Miranda to be an exclusive pairing until the "Don't die on me" conversation. Before that, Shepard and Miranda are really just dipping their toes in the water, figuratively speaking. It might make Shepard uncomfortable that Miranda has communicated an interest in him yet is still sleeping around, but he hardly owns her at this point.

If Miranda's iPartners encounter happens after the "Don't die on me" conversation, things get a little trickier. I don't think Miranda is a virgin (not even close), but she may be inexperienced when it comes to real relationships, even if she's experienced in just casual physical ones. Being drawn into such a close relationship with someone else, where emotions are bared to such a degree and she's so exposed and vulnerable may be something she's not used to. Being involved in a relationship like that could even be quite terrifying for someone like Miranda who's lived so much of her adult life on the run and alone. Her iPartners encounter may be a means of coping with those feelings, a way of trying to sort out her relationship with Shepard by separating the physical.

Another possible interpretation is that Miranda's idea of "exclusive" differs greatly from the conventional idea of "exclusive". Miranda's definition may extend only to emotional attachment. "Open relationships" are difficult and thus probably quite rare, but Miranda may be one of those people who's into them.

As far as whether "my" Shepard would dump her for it, I don't think so. He'd be confused and probably at least a little hurt, but he'd want to talk to her about it before drawing any conclusions. As long as she's not deliberately playing with him, I think he could forgive her. Considering her issues with past betrayals and her lifestyle, I think Shepard could cut her some slack.

Yannkee wrote...

My opinion is that the idating and infertility dossier were created to hurt Miranda fan base (especially
those who romanced her). They probably wanted to make sure some players would leave Miranda for Liara (and I'm sure they succeeded). They could not do this to Tali because her fan base is very active, and we all know how virulent some Tali fans are. Miranda was the easy choice, she's already hated by a lot of players, and it's
not the few fans who remain on the forum who could do something.

Personally, I prefer to interpret the dossiers my way, and I hope Bioware won't create something worse for Miranda in the next DLCs.

But now I'm very pessimistic, I wouldn't be surprised if they kill Miranda between ME2 and ME3. (but If they do this, I don't think I will buy and play ME3)


I think you're being a little paranoid. Bioware doesn't really have a reason to go after any particular fanbase to convert them towards a OTP of Shepard/Liara. They still get your money whether you purchased ME3 with Liara as your LI or Miranda. If anything, I think Bioware and EA would want to keep as many of the LIs "available" in ME3 as possible, just so they can maintain the loyalty (sales, if you're reading between the lines) of all the fanbases.

Keep in mind as well that Miranda is the "cover girl" for ME2. As much as the hardcore fans might love Tali and the other LIs, Miranda is the only female LI to show up on the front of the ME2 box. I realize Ashley was technically a "cover girl" as well, but it seems like Miranda received far more exposure (no pun intended) and face time for ME2 than Ashley did for ME1. As far as her romance and physical appearance go, Miranda's also the most "fan service-ish" and probably appeals to a lot of the casual fans from their main demographic (18-35 yo male gamers).

Modifié par fongiel24, 26 septembre 2010 - 10:36 .


#6362
t3HPrO

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I'd forgive Miranda. If you can't even forgive her, then it's best you leave her. After all, Shepard can't claim to have not cheated on Miranda before the romance started. Who knows what Shep does off camera.

#6363
t3HPrO

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@Yannkee

If bioware kills poor Miri off, I'm gonna go into their office and make some demands. And no, I doubt bioware would be that stupid to kill Miranda off. Sure, they may be downright effin retarded at times, but money makes everyone smart. Judging from the backlash from the poorly written dossier, bioware will most likely be nicer to Miranda in the next get go.

#6364
Arijharn

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t3HPrO wrote...

I'd forgive Miranda. If you can't even forgive her, then it's best you leave her. After all, Shepard can't claim to have not cheated on Miranda before the romance started. Who knows what Shep does off camera.


How does one 'cheat' on someone before the romance has even started? o.0

#6365
GodWood

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Yannkee wrote...
My opinion is that the idating and infertility dossier were created to hurt Miranda fan base (especially those who romanced her). They probably wanted to make sure some players would leave Miranda for Liara (and I'm sure they succeeded).
They could not do this to Tali because her fan base is very active, and we all know how virulent some Tali fans are.
Miranda was the easy choice, she's already hated by a lot of players, and it's not the few fans who remain on the forum who could do something.

Bioware couldn't give a **** about character's fanbases, all their intention was was to add more depth to one of their characters.
You can continue to be in denial or simply accept it as an aspect of her character.

#6366
jtav

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The only reason they'd kill Miranda off between games is if they couldn't get Strahovski back. They're going to milk their celebrity VAs for all their worth, if only in marketing. They don't gain anything by demonizing a particular LI. A fair few people probably did dump Miranda (and Tali and Jack) for Liara because Liara and her romance received some high-quality development. You'll see the same thing if there's a VS DLC, I'm sure. With a few exceptions, the infertility seems to have made people more sympathetic to Miranda, not less. As for the dating service, Miranda is consistently portrayed as someone who is clearly sexually experienced but inexperienced and somewhat petrified when it comes to an actual romance. Which means she's probably had lots of casual sex. The dossier just confirms it.

#6367
snfonseka

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Yannkee wrote...

My opinion is that the idating and infertility dossier were created to hurt Miranda fan base (especially those who romanced her). They probably wanted to make sure some players would leave Miranda for Liara (and I'm sure they succeeded).
They could not do this to Tali because her fan base is very active, and we all know how virulent some Tali fans are.
Miranda was the easy choice, she's already hated by a lot of players, and it's not the few fans who remain on the forum who could do something.

Personally, I prefer to interpret the dossiers my way, and I hope Bioware won't create something worse for Miranda in the next DLCs.

But now I'm very pessimistic, I wouldn't be surprised if they kill Miranda between ME2 and ME3. (but If they do this, I don't think I will buy and play ME3)


I don't think BW will kill Miranda, because they cannot gain anything from doing so. If they don't want to make her a squadmate they will find a reason to do so without killing her. BW doesn't has any benefit by killing her.

[edit]
I don't think BW really consider anything completely based on the players in the forum, because the majority of the players are not bothering about staying active in the forum according to my understanding.

Modifié par snfonseka, 26 septembre 2010 - 02:47 .


#6368
jtav

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I see though, that the double standard is alive and well. A consenting adult who has casual sex is apparently a "deviant." As opposed to Shepard having casual sex with Jack and the Consort. Not to mention TIM's conquests. One of the reasons I like Miranda is that she's a sexually experienced woman who isn't punished for that and doesn't have the heap of trauma to explain it. If you want conventional romance, there's Tali.

#6369
Ieldra

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jtav wrote...
I see though, that the double standard is alive and well. A consenting adult who has casual sex is apparently a "deviant." As opposed to Shepard having casual sex with Jack and the Consort. Not to mention TIM's conquests. One of the reasons I like Miranda is that she's a sexually experienced woman who isn't punished for that and doesn't have the heap of trauma to explain it. If you want conventional romance, there's Tali.

Yes - isn't it annoying? While fortunately, the majority doesn't seem to respect her any less for it, it's quite surprising (maybe it shouldn't be, but it is to me) how big an issue that is for some people.

#6370
Caihn

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I consider Miranda as a sexually experienced woman, but using a idating service for casual encounters during the events of ME2 is completely absurd and ridiculous. Miranda would not waste time with this, while she and Shepard's team are fighting collectors, and are trying to save human colonists.

But I completely understand she could do this during the 2 years when she was working on the lazarus project.

I also still believe she used this encounters to try to get pregnant, because of the health selectiveness.



At all case, I think the dossiers are poorly written. And those who wrote Miranda's dossiers probably don't like the character.

#6371
jtav

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SR2 aside, I'm inclined to believe the chats mostly took place before ME2 proper because of their order. The last one is on Omega, which is the first hub you visit. So she met up with this guy either very early in the game or before it. I'm also stubbornly clinging to the theory that she wasn't trying to get pregnant.

#6372
jtav

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I've been looking at the numbers for the latest character poll. Miranda seems to be in the middle of the pack in terms of overall character but polls near the bottom in terms of romance. I'm not sure what to make of that. I rank her as either my favorite or second favorite character, but fifth or sixth in romance.

#6373
Pacifien

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jtav wrote...
I've been looking at the numbers for the latest character poll. Miranda seems to be in the middle of the pack in terms of overall character but polls near the bottom in terms of romance. I'm not sure what to make of that. I rank her as either my favorite or second favorite character, but fifth or sixth in romance.

I have my own analysis of the results, using a smaller sample size than XX55XX ultimately ended up using. Miranda comes after Tali and Liara as a love interests for guys, though I'm not at all surprised by that. She's dead last in the eyes of the girls voting on love interests. For people picking their favorite character, she seems to be more popular. She's middle of the pack in regards to the 1-10 scale.

#6374
jtav

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The funny thing is that I'm female and her romance is my "favorite" for MaleShep in ME2 in the sense that it drives me the least crazy because the power imbalance is smaller. I suppose I really am an outlier.

#6375
Caihn

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It's an good result, considering that a lot of her fans left the forum.

Modifié par Yannkee, 26 septembre 2010 - 04:45 .